Hooooly crap
How do I know? I don't want to take a knife to it or make it worse if mine doesn't have it.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Hooooly crap
How do I know? I don't want to take a knife to it or make it worse if mine doesn't have it.
socksfelloff
Member
to be fair you are comparing it to the greatest consumer CRT line the world ever saw.
my 27fs120 looks fantastic. I use my BVM for playing on my own but I don't have any issues moving to the bigger set for multiplayer games with friends.
Can't say for sure. I would just live with it than risk messing up a like-new monitor. A couple of my past monitors had a couple of scratches. It was the sort of thing I only noticed when using 240p Suite and "testing" the screen quality with certain games, staring intently at the monitor and taking pics but not really playing, etc. Not much of an issue when actually engrossed in a game.
Yep it ain't really an issue.
The best fix anyhow would be to swap the casing with the other one. Should be easy enough.
Either that or just some acrylic filler
You're right, and I'm really not that disappointed. It was a test, and the PVM itself in the end cost me a little more than getting it shipped, so I don't feel like I wasted too much money on it.
The only thing that irks me a bit is, I spoke with the owner a few times, and - even if I knew which model I was going to buy, and how old and barebones it was - he told me stuff that just turned out to be not true, especially about settings. Lesson learned for the next time, should I ever have the chance to grab another one.
NormalFish
Banned
What systems are you looking at? How important is input lag to you?
Mainly Genesis, N64 and PS1 some Saturn too. Input lag is decently important. I like playing fighters but not competitively.
NormalFish
Banned
Well then the XRGB Framemeister is probably a good bet. Can process everything from those systems pretty painlessly, though the N64 in particular might be a little unpleasant to the eyes relative to the recent HDMI mod for the console.
Alternatively, you could get a classic line doubler or the OSSC that's currently in the process of being released. They have less features, and only really help you out with 240p and 480i (Which, for you, encapsulates everything within those consoles), but they'll generally offer a lagless experience and typically less visual noise than the framemeister.
It's a bit of a toss up. The Framemeister is only ~1-2 frames of input lag (which is less than many displays' built in upscalers), but when you add in your TV's natural response time you might find it too significant. Personally I find the lag negligible, but I play on a PC monitor without much lag or processing of any kind.
Go with an XRGB-3 and a PC monitor with VGA. Much less input lag than the Framemeister with the B1 mode. (2ms)
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-3#Does_XRGB-3_add_input_lag_.3F
geniusbits
Member
I emailed them TWICE and tried to comment on the CL post but didn't get an answer. Now the post is "expired" after 7 days, which I believe means taken down. Did anyone here pick those up? I was beyond excited at the prospect of driving to Manhattan and picking up seven 20" and one 14" good monitors for free. Am now crushed.
geniusbits
Member
I had the same problem with my Apple TV. I believe those devices are secured against pirating content to stream online with HDCP and see devices the Framemeister as a capture device (most of Micomsoft's products are) and so doesn't play nice with them.
Kiddy Dong
Member
Found a phillips widescreen HD CRT on the curb yesterday, I decided to take it home and see what it could do. The picture was very good, except for a major problem with the convergence resulting in a 'splitting image' of everything on screen. Also, input lag. Needless to say it's back out on the curb.
It breaks my heart that all the HD CRTs I try are messed up somehow, being a huge fan of the 6th/7th gen consoles. Why is lagless 480p such an insurmountable goal short of a 20L5?
It breaks my heart that all the HD CRTs I try are messed up somehow, being a huge fan of the 6th/7th gen consoles. Why is lagless 480p such an insurmountable goal short of a 20L5?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
It breaks my heart that all the HD CRTs I try are messed up somehow, being a huge fan of the 6th/7th gen consoles. Why is lagless 480p such an insurmountable goal short of a 20L5?
Get an EDTV.
Beer Monkey
Member
OSSC is a lot cheaper!
How much does it cost?
Found a phillips widescreen HD CRT on the curb yesterday, I decided to take it home and see what it could do. The picture was very good, except for a major problem with the convergence resulting in a 'splitting image' of everything on screen. Also, input lag. Needless to say it's back out on the curb.
It breaks my heart that all the HD CRTs I try are messed up somehow, being a huge fan of the 6th/7th gen consoles. Why is lagless 480p such an insurmountable goal short of a 20L5?
Or any CRT computer monitor. Cheapest and easiest 480p. Still easy to find these brand new, so you can get a nice sharp picture and save a lot of money and hassle by not tracking down a rare and possibly worn PVM.
If you need 240p and scanlines, get a separate 15Khz display that doesn't take up that much extra space. I know it's nice to have one box that does it all, but if you really wanna get that lagless 480p now there's nothing stopping you.
Probably about 200 bucks. They aren't available yet.
NormalFish
Banned
Wouldn't be surprised if this dropped a bit with time, too.
Yes, but to output a 240p signal your monitor can display you need a properly configured PC with Win 8 or earlier OS and Radeon HD 7xxx or earlier video card. It's otherwise easy. Five months ago this was a bigger pain in the ass.
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
Worth it though (need new pics of the MAME games I've played since I took these...)
Good luck!
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
Worth it though (need new pics of the MAME games I've played since I took these...)
Good luck!
That's...way lower than I expected!!!
I'm looking to do a home project this summer for retro gaming and have 3 questions I hope can be answered-
Up to what generation can a Raspberry Pi 2 run stable and glitch-free?
Are there better alternatives than Pi 2 and what generation can they run?
What retail options / custom guides would you recommend for a 4 player arcade style setup?
Up to what generation can a Raspberry Pi 2 run stable and glitch-free?
Are there better alternatives than Pi 2 and what generation can they run?
What retail options / custom guides would you recommend for a 4 player arcade style setup?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Beer Monkey
Member
No Pi can accurately emulate the SNES. You need at least a 3ghz processor for that.
You probably won't notice with most titles, but there will absolutely be glitches in some if you look hard enough.
Personally if I were really serious about a project like yours I'd be building a small form factor PC with an ArcadeVGA video card with analog out. But I'm obsessive. That's why I'm in this thread.
actually, byuu (developer of bsnes/higan) corrected me on that exact same claim a while back. I'll try and find the post if I can later. Accurate emulation of the SNES (ie. bsnes) does not take 3ghz anymore by any stretch. And he should know.
Anyhow, I know a lot about emulation on the Pi (built a SNES Pi console, sold it recently). Every game I tried ran superbly well on snes9x retroarch core. Like, really, really well to the point where it was indistinguishable to the real thing. The differences popped up when playing games like Yoshi's Island and other special chip games which...were poor.
Thanks I'll check it out.
This piqued my interest. How much would a project like that, a small form factor PC with an ArcadeVGA video card with analog out., run me?
let me know if you find the link. thanks
Beer Monkey
Member
OK, apparently my knowledge is out of date and I'm happy to be corrected. I would like the info because this is something I have interest in.
I'm not really current on pricing. There's a wide range depending on cooling, case, etc.
NormalFish
Banned
I'd think you could probably get a PC that could do it (assuming you buy used and cheap) for ~150$, but something better might be closer to 3-400. Definitely more costly than a Pi.
You might be able to find an old prebuilt unit for super cheap, though.
You might be able to find an old prebuilt unit for super cheap, though.
found it
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=182161295
in response to me incorrectly claiming bsnes requires 3ghz...
Sure it does
From my $99 netbox:
You're only off by more than 500% for 99% of the library.
And by more than 300% for the most demanding games.
...
But this is kind of my fault. I said you'd need up to 3GHz for the most demanding games with my extreme pixel-accurate PPU core. Because that mode is literally hundreds of times more accurate than any other emulators.
Try this (public domain) ROM in your favorite SNES emulator to see why that's important: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5g9qocjlqvkng1/atx2-mode7.sfc?dl=0
I don't want people who've never tried bsnes to think you absolutely need a top-end processor, because that's not true at all.
It hasn't run well on portable devices because nobody's bothered to optimize bsnes for them at all. ARM's a very different architecture with tons of severe weaknesses that amd64 lacks. But if someone put in even half the effort that goes into all the Snes9X ports, I'm confident bsnes would run perfectly well on things like the nVidia Shield.
Beer Monkey
Member
byuu said:
That sounds to me like a Pi is out of the question for an optimized bsnes.
speedlolita
Member
Ew emulation. (Sorry!)
ew, 99.9% accurate emulation? BSNES is as good as a real SNES, both literally and in terms of convenience.
Anyhow...I fixed the scratch on my PVM screen. Guess how? Toothpaste. Really.
of course. But a gigabyte brix runs it just fine. And not for much more:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KR0QHXW/
NormalFish
Banned
if you don't need 3Ghz, you could probably do it for 100$ or less, that simplifies things quite a bit lol.
yep!
get a gigabyte brix and you're sorted for any emulation up to gamecube
and from what I see, it has vga out...and can output at 240p at 15khz
Beer Monkey
Member
I'm not really a huge emulation snob (though I do use only real hardware mostly, including for SNES).
The problem is lots of emulators is latency, and scaling. The latency issue can be exacerbated when you try to get analog out on lots of platforms these days, and the scaling too!
The original classic consoles run in a wide variety of modes (timings) like 256x240, 320x240, 320x480i, 640x480i, 720x480i, and in slightly different aspect ratios. They render to frame buffers (when they actually HAVE frame buffers) using those resolutions but also oddball stuff like 256x212, but this can be addressed with blank lines (larger vertical blanking interval).
Can a Pi output that via 256x240 via RGB? HDMI? Nah, it's getting scaled to 640x480. This causes visual fidelity to suffer.
There are more resolutions than I mentioned, and if you throw arcade in there, forget about it! There are tons more.
Something like an ArcadeVGA card can output all these modes in RGB, and present the proper frame buffer to the emulator to render do. Here are just the 240p modes that it can output natively:
240x240
256x240
288x240
296x240
304x240
320x240
336x240
368x240
392x240
448x240
512x240
640x240
A Pi is going to scale a lot of the time. There's a reason a bunch of people went nuts for the new pixel-accurate mode for SNES games on 3DS. Because the scaling really hurt the image.
^ArcadeVGA has been surpassed by CRT Emudriver paired with a cheap Radeon card. I think ArcadeVGA comes with like 30 pre-made modes, but Emudriver auto-generates up to 120 based on what's in your actual MAME library and you can always manually add your own. It's fantastic.
espgaluda pcb versus groovymame: Which is which ?
Not all emulation is bad.
espgaluda pcb versus groovymame: Which is which ?
Not all emulation is bad.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
So how did shmupmame handle the latency issue, and how off is it still?
Also, in that comparison, above, I think the PCB is in the cab on the left.
Also, in that comparison, above, I think the PCB is in the cab on the left.
NormalFish
Banned
set up mame just yesterday. It's amazing.
Still going to buy and play inferior console ports more, but god it's awesome.
I'm a total scrub, but I've been using mameui64 and had no issues thus far outside of some UI quirks.
Input lag on PC is really dependent on your setup.
You have one frame of lag based on the emulator that you can't avoid. If the emulator isn't good, it can give more lag, but one frame is inherent to the emulation process. Processing the picture (adding fancy filters) can add lag too. Then you have the problem of your display which can add a massive amount of lag. A good computer monitor would have no post processing and would add a minimum amount of lag (a fraction of a frame). If you're not using the native resolution of your display then add another frame for the upscaling. Windows itself is trash in that regard, with some double or triple buffering that adds two or three more frames of lag. The maker of the PC-Engine emulator Ootake talks about it here and here. I don't know if it was solved in newer Windows, but I doubt it. Finally your controller can give you lag. USB is fine but bluetooth is a slow mess that wasn't designed for twitch controls: I don't remember the exact number, but you can add about another frame. Controllers with a dedicated wireless solution like the xbox 360 or the Logitech 2.4GHz stuff are better in that regard.
You have one frame of lag based on the emulator that you can't avoid. If the emulator isn't good, it can give more lag, but one frame is inherent to the emulation process. Processing the picture (adding fancy filters) can add lag too. Then you have the problem of your display which can add a massive amount of lag. A good computer monitor would have no post processing and would add a minimum amount of lag (a fraction of a frame). If you're not using the native resolution of your display then add another frame for the upscaling. Windows itself is trash in that regard, with some double or triple buffering that adds two or three more frames of lag. The maker of the PC-Engine emulator Ootake talks about it here and here. I don't know if it was solved in newer Windows, but I doubt it. Finally your controller can give you lag. USB is fine but bluetooth is a slow mess that wasn't designed for twitch controls: I don't remember the exact number, but you can add about another frame. Controllers with a dedicated wireless solution like the xbox 360 or the Logitech 2.4GHz stuff are better in that regard.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Cross posting from Retro-GAF thread, if I'm breaking any rules, let me know and I'll edit.
My Omega has arrived! I am quite happy with it, I've been playing it nonstop since it arrived.
Some off screen shots; sorry for the phone camera quality.
...and lastly, weird ass Terry from the multicart game selection menu.
My Omega has arrived! I am quite happy with it, I've been playing it nonstop since it arrived.
Got some MVS cart shockboxes, too! (I actually have a 161-in-1 multicart.)
Some off screen shots; sorry for the phone camera quality.
...and lastly, weird ass Terry from the multicart game selection menu.
Hey GAF,
Please help me out. I was recently gifted a Sony BVM A20F1U. I think it's very cool, but I really don't know how to make use of it yet because I seem to be missing some parts.
I want to use it for my NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. From what I've read, I'll need some BNC to SCART cables, a switcher, etc; kinda figured that part out.
But the monitor is missing an analog/component input adaptor called the BKM-68X.
I checked eBay, and nothing is on sale. Wondering if anyone knew where I can get one, or if there are any alternatives to this? Any help would be appreciated.
Please help me out. I was recently gifted a Sony BVM A20F1U. I think it's very cool, but I really don't know how to make use of it yet because I seem to be missing some parts.
I want to use it for my NES, SNES, Genesis, etc. From what I've read, I'll need some BNC to SCART cables, a switcher, etc; kinda figured that part out.
But the monitor is missing an analog/component input adaptor called the BKM-68X.
I checked eBay, and nothing is on sale. Wondering if anyone knew where I can get one, or if there are any alternatives to this? Any help would be appreciated.
geniusbits
Member
Unfortunately that's the problem with that model, the input cards are rare and when they do pop up on eBay they cost more than many pay for the monitor.
I was afraid of that. I guess I'll keep looking for one. If anyone here has one, or knows of where to get one, please let me know. Or if you have info on another way to hook up my consoles to the BVM, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for the reply.
^That input card is the only way for RGB and Component with the Sony A monitors. I've seen it pop up only twice in the past year on eBay and it's $$$. So you may find yourself waiting months just to fork over hundreds. I'd sell the monitor if I were you and use that to buy a CRT that's actually usable.
Looks awesome. Omega is definitely the way to go for a consolized MVS. I have one from JNX, another great alternative. It looks plain but it works just as well and I like that it's very compact, a little bigger than the cartridge itself.
Looks awesome. Omega is definitely the way to go for a consolized MVS. I have one from JNX, another great alternative. It looks plain but it works just as well and I like that it's very compact, a little bigger than the cartridge itself.
davidwhangchoi
Member
toothpaste is an abrasive, (which like mild sand paper doesn't work on that)
you can use Future as well (clear floor polish) to fill in the scratch.
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