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[televator]

I'll get excited about HDMI mods when I have an OLED (or better tech) TV with < 2 frame latency, maximum. At that point we'll also have some other nice things like an OSSC with audio support (somebody will make one, it's open source, and not everyone is as afraid of the HDMI audio licensing situation), the Garo scanliner, and more.

Lots to look forward to. Many substantial advances are going to be made on the digital display side of the retrogaming hobby. I'll stick with CRTs until then.

Yeah, there are new standards that are beginning to break away from conventional formatting already. I'm hoping that at least we get variable refresh rates on the TV side of things. Another hope is that someone figures a way to hack HDTV firmwares. I know it has been done on some Kuros, but I want it to be more common. I think it's really the only way to get really low latency going forward with smart TVs and all the extra processing they will came with.

I'm more interested in a OSSC-like device with the lag-free options AND a framebuffer for deinterlacing than an audio solution, but I -- just today in fact -- have a fully set up external audio solution now.

I 100% agree there. I really wish the OSSC could do a fancy deinterlacing job. That would have increased the cost, but I'd still pay.

 

[NormalFish]

Do you want the mods to include other connection types or were you hoping that the folks behind them were working on other stuff more relevant to your interests? I don't object to it because it fills a need for better image quality on HDTVs than analog-to-digital upscalers.

I do agree with your sentiments when it comes to stuff like the FPGA NES only having HDMI... that sucks for anyone who wanted a cheaper and more versatile alternative to a NESRGB-modded console for CRT gaming. If Kevtris does his FPGA multi console device, I'd be bummed if it too were only HDMI (he said it would be easy and almost no extra cost to add several connection types). I have a really good HDMI-Component converter which is how I muck around with the Ultra HDMI on my CRT, but I want native support for HDMI, RGB and Component on new and upcoming dedicated devices.

I'd like to see a lot of the progress made on these various improvements (good example is the deblur options on the UHDMI N64) expanded to more 'form factors'. It's unfortunate that these projects are limited by the cable they decide to wire up.

And yeah, your second comment is another thing. To the best of my knowledge, it's actually not a significant cost increase to have, say, scart instead of HDMI. It just feels like they're putting off a sizable number of people -- people with deep pockets -- excluding those still holding fast to the analogue world.

I'm not really holding my breath, but if it does, just after I converted my setup to CRT-only over this exact problem, I'm gonna be annoyed.

if you're referring to the resolution swap lag, you're still in the clear lol.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Direct link: http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini_download.htm

(frames? in 2016? sure looks like a website designed by hardware engineers...)

Seems like more settings geared at composite/s-video, some sync fixes for HDMI, some other tweaks for the minor differences between NTSC-U/J. The added A/D and sharpness options for Luma vs Chroma should be interesting given how much less resolution there is in Chroma for s-video -- probably best to turn the sharpness way the hell down for chroma but we'll see.

I'm curious if the sync fixes will help with the lag on resolution switch. As it is now my TV seems to lose all signal for a couple seconds if the resolution changes at the console output end, which doesn't make a lot of sense other than HDMI just being full of gremlins, so if it fixes that it would be great.

I'm not really holding my breath, but if it does, just after I converted my setup to CRT-only over this exact problem, I'm gonna be annoyed.

 

[socksfelloff]

Guys it finally came. I mean I ordered it yesterday but still.

Excited.

 

[televator]

Guys it finally came. I mean I ordered it yesterday but still.

Excited.

What do you plan on capturing?

 

[davidwhangchoi]

but hes talking about scanlines on the mini

oh...
i was just finding an excuse to post jill =P

 

[Timu]

Guys it finally came. I mean I ordered it yesterday but still.

Excited.

Yes, finally, someone else besides me and Madao having a capture card here, and from one that captures everything except lolRF(HDMI, VGA, Component, RGB, Svideo, Composite) and is actually good.

 

[NormalFish]

i can capture 1080p fine, just not at 60fps. can capture 720p but have no reason to.

 

[Timu]

i can capture 1080p fine, just not at 60fps. can capture 720p but have no reason to.

I didn't know that.=O

 

[Peagles]

I just got a capture card too. Will start recording in a few weeks when I finish my thesis

 

[Timu]

I just got a capture card too. Will start recording in a few weeks when I finish my thesis

You guys have capture cards and didn't tell me?=O

 

[televator]

All I know is somebody really ought to capture PS2 games running on PS2 Vs PS3 @ 480p. First one to do so gets paid in Televator fun bucks.

 

[Timu]

All I know is somebody really ought to capture PS2 games running on PS2 Vs PS3 @ 480p. First one to do so gets paid in Televator fun bucks.

I wish I had a PS3 that had BC, best I can do is PS2 classics on PS3.

 

[televator]

I wish I had a PS3 that had BC, best I can do is PS2 classics on PS3.

That'll work just as well as long you've got the same physical game to compare on PS2

 

[Peagles]

You guys have capture cards and didn't tell me?=O

This was like, yesterday

Any recommendations for a cheap HDCP stripper (like those old splitters)? Wanna go no-fuss for PS3 stuff.

 

[Timu]

This was like, yesterday

Any recommendations for a cheap HDCP stripper (like those old splitters)? Wanna go no-fuss for PS3 stuff.

I use this one but it's sold out!!!

So you should get this one or this one.

 

[Beer Monkey]

All I know is somebody really ought to capture PS2 games running on PS2 Vs PS3 @ 480p. First one to do so gets paid in Televator fun bucks.

Back when I had a first gen PS3 there was measurable lag on PS2 games.

Do the classics fix this?

 

[televator]

Back when I had a first gen PS3 there was measurable lag on PS2 games.

Do the classics fix this?

Probably not. I'd just like to see a raw PQ comparison.

 

[Peagles]

I use this one but it's sold out!!!

So you should get this one or this one.

Thank you

Weird that some reviews say they work and some don't. I guess I'll just have to take a gamble.

 

[Morfeo]

I have been using the Phillips US2-PH61150 (sold under several different brands)
http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/US2-PH61150/high-definition-automatic/overview
And I'm quite pleased with it. It does the job, switches automatically and back to the previous input, without much delay.

Three inputs on the back, one on the front, one output on the back. Does Component, Composite, and Svideo.

Though I went for this model because it was literally the only automatic model I could ever find. I had to buy it used from the USA and get a Europlug power adapter (thankfully these things are standard). There seem to be a few still like here for cheap (quote me).

But yeah, quite happy with it.

So Khaz, I finally got this in the mail (had it lying around in that Nevada warehouse you recommended for some time). Two questions, what cable to you use from this to the framemeister? And what ac adaptor did you get for it?

 

[Khaz]

So Khaz, I finally got this in the mail (had it lying around in that Nevada warehouse you recommended for some time). Two questions, what cable to you use from this to the framemeister? And what ac adaptor did you get for it?

The power adapter I got is a 12V 300mA, 5.5x2.1 connector, centre positive. Double check what's written on the switch and the original power adapter, just to be sure. Tension needs to be the same, Amperes can be the same or more.

I don't use a Framemeister, I can't help you with that.

 

[Rich!]

yessss

snes mini arrived! i wonder if I can RGB mod it before I go pick up the jvc monitor...

(obviously unfinished at that state, but I didn't take any other images)

yes! yes I can! and yeah, I sure as hell would have regretted not using resistors...this shit is brighter than I remember. This TV does not like c-sync though...I'm having to use my standard gamecube RGB cable.

 

[socksfelloff]

What do you plan on capturing?

I plan on becoming a youtube millionaire within the next month.

No really. Odds and ends. Mostly retro stuff. I think there is a severe lacking of HQ footage of many older games

Yes, finally, someone else besides me and Madao having a capture card here, and from one that captures everything except lolRF(HDMI, VGA, Component, RGB, Svideo, Composite) and is actually good.

I have an Elgato game capture HD but its a real pain in the ass. Lack of 240p via component makes it hard to capture unmolested footage

All I know is somebody really ought to capture PS2 games running on PS2 Vs PS3 @ 480p. First one to do so gets paid in Televator fun bucks.

I can do that after uncharted 4. ps3 via component for a fair comparison or HDMI?

 

[Morfeo]

The power adapter I got is a 12V 300mA, 5.5x2.1 connector, centre positive. Double check what's written on the switch and the original power adapter, just to be sure. Tension needs to be the same, Amperes can be the same or more.

I don't use a Framemeister, I can't help you with that.

Ok, thanks!

 

[televator]

I plan on becoming a youtube millionaire within the next month.

No really. Odds and ends. Mostly retro stuff. I think there is a severe lacking of HQ footage of many older games



I have an Elgato game capture HD but its a real pain in the ass. Lack of 240p via component makes it hard to capture unmolested footage



I can do that after uncharted 4. ps3 via component for a fair comparison or HDMI?

Hmm... why not both component and HDMI? My primary goal, as it were, is to get a more fair comparison of optimal video output between the PS3 and PS2 playing back PS2 games. The MLiG guys did a comparison for PS1 games and said the PS3 made things softer, but I would like to see 2 things that they did not do:

1) Set the PS3 to 480p so as to avoid as much scaling or all scaling as possible.
2) See results for PS2 games

I suppose PS1 games could also be compared on both systems as well for the sake of comparing to MLiG's PS1 results.

 

[socksfelloff]

Hmm... why not both component and HDMI? My primary goal, as it were, is to get a more fair comparison of optimal video output between the PS3 and PS2 playing back PS2 games. The MLiG guys did a comparison for PS1 games and said the PS3 made things softer, but I would like to see 2 things that they did not do:

1) Set the PS3 to 480p so as to avoid as much scaling or all scaling as possible.
2) See results for PS2 games

I suppose PS1 games could also be compared on both systems as well for the sake of comparing to MLiG's PS1 results.

Sure. Free time is pretty scarce but I'll plug away at it.

The only issue here is de-interlacing is going to play a factor. I'll need to figure out optimal de interlacing settings for the ps2 capture. Unless I test progressive only games.

I could pipe the ps2 through my dvdo edge which does an excellent job de-interlacing and upscaling 480i content but then we aren't getting a pure capture.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I would love to get a capture device, they're just so damn costly for a good one. I usually end up spending the money on games/everdrives/mods for my systems. One of these days though.

 

[flyover]

Direct link to profiles

This includes everything from NES to Wii. I can't recall off the top of my head how to install them in to the right place on your SD card, but I think there's a readme included.

Here's the website they're located at: http://firebrandx.com/pixelpurist.html

Use the FBX profiles as detailed by NormalFish, and refer to these scanline settings for you to tinker with:

I can guarantee you they look equal or better then what used to be available with 720p scanlines in the old firmware. make sure you use the 4X profiles only.

Wasn't here at all yesterday, but wanted to belatedly thank you both for your responses. Will be fun trying to finally get the Framemeister optimized for 1080p!

 

[televator]

Sure. Free time is pretty scarce but I'll plug away at it.

The only issue here is de-interlacing is going to play a factor. I'll need to figure out optimal de interlacing settings for the ps2 capture. Unless I test progressive only games.

I could pipe the ps2 through my dvdo edge which does an excellent job de-interlacing and upscaling 480i content but then we aren't getting a pure capture.

It could be simpler to capture 480i images while the game is still for PS2 hardware. Assuming the capture device you have doesn't do line doubling only for 480i, even a simple weave deinterlace will yield good result as long as the game is still. No camera panning or fast motion of any sort.

I appreciate you entertaining all this btw. I know I'm quite demanding, but when it comes to getting good captures there's not much choice but to be rather controlling. Hehe

 

[Madao]

This was like, yesterday

Any recommendations for a cheap HDCP stripper (like those old splitters)? Wanna go no-fuss for PS3 stuff.

I use this one but it's sold out!!!

So you should get this one or this one.

the one i use is this but it was way cheaper when i got it.
it's been behaving like a champ. everything i've shown in this thread passes through it since i got this to get rid of HDCP on my receiver (was for PS3 only at first but then i figured out rearranging connections made it more useful)
the way it's used is to plug the source signal using a HDMI to DVI wire and a separate audio wire and then the device combines back the signals but "forgets" about the HDCP. it's also helpful my TV has an optical audio output (my receiver let me down for this).

 

[socksfelloff]

It could be simpler to capture 480i images while the game is still for PS2 hardware. Assuming the capture device you have doesn't do line doubling only for 480i, even a simple weave deinterlace will yield good result as long as the game is still. No camera panning or fast motion of any sort.

I appreciate you entertaining all this btw. I know I'm quite demanding, but when it comes to getting good captures there's not much choice but to be rather controlling. Hehe

I'm interested in this stuff as well. I'm currently hiding at work researching lol.

As for no fast motion or panning I think the purpose of the comparison should be "the best way to play ps2 games on a modern tv" if the game looks like shit while actually playing it that's kinda useless. I'll be doing still frames and video though.

I belive you provided some solid input on my gamecube comparison? When I'm ready to start capturing some footage I'll pm you and we can put together a game plan

 

[Madao]

the one thing i'm not liking with newer TVs is that the newest ones with 4K and lower input lag are massive 60 inches monsters. my room has no room for those things. the sub 50 inches models seem to usually have more lag for some reason.

regarding video capture off screen? any recommendations about preferred types of cameras? the only camera i have is my smartphone camera (lol) and the only camcorder i've got is a SD one from like 10 years ago (used it to test the UHDMI lag vs CRT) and those aren't so good to show how games actually look on the TV.

 

[Rich!]

So yeah I realised earlier when testing out my SFC Jr that I've definitely made the right decision going back to CRTs.

You really do forget just how much input lag matters until you try a CRT again. Especially on something like Mario World.

Goddamn technology. It's like, HD is cool and all, but response time is crucial.

 

[socksfelloff]

So yeah I realised earlier when testing out my SFC Jr that I've definitely made the right decision going back to CRTs.

You really do forget just how much input lag matters until you try a CRT again. Especially on something like Mario World.

Goddamn technology. It's like, HD is cool and all, but response time is crucial.

I'm sitting here thinking about all the old rich posts about how emulation is superior lol.

I always enjoy your posts. Glad to see you over here in CRT land.(untill you get banned again)

 

[Rich!]

I'm sitting here thinking about all the old rich posts about how emulation is superior lol.

I always enjoy your posts. Glad to see you over here in CRT land.

Heh, I never said emulation is superior as a whole...just that emulation is amazing. Having such a wide library of classic consoles accurately preserved for the future is great. And retroarch is a superb way to experience them.

But nothing beats the real thing.

And bro, I haven't been banned for two months! Things are looking up!

Sure beats being banned once a month

 

[socksfelloff]

Heh, I never said emulation is superior as a whole...just that emulation is amazing. Having such a wide library of classic consoles accurately preserved for the future is great. And retroarch is a superb way to experience them.

But nothing beats the real thing.

And bro, I haven't been banned for two months! Things are looking up!

Sure beats being banned once a month

I'm with ya on that one. Emulation is crucial for the future but while it's around I'll stick to crts and old ass consoles.

Has it really been 2 months? You're gaf rehabilitation must have been a success!

 

[NormalFish]

yes! yes I can! and yeah, I sure as hell would have regretted not using resistors...this shit is brighter than I remember. This TV does not like c-sync though...I'm having to use my standard gamecube RGB cable.

Did you wire up csync? I'm pretty sure it takes a bit of extra effort to get it out of the mini.

 

[Peagles]

I would love to get a capture device, they're just so damn costly for a good one. I usually end up spending the money on games/everdrives/mods for my systems. One of these days though.

That's what husbands are for <3

Also thanks Madao, I'll check that one out too!

 

[Khaz]

I'm cool with emulation, ROM dumping / reproduction is a necessity and the hardware to read cartridges can break too. FPGA is getting there so we can appreciate modern recreations of old hardware without any drawback. But everything still needs to be plugged to a CRT to experience "the real thing". I doubt we will ever see a good modern display that can mimic perfectly a CRT (zero lag, progressive scan). All the efforts seem to be geared towards the visuals of old school, with complex filters to recreate the look of phosphors.

 

[Madao]

the tech advance i'd really like to see is display tech that eliminates input lag for modern and future consoles. with that, you could rely on emulation better to reproduce old stuff down the line.

 

[NormalFish]

in theory, a 4k variable-sync OLED monitor should allow for extremely accurate emulation in terms of CRT filters, input lag, and refresh rate.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

That's what husbands are for <3

lol I wish I could say that's what wives/gfs are for back but I make way more than my gf does.

 

[Rich!]

Did you wire up csync? I'm pretty sure it takes a bit of extra effort to get it out of the mini.

Yep.

Anyhow I got my jvc! It's awesome. There aren't huge gaps between the scanlines but I was expecting that. But the geometry is spot on and the colours are awesome

 

[Beer Monkey]

Virtual Console (on Wii, not Wii U) emulation with its low latency and 240p component output is a godsend.

Likewise for PS1 on PSP. Perfect 240p output, imperceptible lag, virtually impossible to tell from the original console.

Of course, the vast majority of classic platforms aren't covered by this.

 

[Peagles]

lol I wish I could say that's what wives/gfs are for back but I make way more than my gf does.

Ahh I see. For us it's not about how much we make, it's more that we buy stuff for each other that we wouldn't buy for ourselves. Like, I could afford one, but I was always putting it off. We usually hoard that kind of cool stuff during the year for birthdays and Christmas, but the next one isn't til September.

Plus he wants me to start a YouTube channel, so I guess it was some encouragement too.

 

[Rich!]

 

[Galdelico]

Looks sweet!
What's the size of that beast?

 

[Timu]

No really. Odds and ends. Mostly retro stuff. I think there is a severe lacking of HQ footage of many older games



I have an Elgato game capture HD but its a real pain in the ass. Lack of 240p via component makes it hard to capture unmolested footage

I capture in high quality on youtube for retro games.

Also, my capture card captures 240p component.

 

[Rich!]

Looks sweet!
What's the size of that beast?

Heh, hardly a beast! It's 17"

I unfortunately have noticed a tiny bit of burn in, but it's barely visible at the bottom of the screen

 

[televator]

I'm interested in this stuff as well. I'm currently hiding at work researching lol.

As for no fast motion or panning I think the purpose of the comparison should be "the best way to play ps2 games on a modern tv" if the game looks like shit while actually playing it that's kinda useless. I'll be doing still frames and video though.

I belive you provided some solid input on my gamecube comparison? When I'm ready to start capturing some footage I'll pm you and we can put together a game plan

Deinterlacing on native PS2 output is a variable that will depend on how any given person's devices handle 480i. Hypothetically, if 480i in motion on your device causes the combing artifact, my TV will actually use full motion adaptive deinterlacing and not have that artifact. Another persons device or TV might simply line double 480i and cause it to look a lot softer and far less detailed than either of our setups. By capturing 480i PS2 output with minimal motion, we can get a good baseline of picture detail before deinterlacing and line doubling. That's just my opinion on that and you are of course free to proceed however you see fit.

Edit: Now that I think about it... Perhaps the best "baseline" capture for PS2 hardware 480i may be capturing what the Framemeister does... IDK if you have a FM, but this is the most widely used device amongst us for deinterlacing 480i. The FM actually does full motion adaptive processing too.

I did instruct Madao on how to get a more fair comparison for N64 RGB analog Vs RGB HDMI. Madao was a real trooper and came through with some of the best comparison images ever. I'm am grateful tha Madao put up with my constant nagging.