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[Speevy]

i still don't know why lancel decided to follow some random kid in the sewers when he was sent to get cersei.

Because you had to think that just like Margaery's telepathy, they were *this* close to averting catastrophe.

Cersei could have chosen virtually any other time to blow up the sept and probably kill the high sparrow as well his core leadership, accomplishing her goals and even killing Margaery in the process if she wanted to.

 

[bitbydeath]

she's been through a lot though, man. she was forced to watch her father lose her head, then she was forced to look her father's and septa's severed heads, then she was almost raped in the streets, then she was forced to marry a man 30+ years older than her, then she has to hear the news of her brother and mother getting killed, then she was raped by the man whose father killed her brother.

her childhood was scarring as fuck.

She has been through a lot but I still expect her to grow up and learn a thing or two from everything going on around her.

 

[The Artisan]

She has been through a lot but I still expect her to grow up and learn a thing or two from everything going on around her.

I agree with you there, but just like Theon, she has not had a proper means of counseling or winding down after everything she's been through. For so long she's felt like a prisoner. Maybe she'll lighten up a little more after some more reunions.

 

[FStubbs]

I'm not convinced she will. I think they'll keep her as the "constant thorn in their side while they worry about the bigger threat."
But maybe that's the Cersei-fan side of me coming out
;-)

That's Littlefinger.

 

[bitbydeath]

I agree with you there, but just like Theon, she has not had a proper means of counseling or winding down after everything she's been through. For so long she's felt like a prisoner. Maybe she'll lighten up a little more after some more reunions.

Hopefully, otherwise Arya will need to put her back in her place.

 

[Starphanluke]

That's Littlefinger.

Nah, Littlefinger's been pushing his luck with Sansa for too long now. I think he's a gonner soon.

 

[Speevy]

I want to see this scene.


Sansa disagrees with a northern lord and Arya just slits his throat, then starts casually taking his face off.

Sansa's like "You're SPOILING EVERYTHING AGAIN!"

 

[FStubbs]

The way she said "bend the knee" with that attitude made it sound like in her voice, that he doesn't deserve to be king; with knowing barely anything about him, except for the good things she literally just heard about them. Before she sailed for Westeros she also knew she had to make allies; demanding respect from high lords isn't the best way to start friendships and make allies.

Danaerys might end up being the anti-villain of the series.

 

[The Artisan]

Hopefully, otherwise Arya will need to put her back in her place.

Her and Bran both. Bran knows a lot, a lot, a lot...

Danaerys might end up being the anti-villain of the series.

what's an anti-villain? never heard of that before, might be interesting. an anti-hero the way i understand it is a character without the best principle or morals, who ends up going out of their way to do the right thing.

my guess is an anti-villain being more of the tragic hero type?

 

[Sean C]

People hating on Dany but what about Sansa?
She was begging Jon not to go until he said she will be left in charge, I hope Arya lays the smackdown on her when she arrives.

She was visibly surprised/happy that he trusted her with that.

 

[bitbydeath]

She was visibly surprised/happy that he trusted her with that.

I expected as he was leaving to look over his shoulder at Sansa and find she had managed to set Winterfell on fire.

 

[Gigglepoo]

...Still waiting for that "Jon died but he was resurrected" payoff, though. Or was that just a plot device for a. a good cliffhanger and b. a reason for him to leave the Watch?

It really seems like they killed a character and brought him back to life for no other reason than so Jon could leave the Watch. There are no consequences to his resurrection (either internal or external) and he hasn't even talked about it. Super weird decision. And that's not even getting into why Davos cared about Jon or why Davos ignored his hatred of black magic to team up with Mel so she could raise him from the dead.

And he never even asked her if they could resurrect Shareen, Stanis, or his son. He just wanted Jon back and then resumed hating Mel and black magic.

 

[Speevy]

She was visibly surprised/happy that he trusted her with that.

Probably more surprised that he's the first person who hasn't tried to marry her off.

 

[Gnome]

I want to see this scene.


Sansa disagrees with a northern lord and Arya just slits his throat, then starts casually taking his face off.

Sansa's like "You're SPOILING EVERYTHING AGAIN!"

Then she takes her face off and she's Roose Bolton! Vampire Roose confirmed.

 

[The Artisan]

It really seems like they killed a character and brought him back to life for no other reason than so Jon could leave the Watch. There are no consequences to his resurrection (either internal or external) and he hasn't even talked about it. Super weird decision. And that's not even getting into why Davos cared about Jon or why Davos ignored his hatred of black magic to team up with Mel so she could raise him from the dead.

And he never even asked her if they could resurrect Shareen, Stanis, or his son. He just wanted Jon back and then resumed hating Mel and black magic.

He resumed hating the shit out of her after he found the toy stag he made for Shireen on what appeared to be a grave.

Also, you have a point of how Davos suddenly started putting his faith in Jon, but perhaps Davos is pragmatic; he had to adapt to the things going on, he saw and understood that Stannis thought highly of Jon and from the time he spent with him, could tell that he's a man worth fighting with and for.

 

[Speevy]

So does Melisandre have to be in the north for Jon/Davos to execute her on sight?

 

[Gigglepoo]

A pragmatic man who hates black magic wouldn't ally himself with a Red Priestess and a dead man.

 

[Iksenpets]

Probably more surprised that he's the first person who hasn't tried to marry her off.

This is true, but also if Jon had just said "Lord Glover, if you back me up on everything from now on, I'll let you marry Sansa", it probably would have worked

 

[Speevy]

A pragmatic man who hates black magic wouldn't ally himself with a Red Priestess and a dead man.

Do something, anything. I don't know...I'm just a simple crabber's son. BRING HIM BACK TO LIFE.

 

[The Artisan]

A pragmatic man who hates black magic wouldn't ally himself with a Red Priestess and a dead man.

Didn't he say something like "I hate the shit that you do, but I know that you can do it, I've seen the fucked up things you're capable of, so just try it." - something along those lines, I think.

but his pragmatism did pay off because the dead man wasn't dead after that day

 

[KahooTs]

Books will bring Jon back as Stannis like, merciless justice, no laughter, no smiles, no love, just the mission and no feeling. A Heart of winter, his conquest south the meaning of winter is coming. That will be the pay off.

The show was never going to do that with their star. They never liked Stannis and Harrington most likely couldn't even pull it off anyway. But they sure as shit were not going to miss out on a shock death just because they couldn't find a reason and purpose for the scene when they've otherwise got all the justification for it.

 

[Gnome]

Probably more surprised that he's the first person who hasn't tried to marry her off.

She's already married, silly, to Tyrion <3

Books will bring Jon back as Stannis like, merciless justice, no laughter, no smiles, no love, just the mission and no feeling. A Heart of winter, his conquest south the meaning of winter is coming. That will be the pay off.

The show was never going to do that with their star. They never liked Stannis and Harrington most likely couldn't even pull it off anyway. But they sure as shit were not going to miss out on a shock death just because they couldn't find a reason and purpose for the scene when they've otherwise got all the justification for it.

This is what I think will happen with Jon no doubt. He'll come back as a version of the god Surtr in Norse mythology, with his flaming sword. His new merciless disposition will be the "flames that will engulf the earth", basically him leading a scorched earth military campaign.

 

[John Dunbar]

the only reason for davos to want to resurrect jon is because he had read the books and knew he wasn't really dead.

look carefully and you can see a half-finished manuscript of the winds of winter in the library of dragonstone.

 

[Speevy]

She's already married, silly, to Tyrion <3

I heard about your marriage to Ramsay. Can I touch you now?

*slap*

Okay, bad joke.

 

[Gnome]

I heard about your marriage to Ramsay. Can I touch you now?

*slap*

Okay, bad joke.

Not out of line for where book Tyrion is at though.

 

[The Artisan]

I just started reading the book today. I dunno if it's because I'm a pothead or that I'm just getting old and impatient but it seemed like a very mundane read. I got up to...I think it was the Ned chapter where he brings Robert to the crypts of Winterfell

 

[Brakke]

It really seems like they killed a character and brought him back to life for no other reason than so Jon could leave the Watch. There are no consequences to his resurrection (either internal or external) and he hasn't even talked about it. Super weird decision. And that's not even getting into why Davos cared about Jon or why Davos ignored his hatred of black magic to team up with Mel so she could raise him from the dead.

And he never even asked her if they could resurrect Shareen, Stanis, or his son. He just wanted Jon back and then resumed hating Mel and black magic.

This is a bad read. Davos didn't "just" return to hating Mel, he found out about Shireen. Jon has absolutely "talked about it": he ordered Mel not to do it again. Had a whole conversation with her about it.

 

[Gnome]

I just started reading the book today. I dunno if it's because I'm a pothead or that I'm just getting old and impatient but it seemed like a very mundane read. I got up to...I think it was the Ned chapter where he brings Robert to the crypts of Winterfell

Season 1 is very faithful to the book, it will feel slow because it will be 90% retreading old ground for you.

 

[Brakke]

Davos has always been a true believer in the White Walker threat. It was his idea to take Stannis north in the first place. He believes Jon about the army of the dead, he cares about beating them, and he believes Jon is best suited for that job. Of course he believes in Jon, he just saw a bunch of Nightwatch cowards commit treason rather than recognize the threat.

 

[The Artisan]

Season 1 is very faithful to the book, it will feel slow because it will be 90% retreading old ground for you.

you're right, this is probably what my mindset was

 

[Johnlenham]

I really hate how they've portrayed Euron in the show, but if he's gonna kill sand snakes...

#TeamEuron

I liked how they are portrayed as badass killers assassins, even had one of them throwing knife kill a guy but 3 of them couldnt do fuck all against him.

 

[brentech]

I liked how they are portrayed as badass killers assassins, even had one of them throwing knife kill a guy but 3 of them couldnt do fuck all against him.

Felt the same way. They ultimately didn't seem like a threat at all.

 

[Zolo]

Her and Bran both. Bran knows a lot, a lot, a lot...
what's an anti-villain? never heard of that before, might be interesting. an anti-hero the way i understand it is a character without the best principle or morals, who ends up going out of their way to do the right thing.

my guess is an anti-villain being more of the tragic hero type?

An anti-villain is a villain with heroic goals and other heroic virtues that uses evil means to reach that goal. Might be different definitions of it though depending on who you ask.

 

[KahooTs]

Giving Euron a Valyrian steel armour set and having him laugh while their attacks bounced off him would have been cool.

But making him a sexy looking set of armour is more effort than they're willing for this side of the story.

 

[The Artisan]

An anti-villain is a villain with heroic goals and other heroic virtues that uses evil means to reach that goal. Might be different definitions of it though depending on who you ask.

oh i see. thrones is chalk full of tragic heroes but they're not the same as anti villains. you don't hear a lot about em though so that must mean there aren't that many.

so i guess qyburn is an anti villain too?

 

[jdstorm]

The Anti Hero/ Anti Villan is the same thing. Both would opperate in the grey area between good and bad. Besides ultimately if you do something Heroic you are a Hero regardless of motivation.

 

[Speevy]

Felt the same way. They ultimately didn't seem like a threat at all.

I think Pilou Asbaek tweeted #you'rewelcome or something.

I like this guy.

 

[Brakke]

oh i see. thrones is chalk full of tragic heroes but they're not the same as anti villains. you don't hear a lot about em though so that must mean there aren't that many.

so i guess qyburn is an anti villain too?

lol nah what at all is good about Qyburn?

We could pretend he's neutral, he only really cares about making cool shit. But all the things he makes are only useful for murder so. He's a baddie.

 

[The Artisan]

lol nah what at all is good about Qyburn?

We could pretend he's neutral, he only really cares about making cool shit. But all the things he makes are only useful for murder so. He's a baddie.

his evil experiments have resulted in him being "one of the most talented healers in all of Westeros"

how is it that he ended up in Harrenhal when the show started?

 

[Speevy]

lol nah what at all is good about Qyburn?

We could pretend he's neutral, he only really cares about making cool shit. But all the things he makes are only useful for murder so. He's a baddie.

Qyburn is awesome because he's only alive because Robb Stark found him in a pile of bodies and ends up being the hand.

 

[John Dunbar]

his evil experiments have resulted in him being "one of the most talented healers in all of Westeros"

how is it that he ended up in Harrenhal when the show started?

my book/show memories might be mixed up, but i think he was kicked from being a maester because of human experiments, and then he worked as a healer for the mercenaries who cut jaime's hand off.

 

[The Artisan]

my book/show memories might be mixed up, but i think he was kicked from being a maester because of human experiments, and then he worked as a healer for the mercenaries who cut jaime's hand off.

oh, they were mercs in the books? in the show they were bolton soldiers

 

[Gnome]

oh, they were mercs in the books? in the show they were bolton soldiers

In the book it's the Brave Companions. A hired merc group working for Tywin.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

In the book it's the Brave Companions. A hired merc group working for Tywin.

Vargo Hoat was sadly missed, instead we got some forgettable generic piece of shit.

 

[jfkgoblue]

It really seems like they killed a character and brought him back to life for no other reason than so Jon could leave the Watch. There are no consequences to his resurrection (either internal or external) and he hasn't even talked about it. Super weird decision. And that's not even getting into why Davos cared about Jon or why Davos ignored his hatred of black magic to team up with Mel so she could raise him from the dead.

And he never even asked her if they could resurrect Shareen, Stanis, or his son. He just wanted Jon back and then resumed hating Mel and black magic.

This wasn't a D&D decision though. I guarantee that GRRM will resurrect Jon and only did it so he could leave the watch.

 

[Gnome]

This wasn't a D&D decision though. I guarantee that GRRM will resurrect Jon and only did it so he could leave the watch.

It totally will not just be so Jon can leave the watch. He will leave, sure, but that's not the only reason to bring him back. The books make it very apparent the changes that happen to people who are brought back to life. They are not the same, and Jon won't be the same. Unlike the show, where he is the exact same.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I just started reading the book today. I dunno if it's because I'm a pothead or that I'm just getting old and impatient but it seemed like a very mundane read. I got up to...I think it was the Ned chapter where he brings Robert to the crypts of Winterfell

I struggled to get through the first book, but book 2 was one of the best books I ever read.

 

[The Artisan]

It totally will not just be so Jon can leave the watch. He will leave, sure, but that's not the only reason to bring him back. The books make it very apparent the changes that happen to people who are brought back to life. They are not the same, and Jon won't be the same. Unlike the show, where he is the exact same.

apparently he did change but it's more subtle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxbMcy6noes

how different is Beric Dondarion in the books?

 

[Gigglepoo]

This wasn't a D&D decision though. I guarantee that GRRM will resurrect Jon and only did it so he could leave the watch.

Martin has been super open about there being consequences for resurrection. Jon hasn't had any consequences. And every decision on the show is D&D's decision. They choose what to adapt, what to leave in the books, and how to do it.

 

[Burt]

It totally will not just be so Jon can leave the watch. He will leave, sure, but that's not the only reason to bring him back. The books make it very apparent the changes that happen to people who are brought back to life. They are not the same, and Jon won't be the same. Unlike the show, where he is the exact same.

Psh, Jon never even dies in the books though, he's just hiding out in Ghost's body.



What if he comes back with a penchant for howling