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[Neo_game]

I was expecting a bigger gap. But since half of the Xbox console sold are probably SS then PS5 to SX ratio is 3:1 and world wide I think it is 4:1 which is massive. I was a big anti SS guy. IMO it was a stupid idea to release a gimped console instead they should be releasing more high end. But had SS not been released it would be interesting to see if there is demand of SX ? or people have just moved on to PC or PS5 instead.

Phil Spencer has to be one of the most rare under performing CEO and some how still keeping his job.

 

[feynoob]

Are they trying to put developers on suicide watch?

MS never makes any sense sadly.

 

[Salz01]

This and PS studios outside of Insomniac are basically coasting this gen…

 

[SportsFan581]

What's crazy is how static the numbers are LTD. Basically no growth at all between the generations, just a rearrangement of the numbers. Despite the fact that the population has still been growing.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'm not sure if you can say it isn't growing. The data is murky because of the change in variables.

Some people use the Switch as a console. Millions of fortnite players on Switch.

TAM kind of goes out of the window when you consider the PS2 was a DVD player, the wii was such a non-gamer device, and the switch is a hybrid.

If we compare PS1/Saturn/N64 to PS4/X1, Ps4 outsold ps1 and saturn combined, and the X1 outsold the n64 by nearly double. So not taking into account the switch or the wii u at all, we've seen growth from the late 90s.

At the end of the day, what we know of console gaming is about to come to its conclusion. The PS6 will probably be the only traditional game console on the market. How many units will it sell? Really depends on how attitudes shift among Gen Z.

Sadly, the reality of all of this is not taken into consideration at all. Sure, some people will go into the nitty gritty details but in reality shareholders and businesses want to see growth. While these reasons are valid, businesses don't really want to hear "Excuses"

Things cost more expensive now, everything does.

The reality is the console market is showing signs of shrinking and not growing. That's the reality.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sadly, the reality of all of this is not taken into consideration at all. Sure, some people will go into the nitty gritty details but in reality shareholders and businesses want to see growth. While these reasons are valid, businesses don't really want to hear "Excuses"

Things cost more expensive now, everything does.

The reality is the console market is showing signs of shrinking and not growing. That's the reality.

Normally, I would say, it would be best to judge generations based on software sales. Throw in handheld gaming from the start, but I think GaaS and F2P have blown that up.

There are so many people now who only really play Madden, EA FC, CoD, Red Dead Online, GTA Online, Roblox, Fortnite...

It's a real problem for many of us who aren't interested in where gaming is going.

I think it's fair to say traditional console gaming isn't growing. That model itself has probably peaked and we probably have to throw the numbers from that period of time out of the window, but I also think that people are writing an obituary prematurely.

We're about to see how many PC gamers decide they can wait a year+ to get GTA6, especially if it has online from the start or at least significantly after consoles get it. It took a year and a half last time for PC to get it.

 

[Ogbert]

Am I missing something?

That doesn’t look that bad. Obviously Sony ahead, we all know that. But it’s not end of days stuff.

 

[XXL]

Am I missing something?

That doesn’t look that bad. Obviously Sony ahead, we all know that. But it’s not end of days stuff.

Yes.

This is the US where they are almost always historically dead even (or Xbox having a lead).

Worldwide Playstation sells waaaaay more than Xbox.

This is the closest ratio worldwide, aside from maybe Mexico.

This isn't just not bad, it's a fucking disaster.

 

[Topher]

Sadly, the reality of all of this is not taken into consideration at all. Sure, some people will go into the nitty gritty details but in reality shareholders and businesses want to see growth. While these reasons are valid, businesses don't really want to hear "Excuses"

Things cost more expensive now, everything does.

The reality is the console market is showing signs of shrinking and not growing. That's the reality.

How is that the "reality" when we are looking at a chart that shows more overall sales in the US this gen than last?

 

[Horseganador]

 

[DenchDeckard]

How is that the "reality" when we are looking at a chart that shows more overall sales in the US this gen than last?

Am I being stupid here? theres a possibility lol

I'm looking at this and seeing that PS4 plus XBox One came to 34.97 Mill
- PS5 plus X/S comes to 34.27? minus 700k launch aligned?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Cross gen and most games being multiplatform are absolutely a factor. Why buy two devices just to play Fortnite?

But more importantly, who buys an Xbox when you can just buy a Playstation and still play both PS and Xbox games?

I just question it overall. I think some people go to PC for sure. I think some people have gone to Switch and that's just not considered as much as a possibility. I think a lot of households just bought a Switch and that was that for the generation. We don't see the Switch as a direct competitor, but in a lot of ways it is. It's a massive competitor when it comes to time. If someone is playing Zelda or Animal Crossing they aren't spending that time playing Horizon or Spider-Man.

One thing Sony and Microsoft have given up on is family oriented titles and kid oriented titles. And maybe these games won't sell well right away, but overtime and with investment that could grow.

I think that might be part of Sony's thinking in buying Paramount and utilizing Nickelodeon franchises to attract a younger audience.

I'm with you. Playstation and Nintendo will be competing with eachother gping forward.

Sony will definitely not be sleeping on Nintendo, now that they got Switch.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I am pretty sure supply constraints give it a bit of a different outlook. PS5 is gaining a noticable lead from Y3 onward. On top of that, don't forget MS had a 299 SKU ready since launch, this is mainstream pricing territory.

But the biggest worry might be that gaming overall doesn't really seem to go anywhere. I do think they need to rethink their strategies. Personally I don't need these blockbuster sized projects. I'd rather have lower stakes but higher output. Where is Naughty Dog for example? They released 4 PS3 games.

 

[Topher]

Am I being stupid here? theres a possibility lol

I'm looking at this and seeing that PS4 plus XBox One came to 34.97 Mill
- PS5 plus X/S comes to 34.27? minus 700k launch aligned?

Nah.....I'm wrong. I was reading it backwards. My bad.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

US is far & away Xbox's strongest market. Been that way since 2001. It's why Xbox may get ports that some think wouldn't sell. But a publisher looks at the US share of the console market (non-Nintendo) and makes their assessment that you need to port your games to Xbox. Can't leave all that money on the table!

What's so funny to think about is that GameCube was relatively popular (in early 2000s terms), and yet it only sold 12 million LTD in the US. Ever! That's it.

Series X|S will easily top out double that. Xbox hardware ain't going away. It'll never match Playstation ever again, but it ain't going away, folks.

 

[XXL]

Nah.....I'm wrong. I was reading it backwards. My bad.

No your not that wrong, the Nintendo Switch still exists and it's numbers aren't listed here.

 

[Topher]

No your not that wrong, the Nintendo Switch still exists and it's numbers aren't listed here.

That's a valid point, but I'm still wrong as far as reading the numbers wrong in this thread.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But more importantly, who buys an Xbox when you can just buy a Playstation and still play both PS and Xbox games?

People who want GamePass. While Xbox games are coming to PlayStation, they're not there yet. Fans of Halo, Forza, Gears, Flight Simulator, Bethesda...

I'm with you. Playstation and Nintendo will be competing with eachother gping forward.

Sony will definitely not be sleeping on Nintendo, now that they got Switch.

It'll be very very interesting to see what Sony doesn't with their handheld.

Is it just enough to match the Switch 2 on price? If they're successful in buying Paramount, how will PlayStation marketing change and when? How much cross marketing do we see. Do they buy Sega to get Sonic and make him Sony's new mascot? It'll be a very interesting time.

 

[rickybooby87]

 

[Killjoy-NL]

People who want GamePass. While Xbox games are coming to PlayStation, they're not there yet. Fans of Halo, Forza, Gears, Flight Simulator, Bethesda...

True, but I'm thinking going forward as well.
And now that Xbox is preparing to launch cloud streaming, there will be even less reason to own an Xbox.

It'll be very very interesting to see what Sony doesn't with their handheld.

Is it just enough to match the Switch 2 on price? If they're successful in buying Paramount, how will PlayStation marketing change and when? How much cross marketing do we see. Do they buy Sega to get Sonic and make him Sony's new mascot? It'll be a very interesting time.

I wonder if they'll release a handheld though.

 

[StereoVsn]

That is not what I am saying at all......do you know what TAM is, or total available market.....that's what I am discussing.

This is certainly concerning to 3rd parties, IMO, and of course to MS first parties.

 

[rm082e]

The thing that really strikes me about these numbers is Microsoft now has roughly 2x the number of studios and headcount of PlayStation. Twice as many mouths to feed, while being a smaller market share than PlayStation that is also shrinking over time. And if we looked at world wide numbers, it's even more skewed in PlayStation's favor...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

True, but I'm thinking going forward as well.
And now that Xbox is preparing to launch cloud streaming, there will be even less reason to own an Xbox.

You'll still have some diehard fanboys and then you'll have people who just see it as the best pre-built gaming PC. Microsoft doesn't need to run margins as high as say Dell/Alienware, because they're going to make *some* money from software. They could fairly easily corner the rebuilt gaming rig market. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I wonder if they'll release a handheld though.

We already know they are. This was confirmed by MLiD.

PSSR is probably the first step in that with the PS5 Pro. I would expect PSSR to play a large part in reducing the GPU demands on a handheld that already only needs to hit 720p or 1080p.

The biggest question at this point is when and how much.

The PSP was significantly more expensive than the DS when it launched, but Sony looked more to parity with the Vita and 3DS, but the 3DS dropped in price pretty quickly.

Sony should be looking to get a device out for the cheapest price possible.

 

[ungalo]

To think that i actually bought it despite the non-existent line up.

 

[Vroadstar]

So basically no much different and 2m gained by PS are basically those who went from Xbox to PS.

Console market has not grown and Xbox is not dying

 

[VanCityGamer]

This thread has really revealed how many people don’t understand the sales dynamics which is fair enough. The number of “it’s not nearly as bad as I expected for Xbox, not so bad” comments has me scratching my head. It’s a complete unmitigated disaster considering the US is where Microsoft has basically always been close with Sony (even beat them with the 360). And look at the rate that the gap is accelerating over the past couple years. If you told them before the generation started that they wouldn’t even beat the Xbox One, they’d consider that a failure no question.

 

[demigod]

Can’t blame him, they are a special breed.

 

[Topher]

This thread has really revealed how many people don’t understand the sales dynamics which is fair enough. The number of “it’s not nearly as bad as I expected for Xbox, not so bad” comments has me scratching my head. It’s a complete unmitigated disaster considering the US is where Microsoft has basically always been on par with Sony. And look at the rate that the gap is accelerating over the past couple years.

Throw in Phil Spencer's admission that Microsoft loses $100-200 on each unit sold.

No wonder Microsoft is eager to move on to next gen.

 

[conpfreak]

This thread has really revealed how many people don’t understand the sales dynamics which is fair enough. The number of “it’s not nearly as bad as I expected for Xbox, not so bad” comments has me scratching my head. It’s a complete unmitigated disaster considering the US is where Microsoft has basically always been on par with Sony. And look at the rate that the gap is accelerating over the past couple years.

Does Microsoft even care? They are certainly growing their PC and cloud streaming business via Game Pass. They also now have a collection of first party studios to push out decent enough games. As long as the first party content quality improves over the next few years and MS drops some kind of portable PC to capture that growing part of the market, I doubt MS cares if they believe they are on a path to sustained profitability.

 

[VanCityGamer]

Does Microsoft even care? They are certainly growing their PC and cloud streaming business via Game Pass. They also now have a collection of first party studios to push out decent enough games. As long as the first party content quality improves over the next few years and MS drops some kind of portable PC to capture that growing part of the market, I doubt MS cares if they believe they are on a path to sustained profitability.

That’s a silly question. Of course they care, otherwise they would not have made the console. They wanted it it to succeed. Now, will they adjust their strategy in a way that might pay off? Different conversation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah...and when you factor in the rest of the world.....

I totally believe MS wants to launch their next gen console sooner now.

If Microsoft really does shift to making a line of gaming PCs there really isn't a timeline for them to launch that like there is for console generations.

They can have an AMD line of PCs and an Nvidia line of PCs. The Xbox uses AMD but the Surface uses Nvidia. Depending on how they resolve virtualization, it could go either way, that's the biggest thing that will prevent them from launching today.

They have to try and virtualize the entire Xbox environment or they'll just say that these gaming PCs aren't BC on day 1 and they'll just convey digital licenses for 1st party games people own.

They'll probably release several models every year.

 

[Topher]

Does Microsoft even care?

Ask Nokia

 

[nial]

One thing Sony and Microsoft have given up on is family oriented titles and kid oriented titles. And maybe these games won't sell well right away, but overtime and with investment that could grow.

They flopped most of the time, at least those made for Western markets.
I wouldn't say that they have given up, when they still have Sackboy, Ratchet, Astro and the next Media Molecule and Team Asobi projects. Even the Spider-Man games are generally popular with kids, much, MUCH more than their other big AAA titles.
Also, I remember Hermen Hulst saying at some point that PS Studios would release more family-oriented projects over the coming years, so It's something under consideration for them.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

SIE's largest lead in 20 years

PS5 adoption has skyrocketed over the last 18 months
Nov 2022 GoW Ragnarok #2
Dec 2022 GoW Ragnarok #3
Jan 2023 Forspoken#7 / GoW Ragnarok #8
Feb 2023 The Last of Us: Part 1 #6
Mar 2023 The Last of Us: Part 1 #5
Jun 2023 FF XVI #2
Jul 2023 FF XVI #5
Oct 2023 Spider-Man 2 #1
Nov 2023 Spider-Man 2 #2
Dec 2023 Spider-Man 2 #5
Jan 2024 The Last of Us: Part II # 9 / Spider-Man 2 #10
Feb 2024 Helldivers II #1 / FFVII: Rebirth #2
Mar 2024 Helldivers II #2 / Rise of the Ronin #5 / FFVII: Rebirth #7

Combined sales down when comparing generations. Not good with higher game budgets.

 

[mckmas8808]

so 6 million difference. It's not two to one or three to one in the US?
- I thought it was that bad tbh.

What I find interesting is that the TAM is not growing at all, it's just 2 million people decided to buy the PS5 instead of the Series consoles. It's actually shrinking and that's with Covid boom demand.

Higher console price and inflation.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Higher console price and inflation.

How much do phones cost VS 2013?

Graphics cards?

TVs?

Any other tech items?

Are they all suffering the same fate?

 

[CLW]

Phil Spencer is a

 

[Mr Moose]

How much do phones cost VS 2013?

Graphics cards?

TVs?

Any other tech items?

Are they all suffering the same fate?

Ask AMD.

Hardware - Sales-Age - AMD confirms Radeon GPU sales have nosedived

The numbers don’t lie, AMD is struggling to sell both its custom and discrete Radeon GPUs. To make matters worse, this decline in sales not only encompasses the past two financial quarters, but applies to year-on-year figures too. Try as AMD might to break the stranglehold Nvidia has on the GPU...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Cyberpunkd]

How much do phones cost VS 2013?

Graphics cards?

TVs?

Any other tech items?

Are they all suffering the same fate?

iPhone 5s was released in 2013. The base model was $649.

 

[mckmas8808]

A lot of people fought me when I said the Xbox Series would be lucky to sell 35-40 million units.

I was one of the people that fought you on this. Looks like I'm gonna be wrong and you maybe right. I was thinking the floor for XBS was 40 million and the high is 50 million units sold.

At the end of the day, what we know of console gaming is about to come to its conclusion. The PS6 will probably be the only traditional game console on the market. How many units will it sell? Really depends on how attitudes shift among Gen Z.

Conclusion! Huh?

 

[Shubh_C63]

I must be wrong because otherwise others would had pointed this out already but..

Only 20M hardware sold for the market leader console ? In 5 years ?
Seems awfully low to me. Is this thing gonna touch the 80 or 100 mark in its lifecycle.

 

[th4tguy]

Higher console price and inflation.

And years of stock issues. Only being able to buy a console through scalpers for 2-3x the normal price, didn't help.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Xbox is in an lose/lose situation. Pack it up early on Series X and launch a new console early, then Sony will have a stronger console because they waited longer for new AMD shit. Ride out this console until 2028, and you are just bleeding even more market share because consumers don’t want it.

I hope Apple or somebody else comes along and makes a proper competitor for ps6. Sony as the only “high end” console on the market will be terrible.

 

[Topher]

I must be wrong because otherwise others would had pointed this out already but..

Only 20M hardware sold for the market leader console ? In 5 years ?
Seems awfully low to me. Is this thing gonna touch the 80 or 100 mark in its lifecycle.

This is only in the US.

 

[mckmas8808]

What's crazy is how static the numbers are LTD. Basically no growth at all between the generations, just a rearrangement of the numbers. Despite the fact that the population has still been growing.

Well.....to be fair a GTA current gen game hasn't been released yet. And we've had no price cuts on the consoles.

Sadly, the reality of all of this is not taken into consideration at all. Sure, some people will go into the nitty gritty details but in reality shareholders and businesses want to see growth. While these reasons are valid, businesses don't really want to hear "Excuses"

Things cost more expensive now, everything does.

The reality is the console market is showing signs of shrinking and not growing. That's the reality.

But they are generating more revenue and you know that. So that has to mean something......

Normally, I would say, it would be best to judge generations based on software sales. Throw in handheld gaming from the start, but I think GaaS and F2P have blown that up.

There are so many people now who only really play Madden, EA FC, CoD, Red Dead Online, GTA Online, Roblox, Fortnite...

It's a real problem for many of us who aren't interested in where gaming is going.

I think it's fair to say traditional console gaming isn't growing. That model itself has probably peaked and we probably have to throw the numbers from that period of time out of the window, but I also think that people are writing an obituary prematurely.

We're about to see how many PC gamers decide they can wait a year+ to get GTA6, especially if it has online from the start or at least significantly after consoles get it. It took a year and a half last time for PC to get it.

The one thing about Microsoft's failure of the Xbox console is that it has allowed people like Mibu no ookami to be able to say the bolded. Console gaming isn't growing purely and ONLY due to MS and Phil's horrible management.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Combined sales down when comparing generations. Not good with higher game budgets.

LOL uh that's because Nintendo Switch exists

I get that GAF pretends the Switch isn't a real console and that's fine, no one on GAF has phones either because the average age here is apparently 63

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I must be wrong because otherwise others would had pointed this out already but..

Only 20M hardware sold for the market leader console ? In 5 years ?
Seems awfully low to me. Is this thing gonna touch the 80 or 100 mark in its lifecycle.

Why wouldn't it reach 100M worldwide sales just because you base it solely off the US mid-gen?

 

[diffusionx]

I concur with a few comments here, I thought Xbox would be doing worse. Now, I need to see the European numbers, must be a bloodbath.

I would love to see what the S/X split is, and what percentage of Xbox are actually used vs. PS5.

Because I suspect that a lot of Series S were traded in or thrown in the closet as soon as PS5 could be purchased easily.

 

[Mr Moose]

I must be wrong because otherwise others would had pointed this out already but..

Only 20M hardware sold for the market leader console ? In 5 years ?
Seems awfully low to me. Is this thing gonna touch the 80 or 100 mark in its lifecycle.

5 years?

3 years 5 months
12 November 2020 – 3 May 2024

 

[StereoVsn]

Xbox is in an lose/lose situation. Pack it up early on Series X and launch a new console early, then Sony will have a stronger console because they waited longer for new AMD shit. Ride out this console until 2028, and you are just bleeding even more market share because consumers don’t want it.

I hope Apple or somebody else comes along and makes a proper competitor for ps6. Sony as the only “high end” console on the market will be terrible.

Apple makes more money than MS and Sony combined in gaming. They don’t need to do jack shit. At most they will release an updated Apple TV.