Unknown?
Member
Forgive him, time is meaningless in his void.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Nydius
Gold Member
Microsoft is a public company.
Shareholders certainly care. Stakeholders care. C-Suite executives who have to deliver results to the aforementioned two groups most definitely care.
If it’s more profitable to abandon hardware and have “Microsoft Game Studios” become a purely software and services division, they’ll absolutely do it in a heartbeat.
The idea that they’ll release some handheld and it will solve all their problems is laughable. It’s yet another market they’re chasing and will be years behind by the time they launch a product. Steam Deck and various Windows handhelds will already dominate the landscape and any Xbox handheld will have almost no path to sustained growth. The same failed playbook Microsoft ran with Zune, Windows CE PDAs, Windows Mobile/Windows Phone, and, to a lesser extent, Xbox itself. Late to the market with all of them and thought they could simply prop them up with their corporate warchest until they reached market viability/profitability.
Microsoft seems to never learn from their past missteps.
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Yonyx
Banned
Looking at those numbers, you realize that the approximate percentage of sales for the last two Xbox consoles in the USA is 50% of their global sales.
One sold 29 million in the USA out of the 58 million sold worldwide, exactly half. The Series estimates are 14 million in the USA and approximately 28 million worldwide, also an approximate 50%.
One sold 29 million in the USA out of the 58 million sold worldwide, exactly half. The Series estimates are 14 million in the USA and approximately 28 million worldwide, also an approximate 50%.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
1: This is US-only; globally in a lot of markets it's like 10:1 in favor of PS5, even more in select regions
2: TAM doesn't need constant growth for the market to sustain itself. This is a lie that greedy shareholders and corporate suits put out there in their chase for impossible "infinite growth".
What actually matters is healthy sustained revenue & profits relative operating expenses. Something Microsoft failed at, Sony are trying to find a balance in, and Nintendo has solved.
Series consoles are closer to 26.2 million global sold-through (as of April 1), not 28 million. At least IMHO.
But yes, the US has been accounting for the heavy majority of Xbox console sales since the 360, in fact. I think some 42 million 360s were sold in the US alone.
They have a nice range of good games IMO. Forza Horizon 5, Flight Simulator, Minecraft, Sea of Thieves. Pentiment, HiFi Rush....
The real problem is they have no zeitgeist-amazing AAA bangers and, worst yet, no actual exclusives. Every single game is Day 1 on PC, rendering the console value moot.
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Unknown?
Member
Yeah way too lopsided. If you include North America, it's probably closer to 60%.
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nial
Member
You will keep hoping for that.
I actually want Apple to try, but if It's gonna be essentially a Xbox Series 2, don't bother.
On a side note, oh well, it looks like PlayStation only for me next gen as well. I won't be buying a Switch 2.
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Jibran#one
Member
Forza horizon became bigger after 4 and 5
Fm7 was huge forsa motorsport was one of the brands xbox was built on
They released the trailers of motorsport since the launch of of sx saying it was from the ground up and it absolutely suck.
I bought the sx only for motorsport just to wait for it 3 years and getting disappointed.
Starfield and buying of Activision came later.
They fucked up infinite too although it's a good game now and mostly feature complete but after like 1.5 years of releasing it when the game is almost dead.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
PC + Nintendo for me going forward. I legit have not turned on my ps5 since the FFXVI demo.
MikeM
Member
Migrating to the PC market. Gamers in careers can generally afford the jump.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So like 200 dollars less than a phone now?
Well.....to be fair a GTA current gen game hasn't been released yet. And we've had no price cuts on the consoles.
But they are generating more revenue and you know that. So that has to mean something......
The one thing about Microsoft's failure of the Xbox console is that it has allowed people likeMibu no ookami to be able to say the bolded. Console gaming isn't growing purely and ONLY due to MS and Phil's horrible management.
All we hear about on here is that revenue doesn't matter and profit is what matters. What is it?
Wasn't there data showing that Sonys margins are low/pretty dang bad?
That and Sony themselves saying they are trying to find ways to improve their margins.
This generation has been bad for them in profitability. We've seen the data on here. They are working to turn it around l now though.
Xbox is just a mess, no one knows what's going on there lol
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Forza Horizon was already the bigger Franchise by FH3. And not even close.
Starfield came with the 2021 purchase of Bethesda and was always slated to ship before Forza Motorsport.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But there are more people playing PC games now, than when compared to 2014. So is it really that bad?
Yes.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's 6 games in 3.5 years and only one truly next-gen game. Minecraft and Sea of Thieves are also from the Xbox One era and before. Hi-Fi Rush, Pentiment, and Sea of Thieves are on PS5 as well, effectively leaving you with 1 game you cannot play on PS5 and that's a simulation game.
I would not call this a wide selection against: Rift Apart, Returnal, FF XVI, FF VII Rebirth, Spider-Man 2, Ragnarok, Forbidden West, Demon's Souls, The Last of Us Part I, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin and a few more that I can't be bothered to list because I think I got the point across.
There is almost no reason to own a Series X over a PS5 right now. These are the most lopsided libraries we've seen in favor of the Playstation since the original Xbox era.
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Mahavastu
Member
It looks better then it is because of the supply problems in the beginning.
If you look at year 4 and 5 (2023 / 2024) when Playstation could ship, the relation is 1:2, and the difference is growing.
And this in the only major market left for XBox, it looks way worse in the rest of the world.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
All in the tea leaves...
There are some industries where only one company dominates. It's really rare when it comes to entertainment though. Even the iPhone only has 60% of the smartphone market in the US.
But you look at Steam on the PC and I think that's what we're going to have in the console market with Sony. Who was buying mp3 players that weren't iPods after they were the dominant player?
Sony will try to leverage their dominance in gaming to expand in entertainment across the board. If they can buy Paramount they'll be well on their way. Being dominant in entertainment can help you be dominant when it comes to hardware and vice versa. Sony knows this. It's the Apple model.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Is the shrinking due to lower interest in gaming, or older gamers graduating to PC? Microsoft is doing much better than I thought and there is 0 reason to own one if you have a nice gaming PC. For PS5 the only real reason to own one if you have a PC is getting first party games quicker.
For what it is worth I have a PC, gamepass, and a launch PS5
So....just looking at the chart would tell you it's ahead of the PS4...and this is your take away?
yurinka
Member
Source of these numbers? Seem to be just VGchartz-like user fan guessesSIE's largest lead in 20 years
PS5 adoption has skyrocketed over the last 18 months
Nov 2022 GoW Ragnarok #2
Dec 2022 GoW Ragnarok #3
Jan 2023 Forspoken#7 / GoW Ragnarok #8
Feb 2023 The Last of Us: Part 1 #6
Mar 2023 The Last of Us: Part 1 #5
Jun 2023 FF XVI #2
Jul 2023 FF XVI #5
Oct 2023 Spider-Man 2 #1
Nov 2023 Spider-Man 2 #2
Dec 2023 Spider-Man 2 #5
Jan 2024 The Last of Us: Part II # 9 / Spider-Man 2 #10
Feb 2024 Helldivers II #1 / FFVII: Rebirth #2
Mar 2024 Helldivers II #2 / Rise of the Ronin #5 / FFVII: Rebirth #7
Ps3 and 360 were about the same difference apart at this point launch aligned, and that ended with around 20M difference.
Of course, 360 had exceptional finish in US, but still, too early to tell what the delta might be in 4 years.
Loomy
Banned
It was over the moment they decided to open the reveal of their newest console(Xbox One) with it's DVR capabilities and follow that up with a permanently attached peripheral no one asked for.
feynoob
Banned
That was the most self sabotage moment in the history.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Considering people act like the ps5 sells at a 20 to 1 ratio, ya, you would think so.
Interesting numbers considering all the gloom and doom. In before "but in insert random country here, it's dead!" posts!
Might as well look at it like this, there are enough posts in here that think the current numbers aren't that bad.
Case in point, the post above, lol.
The 360 is looking more n more like an anomaly. I don't think MS will ever have a perfect storm like that gen to grab market share again.
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Trogdor1123
Member
Agreed. There needs to be more competition. Not less. Maybe steam will finally do something? Or that long rumoured tencent one?
feynoob
Banned
Sony will face it's biggest challenge with current regime.
Putting a financial person as your decision maker doesn't bode down very well in the long term.
All they care is $$$$ and not how consumers will react to their decision.
Agree.
I think it's time for some to accept this.
MS are in a real lose/lose situation. They might as well follow Nintendo and try to be in their own lane.
Loomy
Banned
They launched a full year ahead of the PS3, and the PS3 was ridiculously expensive when it finally launched. By the time it came out, it became obvious that if you wanted a "robust" and truly next gen(so, PC like) multiplayer experience - your only option was the 360.
Because of that - even after the PS3 came out, a lot of games were released on 360 first because that's the devkit developers had ready first.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
I've heard of these "aaa games" things before, is that something new?
I just finished watching ducktales and duck dynasty on my series X. Migration and Howard the duck on future playlist.
Loomy
Banned
They have the right idea. Hardware isn't going to get them anywhere. They need content. The problem is that their original first party studios aren't doing them any favours, which is why they had to go on a content spending spree.
By the time they have it all figured out and get regular releases out, Xbox as a platform might not be viable. Or at least profitable enough to continue.
feynoob
Banned
X360 had call of duty.
nial
Member
It all accumulates into larger, global sales, which are pretty bad.
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nial
Member
They already released a console for the Chinese market back in 2016, which I assume it's well discontinued by this point.
I really doubt Tencent wants to compete with Sony and Nintendo on a global scale.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
“I thought Xbox was doing worse”. This is their best territory and they are being manhandled. No way to spin it.
Be thankful this isn’t a worldwide thread. It would look like one of them is sleeping during the race.
Be thankful this isn’t a worldwide thread. It would look like one of them is sleeping during the race.
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Ogbert
Member
Why’s it spin?
I’m legitimately surprised they’ve managed to sell that many consoles. Their games suck. It’s also why I don’t think MS going third party achieves anything. I don’t think PS owners want MS titles.
I expected the gap to be bigger.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Because this is the US and expectations should be met accordingly. The gap here is bigger than it has been in a long time. That’s….. disastrous because the picture isn’t only seen through the lense of one territory.
It’s also a significant drop from their best Xbox. And it’s not just because of a flop here and there either. There’s a cultural shift within Xbox that has created this.
Because this is their strongest territory, they are doing better here than everywhere else (relatively speaking), but in the grand scheme, it is disastrous.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I'll make this really easy for you: Because then you'd have to buy a PS, use that controller and pay for their online. All of those are a hard pass for me, unless I'm left with no viable alternative. I much prefer Xbox.
I'll always have the newest Nintendo console as well, of course, but it's a secondary console to play mostly Nintendo games on.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
If anyone needs the year-by-year ratios (PS5 to XS+X):
Year 1: 1.3 to 1
Year 2: 1.1 to 1
Year 3: 1.3 to 1
Year 4: 1.8 to 1
Year 5 (so far): 2.3 to 1
LTD: 1.4 to 1
You can see the PS5 had a small advantage during the first three years, but that ramped up considerably in Year 4 and 5. And the trend is upward.
To the best of my recollection, the sales ratio for PS4 vs. Xbox One only hit 1.8 to 1 during the last year of that generation. This time it hit that level halfway through the gen.
This is despite having a much cheaper console contributing the majority of those Xbox numbers. And it's also despite rock-bottom prices at Crazy Phil's Discount Emporium.
Year 1: 1.3 to 1
Year 2: 1.1 to 1
Year 3: 1.3 to 1
Year 4: 1.8 to 1
Year 5 (so far): 2.3 to 1
LTD: 1.4 to 1
You can see the PS5 had a small advantage during the first three years, but that ramped up considerably in Year 4 and 5. And the trend is upward.
To the best of my recollection, the sales ratio for PS4 vs. Xbox One only hit 1.8 to 1 during the last year of that generation. This time it hit that level halfway through the gen.
This is despite having a much cheaper console contributing the majority of those Xbox numbers. And it's also despite rock-bottom prices at Crazy Phil's Discount Emporium.
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Mibu no ookami
Banned
First, Totoki is an interim CEO of SIE or if you're referring to Kenichiro Yoshida the CEO of Sony Group, who was once CFO of Sony Group, I think you're mistaken a bit.
They care about growth and profitability. You've had all sorts of CEOs of Sony and SIE through the years. Ultimately, it is their decision making that matters the most.
Sony is in a unique situation and for once they're actually recognizing it. They wasted the last 20 years and their growth was stunted as a result.
Invalid GR
Member
Is there any info on how each of the Series consoles is performing on sales?
Most of the data I have seen are always combined sales.
Most of the data I have seen are always combined sales.
Humdinger
Gold Member
I've heard that it's roughly 75% series S, 25% series X, but I don't have a link to substantiate that. I could be off.
JerryinSoCal
Member
Just looking at the last two years it's clear that demand for xbox is dropping, let's not forget the US is by far their strongest market, the difference globally is going to be much larger. Last year it was nearly 2 to 1 and this year so far it's over 2 to 1 in the US. It's crazy when you look at the fact that the Series S is only $299 and has sold significantly more units than the Series X.
Right. Before the gen started the Series S was gonna have Sony in a rough spot between the XSX and Series S.
The Series S was gonna lead to in increase in market share.
Game Pass + The Series S = danger for Sony.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Then the question becomes what's viable for Xbox.
DeVeAn
Member
If you are someone who doesn't care about Playstation games or prefer Xbox controller, those are a couple of points.
JerryinSoCal
Member
Yeah during the 360 generation they had a 15 million sales lead in the US, that changed with the xbox one and while they were more competitive here than most places they were still outsold by the PS4 and now you have this generation going worse for them than the last one all while having the cheapest option available.
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Oddvintagechap
Banned
shouldn’t be an option. cause it’s a suboption that developers have to restrict their games to.
They clearly have rushed their games, some investment goes into the games, but the alot of it goes into taking a financial hit per release for subscriber numbers increases.
Each release becomes less about being as good as possible, to churning games out for the optics of having constant day one releases for consumers to feel their are getting a steal. Instead you just get a bunch of games that don’t respect your time.
Not sure how that’s your concern since you’re not a dev. Consumers don’t seem to be significantly impacted
This is an illogical argument.
Aside from the fact that they’ve been willing to delay games for up to a year on multiple occasions, your initial comment was about investment in first party games. And they did that buy massively expanding their first party setup via acquisitions, funding more AAA titles than they’ve ever had as Xbox and expanding internal studios
Their games are sold on retail on Steam day one, so clearly not designed for subscription services.
This all reads like aimless criticism for criticism sake.
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