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[Friend of Sonic]

Well, I guess you're right. I have a DS flash cart, so if I must check out Chrono Trigger, I will do so on my DS. And Yoshi's Island can be bearable if it's just the one level.

Are those the only two games?

 

[Rich!]

Well, I guess you're right. I have a DS flash cart, so if I must check out Chrono Trigger, I will do so on my DS. And Yoshi's Island can be bearable if it's just the one level.

Are those the only two games?

Yep. I've had no issues on any other whatsoever.

Impossible for me to try every game though, my budget isn't that high.

 

[monkeycrap]

I've got a Nieman tri-sync. A bit pricey but exceptional quality.

How much was the Nieman tri-sync? I didn't see any prices on their web site.

 

[Aeana]

Well, I guess you're right. I have a DS flash cart, so if I must check out Chrono Trigger, I will do so on my DS. And Yoshi's Island can be bearable if it's just the one level.

Are those the only two games?

What is the relevance of the flash cart, here?

 

[Jamix012]

What is the relevance of the flash cart, here?

I will always love GAF's no tolerance policy on piracy. It stops the conversation getting muddied with the usual likes of "WHY BUY GAMES WHEN YOU CAN JUST GET IT FOR FREE" talk that other people and websites often bring up. Supporting the industry is important.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I don't necessarily have that viewpoint that games should be stolen. I in actuality support the gaming industry massively, especially Steam as of late. I actually have a large collection of DS games, Chrono Trigger included, but I use a flash card out of convenience, and to try out tech demos and homebrew.

The leap that often is made to associate flash cards with piracy will never cease to put a smile on my face.

What is the relevance of the flash cart, here?

I guess technically none, other than to illustrate the point I won't have to dig through my damn boxes of DS games looking for Chrono Trigger. But that detail isn't important, so next time I'll say, "Yes, I will play Chrono Trigger when I get the motivation to dig through my boxes of DS games." Oh, wait, that's still banal information no one gives a shit about. Damn.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The leap that often is made to associate flash cards with piracy will never cease to put a smile on my face.

Yes. Wherever did people get that idea?

/sarcasm to the max.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Haha. I'm not the only one who uses flash cards in this matter. It's not as common as people who pirate using the devices, but I think the people that get troubled at the mere mention of a flashcard being used are probably just as bad as the people that go around saying "WHY PAY YOU CAN PLAYS THEM FOR FREE" My point being, of course, take it to the max with the braggarts, and keep an open mind about the minor mentions since they may be people who would just rather box their game collection up, and enjoy the convenience of being able to travel with a handheld loaded with their personal collection.

Nah, it's the internet, take it to the max regardless!

EDIT: Given all of the banned members on NeoGaf, I am actually semi-scared of being banned for talking about playing Chrono Trigger on a flash cart. I never do find out the reasons why people get banned on Gaf, after all.

 

[baphomet]

People are more likely to be banned for accusing someone of piracy than any talk of flash carts.

 

[Rich!]

Honestly, if anyone doesn't have a legit copy of Chrono Trigger DS then I'd be surprised anyway. It's still widely available for dirt cheap, even brand new.

 

[Just_myles]

Hey GAF, I checked the OP and didn't see anything about the Retron 5(?). Have there been any impressions of this? I know the sticker price is high but, it appears real simple. Thanks retroGAF.

 

[lostinblue]

Honestly, if anyone doesn't have a legit copy of Chrono Trigger DS then I'd be surprised anyway. It's still widely available for dirt cheap, even brand new.

And it costs money.

A lot of people pirate not because it's not available, they just don't think it's worth the money.

And if Chrono Trigger DS is not worth what it costs I don't know what is.


That said, Chrono Trigger DS stock is not anbundant, it's getting to be pretty expensive in Europe and stock in US is flickery at best, hence the rush hour in VGP every time it resurfaces with limited stock.

Sure it's no Black Sigil (whatever happened to that game? I mean... prices are crazy) but it's also no... Mario Kart DS.

Hey GAF, I checked the OP and didn't see anything about the Retron 5(?). Have there been any impressions of this? I know the sticker price is high but, it appears real simple. Thanks retroGAF.

Here on GAF most tend to prefer the original hardware, Retron is not and most likely is not including five system-on-a-chip SoC's so it must be doing high level emulation, high meaning loose (ie: worse).

I'm sure it works mostly fine, but...

How much was the Nieman tri-sync? I didn't see any prices on their web site.

I'm interested as well.

 

[IrishNinja]

like homebrew, flashcart talk has been fine here forever now - just dont link to ROMs or talk about stuff you bootlegged. nobody outside pop-GAF asks for receipts.

 

[lostinblue]

like homebrew, flashcart talk has been fine here forever now - just dont link to ROMs or talk about stuff you bootlegged. nobody outside pop-GAF asks for receipts.

Actually if you admit you don't have the original that's an instant ban for you.

I managed to piss and make a dude admit it before and he got banned on the spot for being an idiot (didn't even had to call a mod)

But of course, no one is against flash carts but saying "I'll just download them and put them on my cart" will raise some eyebrows, mine included. I'm glad to hear said user actually has said games albeit I can understand the "I have the game on SNES just not on DS so it's like I'm half entitled to it" it's certainly not as bad as not having neither and I'm sure everyone of us did it before - but that doesn't make it right, it's "borrowing", (whilst pirating without that is not even that)

Me myself I have never up to this point been able to justify and purchase a flash cart because with that money I can buy more games and I can never have enough money to buy every game I want so I can never take the budge of buying a flash cart and "I have all the games now" I simply don't see it like that, thankfully. But lots of people see it precisely like that.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Still no date for the NT, huh?

looking forward to impressions.

 

[IrishNinja]

Actually if you admit you don't have the original that's an instant ban for you.

...or talk about stuff you bootlegged.

that's what i said

 

[lostinblue]

No, the Mini is amazing. Very happy with it

and Chrono Trigger DS is the superior version anyway.

I think it's a benchmark in good porting, and the only time I can think about when I actually applauded the palette changes... but I don't agree.

Chrono Trigger is a good conversion, but I prefer the original intro to the game (the one ingame) and the original translation too. They sure were careful to include a lot of options but those were left out. I also prefer it on a console due to the controller and the original scanlines - but thank god they changed the pallete to match it sans scanlines on the DS.

Those aren't faults, but it's like saying OoT on the N64 had better controls and ocarina songs actually made sense in regards to the controller pattern... 3DS version is better but that's also a fact. And in Chrono Triggers case it's merely an upgraded version of a game that already ran like a champ on the SNES so it's not even the improvement OoT was.

I love the damn port, but...

Yoshi's Island is far from unplayable too - it's only the submarine area in World 3 that's affected. The rest is beautiful and works fine.

And the 1-CHIP SNES doesn't need any modding at all to ouput in RGB.

The modded 1-chip SNES also exhibits this behaviour?

that's what i said

Sorry, I missed it, I don't associate bootlegging with flat out piracy in the same way I do in regards to... "pirating" or something. If I read it and stopped there and thought about it I would obviously get it, but I didn't.

But I'm not a native speaker and I see it now in the way you worded it.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Speaking of homebrew, I really want the new Harmony cart to come out. Someone did a Sonic port for the 2600 and I desperately want to try it. Its crazy what they pulled off

 

[IrishNinja]

Sorry, I missed it, I don't associate bootlegging with flat out piracy in the same way I do in regards to... "pirating" or something. If I read it and stopped there and thought about it I would obviously get it, but I didn't.

But I'm not a native speaker and I see it now in the way you worded it.

ah, didn't mean to be a dick - yeah, there's distinctions between bootlegging (usually meant selling now that i think about it) and pirating for some. both are bad but yeah, selling bootlegs is crazy shady, haha

 

[Yes Boss!]

How much was the Nieman tri-sync? I didn't see any prices on their web site.

Gosh it has been a good while. With shipping from the NY distributor (who handled stock back in 2009, I believe it was just under $500...maybe $450-ish. It came UPS. Just email them and they will let you know.

Honestly, bought it a long time ago when I made a lot more money. Now I just work in a low-paying job.

EDIT: scoured my old emails...looks like I got a quote from Amusements Plus back in the day but I only see an email about $125 shipping. Monitor was probably $400 that many years ago...meaning about $550. Looks like they list the 27 3-Mode at $495 now, yikes...and no longer available.

Btw, here is a pic from when I pulled it out from storage when I was visiting the family in laguna over last christmas. Some day I'll find a use for it...maybe I'll put it in my Egret III (though that has a platter chassis).

 

[meanspartan]

Is there a US-made equivalent of the XRGB mini? If not, I am curious why not. And, I'm curious why the hell it needs to cost over $300 lol.

It makes games look good, but sadly I don't think I can swing that much :-/ I really wanna use my old consoles but that just isn't realistic for me. I may suck it up and get a Retron 5 for $140. Emulation isn't great but from what I've seen it can at least make my games look a lot better than they do now on HDTVs.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

If not, I am curious why not.

240p video processing is an extremely niche market. I can't think of anything other than vintage video game consoles that it even applies to.

Crafty Mech is working on a no-frills linedoubler that feels like it's been in development for ages and ultimately won't be as feature-complete or user-friendly as the high-end upscalers, but it seemed to be the most promising low-cost alternative when I last checked the status of it.

 

[meanspartan]

240p video processing is an extremely niche market. I can't think of anything other than vintage video game consoles that it even applies to.

Crafty Mech is working on a no-frills linedoubler that feels like it's been in development for ages and ultimately won't be as feature-complete or user-friendly as the high-end upscalers, but it seemed to be the most promising low-cost alternative when I last checked the status of it.

Thanks for the quick reply!

One more quick question if you don't mind. I also have a dreamcast I play occasionally, and on my old hdtv I could use a VGA cable with it to get a pretty good looking 480p. But on my new tv, it just says "no signal". I read online that it may be because it won't recognize the particular resolution even though it has the VGA input. Which sucks.

So, is the XRGB mini any help with dreamcast? How about N64, Ps1, and Ps2? If it will help all my old machines look nice on my hdtv, then it may be worth it. If it is only gonna be useful for my 8 and 16-bit consoles, I can't justify that.

Then I would need to decide whether to also get SCART cables where relevant. Kevin Larabee's video on the XRGB mini he just ran composite through it and it looked amazing. If I could get that image quality, I'd be stoked.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Thanks for the quick reply!

One more quick question if you don't mind. I also have a dreamcast I play occasionally, and on my old hdtv I could use a VGA cable with it to get a pretty good looking 480p. But on my new tv, it just says "no signal". I read online that it may be because it won't recognize the particular resolution even though it has the VGA input. Which sucks.

So, is the XRGB mini any help with dreamcast? How about N64, Ps1, and Ps2? If it will help all my old machines look nice on my hdtv, then it may be worth it. If it is only gonna be useful for my 8 and 16-bit consoles, I can't justify that.

Then I would need to decide whether to also get SCART cables where relevant. Kevin Larabee's video on the XRGB mini he just ran composite through it and it looked amazing. If I could get that image quality, I'd be stoked.

The Dreamcast VGA signal is somewhat unusual. It's technically a 720x480 video feed, which is the same as standard 480p, but only the middle 640x480 pixels are actually filled. Some TVs, monitors, and processors just don't handle that correctly. Some assume that the video is standard 640x480 VGA through and through and scale it incorrectly as a result. Some can't display a picture from it at all.

You need extra hardware to connect a VGA source to the Framemeister, as it has no VGA input. Specifically, you need a sync combiner. (VGA is RGBHV; the input on the Framemeister is RGBs.) Older XRGBs have VGA input and output and will just take it straight-up.

Personally, I think a dedicated upscaler is worth it for sources that are primarily 240p and 480i, which includes almost everything up to and including the PS2 generation. For 480p and up, I don't think extra hardware is necessary.

Using composite video on an XRGB is usually a waste of money. In cases where you'd need an expensive or fairly intricate system mod to get a better video signal (NES), then I think it's reasonable to just settle on what the system does out of the box, but for systems that actually output RGB natively (Genesis, SNES, Saturn, PS1, Dreamcast, etc.), it just seems crazy to throw down $300+ on the box but skimp on the cables.

 

[antibolo]

Finally got my EURO Scart cable so I could try my doujindance PCE Duo. Hooked it withe Lenkeng LKV362A Scart-to-HDMI upscaler I bought, and have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the results for such a relatively cheap China-made upscaler (cost me USD37). Colors really look vibrant and sharp. Of course I have no doubts an XRGB will look better and have scanline options but this is not too shabby if I may say so.

So I just got the exact same upscaler. I just tried it with my SNES and PS2 and on both consoles it displayed the picture stretched to 16:9 full screen (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Needless to say that's a total deal breaker. Judging from these photos it seemed OK for you (ie. 4:3), how did you do it??? Was it just always like this without any configuration? I can't find anything about it in the single sheet manual that came with it.

EDIT: Just done some quick research and apparently there is no way to make the LKV362A display 4:3 properly. Fuck, what a piece of garbage. It's such a shame because apart from the wrong aspect ratio it looks decent enough. I assume your TV had an option to force 4:3 in some way??

 

[sixteen-bit]

Your TV should have a 4:3 mode, right?

 

[antibolo]

Your TV should have a 4:3 mode, right?

Nope, there is no such thing on my TV. You can stretch 4:3 to 16:9 but not the other way around. I don't think I've ever seen that on any TV? Why do you assume this is common?

In any case I bought this device for capturing purposes, not actually play with it. And AFAIK the Elgato software doesn't support it either.

 

[lostinblue]

So I just got the exact same upscaler. I just tried it with my SNES and PS2 and on both consoles it displayed the picture stretched to 16:9 full screen (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Needless to say that's a total deal breaker. Judging from these photos it seemed OK for you (ie. 4:3), how did you do it??? Was it just always like this without any configuration? I can't find anything about it in the single sheet manual that came with it.

EDIT: Just done some quick research and apparently there is no way to make the LKV362A display 4:3 properly. Fuck, what a piece of garbage. It's such a shame because apart from the wrong aspect ratio it looks decent enough. I assume your TV had an option to force 4:3 in some way??

It doesn't toggle between 16:9 and 4:3 it's the TV that is supposed to do so. In the advent that it doesn't, though luck.

It's known that they actually have a firmware for the LKV who does 4:3 instead of 16:9 in the same solution but they only offer it for companies and big custom orders apparently, without buttons it's not possible to toggle so it's either one thing or the other.


16:9 TV's without the 4:3 setting are the stupidest invention I've ever seen tbh - thank god they're not the norm. Monitors I can understand but televisions...

 

[sixteen-bit]

Nope, there is no such thing on my TV. You can stretch 4:3 to 16:9 but not the other way around. I don't think I've ever seen that on any TV? Why do you assume this is common?

I assume this is common because I have seen this option on every widescreen television I have ever owned or used.

 

[antibolo]

16:9 TV's without the 4:3 setting are the stupidest invention I've ever seen tbh. Monitors I can understand but televisions...

Why would you ever need to crunch a 720p or 1080p down to 4:3, apart from weird cases like this? It's the source device that should display aspect ratio properly, not the responsibility of the TV to do this.

 

[lostinblue]

I assume this is common because I have seen this option on every widescreen television I have ever owned or used.

It's a standard thing to have, but some TV's lack it.

I've messed with a Phillips that didn't have it, following year models had that option restored but they never bothered updating the firmware for it. (it was a pretty modern set)

That single handedly changed my opinion regarding Phillips. Bunch of worthless suckers those.

Why would you ever need to crunch a 720p or 1080p down to 4:3, apart from weird cases like this? It's the source device that should display aspect ratio properly, not the responsibility of the TV to do this.

Legacy is a very important feature on every TV on earth, which is why they still support lots of legacy connections. Why not just stop supporting interlaced signal and SD otherwise?

They have to keep proper aspect ratio options and in the advent they don't... Well, their set functionality totally flucked it up somewhere.

 

[antibolo]

I think you guys are misunderstanding: this device displays in 720p or 1080p, not SD resolutions.

720p and 1080p are always 16:9 no matter what. There is no reason for the TV itself to distort a HD picture to 4:3, it's not something that should ever happen.

The problem is this upscaler uses the entire area instead of properly just pillarbox it. And since it's 720p or 1080p, there is no way to correct it from the TV itself.

 

[lostinblue]

It should have options.

But does your TV force 4:3 in SD content and not on HD or is it transversal?

If it's transversal then the TV is more at fault than the device. Or rather the device is banking on the TV having said options. Notice there is 16:9 Standard Definition content and being 4:3 with pillar boxes on the device without options would be worse, less of a "jack of all trades" thing going on.

It's semantics if you will, yes. But this device doesn't solve the 16:9 problem on some televisions, that's a problem with the television before anything else though, and the device is only too barebones to offer the option.

 

[antibolo]

Ugh, as I thought, there is no way to force it to 4:3 in the Elgato software either. Didn't care that my TV couldn't do it, but this is the real deal breaker.

Yet another waste of money.

 

[lostinblue]

What TV set do you own?

As for elgato only if they put that one in eventually, but if you're capturing you can force it to 4:3 later in encode anyway. (if it's meant for youtube videos?)

I don't get what you're trying to do anymore :X regardless most of us knew the limitation and forgot to mention it, this device doesn't solve TV's and monitors lacking 4:3 options.

 

[antibolo]

What TV set do you own?

As for elgato only if they put that one in eventually, but if you're capturing you can force it to 4:3 later in encode anyway. (if it's meant for youtube videos?)

I don't get what you're trying to do anymore :X regardless most of us knew the limitation and forgot to mention it, this device doesn't solve TV's and monitors lacking 4:3 options.

Yeah for non-live capturing I know I could fix it in post, but for livestreaming this is pretty worthless.

I want to be able to capture RGB input on classic consoles on my Elgato Game Capture HD. My first attempt was a SCART to component converter, but turns out the Elgato stupidly won't accept 240p signals over component (even though composite and s-video works fine). I emailed Elgato about it and they just sent me a canned response that they don't plan on ever supporting it.

So I tried that upscaler instead.

I know the obvious answer is to buy a XRGB Mini, but that's a lot of money just for capturing (I still intend on playing on my PVM and use its built-in passthrough outputs for capturing). Although if it goes on like this I will have wasted just as much money over non-working solutions lol.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Nope, there is no such thing on my TV. You can stretch 4:3 to 16:9 but not the other way around. I don't think I've ever seen that on any TV? Why do you assume this is common?

Because it is. Even my LCD computer monitor can do it.

Yeah for non-live capturing I know I could fix it in post, but for livestreaming this is pretty worthless.

Both XSplit and Open Broadcaster Software allow you to adjust the aspect ratio of every source.

 

[antibolo]

Both XSplit and Open Broadcaster Software allow you to adjust the aspect ratio of every source.

Aren't those for PC streaming? In what way would that help me with my Elgato device?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I know that people like Micomsoft's XCAPTURE device for that sorta stuff.

If Elgato is El Gato (a cat), then XCAPTURE is El Oso (a bear).

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Aren't those for PC streaming?

Not exclusively. I dunno how good the packaged software for the Elgato is but I certainly doubt it's better than either of those.

 

[baphomet]

Not exclusively. I dunno how good the packaged software for the Elgato is but I certainly doubt it's better than either of those.

Is not bad for what it is, but it's about as basic as it possibly could be.

 

[Andy the cook]

So I just ordered an Xrgb-mini and I'm a little confused on what kind of cable to get. I'm going to be using it with a modded snes mini (not even sure if that matters). Would this work or is there something better? EDIT: Btw, thanks richisawesome for explaining to me the stuff about the 1-chip and mini-snes.

 

[Bar81]

So I just ordered an Xrgb-mini and I'm a little confused on what kind of cable to get. I'm going to be using it with a modded snes mini (not even sure if that matters). Would this work or is there something better? EDIT: Btw, thanks richisawesome for explaining to me the stuff about the 1-chip and mini-snes.

The XRGB is wired for the JP cable standard and so using a Scart standard cable will require you to get an adapter to use with the XRGB or you will blow the XRGB up.

 

[GayForMaster]

Anyone finding that the screen repositions itself after a lot of movement in games like X4 on PS1 through XRGB? It's another issue I found, it happens instantly but is noticeable as the screen clearly looks like it jerks to the right and translates back to the center.

 

[televator]

So I was looking for some actual info on the VGA/HDMI board for the 64. While I can appreciate the elegant design and the ammount of work in creating it, I wondered what it actually did that an RGB mod couldn't. At first it seemed like not much. It appeared to be simply line doubling... a function that can be done by existing external devices. Hmm...

Then I found this picture posted by the creator:

An OSD with scaling options. Pretty cool, although it still seems to me that folks with RGB + XRGB mini setups won't see much benefit?

 

[AU Tiger]

In general, S-video is not that much of a step down from RGB, the color reproduction is definitely inferior due to limitations in how color is encoded in the NTSC and PAL signals, but unless the console has a crappy encoder it should be just as sharp.

With that said a lot of S-video's quality depends on how good the device at the other end is at processing it. On my PVM there is barely any difference compared to RGB apart from the colors being slightly washed out, but a lot to it has to do with how high quality the S-video processing is on a PVM. A cheap HDMI converter may not be as good at it. But of course if you also intend on using a cheap HDMI converter for RGB as well, there's only so much you can hope for in terms of image quality.

I got this.

 

[ZealousD]

Thread rename? When did that happen?

 

[Yes Boss!]

Whoa, updated title!

 

[IrishNinja]

Thread rename? When did that happen?

Today! Much love to Stump <3
Related: if you guys have write-ups/resources on CRTs & PVMs for the OP, lemme kmow! I'd like to update it to be more inclusive of all the great options available.

 

[Peagles]