Considering Russia's actions in Georgia, they we're smart to reject the deal.
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US expels Russian diplomats over cyber attacks
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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Considering Russia's actions in Georgia, they we're smart to reject the deal.
wumster3000
Member
Russia hacking is too obvious, sorry that you follow crap news. It's easy to trace hackers man.
A lot of Americans called BS on Saddam and Bin Laden situations. A lot of us figured from the get go that Bush invaded for oil and nothing else. The money Bush and Cheney made from invading was nuts.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-did-Dick-Cheney-make-from-the-wars-in-Iraq-and-Afghanistan
Yup. Plenty of us knew it was bullshit w Iraq (the invasion plans were drawn up long before 9/11) but people are dumb.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arms and was then invaded by Russia. But it's NATO that is the aggressor!
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Fair points, please see my edit.
Would be interesting to discuss if he was molded by the West to become like that.
He's a former KGB head. No one from the west turned him into this, the guy is just an asshole.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
I'm just a armchair politician, but wasn't NATO meddling with the democratic elections so that the pro EU guy came into Office in Ukraine => Ukraine gives up nuclear arms in exchange to become a EU/NATO member.
Russia sees this as expansion of the NATO and starts to steer shit. Ukraine lost its nuclear arms, did not get into EU/NATO because ... i don't know.
Don't forget his member berry addiction. Dude dreams of the power the USSR had at it's peak.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Putin does want the USSR back to whatever strength it has in the 70's when he was in the KGB. Yeah we are dealing with an ex KGB agent, not some politician. Russia is an oligarchy. It's run by a small group of people with a lot of money and power. Putin is probably the richest man in the world right now. That's rather scary. I suggest the Russian apologists listen to Sam Harris's last podcast as he interviews an author of a book called Winter is Coming (yes a direct Game of Thrones reference). It's on my reading list for 2017 as I need to finish The New Tsar(which is about Putin himself).
Also I am seeing a lot of people doubt our intelligence agencies on twitter(not sure if it is happening here) because of the Iraq war. First off if you ever watched the movie Fair Game the CIA kept finding the same damn thing which was no WMD's in Iraq. Clinton spent most of his presidency throwing a rocket at saddam when something funny looking came along. This prompted Joe Wilson to write an article about what he found in Niger when the CIA sent him to look at some mines where they were getting yellow cake uranium. They weren't selling it to Iraq and it was a bullshit lie made by Bush. This prompted Karl rove and scooter Libby to out Wilsons wife valarie plame as a CIA agent. She was a real spy who would maintain multiple identities everyday for combating terrorist.
The reason I wrote that story above is mostly because I see people like Glenn Greenwald and others put doubt into the intelligence agencies. This ironically plays into Putins hands as well. He doesn't care if you are a democrat or a republican. He wants you to doubt the institutions that keep us safe. That's not to say they are up to shady shit. Of course they are. But there are moral gray areas. The Russians have been very good at espionage since the Soviet Union. Hell just watch The Americans and look at how the main actors play off people's emotions to get them to do things.
Sorry long rant.
Also I am seeing a lot of people doubt our intelligence agencies on twitter(not sure if it is happening here) because of the Iraq war. First off if you ever watched the movie Fair Game the CIA kept finding the same damn thing which was no WMD's in Iraq. Clinton spent most of his presidency throwing a rocket at saddam when something funny looking came along. This prompted Joe Wilson to write an article about what he found in Niger when the CIA sent him to look at some mines where they were getting yellow cake uranium. They weren't selling it to Iraq and it was a bullshit lie made by Bush. This prompted Karl rove and scooter Libby to out Wilsons wife valarie plame as a CIA agent. She was a real spy who would maintain multiple identities everyday for combating terrorist.
The reason I wrote that story above is mostly because I see people like Glenn Greenwald and others put doubt into the intelligence agencies. This ironically plays into Putins hands as well. He doesn't care if you are a democrat or a republican. He wants you to doubt the institutions that keep us safe. That's not to say they are up to shady shit. Of course they are. But there are moral gray areas. The Russians have been very good at espionage since the Soviet Union. Hell just watch The Americans and look at how the main actors play off people's emotions to get them to do things.
Sorry long rant.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Why is being an ex-KGB a negative?
Would it have a negative impact if Obama had worked at the CIA?
tiredheadcrab
Member
Do you want a story on how the KGB was run?
The Living Tribunal
Member
Really?
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Yeah, i have no idea.
All i know from the KGB is from Hollywood. Red Heat in particular.
MisterFalcon
Member
According to that link Cheney made no extra money at all, what he got paid was already agreed on in 2000.
wumster3000
Member
Its implied that his company was favored for the Iraq war.
koji kabuto
Member
We shouldn't fall for the same trick every time there's a discussion about Russia's interfering with other countries business, Every single thread turns into "What about the US" and drilled to hell.
Yep.
It's honestly disturbing to see the effects of such an effective propaganda campaign even in what amounts to a tiny corner of the internet.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
American foreign policy is hardly anti American propaganda.
Good! So we can finally agree that interfeing with other countries politics, suppoting and deposing dictators depending of what is better for your own interests, state sponsored hacking and sabotaging of foreign countries infrastructure is something we should all frown upon regardless of our nationality and political orientation.
I haven't seen anyone disagreeing with this sentiment from the beginning, but glad to hear we can move past it and onto the actual issue instead of conflating and derailing.
LOL don't worry about that happening any time soon with these posters.
Erm, I don't think anyone is this thread, other than those who are praising Putin for his actions in Crimea and his hacking of the US, have done that. I certainly don't hold that sentiment.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I only agree with half this.
petran79
Banned
I mean before the whole mess started. Putin even withheld from giving loans to Cyprus during their economic crisis, in order to appease the Germans. Yet they pay back with Ukraine.
Even Swedes are meddling in American affairs..
He will spin it, just like he spun everything else. And move on. People are fooling themselves if they think Trump isn't the Teflon man. All evidence points to it being a non issue. Just like all negative trump media.
Wow this Trump tweet.
He pinned it to his profile:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/814919370711461890
What world is this.
He pinned it to his profile:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/814919370711461890
Puppet said:
What world is this.
see: latest DJT tweet.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Your president supports Putin.
It is so obvious what is going on, but republicans don't care. They just want to win.
And too many dems are still in the "we go high when they go low" phase.
Get the fuck over it, stop being fucking pussies and fight back. Or just lay down and take it. Whatever.
I can imagine a lot of things, and it makes total sense, I understand it, but I never would seriously have imagined we'd have a Republican president and Republicans openly loving Putin.
First of all Russia actually loaned money to Cyprus. That wasn't done out of charity either, but mainly the because Cyprus has a lot of Russian investor money that was in danger of going poof because of the banking crisis there.
Also even if Russia hadn't done that what does it have to do with Ukraine? The sphere of influence mindset that people like you display here is scary af to someone actually living in a country sharing border with Russia. We aren't some political playthings you can just throw away to appease Putin. People in Ukraine obviously chose west over east too and you should respect that.
20 years after that?
Remember the Arab spring? Yeah...about that being spontaneous will of the people and not supported armed militias.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Trump supporters face a bigger threat than russians; brown and black people in government.
NyMartin90
Member
Netherscourge
Banned
Obama should have expelled him along with the Russian diplomats.
This was before Putin had made it clear how terrible he was. He was shady but it wasn't really known that he had designs to rebuild the USSR. It was good policy at the time to be more friendly with Russia.
Rolling Stones posted an interesting article:
Something About This Russia Story Stinks - Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment
Something About This Russia Story Stinks - Nearly a decade and a half after the Iraq-WMD faceplant, the American press is again asked to co-sign a dubious intelligence assessment
What are you implying here? The US had *nothing* to do with the arab spring! Nothing at all, especially in Libia.
It just happened spontaneously one day when millions of people in those countries all of a sudden discovered the power of Twitter and Facebook! At least that's what I heard on CNN at the time.
RPGCrazied
Member
Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!
Wow, he really is Putin's puppet.
‏@realDonaldTrump
Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!
Wow, he really is Putin's puppet.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
So who did the hacking and why? The elusive 400 pound hacker in his basement for the lulz?
The far left and far right are so far up Russia's ass it's hilarious and pathetic at the same time. None of these clowns would dare go live there and defy Putin considering what happens to people who do so.
That was a mind-numbingly stupid read.
EatinOlives
Member
Democrats have no fire in their bellies to properly fight back
LowlySmokeGuy
Banned
BOOM. GTFO filthy commies.
It is looking like you are right. And just as bad, most Americans are completely ignoring this news. This is such a smaller story than it should be. Just fucking baffling to me.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Fight back how? What do you want people to do about it?
Any hacker worth his wages would be practically impossible to track. I would love to see more detailed reports. There's thousands of script-kids and excellent veteran hobbyists out there (from every country) constantly trying to hack any big government but I'm curious how they have pinpointed that the Russian government specifically tried to hack the polls.
They're not communists. Modern Russia is more like a proto-fascist country.
Didn't the US intelligence community find insufficient evidence for Iraqi WMDs?
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