Earlier this year I got a Model 1 after hearing the differences in sound on youtube, tried it with my bookshelf speakers and was amazed at how it sounded!!!
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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IrishNinja
Member
what have i done
Nobody wants that junk. Just take it all to Goodwill. I hear they are a great charity.
RoryDropkick
Member
I got my Sync Strike in this evening... it's really neat to be able to capture such clean recordings! I did a test recording of Dracula XX on SFC and was pretty blown away by the quality 
Excellent, the Sync Strike is awesome and I prefer it to scart to component converters.I got my Sync Strike in this evening... it's really neat to be able to capture such clean recordings! I did a test recording of Dracula XX on SFC and was pretty blown away by the quality
Just came back from a trip to Japan, and picked up a good condition Super Famicom, an RGB cable (official Nintendo cable), and a Framemeister.
I was looking at the junkerhq link from the first post, and came across this:
"When first using the unit, you will need a suitable power adapter or step-down converter depending on your countries electricity supply and suitable cables to connect your games consoles to the unit."
Two questions:
- For the first part of that statement, do I need a separate power adapter? FYI I'm in Canada, and all the hardware being connected to the Framemeister will be Japanese hardware, but I've never had to do something to get the consoles themselves working.
- For the RGB cable setup, I've seen people talk about adapters and such, but if I'm using a Japanese Super Famicom RGB cable and a Super Famicom from Japan, am I good to go with just using the adapter included in the unit?
Thanks in advance!
I was looking at the junkerhq link from the first post, and came across this:
"When first using the unit, you will need a suitable power adapter or step-down converter depending on your countries electricity supply and suitable cables to connect your games consoles to the unit."
Two questions:
- For the first part of that statement, do I need a separate power adapter? FYI I'm in Canada, and all the hardware being connected to the Framemeister will be Japanese hardware, but I've never had to do something to get the consoles themselves working.
- For the RGB cable setup, I've seen people talk about adapters and such, but if I'm using a Japanese Super Famicom RGB cable and a Super Famicom from Japan, am I good to go with just using the adapter included in the unit?
Thanks in advance!
geniusbits
Member
You shouldn't need a power adapter if your Japanese consoles don't.
Your Japanese RGB cable will work with the FM converter yes, you might want to double check that it's called "JP21" though, but it's highly likely that it is.
This morning someone on eBay was selling a huge lot of quality CRT monitors for a mere $150. A bunch of small PVMs, Ikegamis, Panasonic's, a few 20inch sets including a 20M4U. Not surprisingly it was bought a couple of hours later. Bit weird. You typically see that sort of thing on liquidation sites, not eBay.
You probably need a new adapter. The SFC adapter expects 100v from the outlet, but US/Canada outlets provide 120v. According to some accounts this will very slowly cause your hardware to fail. Others say 120v is within its tolerance. I would play it safe and get a US Genesis 1 adapter (MK-1602).
You probably need a new adapter. The SFC adapter expects 100v from the outlet, but US/Canada outlets provide 120v. According to some accounts this will very slowly cause your hardware to fail. Others say 120v is within its tolerance. I would play it safe and get a US Genesis 1 adapter (MK-1602).
It's got some of the best sound output of any classic system.
I agree with that, dat bass!!!
Crystal clear tin-can FM synth...
Sorry Genny, but sound isn't always a strong point, not to say it can't be awesome.
IrishNinja
Member
D.Lo
Member
The right games on the right model console are awesome. Streets of Rage 1 is my favourite. Bold 80s style bass heavy stuff works great.
Unfortunately many games and many models of the console, not so much. Most MD2s have muffled, clipping sound and many games use the FM very badly, even sometimes good games have too much of the 'crunch' crap.
It basically has the best (non CD) sound and also the worst.
They're low-res textures stretched over polygons which creates a mess of big pixels in some games. Then the (bilinear?) filter blurs them to hell. I think some emulators let you disable this filter. Then you can really see how limited N64 textures were compared to PS1, Saturn, even the DS.
lol
first time i see this kind of comparison.
i had heard the N64's texture memory was paltry but never imagined this is what it would look like without the filtering.
no wonder they put that filter in place. the system would have definitely looked weaker than Ps1 and Saturn.
More like they used these textures because they knew it would be filtered. We don't know what an unfiltered-designed game would look like.
I cant go anywhere these days without this song popping up lol.
sixteen-bit
Member
It's ubiquitous, lol.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's because there's fucking liars everywhere.
Though the Genesis does sound like a robot in coitus.
blast processed
Member
Dare I ask what song this is?
So I just got my NES back RGB modded but:
I think the cable I have might not work correctly with the mod + my TV and the Scart to component adapter I have.
Maybe I need to get a Nintendo NES/Famicom 8 pin din stereo RGB SCART lead for NES RGB upgrade board because the Genesis 2 32X/CDX RGB SCART cable with boosted sync is displaying this:
Tried my other systems just to check to make sure my converter wasn't acting strange, so i'm thinking its the cable. I'm not using an upscaler or anything, and I know my TV should support the signal just fine (no issues with Saturn, SNES, Genesis, CMVS, PS1 over PS2 component).
EDIT: Even the Startech US 3.0 cap wont detect the signal, so yeah, i'm thinking its the cable.
I think the cable I have might not work correctly with the mod + my TV and the Scart to component adapter I have.
Maybe I need to get a Nintendo NES/Famicom 8 pin din stereo RGB SCART lead for NES RGB upgrade board because the Genesis 2 32X/CDX RGB SCART cable with boosted sync is displaying this:
Tried my other systems just to check to make sure my converter wasn't acting strange, so i'm thinking its the cable. I'm not using an upscaler or anything, and I know my TV should support the signal just fine (no issues with Saturn, SNES, Genesis, CMVS, PS1 over PS2 component).
EDIT: Even the Startech US 3.0 cap wont detect the signal, so yeah, i'm thinking its the cable.
Sony KD-36XS955 36-Inch FD Trinitron WEGA Hi-Scan TV with Integrated HDTV Tuner
I got this tv back in the day specifically for gaming. I even had my PC connected to it lol.
.....And I still have this big 300 pounder Sony Flat Glass HDTV CRT HDTV...I remember i paid 2000 grand for it back in 2002 or so..this was right before LCD flat screen HDTVs were affordable for good quality LCD. I went with this instead of a LCD simply because 4:6 ration was still the norm and this TV could do various aspect ratios.
This Sony 36 inch 4:6 ratio CRT tube had flat glass and was able to do 720p and 1080i @ 34 inches with jaw dropping picture quality. Not only that but this TV boosted extra lines of resolution as well which really made for a super detailed image. To this day, while i dont use it much, still has PQ that is hard to match and my current 55 inch Panasonic Plasma is given a run for its money .
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067AXYU/?tag=neogaf0e-20
This sucker weighs about 300lbs....it's upstairs in a spare bedroom. I would probably give it away for next to nothing if someone were to come and pick it up. I live in the Rockford, IL area...I had it on craigslist for 40 bucks but no takers yet. The TV was only used for two years..so its still mint with remote.
Man i still remember how bad ass the Original Xbox was on this Sony CRT...was simply mind blowing. I remember how the xbox version of Panzar Dragoon Orta looked on it.
I got this tv back in the day specifically for gaming. I even had my PC connected to it lol.
.....And I still have this big 300 pounder Sony Flat Glass HDTV CRT HDTV...I remember i paid 2000 grand for it back in 2002 or so..this was right before LCD flat screen HDTVs were affordable for good quality LCD. I went with this instead of a LCD simply because 4:6 ration was still the norm and this TV could do various aspect ratios.
This Sony 36 inch 4:6 ratio CRT tube had flat glass and was able to do 720p and 1080i @ 34 inches with jaw dropping picture quality. Not only that but this TV boosted extra lines of resolution as well which really made for a super detailed image. To this day, while i dont use it much, still has PQ that is hard to match and my current 55 inch Panasonic Plasma is given a run for its money .
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067AXYU/?tag=neogaf0e-20
This sucker weighs about 300lbs....it's upstairs in a spare bedroom. I would probably give it away for next to nothing if someone were to come and pick it up. I live in the Rockford, IL area...I had it on craigslist for 40 bucks but no takers yet. The TV was only used for two years..so its still mint with remote.
Man i still remember how bad ass the Original Xbox was on this Sony CRT...was simply mind blowing. I remember how the xbox version of Panzar Dragoon Orta looked on it.
SNES sound is more consistently okay-good but often sounds muffled/soft. At times it makes me wish I were listening to real instruments and CD-quality audio. The Genesis is its own unique beast that doesn't sound like it's trying to sound "real" while falling short. There are stinkers on the system but the best of the Genesis just blows you away unlike any SNES title. Star Fox's Corneria theme is one of those rare exceptions that rivals the Gen sound.
Overall I think few SNES soundtracks (FFVI, CT) from start to finish match up against the best of Genesis. Games like Revenge of Shinobi, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Streets of Rage 2, Phantasy Star IV destroy 99% of the SNES library and match the remaining top games.
Overall I think few SNES soundtracks (FFVI, CT) from start to finish match up against the best of Genesis. Games like Revenge of Shinobi, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Streets of Rage 2, Phantasy Star IV destroy 99% of the SNES library and match the remaining top games.
But then the turbo comes around and destroys them both with awesome CD soundtracks, yeah it's a cheat, but I don't care
Joking aside...The Turbo/PCE can actually pump out some nice chippy sound too, aka:Ninja Spirit.
sixteen-bit
Member
Some SNES samples are so awful. LTTP overworld themes sounds like it's coming from a kazoo.
D.Lo
Member
Dat Super Metroid Soundtrack tho. And Chrono Trigger, Axelay, DKC, Goemon series, Castlevania IV (and Drac XX), Contra Spirits, Earthworm Jim 2, Star Fox...
Both could do great music if used well. The reason MD has a bad rep is that:
a) Many models of the console, likely well over half of those sold, sound like shit for all games.
b) When it was used poorly, MD could sound as bad as it gets. Crunching nasty noise.
Unless the actual samples were out of tune (which did happen), Super Nintendo at worst sounds bland and wimpy.
Both could do great music if used well. The reason MD has a bad rep is that:
a) Many models of the console, likely well over half of those sold, sound like shit for all games.
b) When it was used poorly, MD could sound as bad as it gets. Crunching nasty noise.
Unless the actual samples were out of tune (which did happen), Super Nintendo at worst sounds bland and wimpy.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
This so much just compare the console TMNT games. Back in the day Konami was the king of video game OSTs no matter the hardware.
Here's the Genesis version which is decent and perfectly serviceable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5WFH3eeKlI&index=11&list=PL4AB369787487EC46
Then here's the SNES version which is far more lively and full of energy and markedly greater improvement over the Genesis version in every way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu-7jOHLq2E
When it came to multi plat games 8 times out of 10, I preferred the SNES soundtrack.
Pretty much anything from the USA was guaranteed to sound like corny shit on the SNES, sometimes because the game itself was a Genesis port. Japanese music, on the other hand...
Anyway, is there a detailed explanation somewhere of sound quality and SNES models?
Anyway, is there a detailed explanation somewhere of sound quality and SNES models?
D.Lo
Member
Just like the NES, many western games on the NES used that awful Commodore 64 'warble' sound. And then on SNES many EU programmers came from Amiga backgrounds (which was much more similar to the Mega Drive), so the weaknesses of that platform were ported too. Western MD games were most likely to sound like turds on MD too.
Basically, Nintendo, Sega, or anyone else, Japan were the kings,
BONKERS
Member
EXACTLY, it was how it was designed and intended to work.
Removing it just a bit daft.
Also: The SNES sounds better than the Genesis? ahahahahah thanks for the laugh.
FM for life. Especially that TMNT example, the MD sounds way better with more character. The SNES version just sounds like a mangled ugly mess of badly interpolated sound samples with quality on par with soundfonts and GMidi.
But really, both sound just fine for the most part.
I enjoy both a lot even if I prefer FM vastly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9xRPvHICAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhPSonNiMJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psSamm93uCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_IJYc9t3vQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0nNpSgzWW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uPn-0MkiLA
What chip does it have?
Shadow Hog
Member
Mildly annoyed. Saw a listing for a free Toshiba 36HF71 in my area on Craigslist. A few days old, but I gambled anyway and e-mailed the person asking if it was still available. No response saying either way, but I noticed tonight that the listing is no longer up. Could've just said "ah, sorry, I already gave it away to somebody else"...!
Still, a 212lb TV that supports 480i/480p/1080i was probably not what I wanted. I was kinda wary of it, thinking it might not work with, say, the NES Zapper (I've heard those CRTs that support HD resolutions like that are very hit-or-miss with lightguns), and wouldn't really have anywhere to put a TV so large anyway...
Although, it means I'm back to square one in trying to figure out what kind of CRT I'd like to put in there. :E
Still, a 212lb TV that supports 480i/480p/1080i was probably not what I wanted. I was kinda wary of it, thinking it might not work with, say, the NES Zapper (I've heard those CRTs that support HD resolutions like that are very hit-or-miss with lightguns), and wouldn't really have anywhere to put a TV so large anyway...
Although, it means I'm back to square one in trying to figure out what kind of CRT I'd like to put in there. :E
I prefer the Genesis sound from those two examples. It's way cleaner and more pleasant to my ears.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I think that most of the best games on the SNES were better orchestrated and sound more complex, whereas MegaDrive ones had dat classic Sega punch.
sixteen-bit
Member
Konami logo jingle sounds better on Genesis too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKIcsLw7V4I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvpQKY0Ly4
D.Lo
Member
RE: Turtles, You can't trust youtube for sound quality. That SNES example is clipping, and the Mega Drive one is emulated (SNES maybe too, hard to tell in that mess).
I just popped them both on to compare in real life in pretty much ideal circumstances, (VA1 AV Terminal Mega Drive, Super Famicom Jr, to Pioneer amp with quality floor speakers).
Music is marginally clearer in the MD game, but it's overall a worse audio presentation, due to the overall mix including sound effects.
The SNES game uses the bass-space for sound effects, so hits on enemies (and the wrecking balls dropping in stage 1) are huge and meaty sounding. On MD the hits are wiffy little crunch sounds, that sit in the same space as the drums and get lost. And of course the speech samples sound like turd on MD, but are quite good on the SNES.
Overall the SNES game just sounds much fuller. Larger sprites on the MD though, and lower colour suits the game, looks more arcadey.
It's only one game, it doesn't prove anything, except that youtube audio doesn't prove anything
This has been done a million times, they're very different sound chips, and while it's a fact the SNES sound chip is vastly more advanced and flexible, in the end it's game by game because music is art.
Trivia: SNES version has a pink line, PCE version a blue line, MD a green line. SNES version was the 'real' one, as it was used as an animated logo made of an LED array on top of the Konami building in Tokyo in the 90s.
I just popped them both on to compare in real life in pretty much ideal circumstances, (VA1 AV Terminal Mega Drive, Super Famicom Jr, to Pioneer amp with quality floor speakers).
Music is marginally clearer in the MD game, but it's overall a worse audio presentation, due to the overall mix including sound effects.
The SNES game uses the bass-space for sound effects, so hits on enemies (and the wrecking balls dropping in stage 1) are huge and meaty sounding. On MD the hits are wiffy little crunch sounds, that sit in the same space as the drums and get lost. And of course the speech samples sound like turd on MD, but are quite good on the SNES.
Overall the SNES game just sounds much fuller. Larger sprites on the MD though, and lower colour suits the game, looks more arcadey.
It's only one game, it doesn't prove anything, except that youtube audio doesn't prove anything
This has been done a million times, they're very different sound chips, and while it's a fact the SNES sound chip is vastly more advanced and flexible, in the end it's game by game because music is art.
As a Konami fanatic, I'd listened to the SNES one hundreds of times for at least three years when the first Konami MD games showed up. And to me it sounded like a lo-fi clone, which it is, it's a 'port' of a jingle that was developed on the SNES first.
Trivia: SNES version has a pink line, PCE version a blue line, MD a green line. SNES version was the 'real' one, as it was used as an animated logo made of an LED array on top of the Konami building in Tokyo in the 90s.
Well, I got my PVM-20M4E. The picture quality is just as sharp and colorful as expected. My old CRT had real high contrast by default so a more subtle contrast (yet still colorful) works just fine. Can't wait to see what AV Famicom games look on it once I get the appropriate BNC-RCA adapter plugs.
Please excuse shitty phone camera pics. Don't have a "real" camera right now, but I guess I gotta get a nice DSLR...
Please excuse shitty phone camera pics. Don't have a "real" camera right now, but I guess I gotta get a nice DSLR...
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Am I wrong to think that emulated music always sounds terrible?
sixteen-bit
Member
Looking good. Consider getting the Famicom RGB modded though!
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
This shouldn't be up to debate, really.
It is my other wish, but I don't know anyone here who could do a mod like that, and if I request such a mod from Baphomet, I'll be paying for shipping enough to get myself in debt. But we'll see.
From:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...-good-Genesis-1s-and-Genesis-2s-from-bad-ones
Video(describes composite quality since RGB is the same on all):
Audio:
Basically, early Genesis 1s v6.8 and earlier and late Genesis 2s v3 and later are the ones to get.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
What's up with the criticism regarding emulated music? I certainly don't recall any major differences between any modern Megadrive emus and the old cartridges.
Are my ears broken or what?
Are my ears broken or what?
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