IrishNinja
Member
holy shit...can you switch on the fly, you think? god i love tinkering with shit like this sometimes
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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holy shit...can you switch on the fly, you think? god i love tinkering with shit like this sometimes
baphomet
Member
Im wondering the same thing actually. I dont see why not because nothing is changing as far as the NES is concerned. Yea its going to be fun just checking out the difference between them in different games.
I had this problem too when using a 3rd party power supply for the Mini (i live in Sweden). I solved this by getting a step down converter and am now using the power supply that came with the Mini and have not had any problems since.
Also, have you tried adjusting the sync level up and down a few steps? I think you can find it in the "visuals" menu. This seems to solve the issue for most people.
That's probably an excellent idea.
I will try it. Thank you!
I just hope that with all the components plugged together, it won't introduce an additional lag somewhere...
sixteen-bit
Member
Sounds awesome.
Bar81
Member
Aren't the NES RGBs (with power supply) practically the same price (the power supplies are going for $250+ last I heard).
Bog
Junior Ace
Yeah, it does seem to happen at different spots. For instance, the menus in certain games are fine, but once it gets to the game itself, I get random drops.
Thanks, I'll try that. What does that actually do, though?
Power supplies? I'm guessing you mean PPU (picture processing unit).
Do you mean the PPU chip? Yes, they go for $250 to $300, which is why we're all excited about this new board from viletim that goes for $90 or so. Brings the cost of an RGB NES mod down to $200 or so if you have it sent out, and just the $90 if you can do the work yourself. *AND* you get to select the normal NES color suite to boot.
Bar81
Member
I'm probably confused. I thought people were stealing the power supplies from Nintendo arcade units for these. Thanks for clarifying.
NP. Here's a description of the current Playchoice-10 PPU mod method: http://www.retrorgb.com/nesrgb.html
Bar81
Member
That was it, thanks. I somehow took PPU to mean PSU, which is why I was confused.
Here's what I'm getting, any ideas from the experts here?
Hope this works:
I got an early release copy of Mother 22!
FINALLY got my replacement SNES RGB cable, what a difference! Both from wiggly waviness before AND how stunning RGB looks!
sixteen-bit
Member
Glad you got the upgrade. That old cable looks trippy as hell though! Kind of stuff you might see at an art installation, lol.
Do the drop outs happen predictably, i.e., do they happen at the same place in a given game every time? It may be that the Framemeister is losing sync with the console (due to a resolution switch or some other catalyst), which in turn causes the dropouts you're seeing.
One particular game I remember is Yoshi's Island; it would drop out soon after booting up (right before or after the spinning title screen). If this sounds like the case, check out retro_console_accessories on eBay. She sells a sync boost cable that resolved these issues for me.
So for a long time I was searching for an affordable upscaling solution for my PS2 because my LCD TV does a terrible job with 480i signals. When going from PS2 to my TV through component cables for games that don't support 480p (which is most of them), the end result is a poorly de-interlaced, laggy mess.
Now I had an 80GB PS3 for the longest time, and it did a decent job running most of my PS2 games. That being said, that model merely had software emulation for playing PS2 games and didn't work well with about 40% of my PS2 library.
So after doing extensive research all over the web (AVS Forums, Fudoh's site... etc.), I decided that I simply couldn't afford a quality upscaling unit. So I took the cheap route and ordered some $50 upconverter unit on eBay. That was a mistake. The thing didn't even do a better job than my TV at de-interlacing, and the picture it was outputting was soft and disgusting to look at. It completely crushed blacks too, destroying detail in dark areas.
So I got to a point where I had to decide whether or not I was okay with a good chunk of my large PS2 collection not being playable on my main gaming TV. I decided that I wasn't. So what did I do? I ended up trading in my 80GB PS3 for a GameStop factory refurbished 60GB PS3, popped a 500GB hard drive into it, and then set it up under my TV.
Now I have one box that does a pretty damn good job upscaling, and a great job de-interlacing my entire PS1, PS2, PS3 collection. I had always envied launch PS3 owners for this very reason, and now I can count myself among that elite company.
Now I had an 80GB PS3 for the longest time, and it did a decent job running most of my PS2 games. That being said, that model merely had software emulation for playing PS2 games and didn't work well with about 40% of my PS2 library.
So after doing extensive research all over the web (AVS Forums, Fudoh's site... etc.), I decided that I simply couldn't afford a quality upscaling unit. So I took the cheap route and ordered some $50 upconverter unit on eBay. That was a mistake. The thing didn't even do a better job than my TV at de-interlacing, and the picture it was outputting was soft and disgusting to look at. It completely crushed blacks too, destroying detail in dark areas.
So I got to a point where I had to decide whether or not I was okay with a good chunk of my large PS2 collection not being playable on my main gaming TV. I decided that I wasn't. So what did I do? I ended up trading in my 80GB PS3 for a GameStop factory refurbished 60GB PS3, popped a 500GB hard drive into it, and then set it up under my TV.
Now I have one box that does a pretty damn good job upscaling, and a great job de-interlacing my entire PS1, PS2, PS3 collection. I had always envied launch PS3 owners for this very reason, and now I can count myself among that elite company.
Ahaha you just convinced me to keep that cable with that comment, I was just going to chuck it out!
The new one is a boosted sync cable by the way, so if anyone has the same problem, we now have the solution!
Where are you people buying these PPUs from? Seriously. I've purchased multiple PPUs over the past two years with little to no effort for less than $100. I've even sold them for $40-$60 and never thought twice about it.
They are really not that uncommon.
This sounds like a classic sync issue. The Framemeister needs more fine-tuning compared to the analog-only XRGB units.
Try some of the sync settings listed here: junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER‎
Shadow Hog
Member
Well, went ahead and took the plunge... two SNES SCART cables (one for an RGB-modded N64) and one Model 1 Genesis SCART cable (will probably want to find a 2.5mm-to-RCA adapter; I could just use the headphone jack like everyone else, but since my Genesis was modded to have RCA ports on the back to go with the S-Video mod, I might as well use 'em), as well as the SCART->DIN adapter so it'd work on an XRGB-mini.
Should probably get a Saturn SCART cable too, but eh, maybe in a bit.
Should probably get a Saturn SCART cable too, but eh, maybe in a bit.
viletim's NES RGB boards are available for sale (and cables are already sold out):
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/
sixteen-bit
Member
I'd love to hear impressions of them. Anyone here get one?
El Pescado
Member
I'm super intrigued. How is the PPU mod going?
Started looking for other options for a Saturn RGB cable. Found this multi-system mutant, but worried that it is complete crap. Anyone know anything about this cable?
Shadow Hog
Member
Yeah, I've been checking out my options for an NTSC-J/U SCART cable (not a PAL one, which is all that British site offers, and not a JP21 cable) too. I saw that as well, but I'm shying away from multiconsole cables on principle; if they tend to do a mediocre job with composite or S-Video, odds are good they'll not be great for RGB, either.
From my understanding the only difference between PAL and NTSC Saturn is that one pin that is a composite sync on NTSC is a +5V pin on PAL instead. So unless you're plugging it into something that really needs that +5V from the SCART end, a standard off-the-shelf SCART cable made for PAL should work fine on a NTSC Saturn.
(EDIT: replied to the wrong post)
Shadow Hog
Member
While that stuff about the pins is correct, what I'd gathered from my cursory Google searches was that that one pin difference is enough to completely screw up the video signal. I don't really want to take chances, honestly; I'd be getting a SCART cable to improve the video quality over S-Video, not worsen it.
viletim is sold out of boards now (IrishNinja, did you get one?)
orders won't ship this week.
he posted the following about SNES SCART cables:
I assume that means SCART cables from retro_console_accessories won't work, either. Game-Tech was going to try to mod mine with a multi-out but given this I'll probably just go with S-Video until Tim gets more cables in stock.
Does anyone know of an 8-pin mini-din RGB cable that I could use (either terminating in a SCART/JP21 plug or in another mini-din)?
orders won't ship this week.
he posted the following about SNES SCART cables:
I assume that means SCART cables from retro_console_accessories won't work, either. Game-Tech was going to try to mod mine with a multi-out but given this I'll probably just go with S-Video until Tim gets more cables in stock.
Does anyone know of an 8-pin mini-din RGB cable that I could use (either terminating in a SCART/JP21 plug or in another mini-din)?
IrishNinja
Member
sadly no, got hit with a few things at the same time & had to hold off...which is fine, i figure; gives time for people to get familiar with em, and i gotta work out getting it shipped to baphomet 666 to mod whenever he has the next wave of em out. sucks cause i was waiting on it, but hopefully it won't be too long till he has more?
baphomet
Member
I talked to him this morning actually and he talke like he would have stock for cables and boards back in relatively soon. You should have told me and i wouldnt have cared to grab an extra board and cable. Shipping is the same $21 if its 1 board or 5 boards i believe.
I ended up getting 2 board and 2 cables. Cables are in case i cant get a genesis 2 jack working on the back. Shouldnt be too difficult, but i wanted to make sure there was a backup.
For anyone wanting one installed contact me through pm and we will work something out. I wot be certain until i receive and install mine but i think its going to be around $85 for the install.
baphomet
Member
Ill keep you in mind for sure. If i dont need them ill sell it for what it cost + shipping. As far as i know from reading, the reason other cables arent going to work is because the rgb lines on the board already have a 200uf cap and 75 ohm resistor, and usually those are built into the cable. If you asked someone to build a cable with the lines straight through, it should work. Dont take that as fact, thats what i understand from what ive read, but until i have one in hand i wont know for sure.
I already had some 9 pin mini din jacks i bought in preparation for this, which are genesis 2 jacks. I was planning on just using those and my existing cable. After reading i purchased another genesis rgb cable and im going to remove anything on the lines and see if that will work well. I wont know until everything is here though.
Yeah ive order 2 for my NTSC front loaders, but the Scart cables had sold out, not sure if i can use a substitute cable or not
IrishNinja
Member
aw, man...stuff was kinda last minute & i thought about it but you sounded busy with projects & i didn't yet have any other customers to send your way so i didn't wanna trouble you m'man. really appreciate it though! since you're out over there like i said, id prolly have it sent your way (and then just send my NES) to save $/trouble anyway.
Would the Wii benefit from an up-scaler? I mean, for regular Wii games playing on HDTVs?
Unfortunately i went through the later half of my Wii collection with that nasty feeling of "...this would look a LOT better on a CRT..." and now that i have the means, i'm tempted give this a try.
Unfortunately i went through the later half of my Wii collection with that nasty feeling of "...this would look a LOT better on a CRT..." and now that i have the means, i'm tempted give this a try.
If you set your Wii to 480p and your TV has a halfway-decent scaler, then you really shouldn't need a dedicated video processor. 480p piped through component cables to an HDTV is pretty much as good as it's gonna look.
IrishNinja
Member
..have you seen a Wii over XRGB? this isn't at all true
sadly the Wii-U's internal upscaler throws it off, but a regular Wii upscaled looks fantastic, ask Yes Boss!
How exactly would an XRGB improve the Wii's 480P widescreen output? It already scales perfectly to most modern televisions, and there's no de-interlacing to be done.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I dunno.. Upscaled Wii is always just.. Ok. It's kind of a more pixel perfect image than without the upscaler, but I don't know if its a big improvement. I certainly wouldn't buy an upscaler just for Wii games, but it's ok if you want all your consoles hooked through the upscaler you already have.
But Wii VC games, when they are being output at 240p, and then upscaled? That looks great!
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, i recall that being most of his use for it, "emulation perfection" or the like, heh. like boco said i woudln't go out of my way to buy one just for regular wii titles but having one, id absolutely plug it in. so many settings to toy with & see what you like best.
No smack-down needed.
If you have anything bigger than a 27" HDTV and a Mini it is ridiculous to not use it. You get to upscale it and add some scanlines to 720p.
Sublime. Everything. From that late Kirby release to Rhythm Heaven Fever to Galaxy to S&P2.
Wii looks terrible on big HDTV displays and any help it welcome. Wii U on the other hand displays 480p Wii Classic games good but no way matches the Mini/Wii combo.
I did not even know this was an issue?!?!
If you have anything bigger than a 27" HDTV and a Mini it is ridiculous to not use it. You get to upscale it and add some scanlines to 720p.
Sublime. Everything. From that late Kirby release to Rhythm Heaven Fever to Galaxy to S&P2.
Wii looks terrible on big HDTV displays and any help it welcome. Wii U on the other hand displays 480p Wii Classic games good but no way matches the Mini/Wii combo.
I did not even know this was an issue?!?!
There's a slight caveat to running 480p stuff through the mini. Most people will set their output resolution to 720p, and that's understandable for the scanlines. 240p content scales nicely to this resolution.
Now, 480p doesn't scale as nice to 720p... or at least you won't get the best picture. For the best picture quality on 480p content, I've found, is to set the output resolution to 1080p and set the mode to X2. This'll essentially linedouble the 480p, something you don't have enough resolution for when in 720p output resolution.
You linedouble the display but that leaves 120 lines. Can you set them to scanlines or something?
True, but I prefer the video options at 720 and overall I'm happier at that res. Some of the stuff is not there or problematic at 1080 (namely scanlines), which I do add to things like Galaxy and Kirby Dreamland.
Also worth mentioning: as crazy good as the Mini is, it is very tricky for 480p stuff. I still struggle to get anything good out of my PS2 for 480p stuff. I only have a couple PS2 games, though. I just tend to not really play that system...having kinda missed most of it during the years it was out...and I don't really feel compelled to go explore it either.
For the most part, I'm very happy with Wii VC, though, since those are 240...and I use my Wii mostly for that. During the last year I've used my Wii U mostly for normal disc Wii games...mostly for convenience.
baphomet
Member
Should be pretty good as it has rgb inputs on it.
Terrible. Let me dispose of it for you.
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