US Presidential Foreign Policy Debate |OT| Please proceed, governor

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bdizzle said:
How the fuck is that an interesting line of thought? The only requirement to being the first lady is being married to the president, so why would her birthplace even be and issue?

And how does Michelle act like more like a black woman than Obama acts like a black man?
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Relax, dear. I was just posting what I remember about the article. I said it was interesting because of the way the author presented it.
 
SouthernDragon said:
Can I ask a question?

Did anyone compile timelinks to specific Obama-ownage moments?

I'm watching the debate right now. Might miss some as I am also studying.
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Not sure if it's an ownage moment but I just saw the Navy back and forth by Romney and Obama and man, the president just makes Romney look like a dunce that doesn't think about what's going on at all. Horses and Bayonets!
 
Canuck76 said:
Is the Communist stuff racist though? Or just uneducated?

I mean look if i had some great frigging story on how a policy would affect me or has affected me i would tell it. Truth is not much Obama, has or hasn't done really hasn't affected me at all. He's not a bad President and just because I'm not a fan of obama doesn't mean i'm waving the flag for romney

Specifically what i don't like about Obama is all the social stuff. He's pretty much for abortion if I'm getting the facts right. He doesn't even want them to be "rare" like Bill Clinton. That's a big one. The defecit is another big one, spending all this money on health care when were in a recession is unwise i think. Just this general tone of wanting to get people to like us. He had this whole apologetic thing, just sucking up for all of Bush's "mistakes" going on right after he was elected, wanting the world to love America again. That kind of struck me wrong way.

But he's handled situations pretty deftly and "presidentially" if i can make up a word. He's got tact and calmness. With the Libya and Osama stuff i thought he was dead on.
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Conservative Gut Feelings (tm).
 
Xplatformer said:
Well...after reading GAF I thought sure Mr. Romney would suck.

After watching...he didn't. I thought President Obama did the better job, but not by a landslide.


Right now...I can see why this election is a toss up, and as an Obama supporter I'm not happy about it. I kinda wouldn't mind if Romney of 2 years ago was the Vice President right now.
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Well yeah if you find it acceptable for a presidential candidate to change his positions week in, week out while he lies about having changed them then sure, Romney did just fine.
 
Specifically what i don't like about Obama is all the social stuff. He's pretty much for abortion if I'm getting the facts right. He doesn't even want them to be "rare" like Bill Clinton. That's a big one. The defecit is another big one, spending all this money on health care when were in a recession is unwise i think. Just this general tone of wanting to get people to like us. He had this whole apologetic thing, just sucking up for all of Bush's "mistakes" going on right after he was elected, wanting the world to love America again. That kind of struck me wrong way.
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Uh... I hate to ask this but how old are you and where exactly do you get your information from? First of all, contraceptives have been shown to be the best way at preventing unplanned pregancies and therefore abortions. I don't know where you got the idea Obama wanted everyone to run around gettting abortions. Pro choice people for the most part do not take glee in people getting abortions.

Second of all in the middle of a recessions letting people go banrupt due to healthcare costs would be more a burden on our country than trying to make steps towards fixing our system.

Thirdly, how arrogant should America be? Obama not once never "sucked up" to anyone. If meeting with people is considered sucking up now, than our foreign policy status is screwed
 
Dax01 said:
Re: Birther talk: I wish I could find it now, but I remember reading an article that brought up the following question: Why is Barack's birth questioned, but not Michelle's? The author attributed this to racism, and that the reason Obama's birth is questioned is because he doesn't really act like your stereotypical black man, and Michelle acts more of what you would expect of a black woman.

An interesting line of thought even if it is wrong.
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tumblr_mbddbysL971qc8jh0o8_r1_250.gif
 
I already assume the election is over and Obama has won. Which leaves us with a president with a very "republican" foreign policy anyway. The point being there is no peaceful resolution in the Middle East is sight despite that being the goal put forward by both politicians. So is it really a stretch to call them both liars?

http://www.france24.com/en/20120912...l-palestinian-mitt-romney-muslims-middle-east
http://www.salon.com/2011/07/13/arabs/ "US more unpopular in the Arab world than under Bush"

Did Palestine (or Palestinians) get mentioned once in the debate? Hamas (as a terrorist organization) got mentioned several times and Israel somewhere around 20 times. Drones were entirely praised, which is surreal given they are flying death machines linked to a history of civilian deaths, but also shows that bipartisan agreement is more or less equal of worth to a blessing right out of the Lord's mouth.

What of the "smaller" details? The case of Bradly Manning for example. How about Obama actively fighting (after first feigning disinterest) to gain to the power to imprison anyone, anywhere, for any reason?

Now it is hard for me get passionate about these things, but GAF seems to be acting like the debate was worth winning in the first place. Are we going to bounce between moral outrage of Romney's perspective and then praise Obama as a master politician for believing in many of the same things yet having more zingers?
 
pecifically what i don't like about Obama is all the social stuff. He's pretty much for abortion if I'm getting the facts right. He doesn't even want them to be "rare" like Bill Clinton. That's a big one. The defecit is another big one, spending all this money on health care when were in a recession is unwise i think. Just this general tone of wanting to get people to like us. He had this whole apologetic thing, just sucking up for all of Bush's "mistakes" going on right after he was elected, wanting the world to love America again. That kind of struck me wrong way.
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After a disastrous 8 years with foreign relations, I don't understand why anyone has an issue with a president going around trying to improve those relations. I don't see where that comes off as weak in any way. It seems like a pretty logical thing to do to me.

On the abortion thing, I know everyone has personal and/or religious reasons to be for or against it, but how does someone you'll never know having the right to get an abortion have any bearing on your life? That isn't specifically at you. It being legal doesn't mean abortions are going to be performed in your front yard or something. There are a whole lot of things that people have issues with that are legal, but never get any thought because the legality of such things has zero impact on your life. I don't get how abortion became such an important issue to be that will likely never be encountered by the majority of people in the country, especially ones that very against it to begin with.

But someone supporting the legality of abortion doesn't mean they are "for" it, like they encourage people to do it for fun or something.
 
Now it is hard for me get passionate about these things, but GAF seems to be acting like the debate was worth winning in the first place. Are we going to bounce between moral outrage of Romney's perspective and then praise Obama as a master politician for believing in many of the same things yet having more zingers?
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If you look earlier in the thread, you'll see a bunch of people actually criticizing the actual debate (or lack thereof). People are just happy to see Romney lose. But I agree with whoever said a 3rd party should be allowed into these debates to call both parties on their bullshit because foreign policy is one of the few issues where both parties are pretty terrible.
 
ZackusMaximus said:
Ugh it always rubs me the wrong way when Americans can the Democratic party liberal. Our Canadian Conservative party is more liberal than the American Democrats.

I fear for the world if that crazy right wing mormon gets elected.
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I'd still pick Barry over the Devil's Cabana Boy Harper tho.
 
pigeon said:
Sorry, this is really crossing the line from "devil's advocate" to "actively bullshit." Guess what, if you think acting racist is an appropriate way to express your conservative values you're STILL RACIST. Ironic racism is bullshit when hipster liberals claim to be doing it and it's damn sure bullshit when Confederate Southerners claim to be doing it.



You can when they wear them on their sleeves.
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Well said, and ouch at the second point.

Anyone who thinks there's a legitimate reason to display that trash can go fuck themselves.
 
Shouta said:
Not sure if it's an ownage moment but I just saw the Navy back and forth by Romney and Obama and man, the president just makes Romney look like a dunce that doesn't think about what's going on at all. Horses and Bayonets!
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I saw that, and it was glorious. Obama dismantled that argument entirely. There was no recovery from that.
 
Canuck76 said:
Is the Communist stuff racist though? Or just uneducated?

I mean look if i had some great frigging story on how a policy would affect me or has affected me i would tell it. Truth is not much Obama, has or hasn't done really hasn't affected me at all. He's not a bad President and just because I'm not a fan of obama doesn't mean i'm waving the flag for romney

Specifically what i don't like about Obama is all the social stuff. He's pretty much for abortion if I'm getting the facts right. He doesn't even want them to be "rare" like Bill Clinton. That's a big one. The defecit is another big one, spending all this money on health care when were in a recession is unwise i think. Just this general tone of wanting to get people to like us. He had this whole apologetic thing, just sucking up for all of Bush's "mistakes" going on right after he was elected, wanting the world to love America again. That kind of struck me wrong way.

But he's handled situations pretty deftly and "presidentially" if i can make up a word. He's got tact and calmness. With the Libya and Osama stuff i thought he was dead on.

Hahahaha gotta love that video Mamba posted a page back
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Abortion is an act made by someone with an unwanted pregnancy!

There is no "rare" or "common", just want or not want.

There are ways you can decrease the amount of unwanted pregnancies.

One way is to invest more into education of safe sex practices, free and easy access to birth control, and a general change in society talking about sex.

Another way would be government investment into the costs of raising a child, we all pay for the costs of raising a child so a poor person wouldn't feel the costs of raising a child were unobtainable.

Those two would make abortions rarer, do you wish either of those?
 
Obama got control of the debate near the beginning with the line "foreign policy of the 1980s, social views of the 1950s, and economic views of the 1920s."
 
Dax01 said:
Re: Birther talk: I wish I could find it now, but I remember reading an article that brought up the following question: Why is Barack's birth questioned, but not Michelle's? The author attributed this to racism, and that the reason Obama's birth is questioned is because he doesn't really act like your stereotypical black man, and Michelle acts more of what you would expect of a black woman.

An interesting line of thought even if it is wrong.
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her family is about as American as it can get..
 
travisbickle said:
Abortion is an act made by someone with an unwanted pregnancy!

There is no "rare" or "common", just want or not want.

There are ways you can decrease the amount of unwanted pregnancies.

One way is to invest more into education of safe sex practices, free and easy access to birth control, and a general change in society talking about sex.

Another way would be government investment into the costs of raising a child, we all pay for the costs of raising a child so a poor person wouldn't feel the costs of raising a child were unobtainable.

Those two would make abortions rarer, do you wish either of those?
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I think when talking about this it's really important to note that in most countries, permissive policies about abortion usually come with some degree of either or both of these things (the people who advocate for one generally advocate for the other) and thus also usually come with *decreased* abortion rates. Pro-life people are far less likely to advocate for easy access to birth control or education about birth control.

Oh, and outlawing it does not tend to have a major effect on decreasing the rate either, incidentally. What it does do is increase the rate of mortality associated with abortion.
 
Watching republicans on twitter willfully miss the President's point on bayonets and horses makes my brain want to pop!

"Marines still USE BAYONETS Obummer, jokes on YOU! Betcha didn't know THAT ONE!"

I know it stings to watch the President crush your guy, but willingly being stupid just to oppose the President is breathetaking!
 
JCreasy said:
Watching republicans on twitter willfully miss the President's point on bayonets and horses makes my brain want to pop!

"Marines still USE BAYONETS Obummer, jokes on YOU! Betcha didn't know THAT ONE!"

I know it stings to watch the President crush your guy, but willingly being stupid just to oppose the President is breathetaking!
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Eh, let them. I thought Romney's geography gaffe was much worse.
 
Romney basically avoided saying anything of substance because he knows that his foreign policy would be exactly the same as Obama. He just occasionally said he would've done things faster or better but do essentially the same thing.
 
devilhawk said:
Romney and Obama have very similar opinions on foreign policy. That was quite evident tonight. So it stands to reason that when suggesting Romney and republicans have an 80's era foreign policy approach, so indeed would the president.
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Romney and Obama didn't have similar views on foreign policy before the debate.
 
What is this apology tour that Romney keeps referring to? Is it an actual thing that Obama said and he's spinning it as an "apology tour" or is he just pulling that out of his ass?
 
Couldn't watch the whole thing. only the first 20 mins or so, but Obama was very aggressive from the start. I think it was for the better. Romney was't able to deliver with the same energy.

Will watch it all soon.
 
Dax01 said:
Romney and Obama didn't have similar views on foreign policy before the debate.
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No, they really do. You have to get beyond the pointless exaggerations about speeches and apologies and perceptions of strength. As far as actions go, Romney wouldn't be doing much different. He has been desperately, and failing at it, trying to create a difference between himself and Obama by flinging crap about Libya and Iran and Syria but all in non-specifics. The fact remains that Romney can't name, even when pressed, any actions he would do differently, because there is nothing to be done differently.
 
devilhawk said:
No, they really do. You have to get beyond the pointless exaggerations about speeches and apologies and perceptions of strength. As far as actions go, Romney wouldn't be doing much different. He has been desperately, and failing at it, trying to create a difference between himself and Obama by flinging crap about Libya and Iran and Syria but all in non-specifics. The fact remains that Romney can't name, even when pressed, any actions he would do differently, because there is nothing to be done differently.
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The positions Obama was talking about are the ones Romney held before the debate, all of the cowboy bluster we used to get from the Bush administration which Romney was also engaging in before this debate. He changed many of his positions on a dime, some of which were changed from one debate to the next such as setting a timeframe for withdrawal from Afghanistan. These are the 1980s foreign policy positions Obama is referring to.
 
polyh3dron said:
The positions Obama was talking about are the ones Romney held before the debate, all of the cowboy bluster we used to get from the Bush administration which Romney was also engaging in before this debate. He changed many of his positions on a dime, some of which were changed from one debate to the next. These are the 1980s foreign policy positions Obama is referring to.
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Posturing and rhetoric is not policy. That is the only thing Romney has been doing. Which is sad, I know.

Saying you won't apologize for America is meaningless. Saying you want to stand by Israel without a gap or whatever is meaningless. Saying you would have called Libya a terrorist attack .263 hours before Obama did is irrelevant. It's all crap. There is no real and drastic concrete policy differences.

And the Afghanistan point you edited in is incorrect anyways. http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/23/politics/fact-check/index.html
 
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