You can get a good one for like 150 bucks.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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It's probably really good from the perspective of the CRT fans, but man oh man that just isn't something I could live with. That's why I went the Framemeister route.
Seeing that on the XM29 was like seeing a fly in my soup. Egg shell in my scrambled eggs. I'm probably a little more manic and overly critical about it though.
Seeing that on the XM29 was like seeing a fly in my soup. Egg shell in my scrambled eggs. I'm probably a little more manic and overly critical about it though.
This is good...right?
I still need to do all the calibration for mine. I need to get a DC SCART cable, that seems to be the cheapest way to do it.
About what, exactly?
Honest question, is there anything macroscopically wrong with that monitor I fail to see?
What am I looking for here? I can't see any obvious geometry problems. I did just wake up though lol.
Shadow Hog
Member
Might be significantly underscanning if you've got that much blank space around the red squares. Not entirely sure.
Pretty sure the red squares don't show on my Trinitron at all, but I'm wary of adjusting the screen geometry of that one tbh.
Pretty sure the red squares don't show on my Trinitron at all, but I'm wary of adjusting the screen geometry of that one tbh.
NormalFish
Banned
the thing that always throws me is the curved screen space not lining up with the lines. drives me batty, though I know it's meant to be that way.
Yeah, geometry.
Where? Details?
Nice, looks like the big brother to my little JVC.
This is good...right?
No, expand and center both the H and V dimensions. Service menu should be Menu and Phase, or volume down and select down if your JVC has those buttons. I dunno if it's the photo angle, but it also looks like it has a concave curvature at the top and bottom edges.
Nooooo way, anyone serious about their CRT gaming wouldn't accept that in the slightest. The camera angle makes these look a little skewed, but they're close to perfect IRL and using up as much screen real estate as possible, minus the top one which has space left/right to universally accommodate all consoles due to no easy access to geometry controls.
The top and bottom edges bow inward. The left and right sides have an S curve. The combination of that heavily distorts the top left corner. So any scrolling image will have a lensing effect.
Like I said, I'm manic about it.
There's an underscan button on the set. I had it turned on.
This is without it on:
I tried looking at the service menu but I only seem to have these options:
- h position
- v position
White balance
I can't see any others.
Well, this is a sentiment I share with you. The slight - but impossible to unsee - lensing effect on the corners is what annoys me the most, about my Trinitron flatscreen (not straight geometry is another major negative, but that's something I can deal with a bit better, especially with a mid-range consumer TV, that most likely looked like that even brand new).
All that said, upscalers seem to bring up quite a few additional issues that are a proper deal-breaker for me (those problems with games that switch resolution, for instance). Just the idea of using something that would prevent me from playing a certain number of games... Nope.
IDK, I think I'm seeing what's there... If we disregard photos, how am I supposed to know if your pics are indeed better than Rich's?
I mean, I'll take you're word for it - as I know a bit about your background - but if I didn't know; and all I had to go by was pictures...
Yeah, I get that. From my perspective though, I can put up with a few games switching resolutions, but not all my games having geometry quirks.
The lower tier JVC monitor I mentioned has only these settings too. There's probably nothing more you can do unless you open it up and play with the potentiometers. edit: never mind. Can you take a pic of it? I read the manual on mine and it makes no mention of anything deeper... of course this is a 13" S-video monitor but yours and mine are enough alike that maybe there's something more hidden somewhere. The HD JVC on the other hand has a lot more options.
I know, it's just that photos are misleading. I'm obsessive about this stuff. My BVM's geometry is perfect and you wouldn't know it from photos because of the way the curved tube plays tricks on the camera.
edit -- just felt like pointing out that the BVM has an absolutely terrifying service menu. Missile is probably the only person on this entire forum who would know his way around in there.
davidwhangchoi
Member
have to agree with this part
look at the outer frame of these photos distorted by the camera;
Heh televator, by obvious I though you were gonna point out something more substantial than that. I agree with the others that's subtle enough to be affected by the photography.
Luckily for me even though I'm fussy as fuck about a lot of things, I can live with CRTs and their imperfections. Love my FM too though
Luckily for me even though I'm fussy as fuck about a lot of things, I can live with CRTs and their imperfections. Love my FM too though
Heh televator, by obvious I though you were gonna point out something more substantial than that. I agree with the others that's subtle enough to be affected by the photography.
Luckily for me even though I'm fussy as fuck about a lot of things, I can live with CRTs and their imperfections. Love my FM too though
You can clearly see the squares toward the top left are bigger than the rest. It's not a camera angle fault either since the bottom left is more consistent with the size of the squares in the rest of the picture.
Beer Monkey
Member
I'd rather have a little imperfect geometry from CRT when gaming than the horrid image quality of LCD or the lag of plasma. To each their own.
And remember, you don't play test patterns. Get the geometry as good as you can with the patterns and you'll likely never notice a single flaw when actually gaming.
And remember, you don't play test patterns. Get the geometry as good as you can with the patterns and you'll likely never notice a single flaw when actually gaming.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
This is true, there isn't any consistency between 240p Test Suite (I'm running the Sega CD version), SNES, Saturn, or Sega Genesis/CD. I guess if you're only using one system, it's easier, but it's better to compare them all.
In taking his photo, Rich is:
1. off center to the left side.
2. angling the camera to the right
3. positioned higher than the center
4. angling the camera down
All of these are contributing factors to the misperception that his monitor is a mess. I'm not saying the geometry is perfect, but it's probably a lot subtler than the photo misleads us to believe. Bring a measuring tape up to my snapshot of three monitors and you will think all of mine are fucked up too.
You have to take a photo at dead center with glass lens completely parallel to the monitor glass and at aperture settings with minimal distortion... and you still have to contend with the unavoidable tube curvature warping the image. Evaluating a monitor's geometry with pictures over the Internet is only useful when looking out for major problems like a sharply downward-sloped corner.
This is true. Before I fixed it, I had pretty busted snaking geometry along the left/right edges of my old 20M4U and literally never noticed in-game.
haha
Monitor has nice vibrant colours, glad it hasn't got any glaring issues. How did the other monitors look that the seller had?
Well...one had fucked geometry though and one was missing a button. One was sold already so I wasn't really in with much choice
However, I took my SNES and it looked fantastic. And it still does. The geometry may not be perfect, but it's significantly close to perfect now than any CRT I've ever owned
I have been using the Phillips US2-PH61150 (sold under several different brands)
http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/US2-PH61150/high-definition-automatic/overview
And I'm quite pleased with it. It does the job, switches automatically and back to the previous input, without much delay.
Three inputs on the back, one on the front, one output on the back. Does Component, Composite, and Svideo.
Though I went for this model because it was literally the only automatic model I could ever find. I had to buy it used from the USA and get a Europlug power adapter (thankfully these things are standard). There seem to be a few still like here for cheap (quote me).
But yeah, quite happy with it.
So, I need to hook this machine up to the Framemeister, and was thinking about just buying this cable from Solaris: https://solarisjapan.com/collections/micomsoft/products/d-terminal-to-component-adapter-cable.
However, that wouldnt transfer audio, so i need an audio-cable, and after participating in this thread for a while, I have the suspicion that there is a big quality difference also in audio cables. So i guess my question is, which cable should i get for the audio?
NormalFish
Banned
you should be able to get a 5-connector Component + stereo audio cable on amazon or something. Get the component -> dterminal adapter and plug audio in to the framemeister directly.
Unless you want to make your own cables, I don't think you'll have major audio issues for this implementation. Most console audio is so simple and/or compressed that you won't notice a bit of interference unless you're super sensitive to noise (which is something that quality of cable won't affect, frequently).
Unless you want to make your own cables, I don't think you'll have major audio issues for this implementation. Most console audio is so simple and/or compressed that you won't notice a bit of interference unless you're super sensitive to noise (which is something that quality of cable won't affect, frequently).
socksfelloff
Member
My new card does as well. I've spent the past few hours playing around with different programs and options but I'm not completely satisfied with the outcome.
Would you be willing to share your settings? We can take it to PM if you like. Right now I'm using AmarecTV and obs.
I realize its a 240p image being blown up but I feel its overly blury.
Why is there a green tint?=O AmarecTV is what I use as well.My new card does as well. I've spent the past few hours playing around with different programs and options but I'm not completely satisfied with the outcome.
Would you be willing to share your settings? We can take it to PM if you like. Right now I'm using AmarecTV and obs.
I realize its a 240p image being blown up but I feel its overly blury.
socksfelloff
Member
Huh. I think you're right. It matches how it looks on my CRT so I'm going to assume its the RGBs - component converter im using ( its the one everyone uses) I'll try it RGBs directly on my PVM tomorrow when I have time and see if the tint is still there. I need to make an adapter to hookup RGBs directly to my capture card.
This picture looks greenish too huh?
Edit: after looking up some screenshots, its definitely green.
NormalFish
Banned
your whites are definitely looking green.
Yep, I'm guessing you need to adjust your scart to component adapter.Huh. I think you're right. It matches how it looks on my CRT so I'm going to assume its the RGBs - component converter im using ( its the one everyone uses) I'll try it RGBs directly on my PVM tomorrow when I have time and see if the tint is still there. I need to make an adapter to hookup RGBs directly to my capture card.
This picture looks greenish too huh?
Edit: after looking up some screenshots, its definitely green.
socksfelloff
Member
I can't tell anymore. When you quote it on mobile it's all green anyway. My whole world is green!
Any idea if there are pots inside it? I'll tear it apart tomorrow.
What resolution are you capturing at?
If it's anything like the CSY2100, you should see pots that you can adjust.
Yeah you need to adjust them.
My resolution is 720x240 scan doubled to 720x480 using AmarecTV's scan doubler so 720x480 in total.
socksfelloff
Member
Shin Johnpv
Member
Yeah we do similar but she doesn't make a lot so it'd be a lot for me to ask from her.
Yeah the one I'm looking at is about 150 usually. I was going to pick one up in June, but now I'm thinking I'll get a Mega EverDrive instead......
I have little to no room for a CRT but that doesn't keep me from browsing craigslist. For 480p support, if a TV has YPbPr input can one assume 480p? Is that a false assumption? I never participated in the 480p arena when it was new. I'm thinking of the consumer grade (non-PVM/BVM) 17"-30"-ish range of CRT's.
socksfelloff
Member
False assumption. Most consumer grade CRT's do not support 480p even if they have component inputs.
HDCRT tvs do support 480p over component but they upscale everything to 720p/1080i. They even upscale 240p which loses the scanlines we all get boners for. Some claim they also add input lag.
Several models of sony PVM/BVMs support 480p over component. The NEC XM29 supports it as well.
What consoles are you looking to play on a crt?
heh, i still remember when i spotted a CRT with component inputs back in 2002. i was so excited because i thought "man, i'll finally get to see games in progressive scan!!" and then, when i bought it, turns out it didn't do 480p.
it didn't surprise me since it wasn't a high end TV and there was always this nag in the back of my mind that "there's no way a TV with progressive is that cheap".
it was funny seeing the image doubled and screwed up when activating 480p on GC. it wouldn't be until 5 years later that i'd actually see 480p on my first HDTV (a 32" plasma)
it didn't surprise me since it wasn't a high end TV and there was always this nag in the back of my mind that "there's no way a TV with progressive is that cheap".
it was funny seeing the image doubled and screwed up when activating 480p on GC. it wouldn't be until 5 years later that i'd actually see 480p on my first HDTV (a 32" plasma)
D.Lo
Member
It actually gave me the shits when professional review outlets like IGN and Gamespot went on about digital audio inclusion/quality, progressive scan and HD options in GC/XB/PS2 games back in the day. Marking games up or down by whole points based on their inclusion or otherwise.
What percentage of people had TVs and systems that could handle this? 480p CRTs were a high end blip in time. I literally have seen only one, ever, in real life in Australia, and it was in a filthy rich person's house and they paid thousands for it (it was a giant widescreen set that needed three people to carry).
I mean these days 480p is useful for fixed pixel digital-input displays, but it still doesn't look that great because the games still look best on the screens they were designed for. But developers made games for the tech of the time.
What percentage of people had TVs and systems that could handle this? 480p CRTs were a high end blip in time. I literally have seen only one, ever, in real life in Australia, and it was in a filthy rich person's house and they paid thousands for it (it was a giant widescreen set that needed three people to carry).
I mean these days 480p is useful for fixed pixel digital-input displays, but it still doesn't look that great because the games still look best on the screens they were designed for. But developers made games for the tech of the time.
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