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[grandjedi6]

When I read that scene I would have bet cold hard cash then and there that it was going to be in the show. I thought it was just too incredibly well done to not be in there, and if executed right would have easily been one of the GOAT scenes everyone remembers after the show is long over.

Instead, we got Dorne and a bunch of other nonsense. I don't buy an argument that doing some minimal buildup to lead up to that scene would have been a distraction or taken away from the streamlined nature of the show. They don't even have to do the Mance stuff, Ghost in Winterfell still works without all that. Take half of the Dorne scenes and replace them with Wyman Manderly and the northern conspiracy, and you're good to go.

The Northern conspiracy and ghost of Winterfell would've been amazing but it would have also messed with whatever they are trying to do with this Littlefinger plot.

Speaking of which, what the hell is Littlefinger gonna do? He's probably in his weakest position in a long time and it's all his doing. He doesn't really have many people to manipulate anymore. Cersei is onto his bullshit and is probably in the mood to roast anyone who comes by anyway. Dany's surrounded herself with too many people who are onto him too (Tyrion, Varys, Olenna, Theon). I guess he could team up with Euron but we all know how well the last few Greyjoy invasions went. Which leaves him with only Sansa to manipulate: who is onto his bullshit but also kinda stupid. He obviously wants to dispose of Jon but if he doesn't do it in the right way, he'll just piss off the North and Sansa. So he'll need to either convince Sansa to betray Jon for him while also disposing of Jon in a way that puts Sansa in charge, or he'll need to put Jon out of commission but still alive so that he can put Sansa in charge and use Jon's life as a manipulation tool... which would still piss off Sansa.

Littlefinger has managed to put all his eggs in the Sansa basket. For Mr Chaos is a Ladder, he sure has climb himself into a corner.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

So people are saying/thinking Rhaegor is Jon's father but there is another option. Robert Baratheon.

Robert was deeply in love with Lyanna, he made no secret of that.

Now if we go back to season 1 when Ned was figuring out who's Cersei's childrens father was it came down to hair.

Baratheons have black hair.
Lannisters and Targaryens have blonde hair.
Starks have brown hair.

Jon has black hair.

Maybe Jon is a red herring?

Man, they really did do a shit job explaining it... Robert was more in love with the idea of Lyanna than Lyanna herself I think and not "having" her lead to Bobby B creating this idealized version of her in his head that he placed on a pedestal, the feelings weren't mutual. Besides, Lyanna and Rhaegar were together for like a year if not a bit more.

Which ones have black hair?

As mentioned, Jon's hair is actually supposed to be brown, specifically dark brown is the general Stark hair color, Kit Harrington's hair is actually dark brown as well, just the show's lighting doesn't really show it. Rhaegar's wife Elia was Dornish and had dark hair as well, Targaryen features are recessive, Rhaegar's daughter took after her mother and yeah there's been a number of dark haired Targs in history. Hell, Robert and his brothers have a Targaryen grandmother.

 

[XAL]

So people are saying/thinking Rhaegor is Jon's father but there is another option. Robert Baratheon.

Robert was deeply in love with Lyanna, he made no secret of that.

Now if we go back to season 1 when Ned was figuring out who's Cersei's childrens father was it came down to hair.

Baratheons have black hair.
Lannisters and Targaryens have blonde hair.
Starks have brown hair.

Jon has black hair.

Maybe Jon is a red herring?

No. Completely wrong.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Same Miguel Sapochnik is not back for the next season after his tripple whammy Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter. Perhaps they're saving him for the final season.

 

[jerry113]

Same Miguel Sapochnik is not back for the next season after his tripple whammy Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter. Perhaps they're saving him for the final season.

In my mind I like to fantasize that he's been hired to do a prequel movie for Robert's Rebellion.

With the last two episodes he's shown he can handle both the epic and the intimate.

That time period is just ripe to be made as a tragic love story / war epic (think helen of troy), featuring Lyanna & Rhaegar and a lot of young incarnations of Ned, Robert, Catelyn, and appearances by Elia, Petyr Baelish, Ser Barristan, Jaime, the list goes on... Lots of cool stuff to work with. The problem is that we've already seen the ending (Tower of Joy) in the main series.

 

[Turin]

Yeah. I'm a bit bummed at no Miguel for S7.

They should definitely try to get him in for the last 2 in S8.

 

[duckroll]

Alex Graves directed like 4 episodes in one of the seasons iirc. So did Alan Taylor I think. Imagine if they cut a deal for Sapochnik to do the last 6. With a delayed release from April to November or something.

 

[Turin]

Alex Graves directed like 4 episodes in one of the seasons iirc. So did Alan Taylor I think. Imagine if they cut a deal for Sapochnik to do the last 6. With a delayed release from April to November or something.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Finally seen the final of S6, damn what an episode. I can't help but wish for Cersei to meet some really hard death, come on Jaime, add Queenslayer to your title-pool.

Also, i can't imagine how Westeros/the North are going to defend against Dany and her army, moreso if it's backed up by the remaining Tyrell forces and Dorne. I think the Vale is the only army not yet decimated by the war, that's not on Dany's side.

Going to be interesting to see what Deus Ex happens to make the coming war not a short and one-sided pounding.

 

[jdstorm]

Finally seen the final of S6, damn what an episode. I can't help but wish for Cersei to meet some really hard death, come on Jaime, add Queenslayer to your title-pool.

Also, i can't imagine how Westeros/the North are going to defend against Dany and her army, moreso if it's backed up by the remaining Tyrell forces and Dorne. I think the Vale is the only army not yet decimated by the war, that's not on Dany's side.

Going to be interesting to see what Deus Ex happens to make the coming war not a short and one-sided pounding.

Neither Jon or Sansa want the iron throne so they won't need to fight Dany.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Neither Jon or Sansa want the iron throne so they won't need to fight Dany.

Well ok, but will Dany leave the Vale, and the entire North in the hands of another king, that of now could even have a more legit claim to the Iron Throne?

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Well ok, but will Dany leave the Vale, and the entire North in the hands of another king, that of now could even have a more legit claim to the Iron Throne?

Theyre going to get married.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Theyre going to get married.

Hope that this won't happen, completely kills any hype for the story. Also completely goes against that running gag with Starks marrying/mating with people they're not supposed to do so. And finally, there's no better way of showing Westeros that Dany is indeed as fucked up as her father (which i totally believe she is) than invading, burning shit with Dragonfire and marrying relatives. (Also Jon is still "just" a bastard!) ^^

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Hope that this won't happen, completely kills any hype for the story. Also completely goes against that running gag with Starks marrying/mating with people they're not supposed to do so. And finally, there's no better way of showing Westeros that Dany is indeed as fucked up as her father (which i totally believe she is) than invading, burning shit with Dragonfire and marrying relatives. (Also Jon is still "just" a bastard!) ^^

Show showed this season that Danny can listen to reason. With Tyrion and Varys by her side she may not go crazy.

 

[grandjedi6]

Hope that this won't happen, completely kills any hype for the story. Also completely goes against that running gag with Starks marrying/mating with people they're not supposed to do so. And finally, there's no better way of showing Westeros that Dany is indeed as fucked up as her father (which i totally believe she is) than invading, burning shit with Dragonfire and marrying relatives. (Also Jon is still "just" a bastard!) ^^

Dany said last episode that she needs to marry someone to forge powerful alliances. Jon is literally the only eligible bachelor left in Westeros. The show's totally going the Dany-Jon marry route.

 

[Sheroking]

Show showed this season that Danny can listen to reason. With Tyrion and Varys by her side she may not go crazy.

"May not?" Will not.

At this point, you have to be delusional to think the show is positioning her as a villain. And honestly, I don't even see it in the books either.

 

[KahooTs]

Dany said last episode that she needs to marry someone to forge powerful alliances. Jon is literally the only eligible bachelor left in Westeros. The show's totally going the Dany-Jon marry route.

LF's pawn, Robert Arryn.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Dany said last episode that she needs to marry someone to forge powerful alliances. Jon is literally the only eligible bachelor left in Westeros. The show's totally going the Dany-Jon marry route.

The whole King in the North set up would have literally no impact if Jon just happily marries his aunt, also goes against the believes of the 7 and the old gods, even the Wildlings shun it. And i'm not sure wether it's ok with the believers of the red god. I have a hard time believing that everyone in Westeros would just come to terms with yet another Targaryen incest marriage.

Plus, everytime the show showed incest, it's connected to being bad, Cersei/Jaime playing a big part why Westeros is a f*cked up as it is, Targaryen madness (which btw. doesn't hit until later in a Targ's life), Craster and his "sacrifices".

Finally, there's the issue of a heir. As pointed out, incest is bad, and even if it wasn't, Dany can't have any children. And Starks are not really the world's biggest makers of bastards, so there would be a royal pair without any children, or (unlikely) only bastard children.

TL/DR: I have my doubts about Jon/Dany, it has too many problematic connections. I find it more believable (still unlikely) that Westeros will be seperated and both mind their own business. ^^

"May not?" Will not.

At this point, you have to be delusional to think the show is positioning her as a villain. And honestly, I don't even see it in the books either.

Dunno, what are her redeeming points? Varys is a scheming egoist, the Dothraki are shown as ruthless and brutal raiders ok with slavery, the Unsullied are "mindless" soldiers who do whatever told by their master, the Ironborn too are brutal and ruthless raiders (with Euron only being worse than the bad rest), the Sandsnakes are scheming killers and the Queen of Thorns is a scheming mastermind with only lust for revenge left in her life. Daario, while being left behind, is also nothing more than a merc that does what's best for him.

Her only postive traits are her wish for more equity, quitting slavery. The only "good" advisors she has are Tyrion, Greyworm and Missandei, as Mormont is out of the game for the time being. And only Tyrion can offer some helpful advice for the coming things.

 

[Blue Ninja]

So people are saying/thinking Rhaegor is Jon's father but there is another option. Robert Baratheon.

Robert was deeply in love with Lyanna, he made no secret of that.

Now if we go back to season 1 when Ned was figuring out who's Cersei's childrens father was it came down to hair.

Baratheons have black hair.
Lannisters and Targaryens have blonde hair.
Starks have brown hair.

Jon has black hair.

Maybe Jon is a red herring?

Nope.

 

[Corpekata]

Nobody actually knows Dany is his aunt yet so dismissing the plotline because of that doesn't make a lot of sense.

That being said I don't think they'll actually marry, but I do think the intention to find someone for marriage will at the very least cause them to meet.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Nobody actually knows Dany yet is his aunt so dismissing the plotline because of that doesn't make a lot of sense.

That being said I don't think they'll actually marry, but I do think the intention to find someone for marriage will at the very least cause them to meet.

Yeah, that's right. But Bran's already back at the wall, and if he needs a Weirwood tree for his skills to work, the one in Winterfell is the safest and nearest, so it's not too far off to think that he will return to Winterfell next season.

If it weren't for the Kingslayer thing, i could also see Jaime as a possible partner, with Kevan and Tywin dead, he should be the rightful lord of house Lannister. He's also out of the Kingsguard, guess the rules don't apply for him anyomre.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Yeah, that's right. But Bran's already back at the wall, and if he needs a Weirwood tree for his skills to work, the one in Winterfell is the safest and nearest, so it's not too far off to think that he will return to Winterfell next season.

If it weren't for the Kingslayer thing, i could also see Jaime as a possible partner, with Kevan and Tywin dead, he should be the rightful lord of house Lannister. He's also out of the Kingsguard, guess the rules don't apply for him anyomre.

Except him turning down Cerseis queensguard and then insisting he's lord of casterly rock in contention with Tyrion is fucking stupid.

Although it would get them to the same point in the books with them all hating each other, Daenerys wouldn't marry the guy who killed her dad and accept him as Lord of House Lannister over Tyrion anyway.

 

[wesleyshark]

So people are saying/thinking Rhaegor is Jon's father but there is another option. Robert Baratheon.

Robert was deeply in love with Lyanna, he made no secret of that.

Now if we go back to season 1 when Ned was figuring out who's Cersei's childrens father was it came down to hair.

Baratheons have black hair.
Lannisters and Targaryens have blonde hair.
Starks have brown hair.

Jon has black hair.

Maybe Jon is a red herring?

 

[Sheroking]

Dunno, what are her redeeming points? Varys is a scheming egoist, the Dothraki are shown as ruthless and brutal raiders ok with slavery, the Unsullied are "mindless" soldiers who do whatever told by their master, the Ironborn too are brutal and ruthless raiders (with Euron only being worse than the bad rest), the Sandsnakes are scheming killers and the Queen of Thorns is a scheming mastermind with only lust for revenge left in her life. Daario, while being left behind, is also nothing more than a merc that does what's best for him.

She's an abolitionist who has been willing to compromise and share power. She has only ever raised violence against oppressors who would not surrender. The worst thing she ever did was crucify slave masters - and that was a brutal, emotional response to those slave masters doing the same to slaves and the children of slaves. We've never seen anything like it from her since.

Varys is a schemer and a spy, but his motivation is entirely about seeing a better class of Queen for the little people of Westeros. A condition of the Dothraki and Ironborn serving her is abandoning their reaving and pillaging ways - she even made it a condition of her partnership with Yara.

From a writers perspective, there's no room to position her as anything other a liberator in Westeros. They have 13 episodes left, and the last few are almost certainly going to focus on the realms mutual enemy. In that time, she has to interact with Euron, Cersei and Jon. It's pretty hard to swiftly change her character arc AND hit all of the goal obvious goal posts in that time.

Now, the books are maybe a little different. It will be more narratively muddled and morally complex than the show. I don't think we'll see Danaerys go insane or be positioned as an antagonist to the realm or the North, though. He doesn't seem to be moving in that direction. I think this idea comes from people who don't like the character, and don't particularly love the more likely outcome and are projecting.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Except him turning down Cerseis queensguard and then insisting he's lord of casterly rock in contention with Tyrion is fucking stupid.

Although it would get them to the same point in the books with them all hating each other, Daenerys wouldn't marry the guy who killed her dad and accept him as Lord of House Lannister over Tyrion anyway.

I think the look Jaime gave Cersei in the S6 final made it obvious that there's going to be a break-up between the two. While we don't know if he already knew about his son's suicide being the fault of Cersei's insane actions, that should finally turn the tide, imo.

Doesn't matter if she accepts him as the Lord, Jaime is afaik the Lord of Casterly Rock. First born son and leader of the troops vs. second son who also killed his father and Lord. If Dany doesn't completely wipe out the Lannisters, appointing Tyrion as Lord of Casterly Rock would only lead to problems.

I'll answer the question with another question: What are her worst qualities?

She's an abolitionist who has been willing to compromise and share power. She has only ever raised violence against oppressors who would not surrender. The worst thing she ever did was crucify slave masters - and that was a brutal, emotional response to those same slave masters doing the same to slaves and the children of slaves.

Varys is a schemer and a spy, but his motivation is entirely about seeing a better class of Queen for the little people of Westeros. A condition of the Dothraki and Ironborn serving her is abandoning their reaving and pillaging ways - she even made it a condition of her partnership with Yara.

From a writers perspective, there's no room to position her as anything other a liberator in Westeros. They have 13 episodes left, and the last few are almost certainly going to focus on the realms mutual enemy. In that time, she has to interact with Euron, Cersei and Jon.

Sharing power? First time i heared that, it's pretty clear that she wants to be queen and ruler, and not share it with someone. Her ideals work in the eastern part of the world, but there's no slavery in the seven kingdoms, also i bet that the Dornish and the Queen of Thorns would love the idea of losing some or all of their lordly benefits.

Varys is just as bad as Littlefinger. If he wanted a fair and true ruler for Westeros, he could've aided Ned Stark to appoint Stannis, could've rid the kingdoms of Cersei, her children and Littlefinger or could've just made sure that Robert wasn't killed, as life was pretty ok for everyone under Robert's rule. As for the Ironborn, iirc, she only told Yara to keep off from raiding the seven kingdoms, nothing more, Yara would lose all support to Euron if she told the Ironborn to get rid of their way of life. I'll give you the Dothraki, but you think that they won't return to old habits once Dany is gone or even if she somehow loses the dragons?

The writers have a perfectly valid liberator already, Jon. He even has that Messiah theme going now with his resurrection. The only unkown factor right now is how everyone is going to react once his heritage will come to light.

 

[Kozak]

You can only see Dany as rhe bad guy if you go out of your way to do so..

Show and Books have set her up as the good guy who needs guidance.

The bad guys might try to portray her as the bad guy. Thats usually what bad guys do.

 

[wesleyshark]

You can only see Dany as rhe bad guy if you go out of your way to do so..

Show and Books have set her up as the good guy who needs guidance.

The bad guys might try to portray her as the bad guy. Thats usually what bad guys do.

She could go either way. It's easy to empathize with her, as we're inside her head in the books. But if you were to take away her POV and only see her through other character's eyes, it would present how she'll appear to some people when she arrives in Westeros. She's a hero to some, a villain to others. She is on a very thin line, and madness is only but a few decisions away... Whether she'll embrace that madness or not remains to be seen... It's just that the potential is most certainly there.

 

[dubq]

So people are saying/thinking Rhaegor is Jon's father but there is another option. Robert Baratheon.

Robert was deeply in love with Lyanna, he made no secret of that.

Now if we go back to season 1 when Ned was figuring out who's Cersei's childrens father was it came down to hair.

Baratheons have black hair.
Lannisters and Targaryens have blonde hair.
Starks have brown hair.

Jon has black hair.

Maybe Jon is a red herring?

Why are people having so much trouble with this?

Rhaegar is Jon's father. Albeit confusingly laid out, HBO confirmed it in that family tree they posted. Parental lines from Jon Snow to both Lyanna and Rhaegar.

Also, one of the first interviews that D&D gave was about a meeting where GRRM asked them who they though Jon Snow's parents were and they guessed correctly (like the rest of us). Based on that info, the family tree graphic and the really obvious scene in the Tower of Joy, c'mon. It's Rhaegar.

 

[mantidor]

If Bran knows about the Rat Cook story then it's likely that Arya does as well. Do you actually believe that it's a coincidence that she actually gave the Rat Cook punishment to someone who broke guest right?

Bran narrates the story at S3E10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV5txCNDco0

If she didn't know or care about the Rat Cook story, she would just kill him the same way she killed Trant.

The rat's cook punishment is actually to be turned into a rat that is always starving and can only eat its own babies. What Arya did is actually what the rat cook did to deserve such punishment, the only difference is that she wasn't a guest I guess.

So of course she knew, that's why I'm saying she was inspired by the tales, but she isn't doing this to honor any god at all, she did it because it's gruesome.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yeah in the books, the Great Northern Conspiracy shows that the North Remembers. In the show, the Great Northern Shame shows that the North Forgot and had to be Reminded by a 10 year old girl. The contrast in tone and theme is really something. Credit to the show for making lemonade out of lemons though, without Lady Mormont, the entire Northern arc would be so much worse.

That is still one of my favorite scenes of the season, but boy, it sure makes the northerners (outside of House Mormont, of course) look like a bunch of wishy-washy spineless dopes...which makes the Book Reader in me shed a tear.

When I read that scene I would have bet cold hard cash then and there that it was going to be in the show. I thought it was just too incredibly well done to not be in there, and if executed right would have easily been one of the GOAT scenes everyone remembers after the show is long over.

Instead, we got Dorne and a bunch of other nonsense. I don't buy an argument that doing some minimal buildup to lead up to that scene would have been a distraction or taken away from the streamlined nature of the show. They don't even have to do the Mance stuff, Ghost in Winterfell still works without all that. Take half of the Dorne scenes and replace them with Wyman Manderly and the northern conspiracy, and you're good to go.

Yup, bingo. It's such an amazing series of clues and slow buildup, leading to a fantastic payoff.

They could have easily done it this season.

• Show the fallout of Stannis's death. Ramsay calls a meeting, or even just gathers the House leaders and give them the choice of bowing to him or being destroyed by his growing forces. Have the conversation end with a sort of vague conclusion, someone saying, "To me, there is only one option" or something similar. Next scene shows them bending knee to Bolton
• Of course, Lyanna Mormont's response would be the "Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK." It would be great to see the moment he either receives this letter from her or hears it from her in person, as he's kind of bewildered at the statement
• When Jon/Sansa finally go around to try and get support from Northerners, almost all of them decline, simply because they are too far in their plotting and too many things are set in motion. If they pull out of backing Ramsay and defy him outright, there could be consequences--maybe Ramsay has taken on a number of their family/children as stewards, for insurance. Lyanna is fine with joining up with Jon because, after all, she has ~60 men and wouldn't make a difference, either way. Perhaps, in ONE meeting, after denying Jon/Sansa, "the North remembers" is brought up (either as a plea from Jon/Sansa or as an attempt at a hint of their plot from the North) but is stomped into the ground, since all Jon/Sansa are perceiving is that none of the Northerners are supporting them
• Some theories think the Tullys/Riverlands are involved. When Jaime arrives at Riverrun, he could remark how odd it is that the Stark banner is also present on the keep, in addition to Tully banners; maybe they could try and show that some Tully men take the Black and secretly provide updates on Jon's status to Riverrun. Could even make it so one of the Watch finds a Tully man trying to send a message back to Riverrun and they're thought to be spies for Ramsay, thus further obfuscating the truth from the audience
• Shit, if they wanted to, they could run with the idea that Ramsay, at some point, DOES find out about the will and that accelerates his plan to lure Jon out with Rickon (which obviously worked).
• Then, of course, the wedding, which could easily be replaced by a hall festival or party or something. I think the songs make more sense in the books, as it's hard to catch lyrics when watching a show for the first time, so maybe have someone note the strange song selection

The only things I can't reconcile are why the Northerners wouldn't tell Jon immediately (in the book, they worry about Stannis finding out and turning on Jon). Maybe they hear about an attempt on Jon's life and don't trust the truth in the hands of the Watch?

They still could have worked Arya into it, too. Just cut her Faceless Men time this season in half and have her head back to Westeros earlier. Depending on where she docks, if she was south/middle Westeros, maybe she heads for Riverrun first and is told there. If not, maybe as she is traveling north, she happens to run into a Northern lord and recognizes him/her (Lyanna Mormont meeting Arya would be great).

Man, even thought Lyanna was a fantastic character in Season 6, having her be an integral part of the conspiracy would have catapulted her to god tier in the show.

 

[SpaceWolf]

So...I just found out that many years ago, Carice van Houten was in a family film where she played a cat who got transformed into a human woman on account of getting covered by radioactive waste.

I feel like this is the most significant human discovery since the invention of the wheel.

 

[c0de]

Also, i can't imagine how Westeros/the North are going to defend against Dany and her army, moreso if it's backed up by the remaining Tyrell forces and Dorne. I think the Vale is the only army not yet decimated by the war, that's not on Dany's side.

She will meet the iron born before she arrives, decimating her army.

 

[Black_Sun]

I think the look Jaime gave Cersei in the S6 final made it obvious that there's going to be a break-up between the two. While we don't know if he already knew about his son's suicide being the fault of Cersei's insane actions, that should finally turn the tide, imo.

Doesn't matter if she accepts him as the Lord, Jaime is afaik the Lord of Casterly Rock. First born son and leader of the troops vs. second son who also killed his father and Lord. If Dany doesn't completely wipe out the Lannisters, appointing Tyrion as Lord of Casterly Rock would only lead to problems.


Sharing power? First time i heared that, it's pretty clear that she wants to be queen and ruler, and not share it with someone. Her ideals work in the eastern part of the world, but there's no slavery in the seven kingdoms, also i bet that the Dornish and the Queen of Thorns would love the idea of losing some or all of their lordly benefits.

Varys is just as bad as Littlefinger. If he wanted a fair and true ruler for Westeros, he could've aided Ned Stark to appoint Stannis, could've rid the kingdoms of Cersei, her children and Littlefinger or could've just made sure that Robert wasn't killed, as life was pretty ok for everyone under Robert's rule. As for the Ironborn, iirc, she only told Yara to keep off from raiding the seven kingdoms, nothing more, Yara would lose all support to Euron if she told the Ironborn to get rid of their way of life. I'll give you the Dothraki, but you think that they won't return to old habits once Dany is gone or even if she somehow loses the dragons?

The writers have a perfectly valid liberator already, Jon. He even has that Messiah theme going now with his resurrection. The only unkown factor right now is how everyone is going to react once his heritage will come to light.

They've been calling him Ser Jaime still. He's not the Lord of Casterly Rock.

 

[Lonestar]

The rat's cook punishment is actually to be turned into a rat that is always starving and can only eat its own babies. What Arya did is actually what the rat cook did to deserve such punishment, the only difference is that she wasn't a guest I guess.

So of course she knew, that's why I'm saying she was inspired by the tales, but she isn't doing this to honor any god at all, she did it because it's gruesome.

Rat Cook becomes a Rat, because he was hosting the king he was targeting (King and Sons visited the Night Watch), not because he fed people to people. He broke Guest Rights. Arya wasn't hosting Walder. She was just straight up assassinating him. She wasn't invited in, at least not as Arya Stark.

 

[dubq]

They've been calling him Ser Jaime still. He's not the Lord of Casterly Rock.

Is he still the LC of the Kingsguard? I can't even remember..

 

[Freshmaker]

They've been calling him Ser Jaime still. He's not the Lord of Casterly Rock.

He hasn't claimed it to this point because Ser Kevan was Lord of Casterly Rock. Right now, there's no reason for Jaime not to claim it.

 

[Lonestar]

Is he still the LC of the Kingsguard? I can't even remember..

Tommen kicked him out, now that there was precedent to remove Kingsguard (Barristan Selmy)

 

[pablito]

If this has been talked about, apologies.

So Robb was going to legitimize Jon in the books. Only Kings can do that, yes? Robb wasn't the king, but he was king in the north. Now Jon is. If Robb legitimizing Jon would have been excepted, then I can see Jon just...being legit now. No need for papers or any of that. He's the "king" now.

 

[dubq]

If this has been talked about, apologies.

So Robb was going to legitimize Jon in the books. Only Kings can do that, yes? Robb wasn't the king, but he was king in the north. Now Jon is. If Robb legitimizing Jon would have been excepted, then I can see Jon just...being legit now. No need for papers or any of that. He's the "king" now.

I would think so. If someone is crowned king by his people then I'd imagine he can just start using the Stark name since he's basically legitimized by the fact that he's now a king.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

As long as Jon doesn't start hyphenating his name

Jon Targaryen-Stark

The woooorst

 

[Freshmaker]

If this has been talked about, apologies.

So Robb was going to legitimize Jon in the books. Only Kings can do that, yes? Robb wasn't the king, but he was king in the north. Now Jon is. If Robb legitimizing Jon would have been excepted, then I can see Jon just...being legit now. No need for papers or any of that. He's the "king" now.

I don't see Jon ever doing that on his own tho.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

As long as Jon doesn't start hyphenating his name

Jon Targaryen-Stark

The woooorst

Jon Starkaryen.

 

[Gigglepoo]

1) Bran and Meera know the Three-Eyed Raven's Cave was protected by magic
2) Bran and Meera know that Bran has been marked by the Night King
3) Bran and Meera know that mark dissolved the magic
4) Benjen told Bran and Meera that The Wall has magic that protects it from the White Walkers.

If Bran and Meera willing walk past The Wall and destroy its magic that's going to be incredibly stupid, especially if they're somehow surprised by this happening. Also, why didn't Benjen mention this before leaving them a mile north of The Wall (with no horse!)?

 

[pablito]

I don't see Jon ever doing that on his own tho.

Yeah. I can see him accepting the name, but not taking it.

 

[wesleyshark]

/dead

 

[hendersonhank]

You can only see Dany as rhe bad guy if you go out of your way to do so..

Show and Books have set her up as the good guy who needs guidance.

The bad guys might try to portray her as the bad guy. Thats usually what bad guys do.

She is hellbent on conquering a country she's never set foot in, bringing raping barbarians, raping pirates, and literal monsters to help her do it, just because she insists it belongs to her. She is not going as some savior. She doesn't know a damn thing about Westeros, its people, or its problems.

 

[Gigglepoo]

She is hellbent on conquering a country she's never set foot in, bringing raping barbarians, raping pirates, and literal monsters to help her do it, just because she insists it belongs to her. She is not going as some savior. She doesn't know a damn thing about Westeros, its people, or its problems.

She knows more about Westeros' problems than anyone (if those problems are raping barbarians and fire-breathing dragons).

 

[Anton Sugar]

She is hellbent on conquering a country she's never set foot in, bringing raping barbarians, raping pirates, and literal monsters to help her do it, just because she insists it belongs to her. She is not going as some savior. She doesn't know a damn thing about Westeros, its people, or its problems.

But Dany has positive/"good" virtues (particularly when it comes to fairness and freedom). The show has gone out of its way to show that poor, disenfranchised people loooooove Dany for these reasons and that evil slavers, rapists, etc. hate her. Honestly, this is why I don't by the "Dany is a villain" angle.

I don't disagree that she will probably look like an alien invading force to anyone in Westeros, but something significant will have to "turn" her if she is going to be an actual villain.

 

[Iksenpets]

But Dany has positive/"good" virtues (particularly when it comes to fairness and freedom). The show has gone out of its way to show that poor, disenfranchised people loooooove Dany for these reasons and that evil slavers, rapists, etc. hate her. Honestly, this is why I don't by the "Dany is a villain" angle.

I don't disagree that she will probably look like an alien invading force to anyone in Westeros, but something significant will have to "turn" her if she is going to be an actual villain.

I think we probably lost most of the edge off of a foreign invader plot when Olenna declared for Dany. Without her, yeah, you could pitch this as an invasion by a Dothraki horde, a mindless slave army, sellswords, Greyjoy pirates, and Dornish poisoners. But having the largest and most central Westerosi region backing you takes away a lot of that. In the book you have the Aegon factor that could push Dany into attacking Dorne and the Reach and alienating people, but in the show it'll just be Cersei she's attacking, and no one will be too pissed off about that. The only real issue (barring whatever will happen between Dany and Euron eventually) will be Dany most likely refusing the notion of Northern independence, and whatever conflict may come from that.

 

[hendersonhank]

But Dany has positive/"good" virtues (particularly when it comes to fairness and freedom). The show has gone out of its way to show that poor, disenfranchised people loooooove Dany for these reasons and that evil slavers, rapists, etc. hate her. Honestly, this is why I don't by the "Dany is a villain" angle.

I don't disagree that she will probably look like an alien invading force to anyone in Westeros, but something significant will have to "turn" her if she is going to be an actual villain.

I wouldn't find it at all surprising if GRRM, in his desire to not take the standard route, does have Dany despite all her good intentions, turn out to not be a positive force. She is, after all, leaving hundreds of thousands of dead people in her wake in her obsessive quest to be the ruler of a country she's never seen.