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[Updated] CFO Hiroki Totoki Not Concerned with Third Party Software Sales on PC
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
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SweetTooth
Gold Member
Well, they should.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Astray
Member
Very overrated threat imo.
They have zero capability to launch ajd promote hardware at the scale of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft.
Skifi28
Member
Console is the new "I need to update my drivers."
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I got PS+ Premium stacked until almost 2027, but I’m starting to value my Steam library more than my ps library. I still get the PlayStation first party games on ps5 to not have to wait, but pretty much everything else I’m getting from Steam and steam key sites for much cheaper.
Futaleufu
Member
You mean people that couldnt afford a PC
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Said it before but it bears repeating…. Sony releases like 1 or 2 games a year. Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Fatlus games, Tekken, Street Fighter, etc all being day 1 on Steam had a much bigger effect on the market than Sony games getting ported. Personally I bought Ps3 and Ps4 to play those defacto exclusives, not Uncharted. Thankfully those days are long gone.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
seems like this is the first gen that PC is viewed as a legit threat to consoles
prior to ps4, PC and console always used to be such different spaces.
wild times
prior to ps4, PC and console always used to be such different spaces.
wild times
ConkerTheSquirrel.
Member
Sony:
LordOcidax
Member
They are selling games on PC… Why they should be worry?
Aces High
Gold Member
If they don't sell on PC, they can't recoup dev costs for AAA games.
If they sell on PC, they risk damaging their platform and hardware business.
It's a classical dilemma.
mayham2199
Member
That's one way it could go. It could also lead to them losing a portion of their player base and costing them more money down the line. I get you guys want day and date on PC but you can't possibly think there's no possibility it wont hurt their console sales. IMO it's not worth the risk to play that game right now. After Xbox is officially done? Then I say they can test it out but I wouldn't even attempt it right now and they can always go day and date later down the line there is no rush to do it now.
It will also require them to hire a ton more people in every single studio. Producing one PS5 game and porting later is much easier than creating multiple versions at the same time. A lot of their studios just aren't setup for that.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Sony also shared that a significant amount of PS5 users was new, as in not migrated from previous gens.
PS is most definitely picking up whatever is leaving Xbox. Sales from previous gens show the same trend.
TheChumpNation
Member
He's probably right to not worry about an exodus of players from PS to PC.
That being said, the release of the Pro is what convinced me to jump back into PC gaming. I doubt that I'm one of many, but I suppose it's possible.
That being said, the release of the Pro is what convinced me to jump back into PC gaming. I doubt that I'm one of many, but I suppose it's possible.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
So this is about 3P sales? I don't know why they'd ask Totoki this; he doesn't control how 3P games sell on PS consoles, unless SIE are publishing them in some sort of deal, or have a marketing deal. Even then, control only extends to having influence on the game to help push its sales on PS systems.
3P sales on PS consoles isn't even what most of us have been talking about; it's first-party games being ported to PC, specifically Windows OS and the Steam storefront, with narrower windows or Day 1 in some cases, that is the danger game SIE are playing. Their bullishness on PC would make more sense if the ports and Day 1 stuff were primarily targeted at their own storefront, but it's not.
As time goes on, any number of customers they get to migrate towards Windows and Steam to purchase SIE games still poses a danger in some form, because that customer is also more likely to move their 3P purchases to those platforms, including MTX add-on content. They'll increase their time on those platforms too, meaning less likely they buy a PS+ subscription.
Actually if you look at Japan, the question about 3P sales and PC being a threat to PS makes some sense, because console market share has stagnated there the past 4 years while PC's share has tripled and now almost matches consoles. If Nintendo's been dominating as well as they have, and Microsoft are as much a non-starter as they've always been, then the only excuse for console stagnation is that PS revenue in Japan has dropped a lot gen-over-gen.
When we look at the Famitsu and Media Create charts, the performance for PS5 software this gen kind of validates that suspicion. The software sales simply aren't there in Japan, by and large. Digital doesn't make up for that because on average digital is less for Japan than other markets. PS5 consoles may be doing well enough there (although now they're pacing to fall behind PS4 launch-aligned), but actual software sales have just been embarrassing.
So I think the question of platforms like PC (Windows OS, Steam storefront specifically) being a market threat to PS longer-term is a valid question, but it's more valid for certain territories than others, at least for now. Though, SIE's strategy with PC so far this gen is only helping to enable it, and the worst part is they're doing it while having no vested interests in the PC space of their own to prioritize that expansion through. It's going to bite them in the ass at some point long-term if they don't make some major changes to how they support platforms that aren't PlayStation on PC.
I'm not saying they need to drop Steam or Windows altogether. They can still bring many of their GAAS to them, and some of the big 1P titles they've already introduced to Steam like God of War, Horizon & Spiderman. But they need to start readjusting outside of that to focus on their own storefront, don't get in the habit of porting all or most of their content to other storefronts, and save any Day 1 for non-GAAS titles on PC to their own storefront.
That at least provides some ways of better handling Steam. As for Windows OS, well SIE's best option is to prioritize and optimize a storefront for Mac OS, since Apple want to get more into core gaming, and already have a great working relationship with Sony & SIE. There's likely a lot more cross-platform benefits that can be had between PlayStation and Apple long-term than PlayStation and Microsoft, especially considering Microsoft's history in being a competitor to PlayStation with Xbox (a history still ongoing, and might not change too much even with the next devices, especially if we look at this from a platform vs. platform POV instead of just console vs. console).
3P sales on PS consoles isn't even what most of us have been talking about; it's first-party games being ported to PC, specifically Windows OS and the Steam storefront, with narrower windows or Day 1 in some cases, that is the danger game SIE are playing. Their bullishness on PC would make more sense if the ports and Day 1 stuff were primarily targeted at their own storefront, but it's not.
As time goes on, any number of customers they get to migrate towards Windows and Steam to purchase SIE games still poses a danger in some form, because that customer is also more likely to move their 3P purchases to those platforms, including MTX add-on content. They'll increase their time on those platforms too, meaning less likely they buy a PS+ subscription.
Actually if you look at Japan, the question about 3P sales and PC being a threat to PS makes some sense, because console market share has stagnated there the past 4 years while PC's share has tripled and now almost matches consoles. If Nintendo's been dominating as well as they have, and Microsoft are as much a non-starter as they've always been, then the only excuse for console stagnation is that PS revenue in Japan has dropped a lot gen-over-gen.
When we look at the Famitsu and Media Create charts, the performance for PS5 software this gen kind of validates that suspicion. The software sales simply aren't there in Japan, by and large. Digital doesn't make up for that because on average digital is less for Japan than other markets. PS5 consoles may be doing well enough there (although now they're pacing to fall behind PS4 launch-aligned), but actual software sales have just been embarrassing.
So I think the question of platforms like PC (Windows OS, Steam storefront specifically) being a market threat to PS longer-term is a valid question, but it's more valid for certain territories than others, at least for now. Though, SIE's strategy with PC so far this gen is only helping to enable it, and the worst part is they're doing it while having no vested interests in the PC space of their own to prioritize that expansion through. It's going to bite them in the ass at some point long-term if they don't make some major changes to how they support platforms that aren't PlayStation on PC.
I'm not saying they need to drop Steam or Windows altogether. They can still bring many of their GAAS to them, and some of the big 1P titles they've already introduced to Steam like God of War, Horizon & Spiderman. But they need to start readjusting outside of that to focus on their own storefront, don't get in the habit of porting all or most of their content to other storefronts, and save any Day 1 for non-GAAS titles on PC to their own storefront.
That at least provides some ways of better handling Steam. As for Windows OS, well SIE's best option is to prioritize and optimize a storefront for Mac OS, since Apple want to get more into core gaming, and already have a great working relationship with Sony & SIE. There's likely a lot more cross-platform benefits that can be had between PlayStation and Apple long-term than PlayStation and Microsoft, especially considering Microsoft's history in being a competitor to PlayStation with Xbox (a history still ongoing, and might not change too much even with the next devices, especially if we look at this from a platform vs. platform POV instead of just console vs. console).
Shake Your Rump
Banned
I switched from PC back to console. Digital games suck in multiple ways and PS5 games all come in physical form.
Crayon
Member
I just don't see how that can be the case. Why kind of people switch may be just as important as how many.
I do think there could be some truth to people switching the other way. GPUs are expensive and you can't find a hardware review without two Sony games in the roster. I could really only see defected console users going back after trying PC, though.
I do think there could be some truth to people switching the other way. GPUs are expensive and you can't find a hardware review without two Sony games in the roster. I could really only see defected console users going back after trying PC, though.
How do you know those new users were former xbox owners?
They are always gaining new customers and losing old customers with each new console so I don’t think that stat is very noteworthy.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
So you think PC is becoming more popular in Japan because of games like Uncharted and Horizon being available on PC rather than Monster Hunter, Persona, and Dragon Quest? Interesting.
Kerotan
Member
There's multiple reasons. Putting everything day and date on pc will convince less to go playstation.
JimboJones
Member
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
It is the dreadful part of having to update the controllers in addition to the system and games that’s discouraging me from turning on my PS5 now.
Fabieter
Member
Some of those like GOT sold decently in Japan on ps4 so its a mix of both.
Sorcerer
Member
In my mind Sony's strategy with the way they release games on PC is they think PC players are impatient waiting for the ports, and Sony believes by making those players wait, they will break down and get the console so they can play day one. I don't think that actually works, however. But in the meantime, Sony probably loses nothing by putting an old (already successful) game out on PC. Porting costs are almost assuredly gained back and then some.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
That's the customers he's serving at GameStop.
I wish I had just one friend
Sakura
Member
Two years ago they said something like 30% of PS5 users never had a PS4, not that they didn't migrate from previous gens (https://gamerant.com/sony-third-ps5-users-never-owned-ps4/).
But this is kind of a pointless metric without any context. For example, at the same time frame, how many PS4 users had never had a PS3 before? How many Switch purchasers never had a Wii U? What is a typical amount look like? This kind of thing is just fluff for investors.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Felessan
Member
Mobile gets it.
Steam growth mainly attributed to the new territories like China and migrating off-Steam games (gaas) to Steam.
It will damage their long term revenue greatly - so it's classical short term gain vs long term loss, and Sony in no need to hazardly follow short gains
GaaS is a different story as they heavily depends on playerbase right from the start, so it's a normal move to put them on many platforms, given that platform potential game userbase size justify support cost
Because of Genshin and company
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
That's not what I said. I've already acknowledged that PS losing defacto exclusives like those IP to Steam Day 1 has negatively impacted some brand growth going forward.
But the other reason that situation is happening is because SIE's 1P strategy for PC helps enable it. If the platform holder is bringing their own games to something like Steam in high frequency, and Day 1 in some cases, then 3P will see that and think they should take up the same strategy or do even more. Japanese 3P were some of the last big holdouts in prioritizing PC until earlier on this gen; I don't think the timing of SIE making a push for PC with games like Horizon & GOW, and Japanese 3P like Capcom and SEGA/Atlus prioritizing PC more this gen, is a big coincidence.
Not me saying Capcom or SEGA were waiting for SIE to do that before putting more emphasis on Steam, just that both happened in relatively similar timeframes. Also the more SIE continue to push ports to platforms like Steam (especially with shorter & shorter windows between console & Steam versions), the less likely they'll be able to get 3P timed exclusives for their console, because 3P won't do for PlayStation what SIE aren't willing to do for it themselves. I mean we might've seen some of the effects of that when Pearl Abyss turned down a timed exclusivity offer from SIE for one of their upcoming games, it's probably why SIE seemingly can't get a 3P exclusive for longer than a year or two whereas before it could've been several years or even the entire generation.
The 3P situation is ultimately in the hands of 3P which is why SIE can't do much about it directly, but it's also somewhat influenced by the 1P multiplatform strategy which is something SIE have complete control over. Hence why I said, it's their PC strategy with 1P that SIE should be a lot more concerned with & focused on. The 3P stuff will just naturally follow course.
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