Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite
Genesis, Sega CD, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and Wii versions are available.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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Genesis, Sega CD, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and Wii versions are available.
lostinblue
Banned
^ Some later Dreamcasts do.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, they do. Particularly the PS1, which looks dramatically better than it does without an XRGB of some sort.
Absolutely.
If you dial in the right settings you can achieve spectacular results with 480i and 480p content.
I just put this up for fun. Intro to RRV piped through an XRGB. I have it set to output a very sharp image without any additional filtering but it looks nice. RRV is a very jaggy game and the fields often go out of sync so it's a tough one. A lot of other PS2 games look much cleaner even.
http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_ridge_racer_v_intro-fdA7pZ65XVeRH0VR_en.html
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Wow, that actually looked really good. I wonder if it'd be worth getting a Framemeister just for the Gen 6 stuff.
lostinblue
Banned
They work with everything needing to be scaled.
For PSone and before everything is 240p, for PS2 it's already for the most part 480i. Hence they have different needs.
There's a huge compilation here:
-> http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
Header of the compendium makes the distinction and has a ranking. The XRGB-mini is usually pretty high up there and costs accordingly but it is far from the only option, there are lots of scaler chain options considerably cheaper (being sold second hand, mostly and then combined with scanline generators and the like) so it's a matter of actually doing the homework and checking the market.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Quick question: As I'm searching for a new TV, I'm realizing that I'm just not going to find something with VGA-in. What's the best way to connect VGA stuff (namely the Dreamcast) to such a TV?
IrishNinja
Member
the common route right now is hanzo + kenzai adapter, i had my VGA box modded for RGB & SCART use and it's been gangbusters since.
screw original intention. i can't live without sharp images.
the modded-for-RGB SNES mini was well worth it to see with my own eyes how the image quality practically matches with the Wii U VC's quality. someday i can fire it up with SNES YI and pretend it was actually released on VC.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Okay, I'll probably go the hanzo + kenzai route, since I was going to buy a Hanzo pretty soon, anyway. And now that I think about it, that's literally the only system I'd need to hook up via VGA.
Though... come to think of it, the XRGB-3 only does B1 mode over VGA, if I'm not mistaken... meaning that I'd be stuck with the upscaling, no-scanline mode if I did DVI. Sigh... it's all a racket, I tell ya.
lostinblue
Banned
^ That doesn't plug into HDMI though, not without going through the XRGB.
I use a LKV 350 myself.
It's not a scaler, hence whatever gets feed into get gets to the TV "as is" and comes in handy for a lot of other things because hey, It's a VGA to HDMI adapter.
I use it for my scaler chain to get to the TV also, and PC's.
EDIT: other bonus of not being a scaler is no additional lag, it's just a transcoder.
I use a LKV 350 myself.
It's not a scaler, hence whatever gets feed into get gets to the TV "as is" and comes in handy for a lot of other things because hey, It's a VGA to HDMI adapter.
I use it for my scaler chain to get to the TV also, and PC's.
EDIT: other bonus of not being a scaler is no additional lag, it's just a transcoder.
PS1 games sometimes use 480i but it's rare..
lostinblue
Banned
Chrono Cross start menu, Ridge Racer and GT2 "special modes" (very limited at that).
One SNES game also does 480i, but we're not gonna consider the SNES a 480i console due to that (plus it looks hideous).
PSone was a 240p console, as was Saturn (who had a limited and proper selection of 480i games) and N64 who also had a few select 480i games.
Kinda like saying PS3/X360 were 720p consoles "for the most part" being the omitted part.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's the Chrono Cross in-game menu that's 480i, which is why it's a bit of a pain on an XRGB because of all the resolution switching.
Internal Section also runs at 480i, if I'm not mistaken.
IrishNinja
Member
^yeah IS is gorgeous
and i like to imagine my XRGB knows i shouldn't be playing a disappointment like Chrono Cross so it does that for my own good~
and i like to imagine my XRGB knows i shouldn't be playing a disappointment like Chrono Cross so it does that for my own good~
lostinblue
Banned
It's not the start menu itself, it's the save select thing:
That's the image that appears, pretty high res for the PSone. I remember it precisely because my scaler changed resolutions there when I tested it, and appeared with more detail than usual for PSone too.
I don't think I played it to the point of going into the menu though.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's not the start menu itself, it's the save select thing:
That's the image that appears.
Oh, right, forgot about that part. I was thinking of the title screen.
Yeah, 480i all over the place. The next gen is here.
lostinblue
Banned
I love chrono cross. Easily my favorite PSone game and one of my favorite games ever.
Sure it's not Chrono Trigger 2, but that's part of why I love it, didn't try to live in the shadow of it's elder brother.
sixteen-bit
Member
CC got that GOAT soundtrack doe
lostinblue
Banned
IrishNinja
Member
^oh yeah, OST wise it wins. i used to argue this, then i revisited them again last year or so...dammnnn
i really do gotta try it again one day & remove my expectations of CT2 i guess, its just hard giving it a fair shake
i really do gotta try it again one day & remove my expectations of CT2 i guess, its just hard giving it a fair shake
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
FWIW, I despised the game when I first tried it. I was at the beginning, running around the beach looking for shells, and I was like "what the fuck is this?" I didn't wanna scavenge for shit for that freak bitch in Arni Village. I stuck with it for a while longer, got to the part where you warp to another world, and was like "WTF, another beach?" By that point, Chrono Trigger had flung me to the future. Turned the game off, concluded it was crap.
Started a new game a few years later, actually gave it a shot, understanding it wasn't Chrono Trigger 2. Loved it.
lostinblue
Banned
I recommend reading this to better appreciate the soundtrack:
-> http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Music_(Chrono_Cross).html#Liner_Notes
It makes you aware (as if you couldn't hear how different from everything made back then it sounds) how much of a pain in the arse doing it must have been and they explain song by song the original intention too, which is nice.
I usually suggest it the other way around, but Baten Kaitos Origins feels like a more focused Chrono Cross (Chrono Cross minus the 45 playable characters) and hence feels like a middle point between Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger actually.
But since it doesn't have Chrono in the name (and is instead a disguised love letter to it) you might just enjoy it. It feels more like a Chrono heir and a Chrono Cross spiritual follow-up does feel like Baten Kaitos 2/0. Baten Kaitos 1 is also reminiscent obviously, but it's nowhere near as good. They absolutely nailed it on Origins. Even the soundtrack.
If you have an aversion to Chrono Cross starting with BKO and appreciating it is a surefire method to being able to get into CC later on, IMO.
I loved it from the beginning to the end, precisely because it didn't rest on Chrono Trigger's formula.
I love it when a game surprises me and surprises me well... I guess it's to Chrono Trigger what Majora Mask is to Ocarina of Time or something.
The playable cast was definetly overdone, I appreciate it, but I appreciate massive character development focused on key characters a lot more. They tried and managed to give backstories and backquests to everyone, but they obviously couldn't make 45 characters "intrinsically" needed by the plot. Loses focus there.
But with certain characters the story and "instrumentality" is all there so it's all good.
Dammit you guys, now I want to play Chrono Cross too. On my PVM, so I can bask in its constant resolution switching glory without any problems, haha.
EDIT: Oh man oh man, BRAND NEW for so cheap, that's crazy
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/380905504267
EDIT: Oh man oh man, BRAND NEW for so cheap, that's crazy
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/380905504267
sixteen-bit
Member
cozy little setup showed up on YT feed, might be good for some inspiration if you're low on space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlQNi5MgliQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlQNi5MgliQ
lostinblue
Banned
It's the Greatest Tits version though.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Lots of super nice hardware there, but man... I couldn't do that. He put his speakers behind the TV,which is ridiculous, and it appears he's playing all this stuff while sitting on a bed. Maybe that'd be alright if I was still a freshman in college, but now? It's a little depressing.
I give it a 7/10.
lostinblue
Banned
Gotta post mine someday, I'm always tweaking it but always getting somewhere too.
Recently I plastered lots of extra boards (like the aforementioned VGA to HDMI board) on the backside of the TV, using the VESA hook points and plexiglass. Still not ready and I left space for a Raspberry Pi just because but it's looking good albeit also pretty much like a student project.
EDIT:
Roughly this, but I'm reaching a point where everything is plugged in without effort versus having to go to the back of the TV and setting it up... that picture is before all that tinkering took place although I was already thinking about it.
Recently I plastered lots of extra boards (like the aforementioned VGA to HDMI board) on the backside of the TV, using the VESA hook points and plexiglass. Still not ready and I left space for a Raspberry Pi just because but it's looking good albeit also pretty much like a student project.
EDIT:
Roughly this, but I'm reaching a point where everything is plugged in without effort versus having to go to the back of the TV and setting it up... that picture is before all that tinkering took place although I was already thinking about it.
I play most things on my bed. And I use my speakers on my HDTV (a super-slim Samsung). Works great for me. I'm not even sure where the sound from the TV comes from...but I think from the back somewhere. ;-(
Or just cheap earbuds wired through a little DAC/mini-amp.
That doesn't bother me.
I look forward to removing the shrinkwrap from a PS1 GAME WHILE BEING IN THE YEAR 2014.
And then maybe one day I'll remove the shrinkwrap from my
Kirby's Adventure
sixteen-bit
Member
plenty of $8 Lammys on amazon if you want that experience for a black label game, lol
theSlacker
Member
This is what I was going to suggest, but also have to point out that your screen alignment may differ console to console so when adjusting the geometry you may not want to go all the way to the edges in case another system is different.
It's one of the Square PS1 games they keep doing new print runs of! FF9, FF Origins, FF Anthology and FF Chronicles too. Apparently the latest batch are all silver-back (maybe they couldn't do black-back CDs anymore?)
blizzardjesus
Banned
Where else would speakers go? It gets them out of the way.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The wall.
If you're going to put nice speakers directly behind an object that blocks them, what's the point?
sixteen-bit
Member
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
That guy is high as shit.
Thanks, I am now dead inside.
Time to join in on this discussion.
I just got my N64 back from my cousins. I haven't checked to see if it is the right version to be RGB modded and even if it were, I'm not that confident in my soldering skills.
has anyone posted any side by side pictures of S-video quality vs RGB?
I have no doubt that RGB is superior to composite but from the youtube videos I've seen, I can't tell too much difference between Svid and SCART/RGB. I know I could buy a modded N64, the scart cable and a converter to make it HDMI if I needed to but that's a much bigger investment than a high quality Svideo cable would be.
Edit: I got this thing on the way
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NS0UUQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20
in hopes that I can do something with my home theater but if all else fails, I guess I can run Svid/RCA audio into my TV until I figure out what I want to do.
I just got my N64 back from my cousins. I haven't checked to see if it is the right version to be RGB modded and even if it were, I'm not that confident in my soldering skills.
has anyone posted any side by side pictures of S-video quality vs RGB?
I have no doubt that RGB is superior to composite but from the youtube videos I've seen, I can't tell too much difference between Svid and SCART/RGB. I know I could buy a modded N64, the scart cable and a converter to make it HDMI if I needed to but that's a much bigger investment than a high quality Svideo cable would be.
Edit: I got this thing on the way
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NS0UUQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20
in hopes that I can do something with my home theater but if all else fails, I guess I can run Svid/RCA audio into my TV until I figure out what I want to do.
In general, S-video is not that much of a step down from RGB, the color reproduction is definitely inferior due to limitations in how color is encoded in the NTSC and PAL signals, but unless the console has a crappy encoder it should be just as sharp.
With that said a lot of S-video's quality depends on how good the device at the other end is at processing it. On my PVM there is barely any difference compared to RGB apart from the colors being slightly washed out, but a lot to it has to do with how high quality the S-video processing is on a PVM. A cheap HDMI converter may not be as good at it. But of course if you also intend on using a cheap HDMI converter for RGB as well, there's only so much you can hope for in terms of image quality.
With that said a lot of S-video's quality depends on how good the device at the other end is at processing it. On my PVM there is barely any difference compared to RGB apart from the colors being slightly washed out, but a lot to it has to do with how high quality the S-video processing is on a PVM. A cheap HDMI converter may not be as good at it. But of course if you also intend on using a cheap HDMI converter for RGB as well, there's only so much you can hope for in terms of image quality.
Friend of Sonic
Member
I'll be assembling the entertainment center I bought, but it's the type that has the top all clear and available. I'll be setting them right next to the PVM since I plan on playing from like 3 feet away. I just gotta figure out how to setup the bandbridges I bought so that it doesn't look cluttered, but also sufficiently reaches all of my consoles.
GayForMaster
Banned
Well dude, you were right lol.
This other Model 1 SNES I'm using now does not shake the screen (and it doesn't jerk the screen sometimes during DKC2 and FF2), but gawd the graphical quality is absolute dog shit on RGB. Gonna have to hunt for a 1CHIP snes now.
Yep. It's an issue with RGB modded JR/Mini consoles. Not sure why other people disagreed with me, but hey. It's a noted issue on Chrono Trigger and scenes in Yoshi's Island (intro sequence on rare occasions and 100% of the time during the submarine area).
Does it happen on CRT or only with upscalers?
Both. Tested on my XRGB, Sony CRT (with RGB SCART input) and both my LG HDTV via RGB SCART and my parents' Panasonic HDTV via RGB SCART (TV sets in the UK have native RGB support through SCART).
Also tested via an official Gamecube RGB SCART cable and a third party one.
GayForMaster
Banned
What good is a Mini RGB modded then...? I mean, it looks beautiful but if it makes 2 of the best games ever (subjectively, don't jump on me pls) unplayable, then really what good is it? I've read that the 1CHIP can attain the same graphical fidelity of the JR model by doing an RGB pass through mod or something.
Edit: I don't want to act like I'm asking you lol, it was more of a question for everyone on this thread.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeah, and here I thought I'd won a small victory by having a Mini. Sounds like it's useless all of a sudden.
No, the Mini is amazing. Very happy with it
and Chrono Trigger DS is the superior version anyway. Yoshi's Island is far from unplayable too - it's only the submarine area in World 3 that's affected. The rest is beautiful and works fine.
And the 1-CHIP SNES doesn't need any modding at all to ouput in RGB.
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