Get a good camera and have good lighting in the room, it makes all the difference.
And that's why I really don't do that personally.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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And that's why I really don't do that personally.
Zelkian, tweak each one and see what effect it has on the screen. It's usually really obvious. I find fixing the convergence to be the easiest thing to do on a BVM. It's either right or it isn't. Color, contrast and geometry are a bigger pain.
For me, it's the opposite. Get a good camera, good lens and a tripod and shoot with dim/no lighting to avoid reflections and the perceived lower contrast of ambient lighting. But really if you have a good smartphone, that will do. I typed out what I do here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204224236&postcount=15904
For me, it's the opposite. Get a good camera, good lens and a tripod and shoot with dim/no lighting to avoid reflections and the perceived lower contrast of ambient lighting. But really if you have a good smartphone, that will do. I typed out what I do here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204224236&postcount=15904
I grabbed an RCA-BNC adapter at lunch to test out tonight in the hopes the issues lie in the S-Video cable/connection. *crosses fingers* When I turn it on there is a greenish tint that aligns in the screen (not all jumbled like the SNES image) so that is giving me hope lol.
hey hey!, turns out someone is an idiot (me) and didn't see the H/V Delay button was pressed. Works great now! Some overscan at the top but I expected I would be doing some tweaking.
hey hey!, turns out someone is an idiot (me) and didn't see the H/V Delay button was pressed. Works great now! Some overscan at the top but I expected I would be doing some tweaking.
I'm considering it... though I'm still in the middle of some heavy reading. Turns out the analog standards really put an... accent in the way subsampling was practiced.
Here's what crazy thing I'm looking at right now.
Looks to me like shifting chroma pixels in spatial relation to luma ones was something that worked just fine and dandy in the analog days. I can't see that working at all in fixed pixel tech. Thus why 601 material needs to be converted to 709. I assume modern displays unfuck this by simply reshifting pixel info back to where it overlays neatly on their fixed pixel matrices.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Where are you sourcing your chroma subsampling info from? Especially re analog.
That PDF deals with digital YUV. In pure analog video domain samples don't really exist. If you have an RGB analog to YUV transcoder (that doesn't first convert to digital... for no reason) I'd expect 100% chroma info minus the usual minor loss in the conversion from RGB->YUV in the first place.
The only other way you'd lose chroma detail in analog would be if there just isn't enough actual signal strength, like in NTSC RF or composite where the horizontal resolution is just mud because there isn't enough space in the signal itself to distinguish small enough points.
That PDF deals with digital YUV. In pure analog video domain samples don't really exist. If you have an RGB analog to YUV transcoder (that doesn't first convert to digital... for no reason) I'd expect 100% chroma info minus the usual minor loss in the conversion from RGB->YUV in the first place.
The only other way you'd lose chroma detail in analog would be if there just isn't enough actual signal strength, like in NTSC RF or composite where the horizontal resolution is just mud because there isn't enough space in the signal itself to distinguish small enough points.
Analog<-->digital subsampling still confuses the hell out of me. There's not a lot I can find online, though I did find a couple of good pages. They don't go into too much detail that directly relates to this hobby and its analog<-->digital symbiosis.
Edit: To clarify, I understand that "sampling" isn't really an analog thing, but what does a CRT do differently than an LCD with the kind of pre-sampled methods in that article?
Where'd you get it?
I did not see much (or any) difference between Nintendont in vWii 480p and Dolphin 480p upscaled to 1080p on my plasma. I'm starting to think my TV has a crappy upscaler and connecting a Wii or Gamecube won't produce better results. I have a couple pics of Mario, but it's in the text where you can really see something is really off. No two of the same letter are alike. They're all weird and misshaped.
Full size links
Nintendont/vWii http://i.imgur.com/swmXf8F.jpg
Dolphin http://i.imgur.com/vOkETnu.jpg
Nintendont/vWii ---- Dolphin
Just a local auction site. Although it looks like they messed up the description and it only does VGA to HDMI (it looked like it did SCART etc too but I don't think that's the case).
Should be fun to mess with anyway!
Here's a photo I snapped of the battery icons:
WiiU set to 1080p Widescreen
This is the worst case scenario and the difference between yours an mine is interesting. Save for the P in P2, my icons are more uniform than yours.
Imgur still not agreeing with me posting pic on tablet I see... Can someone fix that for me?
Edit: fixed, thanks to peagles. looks like i need to ensure .jpg is at the end of my linked images.
Or due to filter wear (deforming of the pass band characteristic etc).
Skip these articles if you haven't any proper understanding of filters.
Learn about analog and digital filters first or you will always get it wrong!
(edit: from the ground up I mean!)
I'm stunned. One of my mates may have proved some worth.
He used to work for a production company and on my request, asked if they still had any production monitors.
They said he can have one, no charge. I would have to just go and pick it up. There's a few 14" ones, but there's also a BVM-20G1E. I can't find much info on that model...what's it like?
edit: apparently that one is faulty. dream is dead.
He used to work for a production company and on my request, asked if they still had any production monitors.
They said he can have one, no charge. I would have to just go and pick it up. There's a few 14" ones, but there's also a BVM-20G1E. I can't find much info on that model...what's it like?
edit: apparently that one is faulty. dream is dead.
I do what I can with Google, but I'm afraid I wouldn't really know where to find such info in a manner that is digestible for someone of my mathematical lacking... I've looked for filtering methods by name and I come up with either nothing or a wall of math. *shrugs*
NormalFish
Banned
what is it you're looking for in another monitor?
No scratches in the glass, for one thing
I'm just gonna completely forget about it now. My JVC is fine. I think my plan for now is to just wait until my tribunal date next month against HMRC and get a framemeister with part of the damages.
Based the two pictures I took and yours, my WiiU@480p pic looks similar to your 1080p pic, maybe a little better or worse. But your 1080 pic looks much better than my awful 1080p image.
Did you take your pics after starting the game? I didn't see bad distortion in that battery menu until after I booted into a game. I should retry it with Skyward Sword too if that's what you're using. Maybe not all games scale equally as bad?
Forget about "Google" while learning real stuff.
You only need complex numbers (high-school maths) for the most part.
An Analog RC Lowpass Filter
Code:
-*--- R ---*--*
| |
u0 C u1
| |
-*---------*--*setup: R = 1MOhm, C = (1/2*Pi)µF ~ 0.159µF, u0 = 1V input, u1 output
Do the following
(a) compute the impedance Z(w) of the RC lowpass filter over all frequencies
(b) plot the magnitude and phase of the impedance over the range [0,10Hz]
(c) compute the -3db cutoff frequency f0 in Hz from (a)
(d) compute (or read off) the magnitude and phase at f0
Hints:
(a)
use the (complex) voltage divider rule, i.e. Z := U1/U0 = R1/(R1+R0)
plot mag(w) := |Z(w)| and phase(w) := arg(Z(w))
for what w0 (w0 := 2*Pi*f0) does U1 = U0/sqrt(2) hold? (set U0 = 1)
plug w0 into mag(w) and phase(w)
If you can do all this, then do a high-pass filter. Same logic. Go from here.
Ah, I was going by the use of "maths"!
^ Am still confused whether it's math or maths. xD Anyone?!
What you do now and what you want to do in the, well, future?
xD lol
Honestly I like the 240p composite blurry output because that was what the games back then were designed around. When you start cleaning up the image to the point where it's pixel perfect, a lot of the effects lose their visual fidelity.
Take Sonic's shield for example, when you clean it up, it looks gross (just a checkerboard mesh), when it looks much better in the blurry 240p composite.
Take Sonic's shield for example, when you clean it up, it looks gross (just a checkerboard mesh), when it looks much better in the blurry 240p composite.
Nah it's just how we speak in Britain
Mathematics - Maths. Because "math" would imply we only have to deal with one calculation before fucking off home.
Me and my mates used to spend our lunch breaks throwing rocks at each other. Fun times.
Beer Monkey
Member
I said screw it and added a Wii to my HDTV setup (meaning I now have Wii U, Wii, Xbox One, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4, and PC hooked up...six consoles and a computer) and I'm much happier. The Kuro 480p scaling beats the Wii U's scaling to my eye, and less overall lag.
The crazy thing is I pretty much just use it for playing Bomberman '93 and '94 with friends on the big screen. I have another Wii for the CRT. But you can easily get a Wii for like 20 bucks these days, so why not have a few.
NormalFish
Banned
Maths is a britishism. It actually makes sense. Why do we say "mathematics" and "math"? One plural and one singular?
**
hadn't refreshed, rich got it.
**
hadn't refreshed, rich got it.
There was a discussion about it somewhere. I prefer to write math, but....
Btw; "math." is the German abbreviation for mathematics seen in titles etc.
(like; Mr. Dipl-math. Rich! xD)
So you saved up a lot of time for doing other good stuff. Not too bad.
What are the guys from the US saying in this case?
I'd rather have checkerboard gross than dot crawl, bleeding edges gross.
There's a middle ground though. And I don't necessarily agree with the second part of your first sentence.
If you look at the same game in low resolution monitor through lossless RGB, the effect is still maintained rather well and not too checkerboardy.
I think people also underestimate how much scan lines reduce the checkerboard look of stuff too.
I still play NES via composite on my PVM and it's very acceptable if you can stomach the dot crawl.
It just takes a sh!t load of time. That's it.
(Well, it's not really that difficult. But don't tell anyone! xD)
I see.
Edit:
xD
Beer Monkey
Member
I do hate dot crawl and bleed. Svid can be a nice compromise for those who want a more faithful, yet clean, image.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
S-video's only a little bit fuzzy, it's much closer to RGB than the other way around. You'll still see dithering as checkerboards.
If you really want to smear up your image composite style, you can just run rgb/s-video and turn on a horizontal blur.
I hear vaseline works too
I actually have used vaseline on my JVC. It's filled in the scratch on it better than anything else I found
I don't get the joke.
It's console dependent but generally should be acceptable from most systems.
I think it was NormalFish that posted a really cool selective blur filter (for a CRT shader?) that only blends parts of the image with checkerboard patterns while maintaining the overall picture's perfect clarity. That needs to be the solution in emulators and mods going forward, not stepping back down to Composite! I would rather use S-video if the clarity of RGB was an issue.
Through an emulator or can that be done with a device like Extron hardware?
If ever the programmers of old would have used better dither patterns.
(I guess the best patterns were kept a good secret.)
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I just turned on the low-pass filter on my framemeister for the few games that really make heavy use of dithering transparency. I'm not sure what you could do on a CRT -- is there a horizontal sharpness control on PVMs typically? That might work if you could jack that way down but then uh maybe it's easier to just not.
Beer Monkey
Member
I can see dither when playing Street Fighter Alpha or Vampire Hunter on my Saturn with RGB monitor, but I also see dither in the Capcom arcade cabinets in the barcades around town. And I did 20 years ago as well.
It isn't something that is new. I don't really view it the same way as the Sonic transparency effects where the artists and programmers were designing the art for composite video.
It isn't something that is new. I don't really view it the same way as the Sonic transparency effects where the artists and programmers were designing the art for composite video.
I don't get the joke.
I read it as since you didn't learn math you must have been very productive doing something else! I thought it was funny in general; not specifically related to you.
In other news, I got an email from HD Retrovison, the Genesis and SNES cables go on sale July 3rd, $44/ea.
email in full:
I read it as since you didn't learn math you must have been very productive doing something else! I thought it was funny in general; not specifically related to you.
Oh I see! Yes, I was busy playing N64 at home, playing Pokémon on Gameboy, getting into Pokémon TCG, and drawing in class instead of studying and doing my math homework. Very productive!
Yup, you can adjust the vertical and horizontal focus. On most CRTs, it may be pots on the inside or back. Seems like there's an on-screen setting in the maintenance menu of BVMs. May have to give that a try, seems easy enough. Thanks for the suggestion!
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