If all Dreamcast S-video cables are crap (from what I'm reading) and a VGA box is out of reach price-wise, stick to composite until you save up for the box. For what it's worth I thought Dreamcast composite was remarkably good on a PVM. It was more like N64 S-video than the painful Genesis composite that makes you wanna rip your eyes out.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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As for svideo, it's typically best to go with one that doesn't have composite with it, like this one.
Is it know (technically) why composite on the Genesis is that bad? Does anyone
has dissected the hardware showing the cause? I would be interested in this.
Are there some schematics of the Genesis showing the composite video signal
generator with all its filters etc.?
Its alot a good bit clearer than the original cable I had from Racketboy long ago (that came with a composite yellow plug on it as well).
Was kinda pricey for a cable at 25 bucks though... was from hit-japan.
Model is HKT-8000.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Assuming this is a legit listing, it's $35 plus $15 shipping...ouch.
At that point it'd probably be easier for me to pick up a VGA box and S-Video cable for that same price point and then flip my existing VGA cord onto eBay to try to get a few bucks back on it.
At that point it'd probably be easier for me to pick up a VGA box and S-Video cable for that same price point and then flip my existing VGA cord onto eBay to try to get a few bucks back on it.
Ah that's good to hear.
Looks legit to me, but the VGA box with svideo cable is another option. BTW the VGA box I linked didn't include a svideo cable though any svideo cable works with it, I had a spare lying around my house as well.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
New Orleans.
(Well, outside of New Orleans, but it's just easier to say "New Orleans")
elmalloc
Member
If you want to talk pricey, Gamecube component cable is $250 - lol. Waiting on GC-Video HDMI mod...
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Sent a second message to the seller of the JVC video monitor on eBay. Hoping to hear back from him soon as I'd really like it but I'd also like to avoid paying the shipping cost if I don't have to.
For anyone here who wants to pick them up in the NYC area, still offering:
PVM-20M4U for $50
BVM-20G1U for $100
Both in solid condition. If you're not fit, bring someone to help take it out of my apartment and down three floors! I was going to list them on ebay a while ago but feeling lazy.
PVM-20M4U for $50
BVM-20G1U for $100
Both in solid condition. If you're not fit, bring someone to help take it out of my apartment and down three floors! I was going to list them on ebay a while ago but feeling lazy.
For anyone here who wants to pick them up in the NYC area, still offering:
PVM-20M4U for $50
BVM-20G1U for $100
Both in solid condition. If you're not fit, bring someone to help take it out of my apartment and down three floors! I was going to list them on ebay a while ago but feeling lazy.
Wow! Wish I was up there.
theSlacker
Member
Thanks a lot. Ordered one of those cables. Surprised there isn't more interest around the Xbox here in general.
New Orleans.
Ahh that's pretty far away from me hehe.
I don't know the technical reasons behind it, but I looked around and found some possibly enlightening posts on the Atari Age forums.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243240-why-is-the-composite-video-so-crappy-on-sega-consoles/
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/70376-composite-output-comparisons-modelrevision/
What does that last one mean? The RF signal is pulled from the composite chip which causes a decrease in overall quality?
Someone in one of those threads noted that running a Genesis emulator on another device and then using a composite converter box gave much better quality than the default Genesis composite. I guess that verifies Sega sourced garbage chips but doesn't quite explain why they are so bad.
elmalloc
Member
Ebay frustrates me and I'm impatient. I bought a Genesis 1 from someone on ebay on Friday, 1 day "handling" and priority mail expedited shipping and it hasn't shipped yet. So i sent them an email just asking why it hasn't shipped yet.
I don't know why I get so impatient, to me it's more about your word, I paid for a product and you're not meeting expectations, don't set the expectations then - I don't give negatives on ebay, but I do send slightly rude emails and no feedback at all.
What I found out was, that seemingly many sellers on ebay don't know, is on holidays, packages do move. They just don't deliver. e.g. on MLK we didn't get mail, but a package I dropped off at the self service station moved states. Many sellers used MLK day as an excuse to not ship saying the USPS doesn't delivery on Sunday or on holidays, but they absolutely move packages via their shipping companies.
It is frustrating to me to buy from a highly rated seller whose handling time is nowhere near Amazon's - amazon has spoiled us. But I do try to get my packages out the same day as payment.
Another dude was supposed to ship me some SNES manuals, and he didn't/forgot after a week, no big deal who cares about manuals - but he apologized profusely for the long handling delay, but then shipped them out first class. Lol if he cared that much he would have sent them priority! I told him that. I think some of my jokes don't get communicated well online, but it was a half joke and half poke.
I don't know why I get so impatient, to me it's more about your word, I paid for a product and you're not meeting expectations, don't set the expectations then - I don't give negatives on ebay, but I do send slightly rude emails and no feedback at all.
What I found out was, that seemingly many sellers on ebay don't know, is on holidays, packages do move. They just don't deliver. e.g. on MLK we didn't get mail, but a package I dropped off at the self service station moved states. Many sellers used MLK day as an excuse to not ship saying the USPS doesn't delivery on Sunday or on holidays, but they absolutely move packages via their shipping companies.
It is frustrating to me to buy from a highly rated seller whose handling time is nowhere near Amazon's - amazon has spoiled us. But I do try to get my packages out the same day as payment.
Another dude was supposed to ship me some SNES manuals, and he didn't/forgot after a week, no big deal who cares about manuals - but he apologized profusely for the long handling delay, but then shipped them out first class. Lol if he cared that much he would have sent them priority! I told him that. I think some of my jokes don't get communicated well online, but it was a half joke and half poke.
I'd have more interest myself if OG Xbox wasn't such a faulty piece of hardware. My Xbox feels like it may start a fire with its loose ac port and I have idea how to transfer some of my data to a different system.
One day, I'll bring it to a shop to have it repaired. But yea, it's totally underrated even amongst hardcore gamers. The library is impeccable.
Yep, that's how it is for me as well.
Definitely, I always loved the OG Xbox. Though I agree about the hardware issues, definitely when it comes to the DVD drive.
elmalloc
Member
Xbox doesn't feel retro enough for me. In fact exiting the 240p realm, I feel like is not as much retro anymore.
Getting into retro the past couple months, I get pinged a lot with questions on "why don't you just emulate it and use a knock off USB controller?". I go in depth on why playing games as a purist is the best option, but after re-reading what I write, I feel like I'm kind of crazy.
I belive it to be true, every retro gamer has some craziness inside them.
Getting into retro the past couple months, I get pinged a lot with questions on "why don't you just emulate it and use a knock off USB controller?". I go in depth on why playing games as a purist is the best option, but after re-reading what I write, I feel like I'm kind of crazy.
I belive it to be true, every retro gamer has some craziness inside them.
Nah... it's very simple... you do what you do because it's fun.
Emulation never feels the same. And that needs to be said, really. You don't need to defend it.
Plus, there's something very baller about having all OG hardware. Most people respect it when they see my collection - guys and girls included.
"Emulation isn't good enough".
In many cases I prefer the original hardware to avoid emulation issues.
D.Lo
Member
Retro gaming.
It's like a slightly more legitimate version of listening to music on vinyl, or reading a vintage book. Or playing a very nice guitar on a vintage (or vintage design) valve amp.
It's less convenient, but a luxury experience. It's the premium version. It's a real period experience.
If I'm going to spend 10-20 hours playing something, I'm not going to compromise.
It's like a slightly more legitimate version of listening to music on vinyl, or reading a vintage book. Or playing a very nice guitar on a vintage (or vintage design) valve amp.
It's less convenient, but a luxury experience. It's the premium version. It's a real period experience.
If I'm going to spend 10-20 hours playing something, I'm not going to compromise.
NormalFish
Banned
rofl
well guys, the Xbox and Gamecube released about 14 years ago.
in 2001, the consoles from 14 years prior to that year were NES and Master System and were seen as retro already.
the GC/PS2/Xbox gen is already retro territory. if it wasn't for the PS3/360/Wii gen being so damn long, we'd be on PS5 soon.
in 2001, the consoles from 14 years prior to that year were NES and Master System and were seen as retro already.
the GC/PS2/Xbox gen is already retro territory. if it wasn't for the PS3/360/Wii gen being so damn long, we'd be on PS5 soon.
we're just too old lol.
Personally, I would find XBOX AV conversation to be an interesting topic. The GameCube, Dreamcast, and PS2 have been discussed at length in here. Xbox is fair game. I asked before in the dedicated Xbox thread about the differences in revisions but it fell on def ears.
Yeah, I feel the same way. Xbox has a decent amount of good/great exclusives and lots of superior multiplatform ports. For whatever reason though the console isn't talked about a lot in the retro community, even compared to its contemporaries.
baphomet
Member
Your package wouldn't ship until today (Tuesday), technically as late as tomorrow. Weekends aren't business days and yesterday there is no mail pickup.
My DVD drive gave up a few weeks ago. Wont read any discs now >_< So either I attempt to fix it, or just grab another at a thrift store...
EDIT:
Borman = X-Man.
Feels like it might come up less too because there's less to talk about for setup. Most titles run progressive and it's relatively easy to find component cables of a decent quality.
I think it should be brought up more though! I've seen some 720p hacks for games and such. Would be interesting to discuss.
I think it should be brought up more though! I've seen some 720p hacks for games and such. Would be interesting to discuss.
I'm thinking it would be nice to consolidate all console AV information in here in a neat list.
Example:
[Console Name] - Region X - Revision Y
Color bit rate/maximum colors: XX bits / XXX colors
Output Port A
Video output: Component YPbPr, 15 pin D-sub RGB, Composite; XX Hz
Audio: 2 Chanel Stereo; XX.xx kHz
Output Port B
Video Output: UHF
Audio: Mono
IDK, maybe I'm fucking crazy.
Would be good for the OP I think.
D.Lo
Member
OG Xbox is the first console of the modern paradigm. Its key games - Halo, Splinter Cell, Elder Scrolls etc - these are what are the main game types today.
GC and PS2 are also similar, but I think have lots of the quirky Japanese vibe from earlier Japanese consoles left, at least in a higher percentage of top games. DC to an even greater extent. And those are the types of games that appeal to retro-fans. I remember Katamari and Viewtiful Joe, not Need for Speed Underground (despite the latter being the higher seller). Xbox has some of these quirky too, but not as many (and of course the GCN has Nintendo who even today make more 'retro' games then almost everyone except indies). But GC and PS2 don't feel too retro to me either for a similar reason.
Microsoft didn't make any money, but with their spending they did manage to push change of what a console is - a western-focused PC in a box type thing. The PS4 is more a 'latest' Xbox style console than a new PS1 IMO.
Maybe I'm just a Japanese fetishist though.
GC and PS2 are also similar, but I think have lots of the quirky Japanese vibe from earlier Japanese consoles left, at least in a higher percentage of top games. DC to an even greater extent. And those are the types of games that appeal to retro-fans. I remember Katamari and Viewtiful Joe, not Need for Speed Underground (despite the latter being the higher seller). Xbox has some of these quirky too, but not as many (and of course the GCN has Nintendo who even today make more 'retro' games then almost everyone except indies). But GC and PS2 don't feel too retro to me either for a similar reason.
Microsoft didn't make any money, but with their spending they did manage to push change of what a console is - a western-focused PC in a box type thing. The PS4 is more a 'latest' Xbox style console than a new PS1 IMO.
Maybe I'm just a Japanese fetishist though.
baphomet
Member
Op is already max character count I believe.
I know, right? It can get too long to fit in one post perhaps, but if necessary there can be several normal posts throughout the thread that can be linked in the OP.
Edit:
Oh, damn. I forgot. There wouldn't even be room for links.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Starting to veer off topic but I would actually kinda like a PS3/360 retro thread. I've been buying stuff up lately since it's cheap, especially with PSN sales. It'd be nice to have a place to talk about this stuff without immediate "LOL 30FPS 720p is literally unacceptable, jaggy blurry barf, where's my PS4 remaster???!??!?!!!!" garbage that goes on everywhere else on GAF.
I was thinking that since there are so many nearly identical cross platform releases, having PS3 and 360 in the same topic would even make a lot of sense. Like "HD Twins Collecting & Discussion Thread."
I love owning an OG Japanese Xbox, for Metal Wolf Chaos alone. I recommend it to anyone who is a FromSoftware fan. That game is a showpiece and so retro in nature. A true division of graphical power and arcady gameplay. Otogi 1 and 2 is great by them as well. Some Xbox games actually ran 720p which I didn't really know until recently. But yeah agreed with the OG Xbox, thing is a beast even today but it's crazy that it's also basically retro now.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I guess I understand what it's like to be a true, non-hipster vinyl user.
Because my retrogaming is 0% affectation and 0% fetish. It has nothing to do with "the idea of" classic gaming.
It's because playing on OG hardware feels right in my bones. Everything is in its right place. And if I'm playing emulated, there are warning signals going off all the over the place "this isn't how it's supposed to be".
It reminds me of Malcom Gladwell's Blink, the idea that, in an instant, a real expert in a particular field can immediately get the gist of his subject in one glance. If you grew up on these classic consoles, you are that expert, and you know when something's right, and when something's just a little off....
I'm glad we can have a thread where truths like this can be stated so plainly. The console warriors elsewhere would be fuming if we spoke so boldly. MS definitely won at most drastically changing the gaming landscape in their image.
I agree that PS2 and GC are retro consoles, obviously not in the same sense as Genesis or NES. But it has been long enough. SNES was retro before its own decade ended. I can understand the ambivalence towards Xbox. It has its share of good games but it is essentially a 00s PC Box. There's so much cool shit to hunt down and play on the other two consoles, whereas Xbox is AAA franchises that are more or less still around in some form, whether sequels, spinoffs, remasters or spiritual successors. I think you could dive into Steam today, look up some older titles and get practically the same Xbox library experience but in higher fidelity.
While we're chatting about whatever, I missed the discussion on the Saturn 4k screenshot thread. I had a look through it the other day. Absolutely hideous with little to no redeemable quality. Barf.
Didn't a lot of PS3/360 games run internally at sub-720p? I saw a big list once and a bunch were close to Wii resolution. "The HD Era"...More like... sub-HD Twins! Pffffffffffft
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
People always say this... especially when the topic of why there is no Xbox emulation comes up "but everything's already on PC"..
But for me the raison d'être for OG Xbox is stuff like the "Dreamcast 2" style lineup of exclusive Sega games, or Team Ninja exclusives, etc. There is plenty of very console (and very Japanese!) stuff on it.
It certainly was called the "PC port box" in its day, though, so it's not off base. It's just that there are so many reasons that machine is great besides western PC style games.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, the Xbox is still a pretty well kept secret, even among people who are into old school games. Everyone knows Ninja Gaiden, but then you dig a little deeper and find stuff like Outrun 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Otogi 1 + 2, JSRF, Phantom Dust, Spikeout, Gunvalkyrie, Genma Onimusha, etc. There's some really, really excellent stuff on there.
The Xbox had a lot of crappy PC ports, and that's still what the IGNs and Gamespots will relay as the highlight of the system... but anyone who knows better will tell you that those weren't what made the system good.
I was busting sheep's chops, but yeah, it's true. Heck, a lot of games couldn't even manage 720p. Opting for weird internal resolutions between 500 - 700 lines. That was a bigger issue on the PS3 though for multiplat games.
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Getting back on Xbox talk. I found a pretty comprehensive post on racket boy that covers among many other things how to identify revisions.
However, it doesn't really answer which one is "best" for AV quality.
Holy shit, yes, so many of them, here's the list.
When I take screenshots of them at 720p I notice how blurry there were compared to 720p(and higher) games.
D.Lo
Member
I'd argue that's fetishism.
But I don't think it's a bad thing. It's like having nice speakers or headphones or a nice screen - you care about the content enough to want the perfect presentation. It's called being a serious fan (like audiophiles, or cinemaphiles who like to watch on real film).
The physical practical element is part of the experience (like vinyl), but unlike vinyl, playing on original hardware is actually the 'perfect' reproduction, not just an older tech compromise. Vinyl isn't the highest quality audio, though records were produced with its limitations in mind, so in a sense it is the most accurate. But a real Super Famicom is the only 100% perfect as-intended by the designers way to play Super Metroid.
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