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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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dubc35

Member
$180

It's ~4x the price of a terrible SCART to HDMI scaler, but 100x the quality. That's a bargain price for both quality, and considering the field of top notch transcoders/scalers (aside from the Framemeister) traditionally costing 3 - 5 times more than that.

I was wondering about the SCART to HDMI scalers on Amazon and elsewhere in the ~$60 usd range. So they are crap?

Also, reason I ask, I may consider some ps1 mods to RGB it. I have a PS3 but reading around it seems like the ps1 on ps3 quality is bad? I plan to test it out seeing as I have a ps3 and ps1 games but wanted to see what the GAF-sensus was?
 
$180

It's ~4x the price of a terrible SCART to HDMI scaler, but 100x the quality. That's a bargain price for both quality, and considering the field of top notch transcoders/scalers (aside from the Framemeister) traditionally costing 3 - 5 times more than that.

More to the point I think, it does what most people want from the framemeister for half the price. Only issue is it's a bit less compatible with some TVs, and it's gonna need an audio recombiner for HDMI.
I was wondering about the SCART to HDMI scalers on Amazon and elsewhere in the ~$60 usd range. So they are crap?

Also, reason I ask, I may consider some ps1 mods to RGB it. I have a PS3 but reading around it seems like the ps1 on ps3 quality is bad? I plan to test it out seeing as I have a ps3 and ps1 games but wanted to see what the GAF-sensus was?
PS1 doesn't need a mod for RGB. just use Luma for Sync in your scart cable. The PS3 has input lag and sometimes screws up colors and the like, but it's okay for something slow like RPGs. I would personally recommend getting a PS2 and using component, since that's by far the easiest way to go if you're TV takes it.

If it doesn't, or you want to go for the quality end of the quality vs price spectrum, the OSSC, XRGB3, or Framemeister are probably the best solutions, but they have somewhat different strengths and weaknesses.
 

Mega

Banned
20M4U was $20 but I've since sold it off.

I feel so lucky. A guy on ebay just asked me for € 30
0
, for a JVC TM-H1750C. He's even like, 4/5 hours by car from here. How am I supposed to resist such a succulent deal?
lol

LOL that sucks! I got two of the superior HD version, $110 and $175 after shipping. If anyone is feeling impulsive, this is the one: HD CRT loaded with all the necessary input cards and auction is ending soon--

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-Broadca...150484?hash=item25b6e37754:g:xoAAAOSwuAVWxkoY

Gamecube and Wii at 480p look incredibly nice on it. So does 240p stuff.
 

ToD_

Member
I'm considering buying a PS2, which will be used for both PS1 and PS2 games in equal measure. I will hook it up to a Sony BVM-20F1U (RGB 240p/480i), but may also connect it to a fixed pixel display, so 480p output should also be considered. Ideally I'd like to get a slim. If some compatibility is lost because certain accessories don't work, that's fine. I won't be getting any games requiring the HDD or EyeToy. Is there any model/revision I should avoid based on video quality, compatibility, or for other reasons?
 

dubc35

Member
More to the point I think, it does what most people want from the framemeister for half the price. Only issue is it's a bit less compatible with some TVs, and it's gonna need an audio recombiner for HDMI.

PS1 doesn't need a mod for RGB. just use Luma for Sync in your scart cable. The PS3 has input lag and sometimes screws up colors and the like, but it's okay for something slow like RPGs. I would personally recommend getting a PS2 and using component, since that's by far the easiest way to go if you're TV takes it.

If it doesn't, or you want to go for the quality end of the quality vs price spectrum, the OSSC, XRGB3, or Framemeister are probably the best solutions, but they have somewhat different strengths and weaknesses.

Cool, thanks. It looks like a ps2 would be the way to go. I guess I shouldn't have traded it in 10(?) years ago when I bought my ps3.

My TV has component in (OG Xbox currently using it) so that would work.

Thanks again!
 
I'm considering buying a PS2, which will be used for both PS1 and PS2 games in equal measure. I will hook it up to a Sony BVM-20F1U (RGB 240p/480i), but may also connect it to a fixed pixel display, so 480p output should also be considered. Ideally I'd like to get a slim. If some compatibility is lost because certain accessories don't work, that's fine. I won't be getting any games requiring the HDD or EyeToy. Is there any model/revision I should avoid based on video quality, compatibility, or for other reasons?

The fat is generally more compatible than the slim. If compatibility is your priority, that's what I would recommend. Additionally, this allows you to use homebrew to boot from the HDD, which reduces the load on your laser.

As far as cables go, like I said earlier, RGB is the best image quality on the PS2. RGsB is a pain in the ass to interpret, however, so 480p via SCART is a bit out of reach unless you want to invest in an extron device or comparable that will isolate that sync signal. That said, component is your best bet if you would like a single cable solution without buying some other unit. The image quality is slightly less crisp, but 480p is quite nice. Worth mentioning that the vast majority of games aren't 480p compatible, though, so that might not be worth it depending on what games you're intending to play.
Cool, thanks. It looks like a ps2 would be the way to go. I guess I shouldn't have traded it in 10(?) years ago when I bought my ps3.

My TV has component in (OG Xbox currently using it) so that would work.

Thanks again!
it's possible your TV won't handle 240p via component, or that the scaling will be very poor either in terms of IQ or lag, so those are things to consider. Glad I could help, though.
 

dubc35

Member
it's possible your TV won't handle 240p via component, or that the scaling will be very poor either in terms of IQ or lag, so those are things to consider. Glad I could help, though.

Good point, it doesn't looks like it does in the specs. Would 240p even show up in HDTV specs? PDF of TV manual (bottom of page 48 has input signals)

It will probably be ps1 on ps3 for now but I wanted to see what options are available.

edit, I need to read my TV manual again, a bunch of stuff in there I had forgotten about, lol
 

Galdelico

Member
LOL that sucks! I got two of the superior HD version, $110 and $175 after shipping. If anyone is feeling impulsive, this is the one: HD CRT loaded with all the necessary input cards and auction is ending soon--

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-Broadca...150484?hash=item25b6e37754:g:xoAAAOSwuAVWxkoY

Gamecube and Wii at 480p look incredibly nice on it. So does 240p stuff.
You're so close, yet so far, Texas.

759.gif
 

Mega

Banned
If anyone is interested in putting together a MAME PC connected to a CRT, Calamity recently had a huge update to CRT Emudriver. It now supports up to Windows 8 and video cards up to Radeon HD 7000 series (previously only up to 4000 series).

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

The process is a lot easier and more automated than before. I previously lost hours (and a bit of my sanity) browsing old posts and editing dense text files to get everything up and running. I did a reinstall last night using the new driver and was basically done in 30 minutes. Now I just need a modelines generator preset tailored to my specific CRT's supported scanline frequencies.
 

ToD_

Member
The fat is generally more compatible than the slim. If compatibility is your priority, that's what I would recommend. Additionally, this allows you to use homebrew to boot from the HDD, which reduces the load on your laser.

As far as cables go, like I said earlier, RGB is the best image quality on the PS2. RGsB is a pain in the ass to interpret, however, so 480p via SCART is a bit out of reach unless you want to invest in an extron device or comparable that will isolate that sync signal. That said, component is your best bet if you would like a single cable solution without buying some other unit. The image quality is slightly less crisp, but 480p is quite nice. Worth mentioning that the vast majority of games aren't 480p compatible, though, so that might not be worth it depending on what games you're intending to play.

Thanks for the information. Does a fat PS2 require hardware mods in order to boot homebrew from the HDD? Also, is there a good source out there which shows the compatibility differences? I'm sure google can help me there, but if there's a good source, please don't hesitate to share.

If anyone is interested in putting together a MAME PC connected to a CRT, Calamity recently had a huge update to CRT Emudriver. It now supports up to Windows 8 and video cards up to Radeon HD 7000 series (previously only up to 4000 series).

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

The process is a lot easier and more automated than before. I previously lost hours (and a bit of my sanity) browsing old posts and editing dense text files to get everything up and running. I did a reinstall last night using the new driver and was basically done in 30 minutes. Now I just need a modelines generator preset tailored to my specific CRT's supported scanline frequencies.

Oh, nice. I have an older PC with a Radeon HD4850 sort of dedicated for this purpose, but getting everything to work properly was such a hassle I took a break from it. I'll give it another try this weekend with this update. I love how the image quality is just perfect when it works. Playing 15KHz arcade games at their native resolution and refresh rate on the BVM is a thing of beauty.
 

televator

Member
I was wondering about the SCART to HDMI scalers on Amazon and elsewhere in the ~$60 usd range. So they are crap?

Also, reason I ask, I may consider some ps1 mods to RGB it. I have a PS3 but reading around it seems like the ps1 on ps3 quality is bad? I plan to test it out seeing as I have a ps3 and ps1 games but wanted to see what the GAF-sensus was?

Those cheap scalers are total crap. They smear the picture during movement and have enormous input lag.

Like normalfish said, PS1 doesn't require a mod. Just a Scart cable. The PS3 does alright, but it does add lag to a degree that makes rhythm games unplayable. RPGs and other non trimming intensive games are perfectly acceptable on PS3. Though I'd still prefer to have a scanline filter on 240p material and that goes up to a Framemeister/OSSC setup. In which case it's just better to go with an actual PS1 or PS2.
 
hey guys, i'm subscribing to the thread now that i got set up:

i'm pretty excited so i'm going to share a bunch of full sized pics below:

9GqT2W7l.jpg


5rhHqkCl.jpg


RBi0xJql.jpg


Zuugineh.jpg


Gst47Aw.jpg



hjK8BaC.jpg




ok! i'm ready to retro game =)
 
Thanks for the information. Does a fat PS2 require hardware mods in order to boot homebrew from the HDD? Also, is there a good source out there which shows the compatibility differences? I'm sure google can help me there, but if there's a good source, please don't hesitate to share.

eh... depends on your standards re-'good source'. There's a wikipedia page which -- I believe -- references Sony, but i don't think it's complete. I've seen various lists elsewhere but I can't recall them, should probably practice some google-fu.

You don't need hardware mods. You will need someone with a hardware mod to install a homebrew launcher like FMCB to a memory card and send it to you, however. There are individuals on gaf who can do that for you, though I am not one of them and I can't recall who said individuals are.
 

Hawk269

Member
I was wondering about the SCART to HDMI scalers on Amazon and elsewhere in the ~$60 usd range. So they are crap?

Also, reason I ask, I may consider some ps1 mods to RGB it. I have a PS3 but reading around it seems like the ps1 on ps3 quality is bad? I plan to test it out seeing as I have a ps3 and ps1 games but wanted to see what the GAF-sensus was?

I have one of those scalers from Amazon and it works really well for me. I have my Saturn going into my Panasonic 4k and it looks really good. My screen is 65", so it does a little block because it is such a large screen, but it looks great, colors are fantastic and image is nice and crisp. Yeah, you don't have the scan lines which I know some like when gaming with old school consoles, but for me the Saturn using that box has worked out great.

I also have a VGA to Component Scaler that is around the same price where I have my Dreamcast going from a VGA Box>VGA to Component Scaler>Component Swtich Box>To the same 4k TV and DC games looks fantastic. DC games via VGA look great and using the scaler it still maintains a great image. My scaler box has 480p, 720p & 1080i, currently I am using the 720p mode and as mentioned it looks really great. Currently playing through Shenmue on the Dreamcast and Shining the Holy Ark on the Saturn.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Fuck me I wish PVMs were easy to come by in my area. I'd rather not pay the high cost of getting one shipped in nor would I want to risk it being damaged in transfer.
 
hey guys, i'm subscribing to the thread now that i got set up:

i'm pretty excited so i'm going to share a bunch of full sized pics below:

ok! i'm ready to retro game =)

Looking good. How many hours is on it?

Also get to work on your gunpla.
Also also feel free to deposit all Seed gundam into the trash can.
 
Fuck me I wish PVMs were easy to come by in my area. I'd rather not pay the high cost of getting one shipped in nor would I want to risk it being damaged in transfer.
yeah, i tried to grab televator's but sounds like shipping would destroy it.

Someone around here really likes Gundam. Not sure who that is...
i'm actually not a big gundam fan (i know that sounds silly w/ my table set up like that,) but i'm a HUGE Macross fan/collector, you should see my collection... it dwarfs that table =) i wish GAF had a macross thread but they only have gundam so i just goof off in there...
that row behind the tv toward the right is worth about 3k, (one of them is going for $700 and the others about 3-500 ea.) i'm just a collector. i get them for about 150 retail within a month they go up to 300 (extremely limited) then use them for trade fodder or sell for funds to grab macross stuff (extremely expensive hobby).

Beautiful setup!
thanks!
Looking good. How many hours is on it?

Also get to work on your gunpla.
Also also feel free to deposit all Seed gundam into the trash can.
it's moderately high, about 70K. edit: it's actually closer to 58K now that i checked. Mega disclosed the hours upfront. he sold it to me for a bargain $100, i read these things are built like tanks but if something goes wrong it wasn't too much... now macross on the other hand.... each figure is about 300+ USD =/

hey that metal build strike freedom is hot!=)

Yep. At this point I'm hoping someone generously leaves one at my door step.

Btw, looks good Dave, making me jealous.
i might go CRT diving and grab a few more, if i find one local, i'll save one for you.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
There was a 20" BVM up on Craigslist for the longest time but it was one of those fancy models that had the pull-out controls and whatnot...plus it looked like it had a lot of weird rack mount attachments and whatnot on it.
 

Chinner

Banned
There was a 20" BVM up on Craigslist for the longest time but it was one of those fancy models that had the pull-out controls and whatnot...plus it looked like it had a lot of weird rack mount attachments and whatnot on it.
The pull out controls look overwhelming but I'm guessing the amount of control it gives is significant .
 

Galdelico

Member
Your monitor looks fantastic, Dave! Huge thumbs up.
And thanks again Mega for all the tips and help. Greatly appreciated, good man. ^_-
 
You monitor looks fantastic, Dave! Huge thumbs up.
And thanks again Mega for all the tips and help. Greatly appreciated, good man. ^_-
thanks! yeah, Mega is awesome and super helpful

Looking good. How many hours is on it?
update: the hours on the set is actually just a bit over 58k (not 70K), updated my original post

i found my way around and checked the hours on the set.
eTOj3r1l.jpg


Mega's pretty cool to over estimate the hours just to be on the safe side when disclosing everything about the set. thanks man!
 
So I am going to Japan soon and been thinking picking up a XRGB MINI FRAMEMEISTER and asking for some advice. Currently I have old PAL consoles (Snes, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube and Wii), a few scart cables lying around but I kept reading that you cannot use PAL cables directly as it will fry the cables?

Another question is that it seems like in order to get the best picture output people combine modded RGB outputs on older consoles (maybe ive misunderstood the community). I am thinking of getting a dedicated Tube TV in the future (but not right now) but will the XRGB mini be worth it if I am only planning to play older consoles on an HD TV? Do I need some extra cables or adapters for PS2 or Gamecube games?

What type of wires or adapters (as a PAL owner) do I need to be able to able to output correctly for nes or snes games on an XRGB mini.

I am not opposed to buying NTSC Consoles or Super Famicom while in Japan, but not sure about the power supply and needing a converter (due to old standards).
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
storafötter;196760624 said:
So I am going to Japan soon and been thinking picking up a XRGB MINI FRAMEMEISTER and asking for some advice. Currently I have old PAL consoles (Snes, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube and Wii), a few scart cables lying around but I kept reading that you cannot use PAL cables directly as it will fry the cables?

It's because Japan doesn't actually use Scart, but something that looks exactly like Scart but a couple of pins are reversed. It's commonly called "J21".

In the box for the Framemeister is a converter that connects J21 and converts it to the mini-DIN input on the Framemeister. All you need to do is get a different version of that converter that connects PAL Scart to mini-DIN. Something like this.

Your PAL scart cables will be fine. In fact, as a North American, we had neither Scart nor J21, but because PAL Scart cables are so much easier to find cables and switchers for, that is what I invested in (even though we're NTSC!.. the TV format is irrelevant when considering these connectors)

storafötter;196760624 said:
Another question is that it seems like in order to get the best picture output people combine modded RGB outputs on older consoles (maybe ive misunderstood the community). I am thinking of getting a dedicated Tube TV in the future (but not right now) but will the XRGB mini be worth it if I am only planning to play older consoles on an HD TV?

XRGB mini is definitely only for people with HD sets. No need for any special device if you have a CRT tube TV with RGB input (Scart or otherwise).

But I'll say that flexibility is damn nice. I have a PVM tube TV which I love, and I also have a XRGB mini connected to my HDTV plasma. And actually... the HDTV is my daily driver. I value the big screen, geometrically perfect image. But others may value different qualities there.

storafötter;196760624 said:
Do I need some extra cables or adapters for PS2 or Gamecube games?

You'll want to use component cables for these and any other system after PS2 (they're ultra expensive on Gamecube but alternative solutions are coming). And then you'll want to get a component to d-terminal adapter to connect these to the XRGB mini. https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female

storafötter;196760624 said:
What type of wires or adapters (as a PAL owner) do I need to be able to able to output correctly for nes or snes games on an XRGB mini.

All your SCART cables are fine if you have the cable I linked above.... but your NES will need to be modded for RGB. You can input composite to the XRGB mini if you have nothing else... it's not bad but not good.

storafötter;196760624 said:
I am not opposed to buying NTSC Consoles or Super Famicom while in Japan, but not sure about the power supply and needing a converter (due to old standards).

If you are in Europe you will need to get a power converter (incidentally, we don't in North America... the voltage between Japan and North America is so close that AV adapters compensate).

But the picture cables are all the same. No need to get NTSC consoles unless you want NTSC versions of games with the right timing. The PAL consoles can connect to the XRGB mini or a CRT tube TV all the same.
 
It's because Japan doesn't actually use Scart, but something that looks exactly like Scart but a couple of pins are reversed. It's commonly called "J21".

In the box for the Framemeister is a converter that connects J21 and converts it to the mini-DIN input on the Framemeister. All you need to do is get a different version of that converter that connects PAL Scart to mini-DIN. Something like this.

Your PAL scart cables will be fine. In fact, as a North American, we had neither Scart nor J21, but because PAL Scart cables are so much easier to find cables and switchers for, that is what I invested in (even though we're NTSC!.. the TV format is irrelevant when considering these connectors)

XRGB mini is definitely only for people with HD sets. No need for any special device if you have a CRT tube TV with RGB input (Scart or otherwise).

But I'll say that flexibility is damn nice. I have a PVM tube TV which I love, and I also have a XRGB mini connected to my HDTV plasma. And actually... the HDTV is my daily driver. I value the big screen, geometrically perfect image. But others may value different qualities there.

All your SCART cables are fine if you have the cable I linked above.... but your NES will need to be modded for RGB. You can input composite to the XRGB mini if you have nothing else... it's not bad but not good.

If you are in Europe you will need to get a power converter (incidentally, we don't in North America... the voltage between Japan and North America is so close that AV adapters compensate).

But the picture cables are all the same. No need to get NTSC consoles unless you want NTSC versions of games with the right timing. The PAL consoles can connect to the XRGB mini or a CRT tube TV all the same.

Thanks again for your explanations. Yeah I was thinking of having two sets of TVs for retro gaming like you mentioned for different purposes in the future.

However I am glad to hear that the framemeister mini is primarily HD display. At first it feels so overwhelming with the different types so I got a bit confused about if I needed to RGB mod everything or not.

Yeah based on what you are saying there I think I will wait a bit with getting a NTSC console (I do have a bulky converter I bought some years back but its not very convenient to use, and it is loud). I still have a lot of games I should play before upgrading to another regions.

Another question I was wondering about is if the RGB Scart adapters are good enough?
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mf03x6WmPfpNJOPX4cQ6ueQ.jpg

Glad to know that it is not the PAL scart cables fault but the converter that comes with the machine that is causing the problem.

You'll want to use component cables for these and any other system after PS2 (they're ultra expensive on Gamecube but alternative solutions are coming). And then you'll want to get a component to d-terminal adapter to connect these to the XRGB mini. https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female

Okay that is interesting. So I guess these Gamecube RGB Cables are not as good as component ones. The one for the Wii is the only one I still have, but I probably have to buy one for the ps2.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-Ga...121688?hash=item25b6f24918:g:HOIAAOSwKtlWqnju
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
storafötter;196761899 said:
Thanks again for your explanations. Yeah I was thinking of having two sets of TVs for retro gaming like you mentioned for different purposes in the future.

However I am glad to hear that the framemeister mini is primarily HD display. At first it feels so overwhelming with the different types so I got a bit confused about if I needed to RGB mod everything or not.

Yeah based on what you are saying there I think I will wait a bit with getting a NTSC console (I do have a bulky converter I bought some years back but its not very convenient to use, and it is loud). I still have a lot of games I should play before upgrading to another regions.

BTW I updated my previous post with this:

storafötter;196760624 said:
Do I need some extra cables or adapters for PS2 or Gamecube games?

You'll want to use component cables for these and any other system after PS2 (they're ultra expensive on Gamecube but alternative solutions are coming). And then you'll want to get a component to d-terminal adapter to connect these to the XRGB mini. https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female

------------

storafötter;196761899 said:
Another question I was wondering about is if the RGB Scart adapters are good enough?
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mf03x6WmPfpNJOPX4cQ6ueQ.jpg

No, they're not. Those are basically composite (the "yellow picture cable") to Scart connectors. You're just taking the crappy composite signal and converting it to RGB, but that means it looks as bad as composite.

Composite is one of the worst connections. Converting composite to RGB doesn't give you real RGB. And there's already a direct composite input on the XRGB mini itself.

As I mentioned, without a mod, NES can only do composite. You'll have your input for that on the XRGB mini until you get it modded, but it is the worst connection and you'll want other cables for other consoles.

storafötter;196761899 said:
Glad to know that it is not the PAL scart cables fault but the converter that comes with the machine that is causing the problem.

That's right. If you have any scart cables at all, you're already in a better position than us North Americans, who had to buy all this stuff from scratch. We never had any kind of RGB at all unless we got special PVM monitors or now the XRGB mini.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(consciously double posting because I'm replied to in an edit)

storafötter;196761899 said:
Okay that is interesting. So I guess these Gamecube RGB Cables are not as good as component ones. The one for the Wii is the only one I still have, but I probably have to buy one for the ps2.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-Ga...121688?hash=item25b6f24918:g:HOIAAOSwKtlWqnju

RGB scart for Gamecube or Wii is a very good connection. Nice and clean. But it doesn't do 480p (progressive scan)

Use it over using composite (yellow cable) or s-video. But it's not the ideal component connection (the red, green, blue cables) which can do 480p progressive scan.

PS2 and Wii is dirt cheap to get a component cable (PS3 and Wii U component cables work!). Grab that ASAP... and use your Gamecube Scart RGB cables until cheaper solutions come along (unless you're rich and want to drop $300 on its rare component cables)
 
BTW I updated my previous post with this:

You'll want to use component cables for these and any other system after PS2 (they're ultra expensive on Gamecube but alternative solutions are coming). And then you'll want to get a component to d-terminal adapter to connect these to the XRGB mini. https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable-female

------------

No, they're not. Those are basically composite (the "yellow picture cable") to Scart connectors. You're just taking the crappy composite signal and converting it to RGB, but that means it looks as bad as composite.

Composite is one of the worst connections. Converting composite to RGB doesn't give you real RGB. And there's already a direct composite input on the XRGB mini itself.

As I mentioned, without a mod, NES can only do composite. You'll have your input for that on the XRGB mini until you get it modded, but it is the worst connection and you'll want other cables for other consoles.

That's right. If you have any scart cables at all, you're already in a better position than us North Americans, who had to buy all this stuff from scratch. We never had any kind of RGB at all unless we got special PVM monitors or now the XRGB mini.

I apologize, I didnt notice the edit until later that you replied to me already. Thanks for clarifying about the bad adapters, which means I need to get some wires that actually connect to the old consoles (dont have that from before).

Thats good to know that the SNES doesnt need a mod at all for displaying on the Framemeister. I was uncertain because I remember while growing up that the wires you used for connecting to the TV with the NES/SNES was very different *that grey with a tube like opening* than what became the later standard with RGB or composite.

(consciously double posting because I'm replied to in an edit)

RGB scart for Gamecube or Wii is a very good connection. Nice and clean. But it doesn't do 480p (progressive scan)

Use it over using composite (yellow cable) or s-video. But it's not the ideal component connection (the red, green, blue cables) which can do 480p progressive scan.

PS2 and Wii is dirt cheap to get a component cable (PS3 and Wii U component cables work!). Grab that ASAP... and use your Gamecube Scart RGB cables until cheaper solutions come along (unless you're rich and want to drop $300 on its rare component cables)

Yeah I was wondering about what I found out online that you could use both Wii/Wii U or PS2/PS3 composite. Progressive Scan is some "buzzword" I remember reading on NTSC games I imported on the Gamecube. I got the impression that in the US a lot of NTSC games had progressive scan support or am I wrong?

So sounds like the best current solution for the gamecube is to go for the RGB cables for now. Thanks again :). I think I am more than certain that I will buy the Framemeister now thanks to all the help.
 

Khaz

Member
No, they're not. Those are basically composite (the "yellow picture cable") to Scart connectors. You're just taking the crappy composite signal and converting it to RGB, but that means it looks as bad as composite.

Not quite. It's a Composite passthrough, it feeds the Composite signal to the TV via the CVBS / CSync pin. The TV, then, just does what it does with any encoded signal (Composite, SVideo, Component) and decodes it back to RGB for its electron beams. This is subject to limitations as the TV may or may not be able to deal with PAL, SECAM, or NTSC encoding format.

Scart is a standard designed to pass several different signals through a single connector (Composite, SVideo, RGBS, Audio). It's great for ease of use but it can create some confusion like with these adapters.

Conversion from Composite to RGB is for example what the French NES do: the PAL CVBS signal output by the VDP is decoded to RGBS via a daughterboard and transmitted through Scart to the TV. It was done so as it was believed at the time that many French TVs could only decode SECAM CVBS signals.
 
it's moderately high, about 70K. edit: it's actually closer to 58K now that i checked. Mega disclosed the hours upfront. he sold it to me for a bargain $100, i read these things are built like tanks but if something goes wrong it wasn't too much... now macross on the other hand.... each figure is about 300+ USD =/

hey that metal build strike freedom is hot!=)

I paid more for my 88k hour unit. :c
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Not quite. It's a Composite passthrough, it feeds the Composite signal to the TV via the CVBS / CSync pin. The TV, then, just does what it does with any encoded signal (Composite, SVideo, Component) and decodes it back to RGB for its electron beams. This is subject to limitations as the TV may or may not be able to deal with PAL, SECAM, or NTSC encoding format.

Scart is a standard designed to pass several different signals through a single connector (Composite, SVideo, RGBS, Audio). It's great for ease of use but it can create some confusion like with these adapters.

Conversion from Composite to RGB is for example what the French NES do: the PAL CVBS signal output by the VDP is decoded to RGBS via a daughterboard and transmitted through Scart to the TV. It was done so as it was believed at the time that many French TVs could only decode SECAM CVBS signals.
So basically it doesn't convert composite to RGB, it just displays composite.

Identical crappy signal, regardless.
 

Mega

Banned
I ended up buying this (yes, I paid a lot, but hey, it has the cards. Then I saw this post tonight. I should have known it was already being discussed here...

Sorry, didn't know anyone on GAF was bidding yet but figured someone here may want it (although I doubt your bidding war was with other gaffers). I know some gaffers are looking for a good CRT and I occasionally post nice finds in case someone wants it.

For what you're getting (HD, the input cards, mint condition tube most likely), I don't think you overpaid. I have two of these and they're both like new with very low hours (about 7.5k each).

update: the hours on the set is actually just a bit over 58k (not 70K), updated my original post

i found my way around and checked the hours on the set.
eTOj3r1l.jpg


Mega's pretty cool to over estimate the hours just to be on the safe side when disclosing everything about the set. thanks man!

I really thought it was closer to 80k hours :)

Sorry I did forget to mention the bent metal casing on top, skipped my mind until just now.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned

Lettuce

Member
hey guys, i'm subscribing to the thread now that i got set up:

i'm pretty excited so i'm going to share a bunch of full sized pics below:

Gst47Aw.jpg


ok! i'm ready to retro game =)

Nice sharp picture form the Sony...but it looks so clean it looks like an emulator with a CRT shader applied
 
I tried opening up my SNES, which isn't working, with this tool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F78NBQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00 and it wasn't long enough or tight enough for me to get the deeper set rivets out with. Anyone have a recommendation for a tool to open up a SNES, or a multi-console opening tool?

You have the right tool, but you need a screwdriver handle that takes interchangeable heads. Do you happen to have one around in a toolbox or something? If not you could buy one cheap at a hardware store. I had the same problem - the gamebit itself is not long enough to get the leverage you need.
 

Rich!

Member
You have the right tool, but you need a screwdriver handle that takes interchangeable heads. Do you happen to have one around in a toolbox or something? If not you could buy one cheap at a hardware store. I had the same problem - the gamebit itself is not long enough to get the leverage you need.

He could just use a set of pliers to rotate it.
 

ToD_

Member
eh... depends on your standards re-'good source'. There's a wikipedia page which -- I believe -- references Sony, but i don't think it's complete. I've seen various lists elsewhere but I can't recall them, should probably practice some google-fu.

You don't need hardware mods. You will need someone with a hardware mod to install a homebrew launcher like FMCB to a memory card and send it to you, however. There are individuals on gaf who can do that for you, though I am not one of them and I can't recall who said individuals are.

Excellent. Thanks for the info. I'll go for the fat PS2 to play it safe and stick to RGB for now considering the video output will mainly be 240p/480i.

I'm a little wary about using component, considering I wasn't really fond of using component output on my Wii for 240p (emulation). Reds and blues were blurry. For example, when starting a CPS1 or 2 game like SF2, it shows the warning/boot screen, similar to this but with a blue font:


Instead it had this blur to it that made it barely legible, which looked like chroma subsampling. Of course, this affects the entire image to some degree, but it was the worst with solid colors, in particular with thin lines like text. Is that a component limitation or is it the Wii? I'm certain it's not my monitor as it's fine with RGB sources. If this is a known Wii issue and the PS2 doesn't suffer from this, I'll opt for component cables instead.
 
I tried that and it didn't work, I could get a bite on the rivet with the tool enough to turn it with pliers. Like I said, it wasn't just the shortness but also the fit didn't seem super tight.

That's where a screwdriver handle helps. You need to press down a bit for a tight fit as you make the initial turn to loosen. You might be able to find something small and flat to apply a little downward pressure as you turn with pliers. Seriously though a screwdriver handle is simpler.
 

Peagles

Member
That's where a screwdriver handle helps. You need to press down a bit for a tight fit as you make the initial turn to loosen. You might be able to find something small and flat to apply a little downward pressure as you turn with pliers. Seriously though a screwdriver handle is simpler.

I wouldn't even attempt to use just the bit on its own. Screwdriver handle all the way. Takes your leverage to 11.
 
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