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[NOLA_Gaffer]

I don't think they're making any more. You never know though.

Well then I'm thinking a NES or Famicom outputting anything over composite is a bit too expensive for my blood then, simple as that.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Yes, AFAIK the Ultra HDMI N64 works with all models (as opposed to the RGB mod which only works with early NS serial numbers).

Oh, I thought that there are two types of RGB mods, and that one of them is compatible with all consoles. I'll have to re-watch that video.

Is it possible to have a console with the RGB and HDMI mods? I'm just thinking of if/when I'd ever play on different TVs (e.g. HDTV vs. CRT/PVM).

Re. buying a Japanese console: the prices you've quoted sound great, and I really like that orange one, but the whole 'break tabs for region free' has never sat well with me. Something about it that makes me feel uneasy, which is why I'd be interested in an NTSC-U console because most of my games for other systems are North American.

 

[Mega]

I just picked up a AV-modded Famicom which should be arriving tomorrow or Friday. I'll likely use it for a few years and build up a little library of Famicom carts and then go all in on a RGB-modded AV Famicom in a few years. I'm hoping the price on them drop by then...the ones I was looking at on eBay are in the ballpark of $400.

You pay a lot less (under $200) by having someone RGB mod your Famicom than buying one already modded on ebay. And what's up with that JVC monitor seller? Won't respond? That's annoying.

Is ther any general tips for looking at crt tvs? Anything in particular regarding era, build or brand that would give any indication of quality?

Look for a 15KHz CRT monitor with S-video and RGB, Sony PVM or JVC.

 

[Chinner]

Spotted a Sony Trinitron KV-14T1U locally... Any good at all?

 

[TGMIII]

I just picked up a AV-modded Famicom which should be arriving tomorrow or Friday. I'll likely use it for a few years and build up a little library of Famicom carts and then go all in on a RGB-modded AV Famicom in a few years. I'm hoping the price on them drop by then...the ones I was looking at on eBay are in the ballpark of $400.

There's a UK seller that's selling both famicoms & famicom-AVs for around £175(Roughly $248), which considering the cost of the RGB board, console + labor seems like a reasonable enough price to me.

Guy seems to good work from what I've seen so I may look into one.

 

[Khaz]

Is ther any general tips for looking at crt tvs? Anything in particular regarding era, build or brand that would give any indication of quality?

For consoles pre-gen6, you want a TV with Component, but not 480p. (Not and EDTV/HDTV).S-Video is the next best thing.
If you spot an HD CRT with 480p/720p/1080i and widescreen, jump on it, but use it only for your PS2/Xbox and beyond.
Professional monitors (PVM etc) are nice but much rarer and often more expensive.

Any brand will do.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

There's a UK seller that's selling both famicoms & famicom-AVs for around £175(Roughly $248), which considering the cost of the RGB board, console + labor seems like a reasonable enough price to me.

Guy seems to good work from what I've seen so I may look into one.

I think my main concern is the capabilities of a RGB modded console. Once modded, is it strictly RGB only at that point or does it still function with composite connections?

I'd had to mod a console only for it to function with a handful of sets properly.

 

[Peltz]

For consoles pre-gen6, you want a TV with Component, but not 480p. (Not and EDTV/HDTV).S-Video is the next best thing.
If you spot an HD CRT with 480p/720p/1080i and widescreen, jump on it, but use it only for your PS2/Xbox and beyond.
Professional monitors (PVM etc) are nice but much rarer and often more expensive.

Any brand will do.

PVMs could be had for cheap though- often less than 100 bucks.

 

[NormalFish]

PVMs could be had for cheap though- often less than 100 bucks.

which is infinitely more expensive than the 0$ consumer CRTs frequently go for.

Spoiler

I don't disagree with you, but still.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

which is infinitely more expensive than the 0$ consumer CRTs frequently go for.

Spoiler

I don't disagree with you, but still.

Not quite $0, but all the TVs at my local thrift shop were $5 when I checked last week.

Super tempted to just grab one of those and be done with it.

 

[elmalloc]

Oh, I thought that there are two types of RGB mods, and that one of them is compatible with all consoles. I'll have to re-watch that video.

Is it possible to have a console with the RGB and HDMI mods? I'm just thinking of if/when I'd ever play on different TVs (e.g. HDTV vs. CRT/PVM).

Re. buying a Japanese console: the prices you've quoted sound great, and I really like that orange one, but the whole 'break tabs for region free' has never sat well with me. Something about it that makes me feel uneasy, which is why I'd be interested in an NTSC-U console because most of my games for other systems are North American.

Yes, you can have both rgb and HDMI mod. With the modder I work with, he wants early ns numbers for that purpose. HDMI mods can go in any serial number.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Well, if I'm gonna pay $400 for a RGB-enabled Famicom I may as well just spring for the Analogue NT at that point,

Yeah that's just ebay being ebay.

You can get an AV Fami for <$100 USD on its own pretty easily. I'd actually suggest checking ebay for "New Famicom" (which is what most Japanese people call it...) skipping anything with AV in the title or description (even -AV in the search) since that's what most people search for and doing some digging through results. I found a great condition one a few months ago for far less than the normal price using this method.

Then the RGB modkit is ~$105 AUD+shipping, so depends on exchange rate but the AUD is very weak right now so let's say $75 USD.

That plus install, which is the tough part since it's a pain to install so a bit expensive but I managed to DIY it using a solder bulb (not that I'd recommend trying, I managed to tear some trace/vias).

Anyway should only work out to around $200+shipping all in if you're willing to do a bit of legwork. If you were going for modding your existing Famicom, which already looks pretty cool, you could probably even get someone to mod the cables to be removable/longer + replace some caps for longevity and get pretty close for way less than that.

NESRGB is honestly a huge change. I was pretty disappointed with my AV until I modded mine. It was the difference between regretting buying the damn thing and it being a joy to use. Even if you don't want to get a full RGB setup, doing s-video to a CRT would be a massive jump.

 

[baphomet]

Oh, I thought that there are two types of RGB mods, and that one of them is compatible with all consoles. I'll have to re-watch that video.

Is it possible to have a console with the RGB and HDMI mods? I'm just thinking of if/when I'd ever play on different TVs (e.g. HDTV vs. CRT/PVM).

Re. buying a Japanese console: the prices you've quoted sound great, and I really like that orange one, but the whole 'break tabs for region free' has never sat well with me. Something about it that makes me feel uneasy, which is why I'd be interested in an NTSC-U console because most of my games for other systems are North American.

All N64s are modable for RGB.

 

[D.Lo]

I like you D.Lo, genuinely, I do. But this comes off as totally biased.

Xbox was state of the art for a very great price and Microsoft bankrolled a lot of classics. How you are twisting that into a negative feels pretty wrong. All of the console manufacturers have tried to assert their dominance in their own way. Microsoft really is no different, especially during that generation.

I mean, just look at Nintendo's tactics during the NES era. It's just healthy competitive business and it's generally good for us consumers.

That was actually why I said that - openly admitting my (sort-of) bias. I'm a political and historical animal, and like understanding the history of why things are the way they are.

Like the Saturn, a total SMH machine really, especially considering Sega were world leaders in 3D graphics in the arcades. In fact most of Sega's nonsense (FIVE consoles released 1983-1988!), most reactionary company ever. I was in the SNES thread criticising the SNES slow-ass legacy NES CPU just the other day. Go to any Wii U thread to see me roast Nintendo for the most boneheaded machine ever, goddamn it is a stupid console.

Still, I have an XB. I have Panzer Dragoon etc and most of the great multi-plats etc. My favourite game on it was the buggy-ass Indiana Jones game, because I'm a total sucker for Indy games.

But bringing it all back to my original point which was more on-topic, it doesn't feel retro to me, it feels like a standard definition modern machine. Same with GCN and PS2 to just a slightly lesser extent.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'd argue that's fetishism.

But I don't think it's a bad thing. It's like having nice speakers or headphones or a nice screen - you care about the content enough to want the perfect presentation. It's called being a serious fan (like audiophiles, or cinemaphiles who like to watch on real film).

The physical practical element is part of the experience (like vinyl), but unlike vinyl, playing on original hardware is actually the 'perfect' reproduction, not just an older tech compromise. Vinyl isn't the highest quality audio, though records were produced with its limitations in mind, so in a sense it is the most accurate. But a real Super Famicom is the only 100% perfect as-intended by the designers way to play Super Metroid.

Yeah I suppose

Anyway my point is that it's not really a conscious process... If there's something off in the emulation it's like nails on a chalkboard. An involuntary repulsion. ;P

 

[elmalloc]

All N64s are modable for RGB.

That is true. I stand corrected, but some n64s are harder than others and require Tim Worthington's RGB board.

 

[elmalloc]

That was actually why I said that - openly admitting my (sort-of) bias. I'm a political and historical animal, and like understanding the history of why things are the way they are.

Like the Saturn, a total SMH machine really, especially considering Sega were world leaders in 3D graphics in the arcades. In fact most of Sega's nonsense (FIVE consoles released 1983-1988!), most reactionary company ever. I was in the SNES thread criticising the SNES slow-ass legacy NES CPU just the other day. Go to any Wii U thread to see me roast Nintendo for the most boneheaded machine ever, goddamn it is a stupid console.

Still, I have an XB. I have Panzer Dragoon etc and most of the great multi-plats etc. My favourite game on it was the buggy-ass Indiana Jones game, because I'm a total sucker for Indy games.

But bringing it all back to my original point which was more on-topic, it doesn't feel retro to me, it feels like a standard definition modern machine. Same with GCN and PS2 to just a slightly lesser extent.

I've never heard anyone roast the SNES before. Nintendo was never about cpu/ppu. Sega and Sony now is a world leader in advertising, graphics go hand in hand with that. Tough to go in a retro thread and argue about graphics.

On the other hand, Nintendo has been about controller revolution and not evolution like their competition, no doubt, but the Wii mote is a failure.

 

[D.Lo]

I've never heard anyone roast the SNES before. Nintendo was never about cpu/ppu. Sega and Sony now is a world leader in advertising, graphics go hand in hand with that. Tough to go in a retro thread and argue about graphics.

On the other hand, Nintendo has been about controller revolution and not evolution like their competition, no doubt, but the Wii mote is a failure.

We were roasting the SNES the other day, because for an extra $5-10 per console at launch for a better CPU it could have completely dominated the generation graphically, instead it was crippled and underperformed 2-3 year older machines in some areas. The NES based CPU was probably originally there for Famicom backward compatibility which was of course dropped, so it was likely poor planning. Wii and Wii U were also crippled by hardware BC, but at least the BC was still there in the final console!

The Wii Remote wasn't a failure it was a smash hit. Their abandonment of it as the primary device for an expensive frankenstein albatross was bizarre.

Anyway sorry ya'll this is more of a 'retro history discussion' than an upscalers/PVM discussion!

On topic - I need to softmod my current PAL Xbox to get 480p, as my old one died. I have Splinter cell, and a USB controller lead, but am unable to find a compatible flash drive, all modern ones are too big and fancy.

 

[Peagles]

On topic - I need to softmod my current PAL Xbox to get 480p, as my old one died. I have Splinter cell, and a USB controller lead, but am unable to find a compatible flash drive, all modern ones are too big and fancy.

Have any 1GB or 2GB microSDs? I had a bunch of old ass flash drives but even they wouldn't work. I got lucky using an old microSD in a USB adapter.

 

[D.Lo]

Have any 1GB or 2GB microSDs? I had a bunch of old ass flash drives but even they wouldn't work. I got lucky using an old microSD in a USB adapter.

Yeah I don't, maybe ebay will game someone selling some old SD cards.

When did you do it? What OS? I'll be using Wine for the ancient windows app in OSX basically.

I did it before like 15 years ago lol.

 

[Peagles]

Yeah I don't, maybe ebay will game someone selling some old SD cards.

When did you do it? What OS? I'll be using Wine for the ancient windows app in OSX basically.

I did it before like 15 years ago lol.

Just look for non-SDHC ones, worth a shot anyway. I went through like 5-6 flash drives, all ancient, and none were recognised. Just about did my head in. This was last year, I think I have UnleashX? I just put stuff on there over the network now, it's pretty neat.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

For consoles pre-gen6, you want a TV with Component, but not 480p. (Not and EDTV/HDTV).S-Video is the next best thing.
If you spot an HD CRT with 480p/720p/1080i and widescreen, jump on it, but use it only for your PS2/Xbox and beyond.
Professional monitors (PVM etc) are nice but much rarer and often more expensive.

Any brand will do.

Keep in mind that HD CRTs usually have bad input lag, almost as bad as LCDs. I learned this the hard way. I'd recommend a 480i w/component for Gen 6 (and Wii) as well.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

So it figures all the PVM-style displays in my immediate area are 9 inches except for one, the one I can't seem to get the seller to respond from.

 

[BocoDragon]

which is infinitely more expensive than the 0$ consumer CRTs frequently go for.

Spoiler

I don't disagree with you, but still.

I got a 20 inch Sony PVM for $0 off craigslist last year.

A CRT is a CRT... No one except retro gamers want them.

 

[Mega]

So it figures all the PVM-style displays in my immediate area are 9 inches except for one, the one I can't seem to get the seller to respond from.

Get the Ikegami I told you about. It's the same cost with shipping as the JVC you were eyeing, and it has RGB.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Get the Ikegami I told you about. It's the same cost with shipping as the JVC you were eyeing, and it has RGB.

I'm not crazy about how huge the Ikegami is, both in width and depth.

The JVC is a bit more the size of a standard CRT.

 

[Mega]

It is oddly rectangular. The PVM of the same screen size is an awesome and cute little cube.

 

[FSLink]

If anybody knows anywhere I could get a PVM here in Hawaii, please let me know.

 

[Huggers]

Was thinking of buying a second BVM. There's one on Ebay with days left and it's already going for more than what I paid for mine back along. Think they must be getting harder to come by. Might have to get a PVM instead

 

[Khaz]

Keep in mind that HD CRTs usually have bad input lag, almost as bad as LCDs. I learned this the hard way. I'd recommend a 480i w/component for Gen 6 (and Wii) as well.

What? No they don't. Unless you are using some sort of image processing, if you're using their native resolution (480p and over) then you shouldn't have any input lag.

 

[Chaos]

On topic - I need to softmod my current PAL Xbox to get 480p, as my old one died. I have Splinter cell, and a USB controller lead, but am unable to find a compatible flash drive, all modern ones are too big and fancy.

I used an old Sansa Clip 2gb mp3 player to mod mine, its recognised as a normal flash storage device.

 

[Khaz]

What? No they don't. Unless you are using some sort of image processing, if you're using their native resolution (480p and over) then you shouldn't have any input lag.

In fact I just tested (again) my HD CRT with the 240p test suite manual test lag on the Wii and a wired controller: one frame of lag in 240p, zero frames of lag in 480p.

 

[SKINNER!]

The Ultra HDMI n64 mod is available now. It's about $200 though, if you want a reference to a known/trusted installer I can PM you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy1M6v2_MI

Thanks for the suggestion but I can't justify paying that much and my console is pal anyway

 

[SuperCambot]

This question may be a bit out there, but I have a JVC X'Eye and recently got the Framemeister. Has anyone ever used the X'Eye 9-pin output (Genesis 2, 3) with a SCART cable an ran it through a Framemeister?

 

[Peltz]

This question may be a bit out there, but I have a JVC X'Eye and recently got the Framemeister. Has anyone ever used the X'Eye 9-pin output (Genesis 2, 3) with a SCART cable an ran it through a Framemeister?

I'm sure many people have. Doesn't seem that "out there" to me

Retro console accessories on eBay surely sells them.

If you could post your impressions of the X'Eye, I'd love to hear them.

 

[elmalloc]

In fact I just tested (again) my HD CRT with the 240p test suite manual test lag on the Wii and a wired controller: one frame of lag in 240p, zero frames of lag in 480p.

Makes sense. I don't consider 1 frame much discernible lag, but if you're going for lagless it definitely counts. Back in the quake 2 days I could definitely feel a difference between 45ms and 20ms, which is a litlte over 1 frame of lag, so it's possible.

 

[Madao]

i used to think i couldn't tell apart very low lag but when i got the CRT last year, i found out i could tell between 0, 1, 2 and 3 frames of lag.

i can still play with 2 frames of lag fine but 3 is when it starts feeling laggy for me. i guess it's partially old age.

 

[elmalloc]

i used to think i couldn't tell apart very low lag but when i got the CRT last year, i found out i could tell between 0, 1, 2 and 3 frames of lag.

i can still play with 2 frames of lag fine but 3 is when it starts feeling laggy for me. i guess it's partially old age.

It helps to not be able to blame deaths on lag kill, lol. Like I used to shoot hoops outside all the time and just blame the wind for none of them going in.

 

[SuperCambot]

I'm sure many people have. Doesn't seem that "out there" to me

Retro console accessories on eBay surely sells them.

If you could post your impressions of the X'Eye, I'd love to hear them.

Yeah, I guess it's not that 'out there.' The thing is that there are very few testimonials out there and one I have read was a guy reporting sync issues. I guess I will be trying it out anyways and will get a Genesis 2/Sega CD or a CDX if I encounter problems.

I will report back with my findings.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

There's a UK seller that's selling both famicoms & famicom-AVs for around £175(Roughly $248), which considering the cost of the RGB board, console + labor seems like a reasonable enough price to me.

Guy seems to good work from what I've seen so I may look into one.

Thanks for posting this link. I've bookmarked it and will keep it in mind if I'm ever in the market for a NES. I really wish this guy did work on SNES systems.

Yes, you can have both rgb and HDMI mod. With the modder I work with, he wants early ns numbers for that purpose. HDMI mods can go in any serial number.

All N64s are modable for RGB.

Thanks, both.

 

[Chinner]

Does this PVM look alright? Concerned that it doesn't have a scart port.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-PVM-...000364?hash=item2107c0db6c:g:jG8AAOSwUdlWgsat

 

[Danchi]

Does this PVM look alright? Concerned that it doesn't have a scart port.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-PVM-...000364?hash=item2107c0db6c:g:jG8AAOSwUdlWgsat

It's not compatible with RGB or component so I wouldn't bother personally. This is what the back of a PVM normally looks like: http://www.repaire.net/forums/attachments/img_1807-jpg.28433/

You won't find any with SCART connections on the back. You'll have to use an adapter like this: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm

 

[Peagles]

Some of the older ones have SCART on the back, but yeh most are BNC.

 

[Mega]

Chinner, it's a nice CRT but I would not bother if you plan to move beyond S-Video to RGB/Component.

Some of the older ones have SCART on the back, but yeh most are BNC.

Cool, never seen those. Must be really old ones. Some old PVMs also have a 25-pin connector for the RGB input, which would require this adapter:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm/sony-pvm-scart-converter

Some (all?) of the medical-grade PVMs have two sets of RGB inputs which is pretty neat.

 

[Peagles]

Yeh one of mine has CMPTR and SCART. I have never used the CMPTR though. I think it's late 80s/early 90s?

 

[Chinner]

It's not compatible with RGB or component so I wouldn't bother personally. This is what the back of a PVM normally looks like: http://www.repaire.net/forums/attachments/img_1807-jpg.28433/

You won't find any with SCART connections on the back. You'll have to use an adapter like this: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm

Some of the older ones have SCART on the back, but yeh most are BNC.

Chinner, it's a nice CRT but I would not bother if you plan to move beyond S-Video to RGB/Component.



Cool, never seen those. Must be really old ones. Some old PVMs also have a 25-pin connector for the RGB input, which would require this adapter:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm/sony-pvm-scart-converter


Some (all?) of the medical-grade PVMs have two sets of RGB inputs which is pretty neat.

Alright, cool, so I suppose something like this is probably more versatile and it looks like it has the right BNC connections?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-PVM-...288386?hash=item58d37cb8c2:g:n3UAAOSwUdlWgsdj

shame it's a bit too small.

 

[Mega]

13" is the minimum. I have a 8" PVM for laughs and curiosity, can't play games on it and be comfortable.

These are the sort of monitors you want:

BVM-20F1E (top tier, too sharp/scanlines too thick for some)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-BVM-...615276?hash=item4af696266c:g:vKYAAOSw9N1V1t~d

BVM-14H5E? (smaller version BVM, similar sharpness as above)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-BVM-...223910?hash=item4af6ebbb26:g:P50AAOSwLN5Wj70U

PVM-20L2 (probably the best value for what you're getting and may have the best old-school image)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-PVM-...627883?hash=item4d3e2d256b:g:hqwAAOSwLnlWmCsb

PVM-14L2 ("better" 14" BVM and bigger 20L2 above are same price, so this seems steep)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-PVM-...160838?hash=item4af7929d86:g:ZaQAAOSwZG9WkTOz

I can't see shipping to see if it's outrageous, but the item prices here seem generally okay. Put in an offer for like two-thirds of asking price and see if seller bites.

 

[TGMIII]

So on my PVM-14M4E I get audio through S-video without issue but through SCART via BNC I don't. Cable and console works with other older PVMs I have here but not the 14M4E. Obviously I've played with the sound volume and had a look in the service menu but couldn't seem to get anything going.

Any ideas?

 

[Mega]

S-video and RGB don't carry audio. Maybe the RGB panel's RCA audio input is busted. The real solution is run your systems' audio through your own stereo receiver and speakers. Don't use the tiny built-in mono audio.

 

[ToastyFrog]

Anyone know where I can get an extension cable for the Mini 8-DIN the Framemeister uses for RGB-in? All the Mini 8s I can find have a mirrored pinout from the one on the Framemeister (the center pin is offset to the wrong side). I bought a Framemeister SCART adapter from Retro Gaming Cables that is very well made but is so incredibly short it barely reaches to the side of the CRT I have it plugged in to. I have to turn my Framemeister backward in order to make it connect, which makes using it a giant hassle. I was hoping RGC sells extensions, but they don't seem to carry them and haven't responded to any of my queries.