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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
sixteen-bit
Member
Congrats! Post pics when you get it if you can!
SOME-MIST
Member
will do - pickup is next monday-friday and I probably won't nab it till next Friday. There's a shmupsmeet in Chicago next week and I'm probably going to have someone drive me to go pickup the monitor and head to the meet.
now I just have to figure out what I'm going to use for speakers ._.
any cheap suggestions?
now I just have to figure out what I'm going to use for speakers ._.
any cheap suggestions?
theSlacker
Member
Cheap? Any shitty powered 2.1 computer speakers. Good? Some bookshelf speakers with an amp.
Also I'm mad jelly of your prices. Wish I could find some more BVM sets around me since the ones I got have a ton of hours.
Superblatt
Member
I'm in Chicago and have that exact CRT, you're going to love it. Where is this shmups meet? Also, you will need an amp of some sort.
SOME-MIST
Member
nice. I figured there's no aux so I'd have to split it and probably use an amp for better results. they also had a bvm-l230 lcd master monitor that went for $500 and a couple bvm-a24e1wu monitors that went for $50.
I'm excited :>
galloping ghost arcade. we had it there last year and it went pretty well even though attendance was down from the few years that it was at logan's hardware. it's being organized via the shmups forums but I'm only expecting about a half dozen or so people from the midwest.
Edit: annnnd snagged a dc vga box and extron super emotia
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
got a S-video modded genesis model 1 and there seems to be some weird banding effect going on when used through my xrgb mini. It's like a horizontal line of a different tint that keeps moving down the screen. No settings I've changed have fixed it. When I hook up the genesis without the XRGB Mini, it isn't there, so it must be the scaler. anyone dealt with this? would a RGB cable solve this?
edit: turning on vertical polarity seemed to help though it's still a little weird? i have no idea what's going on.
edit: turning on vertical polarity seemed to help though it's still a little weird? i have no idea what's going on.
NormalFish
Banned
firmware 2.00a is live for the Framemeister. Fixes the 'limited' color range setting.
http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm
Aside: goldenpp72 I responded to your question best I could on the last page. Hoping you saw it, but I figured I'd let you know since it was the last post on the page.
http://micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm
Aside: goldenpp72 I responded to your question best I could on the last page. Hoping you saw it, but I figured I'd let you know since it was the last post on the page.
NormalFish
Banned
limited either didn't do anything or just straight messed up colors. Can't recall which.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
weird, thought it worked fine. will update. thanks!
sixteen-bit
Member
MLIG video on the 240p Test Suite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUdfPdM1mw0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUdfPdM1mw0
NormalFish
Banned
Nice! Was just thinking about this series and wondering when the next video would be.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
ok, that totally fixed that problem I was having. I guess it was the Limited range messing with colors. woo!
Great introduction to the Test suite. Too bad they don't go into details of what to do with each test, what to calibrate and how. They're going to make a CRT calibration video so I'm hopeful they will go more in depth then. Still, their videos are the best on the subject on the internet, by a mile.
Yeah, I'm gonna wait for that video too.
There's a pretty comprehensive Service Menu on my TV, but I still struggle to find the best tweaks, aspecially on the V-Lin/S-Correction side. I don't expect perfect geometry on such model, but I still believe there's room for improvement.
Too bad I don't have any hardware able to run that test, apparently. The only modded console I have is a fat PAL PS2, with a Messiah2 modchip in it (which I got to play imports, before going definitely multiregion), but it didn't get mentioned at all.
goldenpp72
Member
Just saw it, I'm confused though. Can the framemeister not upscale 480p such as from xbox and ps2? I was under the impression it could using component cables.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
it does, I do them both over component. just not over rgb for the PS2 it sounds like.
Exactly. You'll need a D-Terminal to Component cable to plug them in though, as the Mini doesn't have Component-in.
The RBG-in can handle 480p in certain instances though: my Toro VGA box for the Dreamcast output 480p over a SCART cable that the Mini accepts through RGB.
moltonasty
Member
Nvm
NormalFish
Banned
A similar vga converter is what fudoh recommends to get 480p from a ps2 in to the cm via scart.
The D-terminal adapter might be a pain to get? Otherwise I can't think of anything outside the norm when buying electronics used.
The Framemeister absolutely can upscale 480p from component. My recommendations were just about image quality. As far as practicality, component for both the xbox and the ps2 is very reasonable.
Since the FM's component input is a bit noisy and the PS2 component output is also noisy, that isn't necessarily the best way to go especially for the PS2. Honestly I forgot that the FM doesn't have VGA input (because, really, why doesn't it?) so component is probably the way to go with the xbox as well.
Hi. I'd like to post my setup and screenies of the results (I made a mistake earlier by posting in a wrong thread):
HW setup:
SW Setup
Modelines:
VGA to SCART Circuit:
Connections setup:
384x256 modeline test (Kaiketsu Yanchamaru)
256x224 modeline test (Cabal)
256x224 modeline test (Elevator, notice the scanlines)
BTW, the TV shown is a flat CRT, it's not an LCD or such.
HW setup:
- CPU: AMD Athlon II X2
- MoBo: Asus M4N68T-M LE V2 (with Geforce 7025 integrated graphics card)
- 6GB RAM
- Scart To YUV (also known as YPbPr) Converter (Sold here)
- Philips 29PT9457/44 Flat CRT
SW Setup
- Windows XP SP2 Professional 64 bit edition
- Winmodelines
- MAME Setup
- Video output method: DirectDraw
- Switch resolutions to fit: Yes
- Run in a window: No
- Start out maximized: No
- Enforce aspect ratio: No
- Wait for vertical Sync: Yes
- Bilinear filtering: Disabled
- Hardware Stretching: False
Modelines:
Code:
Modeline "192x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.659 192 244 271 360 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "240x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 250 273 312 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x480@60,1Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 12.978 640 668 729 824 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "224x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 6.174 224 283 312 392 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "240x248@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 4.914 240 250 273 312 248 249 252 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x288@51,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 13.100 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "288x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.785 288 299 326 368 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "280x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.659 280 291 318 360 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 12.954 640 668 729 824 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "208x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 5.292 208 243 268 336 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "304x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.162 304 318 347 392 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "384x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 7.797 384 400 437 496 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "272x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.533 272 283 309 352 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.414 320 332 362 408 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "384x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 7.797 384 401 438 496 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x208@61,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.165 256 264 288 328 208 224 227 258 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "320x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.414 320 331 361 408 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "336x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.791 336 350 382 432 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "400x254@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 8.190 400 412 451 520 254 255 258 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "240x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 252 275 312 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "672x504@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 13.734 672 698 763 872 504 514 520 578 interlace -hsync -vsync
Modeline "240x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 252 275 312 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 10.312 512 532 580 656 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "384x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 7.812 384 396 432 496 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "400x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 8.190 400 412 451 520 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "256x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (54Hz)" 5.292 256 270 295 336 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsyncVGA to SCART Circuit:
Connections setup:
384x256 modeline test (Kaiketsu Yanchamaru)
256x224 modeline test (Cabal)
256x224 modeline test (Elevator, notice the scanlines)
BTW, the TV shown is a flat CRT, it's not an LCD or such.
Thank you sir! Yeah, I really like the JVC! I couldn't find much information on it when I was trying to decide whether or not to buy it, but the price was right and I thought it was worth the gamble, haha. The picture isn't as sharp as the 2 Trinitrons (I know it's because of the screen size in comparison to the other 2), but it's my preferred monitor at the moment!
Have you messed with the settings at all on yours to try to get a better picture?
What model JVC is it you own? I had to do minimal adjustment of the settings. I found a manual on how to access the service menu and how to set it up. To be honest the geometry was awesome straight off. I just needed to adjust the H/V size and to centre the position.
This was my geometry, as you can see, it hardly needed any adjusting.
This is my trio of screens I currently own,
drhankmccoyphd
Member
I'm toying with the idea of plugging my Wii into my PVM to play some Mario Galaxy. This game was built for SD, correct? I have both component and S-video, composite cables so I'm wondering if going with one over the other will make for a drastic change.
lol, so my neighbor across the street put out some PVMs in his yard, free for the taking.
two Vicon VM615's
anyone want them? I'd take em, but I have no space in my room,
also I picked up a sony pvm back in january and have yet to even plug the thing in... it's just sitting here lol.
if anyone is in socal and wants to pick em up, holla at me and I'll give u an address, they're in costa mesa, ca
note it actually rained the evening s/he put them out (friday or thursday night?). It's warm and sunny now so hopefully any water that made its way into the monitors is evaporated. Also it's california rain, which doesnt really count as actual rain.
two Vicon VM615's
anyone want them? I'd take em, but I have no space in my room,
also I picked up a sony pvm back in january and have yet to even plug the thing in... it's just sitting here lol.
if anyone is in socal and wants to pick em up, holla at me and I'll give u an address, they're in costa mesa, ca
note it actually rained the evening s/he put them out (friday or thursday night?). It's warm and sunny now so hopefully any water that made its way into the monitors is evaporated. Also it's california rain, which doesnt really count as actual rain.
No, the game was built for ED (480p widescreen). Unless your PVM supports 480p you're going to get a degraded 480i picture, while an HDTV will get you the real deal.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Most people consider 480p to be SD anyway.
I remember selling TV labelled as ED... That was a brief flash in the pan.
geniusbits
Member
Wouldn't an HDTV cause problems upscaling the 480p to 720 or 1080p?
Yeah HDTV is going to upscale, I am not sure what would be better in that case 480i on a pvm or 480p upscaled on HDTV. The pvm would have no input lag so I would prob go that route.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
right, I just bought a d-terminal cable for my ps2. and the component-to-d-terminal adapter for the xbox. Not sure how worth it it is to upscale 480p for the xbox, but most PS2 stuff is 480i and I forget to turn on progressive scan a lot.
Yeah, I remember handling a TV labled "EDTV" while working at package handling at UPS a few years back. Never knew straight up EDTVs were made till then.
geniusbits
Member
There are several PVMs, BVMs and other monitors (NEC XM series, some Ikegami's I think, etc.) that natively handle (without upscaling) everything from 480i to 720p/1080i. That would be a good single solution for handling everything from 240p consoles up to the early HD systems (Xbox 360 and PS3). A cheaper option for just Wii 480p stuff would be one of those consumer ED TVs.
One thing I don't know is how 480p TVs handle 480i or 240p. Do they upscale (line double) 240p content? Do they deinterlace 480i? Or do they display those natively?
Mine upscale 240p and 480i to 480p. 480p, 720p and 1080i are native. According to the internet, most (all?) consumer HD CRT behave like this.
I'm still holding on to my old widescreen SD CRT, but I'm not sure what use it could have. I have plenty of 4/3 CRT for 8-32bits gaming.
geniusbits
Member
Aren't there some CRTs that do 480p but not 720p/1080i?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Yes.
BONKERS
Member
I've yet to see one of those. I'd love a decent 20" CRT for just 480p content
Sexy as fuck. Also I have a similar Phillips CRT.
Are you using Soft15khz for this?
Hi. I'd like to post my setup and screenies of the results (I made a mistake earlier by posting in a wrong thread):
HW setup:
- CPU: AMD Athlon II X2
- MoBo: Asus M4N68T-M LE V2 (with Geforce 7025 integrated graphics card)
- 6GB RAM
- Scart To YUV (also known as YPbPr) Converter (Sold here)
- Philips 29PT9457/44 Flat CRT
SW Setup
- Windows XP SP2 Professional 64 bit edition
- Winmodelines
- MAME Setup
- Video output method: DirectDraw
- Switch resolutions to fit: Yes
- Run in a window: No
- Start out maximized: No
- Enforce aspect ratio: No
- Wait for vertical Sync: Yes
- Bilinear filtering: Disabled
- Hardware Stretching: False
Modelines:
Code:Modeline "192x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.659 192 244 271 360 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "240x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 250 273 312 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "640x480@60,1Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 12.978 640 668 729 824 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync Modeline "224x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 6.174 224 283 312 392 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "240x248@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 4.914 240 250 273 312 248 249 252 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "640x288@51,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 13.100 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync Modeline "288x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.785 288 299 326 368 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "280x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.659 280 291 318 360 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "640x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 12.954 640 668 729 824 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "208x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 5.292 208 243 268 336 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "304x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.162 304 318 347 392 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "384x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 7.797 384 400 437 496 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "256x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "272x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.533 272 283 309 352 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "320x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.414 320 332 362 408 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "384x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 7.797 384 401 438 496 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "256x208@61,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.165 256 264 288 328 208 224 227 258 -hsync -vsync Modeline "320x224@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.414 320 331 361 408 224 234 237 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "336x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 6.791 336 350 382 432 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "256x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "400x254@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 8.190 400 412 451 520 254 255 258 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "240x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 252 275 312 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "672x504@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 13.734 672 698 763 872 504 514 520 578 interlace -hsync -vsync Modeline "240x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 4.905 240 252 275 312 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "512x192@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 10.312 512 532 580 656 192 218 221 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "256x240@60,0Hz 15,7KHz (60Hz)" 5.156 256 264 288 328 240 242 245 262 -hsync -vsync Modeline "384x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 7.812 384 396 432 496 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "400x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (60Hz)" 8.190 400 412 451 520 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync Modeline "256x256@54,5Hz 15,8KHz (54Hz)" 5.292 256 270 295 336 256 257 260 289 -hsync -vsync
VGA to SCART Circuit:
Connections setup:
384x256 modeline test (Kaiketsu Yanchamaru)
256x224 modeline test (Cabal)
256x224 modeline test (Elevator, notice the scanlines)
BTW, the TV shown is a flat CRT, it's not an LCD or such.
Sexy as fuck. Also I have a similar Phillips CRT.
Are you using Soft15khz for this?
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
i realize this is basic question, but i'm legit confused-- what exactly do I need to play Genesis via RGB through a framemeister? Obviously, the cable it's self. but i'm also seeing there are several different types of cables and sync thingies and whatnot.
You just need a genesis jp21 or a scart cable and a euro scart connector. I reccomend buying a euro scart adapter for the framemeister because its easier to get euro scart cables than jp21-which looks like scart but are not the same.
geniusbits
Member
In addition to the instructions below there are different cables sold by retro_console_accessories for different models, so make sure you get the right one
goldenpp72
Member
I have an off question i'm not sure anyone can help me with, but here goes anyways. I setup my basement about half way now and I made a spot to put nothing but light gun based consoles. Exciting and most everything seems to be working alright but I hit one snag.. The tv I picked up on craigslist seems to treat it's video input as an either/or situation, so if you plug in a composite yellow cable and S-Video, it will default to S-video even if the device plugged to the switch is only hooked up via composite.
Basically the scenario is I have all my consoles hooked up either by RF (Master system and Nes) or S-video, but my Sega CDX apparently never had an S-video cable made for it, so if it is to be part of the switch I have (which can only hold 6 things as is) then I have to find a solution to get it to work. I happened to have a small cable on hand where you can plug a yellow composite into a cord that then outputs S-video, but not only did this make all the pixels super chunky but it disabled the light gun from being able to do anything, so that didn't work.
I guess i'm looking for some solution outside of having to unlplug the cable from behind the tv when I want to use that system. Maybe some kind of switch that cuts off the signal of one or the other or some other solution?
Edit: I also just bought a Framemeister from eBay, will I need to buy a power adapter of some sort being that I live in the US?
Basically the scenario is I have all my consoles hooked up either by RF (Master system and Nes) or S-video, but my Sega CDX apparently never had an S-video cable made for it, so if it is to be part of the switch I have (which can only hold 6 things as is) then I have to find a solution to get it to work. I happened to have a small cable on hand where you can plug a yellow composite into a cord that then outputs S-video, but not only did this make all the pixels super chunky but it disabled the light gun from being able to do anything, so that didn't work.
I guess i'm looking for some solution outside of having to unlplug the cable from behind the tv when I want to use that system. Maybe some kind of switch that cuts off the signal of one or the other or some other solution?
Edit: I also just bought a Framemeister from eBay, will I need to buy a power adapter of some sort being that I live in the US?
NormalFish
Banned
The japanese adapter works perfectly fine. Some people have reported a slightly better experience with a high quality psu, but I don't think those claims are well substantiated.
goldenpp72
Member
Thanks, just trying to make sure I have as much equipment ready as possible when it arrives. So right now I am under the impression that of the systems I own, the NES, 3d0, atari 2600 and Turbografx do not support Scart. I'm not particularly concerned about Atari of course but, any way I can get the others taken care of?
Widescreen SD games from the sixth gen.
NormalFish
Banned
As outlined in that other post, NES is the only one I know of and it has a number of solutions. Check out THIS page. The mods tend to run quite pricey, though, and you're almost certainly going to want to hire a 'real' modder if you're not very confident in your soldering skill.
sixteen-bit
Member
Even 5th gen had a few; Nights into Dreams, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Goldeneye 007...
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