speedlolita
Member
Edit: Nevermind, thought you meant R.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Edit: Nevermind, thought you meant R.
Thanks, that got me in. Still unsure why it's only picking up in black & white.
The status menu shows it in B/W mode but unless I'm passing over it there doesn't seem to be an option to make it switch. Is it possible s-video is only B/W for some reason?
The 144QM is getting colour on s-video but using the same cables and consoles we're not getting colour on the pvm-14M4E or pvm-1450QM. We've tried both a PAL & NTSC console.
Both are EU monitors as far as I know. I assume it should auto switch between 50/60hz, correct? We only have s-video to test for now so it might have to wait until we have some BNC connectors but it's just strange that one of them works correctly with s-video while the other two don't.
Both are EU monitors as far as I know. I assume it should auto switch between 50/60hz, correct? We only have s-video to test for now so it might have to wait until we have some BNC connectors but it's just strange that one of them works correctly with s-video while the other two don't.
Here's a handy list;
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=repair:pcepowersupplies
Check the polarity!
Might seem obvious but did you check chroma levels? If it's turned all the way down, you get a b&w picture. I think PVMs have both a chroma dial and an settings menu config to determine the default value for the dial's center position. The latter may be a BVM-only feature so disregard if it doesn't apply.
Check that the correct input has been set in the front-left buttons of the control panel. For the 20M4, the C/SDI button should be lit and Line/RGB and Ext Sync unlit.
I'm a hazy on your exact menu options, but there might also be a NTSC setting that affects color. This is a newer PVM's menu but you can see it here:
Shin Johnpv
Member
Thanks for the link!
*edit* Seems like a power supply for a PCE Duo and Turbo duo are rare and expensive. : (
Yeah we had checked all the levels like chroma etc etc. in the status menu it says that it was specifically in B/W mode. I spent some time looking through the service manuals but couldn't find anything that led me to resolving it.
We're getting a scart > BNC cable in and we'll tackle it again once it arrives. Hopefully we'll be able to resolve it then.
Appreciate the help, thanks.
Are you strictly looking for original supplies? If not, check them out: http://en.retrogamesupply.com/collections/pc-engine
I recently bought a 2-in-1 power supply for my Japanese Mega Drive 2 + Mega-CD 2 - just to clean up some clutter, due to the the original bricks and their stepdown converters - and it works like a charm. It's not a design item by any means, but if you look for convenience and performance, go for it.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Can anyone recommend quality cables for the ol' SNES/N64 multi-AV out? I recently discovered the cables I have are somehow s-video only and I'll likely be needing composite in the near future.
elmalloc
Member
S-video is better than composite.
Secondly, why don't you get into RGB gaming? RGB is superior, but you may need to modify your SNES/N64. The difference between RGB and Composite is jarring and does your retro console justice.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
The TV I'm looking at picking up doesn't have a s-video connection.
I'm also not quite savvy enough with a soldering iron to attempt any of the RGB mods.
Came across this Toshiba HD CRT at Goodwill. Wish I had a place to put it because it's probably got a damn good picture.
NormalFish
Banned
the N64 mod is piss easy. most SNES don't need modding for RGB.
Honestly s video -> composite is a massive downgrade. cannot recommend.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
The TV I'm picking up doesn't have S-Video, so I'll need a composite cable.
NormalFish
Banned
Why pick up a TV with composite as the best video option?
Pardon the bluntness, but I just don't see how you come in to a thread all about high quality video from old consoles and end up downgrading your set up.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Because I'm looking for a small TV around 15 inches and the majority of them at that size only have composite input.
All I asked is for a recommendation on AV cables and this turned into some sort of attack on how I choose to play videogames.
It probably hasn't. Sorry for that, but Composite is composite, even on the best CRT ever it will look like shit and not different from the worst CRT ever.
Sorry for the assist but yeah, he's right. However I would say not to care about S-Video and instead try to find one with Component, but not 480p (EDTV or HDTV). Your continent got a lot of them and the picture quality is as good as RGB with the proper yet cheap equipment. You can find them in all sizes.
As for quality Composite cables, it's easy, they're all the same quality. Composite is a very tough signal to degrade and a shit $5 cable will be as good as a shielded golden audiophile scam. With RGB, cable quality matters. With Composite, it doesn't.
Because the signal is shit to begin with.
Where are you located and what is your budget? There are fantastic deals on ebay.
A composite only TV is really not worth it, even at free. A few consoles have good composite but you need to pair that with a good monitor with comb filter (PVM). It's really hard to look at after years of HD games and television. It may turn you off from playing. I could not stand Genesis composite on a PVM for more than a few minutes and that's a really good display. After getting an RGB cable it was a delight and I spent hours playing it.
Oh yeah, that reminds me, I still need to do my composite vs RGB comparison for Genesis games.
elmalloc
Member
I just bought a Sega Genesis Model 1 from Ebay.
Happy to see what that console was all about, my first game will be Sonic and Aladdin - the cell shaded graphics on youtube for that game look superior compared to the SNES version.
Retro Console Accessories on Ebay has no Genesis cables for sale.
Should I be using a composite video + sync or CSYNC SCART cable to the XRGB Mini?
Thanks!
Happy to see what that console was all about, my first game will be Sonic and Aladdin - the cell shaded graphics on youtube for that game look superior compared to the SNES version.
Retro Console Accessories on Ebay has no Genesis cables for sale.
Should I be using a composite video + sync or CSYNC SCART cable to the XRGB Mini?
Thanks!
speedlolita
Member
Mega Drive
Shin Johnpv
Member
Ohh wow I did not know of this site and I googled hard for something like this. I ended up finding a used one on Ebay for 40 bucks shipped. That would have been less.
elmalloc
Member
Not sure what you mean. I bought a Genesis Model 1. I can't tell which SCART cable to get, retro console accessories on ebay only offers SNES cables now and that's it - not sure what she's up to, lol. She used to supply a Genesis SCART CSYNC with amplification. This stuff is kind of confusing...it doesn't seem like the Genesis Model 1 supports CSYNC out of the box.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I use CSYNC Scart cables for my genesis. I know people are big fans of Retro Console Accessories here, but I ended up buying all my cables from https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk and they've been great. Shipping might get you but I bought like 4 or 5 different cables at once to make it worth it.
elmalloc
Member
Thanks! I ordered my SNES cables from them, it took almost 3 weeks. That's OK, the SNES will keep me busy while I wait for the Genesis and PS1 cables.
I'm still confused though.
For Genesis, according to retroRGB.com, we need to modify it in order to support CSYNC. Did you modify yours?
Secondly, if you happen to know, the PS1 should be using sync on LUMA:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...on-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead-rca-sound
But I don't know if that's compatible with the XRGB Mini, I'm tempted to buy the CSYNC version of the cable that has a built in video sync seperator. Most information says to use LUMA sync with PS1 though.
Retro Console Accessories has only 1 item for sale, I don't see a reason to be a fan with that type of stock, lol.
Thanks!
NormalFish
Banned
elmalloc
Member
Thanks - OK, will I need to buy another/different adapter for the mini?
Right now I have the EuroSCART to Framemeister XRGB mini passive adapter cable.
Why would one choose the CSYNC (built in video sync separator) SCART cable that they offer (vs. the Luma)?
Thanks!
NormalFish
Banned
i would fully expect your adapter to work. it would be odd if it didn't.
The PS1/PS2 doesn't natively offer pure/composite sync. I'm assuming that cable is a sync on composite video cable. Honestly don't see any reason to ever use one. With the mini it'll definitely give you a checkerboard pattern.
elmalloc
Member
Thanks!!
OK to wrap it up, I'll order a Genesis SCART CSYNC cable, and a PS1 Sync on Luma cable. It looks like I need to mod the Genesis to support CSYNC though, if you happen to know please let me know! At least I'll have the right cables, lol.
Really?
I'm not sure if you need to mod yours to do it, though I'm guessing it depends on the cable. Heck I believe my scart cable for my Genesis Model 1 is composite sync as the GBS 8200 I have only accepts cysnc, composite video as sync has issues with the picture breaking apart. I read that Genesis has sync issues with composite video as sync. I know mine is for my Saturn as I asked for csync.
elmalloc
Member
This page describing csync (for Genesis in particular) confuses me:
http://retrorgb.com/csync.html
I wonder if the retro gaming cables UK gets sync from "pin 1". I'm guessing not, as that cable they sell is not specific to the Genesis Model 1 vs 2 or 3? I did send them an email about all that.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Yes it is. Besides the fact that a Model 1 Genesis and a Model 2 have different dins so one cable wouldn't even fit into both of them.
I don't have my model 1 connected. I have a model 2 that was made in japan and has the shorter rf shielding, so it outputs proper audio. There's no need to mod that and from what I've seen there's really no need to mod the Genesis 1 either.
If you have a model 1 genesis I would get this cable
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...a-genesis-1-stereo-rgb-av-scart-cable-tv-lead
and this is the one I got for my Genesis model 2 https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...e-2-sega-genesis-2-rgb-av-scart-cable-tv-lead I got the csync version.
Shipping is a bit slow from the UK, took about 9 days for me to get my cables. They were pretty good too the Saturn ones I ordered were defective and they just simply mailed me out new cables.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Huh, I thought HD CRTs were pretty well regarded. It had HDMI on it and everything, which surprised the hell out of me.
Anywho, I'm not buying a CRT from eBay because the prices are ridiculous, especially due to shipping.
In addition, my incoming Famicom only does composite.
NormalFish
Banned
a lot of HD CRTs do the same sort of garbage processing that HD LCDs do, unfortunately.
I'm sure their drivers are fine for that capture card.
good to know.
meanwhile...
my PC can't record 1080p at 60 fps
my old card couldn't go that high so i never tried but this one showed me that i need a new PC to fully take advantage of the card.
i wonder if the PEXHDCAP can downscale video...
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I live near New Orleans. I wouldn't want to pay any more than $50.
I don't plan on rgb modding any of my hardware, so that's not a big deal, but if you can reccomend a 13" to 20" CRT TV to get that would be awesome.
It's about versatility and keeping your options open. Will that be your only retro console? It's not a good plan to go for a limited TV with one bad connection type if you plan on expanding your systems owned. SNES, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast and PS1/PS2 are RGB capable without any mod. RGB modded N64 sells for as little as $50. Wii, Gamecube and PS2 have component. GC's cable is crazy expensive but you can play all the games on the Wii instead. DC also has VGA.
Even if you're on a tight budget and can't get the somewhat pricey RGB cables, you can get cheap S-video and cheap component cables (Wii, PS2) for your entire setup. Genesis is the exception without S-video, only composite and RGB. The composite is so bad and the RGB is so good that this should be the one exception to make and spend the extra for the RGB cable.
In a nutshell, almost all the major consoles have better-than-composite connections out of the box and you won't pay much for it after investing on a better display.
What are you willing to spend altogether for a monitor? Not everything on eBay is expensive. edit: just saw your post above. Figured you were from New Orleans with that name. I'll PM you.
Aw man, wish I read your post earlier! That said, keep them in mind for the next time, so far they are a solid 10/10 to me.
elmalloc
Member
Thanks for the help with the Genesis cable, everyone!
I'm still confused on the PS1 cable, though.
If I get a Sync on Luma PS1 cable, it seems like I need to get a powered sync stripper for the SCART to XRGB Mini end. Is this true? I currently have a passive adapter from SCART to XRGB Mini.
RetroConsole UK offers a CSYNC cable for the PS1 that has the stripper inside the cable (and is powered by the PS1). It seems like I should get that if I want to continue to use the passive SCART to XRGB Mini adapter I currently have, but every article says to use Sync on Luma for PS1 RGB.
What sync would you choose from here? Thanks!
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...on-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead-rca-sound
Why is this topic ridiculously confusing to me?
EDIT: After a lot of reading, I just went with the Sync on Luma PS1 cable. We'll see how all that shakes out in a month or so after I get the cable and a PSOne/game to test it with! Thanks.
Sure, problems do increase with bandwidth, but cables for composite video
needs proper shielding, termination, length consideration etc. as well to
prevent ghosting, shadows, or streaks in the picture.
Anyhow, I want to shine a different light on composite video to dump down the
haterage to some degree.
Well, composite isn't shit to begin with. Of course, if you have Y/C or RGB out of your console, that's fine, no question
about it. But speaking about composite video as a format is a different story.
Actually it's a really clever (non-trivial) design on its own and it has its
place in video for some very good reasons. For, composite video is pretty much
optimal when it comes to the amount of wires and bandwidth used regarding the
transmission of pictorial information to be displaying on a screen. There was
a reason why it was used so much in all of video. Tansmitting raw RGB in just
one wire and with the same total bandwidth of standard composite video (NTSC/
PAL) would look very bad. The first attempts of an all electronic color TV by
the RCA have used sort of an RGB approach to reproduce colors transmitted over
a wire with the signal being limited to about 4MHz bandwidth. The overall
quality wasn't good, which is why the NTSC committee wasn't eager to accept it
as teh color standard (replacing the mechanical color systems standardized a
few months earlier). It wasn't until an engineer of the Hazeltine Corporation
(iirc) has put all the phenomenological aspects of color and signal
transmission limits together to produce what's today known as composite video
-- which the RCA has bought and which became accepted as teh color TV standard
by the NTSC a couple of month later. There is some real ingenuity in composite
video. And despite it isn't of interest today (yet from a technical point of
view it still is), I think it deserves a respected place in video games
history, because it has made it possible to delivered all those colorful video
games in our homes in the first place.
Right, that's a lot of information we didn't have before.
It's an HD CRT. It has all the inputs you could want, including S-Video, so I don't understand why you were asking specifically for Composite cable to replace your S-Video cables. It's also 30 inches when you were looking for 15 inches? I don't understand.
This TV, the Toshiba 30HF85, is indeed very good. It has 480p, 720p and 1080i through HDMI and Component, so it means you can use it with your PS2, Xbox, Wii, etc. It will indeed give an excellent picture for these consoles. For 240p and 480i it may be disappointing for some of us, but if you only ever played on Composite it will blow your mind once you use your old 16bit console with RGB through a Component adapter. I'd say don't hesitate and take this one ASAP. Bring a friend with you, this beast weighs 111.4 Ibs. (50.5 kg). And be extra careful with the screen, you don't want to scratch it when bringing it back home.
I mean... I feel you're in you're in the right thread to ask whatever your curious about.
FYI, shoot for the early/launch Xbox models and earliest versions of the component cables for the best image quality.
Thanks for the info. What's the cut-off point for an early Xbox model? And what are the ways to tell the differences between component cables?
These types of questions are why I was hesitant to ask, in case they've been answered here multiple times
Horsemama1956
Member
Keep in mind you're talking with people who might be a little obsessed over pq and certain connections.
I have a 30" Toshiba HD CRT and it does a great job scaling composite. Other than some motion artifacts it really doesn't look much different than component with Wii and original Xbox games and homebrew. It will still look amazing with Xbone and PS4 and even PC games as well.
The service menu is easy to work with if you're looking to fix overscan etc.
I definitely recommend picking it up.
Thanks for the info. What's the cut-off point for an early Xbox model? And what are the ways to tell the differences between component cables?
These types of questions are why I was hesitant to ask, in case they've been answered here multiple times
This kind of cable is the best one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Official-Or...AV-Video-Cable-HD-Optical-audio-/221991743344
It's the first party cable with the optical audio port built in. I'm no expert at identifying launch models, but it'll likely be a philips disc drive built into it.
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