Depends. I agree that they cannot accept the House bill, but the Senate proposal is a straight give/take on ACA so I don't think that should be considered negotiating on the debt limit/CR. What I mean is, rather than "We'll give you income verification to end the shutdown" it's "We'll give you income verification if you give on the reinsurance tax" which is how negotiations should work (though I would prefer if Obama had simply refused to negotiate during shutdown)
US Federal Government Shutdown | Shutdown Shutdown, Debt Ceiling Raised
- Thread starter Jarmel
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Depends. I agree that they cannot accept the House bill, but the Senate proposal is a straight give/take on ACA so I don't think that should be considered negotiating on the debt limit/CR. What I mean is, rather than "We'll give you income verification to end the shutdown" it's "We'll give you income verification if you give on the reinsurance tax" which is how negotiations should work (though I would prefer if Obama had simply refused to negotiate during shutdown)
Takamura-San
Member
A Bi partisan deal was reached way before this tantrum. Boehner admitted that. He also admitted that he backed out of this deal to pursue the Tea party crusade to defund ACA. This crusade was by holding the government hostage, until their demands were met. Allowing anything to be compensated by that tactic would allow for this to continue happening.
Do you want the gov to be shutdown every 3 months?
Ether_Snake
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Like I said in another thread, what if some politicians in key position VS the default are actually holding the world economy through the US and expecting to be paid under the table to release the hostage? Maybe it's not about politics at all. It's like a coup.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL), a reliable no, says the new House plan is unacceptable, prefers to tie debt limit to Balanced Budget Amendment. #YOLO
Rep. Charlie Dent says he'll vote for new House plan. "It moves the ball forward."
Rep. Michael Burgess says reaction to Senate plan was "not good" among House GOP, but also "mixed" about their own plan.
Rep. Charlie Dent says he'll vote for new House plan. "It moves the ball forward."
Rep. Michael Burgess says reaction to Senate plan was "not good" among House GOP, but also "mixed" about their own plan.
.....Really? You really think that's actually what's happening instead of the GOP acting like fuckwits?
SteveWinwood
Member
"It moves the ball forward."
It was a joke. Presumably, the USA having a government is not a win for any political party.
Like the boulder in Raiders of the Lost Ark!
EatinOlives
Member
Fucking clown shoes all up in the House.
Part of me thinks this is just another part of their "THE PRESIDENT WON'T NEGOTIATE WITH UUUUUSSS *whine*" narrative. Give him deliberately shit deals for weeks through the default so that they can go to Fox News afterward and say LOOK WE GAVE HIM SEVEN DEALS. SEVEN. AND HE TURNED THEM ALL DOWN.
This can be the only reason for this stupid shit.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Prediction: if the house GOP cannot find votes for their own bill tonight , they will cave in and open the gov and raise the debt ceiling
Yeah, I thought that was the plan. Baffling that the Dems let this happen. They should have told the house to give them a clean CR and gone home until they got one.
EatinOlives
Member
Is there any indication that this would actually happen?
Not being snarky, just genuinely curious. I don't know much about the general sentiment of the non-Tea-Party GOP House members.
Indeed. I'm disappointed. Now that the Dems have started speaking with the extortionists they'll know they can pull this shit in the future to get attention.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I think the plan is that WH works with senate for the deal where the Democrats control the senate. it is tbus the Senate plan. House accepts it after being forced and makes the GOP look weak (who control the house).
WH and Senate (Democrat controlled) were always looking to compromise in Senate and make GOP look weak and thus destroy their chances in House in 2014.
This is simply a strategy to get control of House in 2014 because if the Senate plan is accepted
WH looks like it negotiated and dealed with Senate for the passing
Senate Bill looks Partisan (Democrats controlled Senate)
House GOP Caved in to Senate (GOP looks weak)
Charlie Dent is the guy who pushed the failed revolt against the speakership a week and a half ago. Is he trying to save face with the GOP base?
Opinions are divided.
Some say, including myself, that Cruz won't budge and will drag the world economy down with him, because he's already hedged everything on this dumbass, destructive approach. Others say he will fall on his sword and allow the moderate republicans to avert disaster.
Takamura-San
Member
I guess that you missed the part where the CR without any ACA language was negotiated between the Senate and the House. It was good to go, until one party decided to hold the gov hostage looking for more demands.
The CR that passed the senate was already a compromise to Dems. Lowers spending almost Ryan level. Yes, that low.
Someone already said it: "republicans don't know when to take a win."
Maninthemirror
Banned
The House GOP does not like the Senate Bill, if it was negotiated between Senate and House without the ACA language then that was done by very few and still makes the House GOP look weak now that we are on the edge.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think there has been a blatant attempt for some time to provoke violence. When you accuse the president of treason, casually suggest he has willingly had US soldiers killed, argue he personally sends Imans to US military funerals to damn them to hell...what is your true intention? You've gone beyond political instigation, red mest politics, or whatever. You move into clear incitement territory. This isn't just on the far right either - mainstream republicans reinforce this idea daily. Obama doesn't understand America, Obama doesn't care about America, Obama wants Americans to suffer.
It's ugly, it's dangerous, and it needs to stop before something bad happens. Everyone doesn't have Secret Service protection.
Takamura-San
Member
They got the spending level they wanted. Basically they want to be president without being voted for it. ACA language was never going to make it, and you know why? Because it is not a BILL to be negotiated. It is law that was passed through the democratic process. Law that was put out for vote more than 30 times that still held ground. Law that was evaluated by the supreme court and still held.
This isn't a negotiation. The Democrats aren't giving up anything meaningful.
The crazies in the GOP can't tell the difference, but they also can't be reasoned with. They'll always vote for default or anything else that's bad for America.
The pragmatists in the GOP know that they got nothing, and that they paid a heavy price in the polls to get that nothing in order to assuage the crazies.
Maninthemirror
Banned
WH will veto the house bill:
BREAKING: @Brundage44 says White House considers latest GOP proposal a "ransom" demand
BREAKING: @Brundage44 says White House considers latest GOP proposal a "ransom" demand
SteveWinwood
Member
does the white house consider water to be wet
polyh3dron
Banned
and here we go.WH will veto the house bill:
BREAKING: @Brundage44 says White House considers latest GOP proposal a "ransom" demand
Vestal
Junior Member
WH will veto the house bill:
BREAKING: @Brundage44 says White House considers latest GOP proposal a "ransom" demand
the proverbial cliff is on the horizon and Boehner is too busy blowing the Tea Party caucus to look at the fucking road.
Are we seriously going to go past the 17th deadline? Are these people that fucking dense?
Maninthemirror
Banned
Tom Cole says House GOP has a majority in support of the plan but doesn't know if they have 218. Hopes some Dems will vote for it.
Well, if they don't have the votes for it and it fails it gives Boehner cover to put the Senate bill on the floor and let it pass with Dem votes + Peter King
EatinOlives
Member
Please let this fail in the House. Please.
Boehner's entire shit crusade will explode in his face if it doesn't.
It'll pass
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Boehner says "there have been no discussions about what exactly we will do." Pretty clear he is in no way certain they have the votes for their own bill.
The GOP will spin this no matter the outcome. We default, the GOP and their constituents blame Obama for not "negotiating". If the White House/Dems concede, then the GOP will fly a George Bush-esque 'Mission Accomplished' Banner over Capitol Hill and Ted Cruz and his supporters will consider himself the son of Jesus Christ at that point, if not the actual JC himself.
It'll be 2008 all over again.
I fully expect the GOP to follow through on their Impeachment threat if the U.S defaults. They've already proven themselves crazy enough to go that far.
Maninthemirror
Banned
So Boehner says he will still let the house vote on a GOP bill which he is unsure that it will pass and previously said he will not let the house vote on a CR bill which he said he was unsure it will pass.
eh....
eh....
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
The market will react. It may not be until tomorrow but a default is not priced in so expect major sell offs if nothing is in place for tomorrow.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Why would you want that when China has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to pay? You can view a decent list of defaults in Reinhart and Rogoff's This Time is Different. They're the two knuckleheads (not dummies though) that made an Excel error about the 90% debt to gdp ratio. Repubs like to point to these two economists to make their substantive arguments about the US being on an unsustainable path.
Ether_Snake
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Epsilon-delta
Banned
There would be a sell off that will make 2008 look tame. I would like liquidate my entire portfolio. I'm not going to stand by and see my portfolio take a 30-50% hit or more because some extremists want the world to burn.
I think it's safe to say that they're too far-gone with reality at this point. Their corporate overlords have created a monster they may not even be able to control now. The Tea Party seems to be running purely on ego, their hatred for anything Obama, pompous self-righteousness, and Jesus.
Alfred has got the right idea:
"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a party they didn't fully understand."
No, the ps4s will be shipped to U.S creditors.
Thatonemoor
Member
Hey does any know what will happen in a default? I know there are alot of unknowns right now but are some hard "This will happen" after effects?
Xdrive05
Member
Guys, my father in law explained to me that this is Obama's fault for not negotiating. Obama is lying when he says a default is a bad idea and will destroy the economy... not because it isn't, but because Obama WANTS to destroy the economy so he can rebuild it as his own socialist dystopia. I would understand these truths if I just watched Fox, read Peter Shiff, Drudge and Lucianne.
Also, gubmint bought a bunch of hollowpoint rounds, and there's a FEMA camp in Indiana where conservatives like him will be rounded up for dissenting. Because the IRS are already targeting them.
Also, gubmint bought a bunch of hollowpoint rounds, and there's a FEMA camp in Indiana where conservatives like him will be rounded up for dissenting. Because the IRS are already targeting them.
Your US$ cash will worth nothing as well very soon should that happen...
No, WiiU will be the only thing availble this holiday.
Maninthemirror
Banned
The irony is with the GOP destroyed it will create a society like Canada
Give me that Jack and Coke you have in your avatar and I'll deck your father-in-law for you.
Escape Goat
Member
We ned to have a conversation.
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