The Abominable Snowman
Member
Modern day GPUs can do complex math much faster than modern CPUs. Kind of like how power users usually use their second, older nvidia card for PhysX processing.
Why would you say that?
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Modern day GPUs can do complex math much faster than modern CPUs. Kind of like how power users usually use their second, older nvidia card for PhysX processing.
Why would you say that?
Because it's a waste of silicon and just all around stupid.
Did everyone just skip this post? Why is Sony going to go with the 7000 series when the 8000 series will be almost a year old by Q3 2012?
Proelite
Member
Alpha kits for this year. 7900 to approximate whatever smaller / cooler 8800 derivative.
So proelite (for some reason your name reminds me laxatives ;P) you reckon we'd see a dedicated GPU allied to this APU afterall?
Any truth to the gargantuan 16 GB of RAM? Are we looking at a real world 8-12 GB of RAM? How much allocated to system resources versus games?
Proelite
Member
For the alpha kit, definitely yes.
Proelite
Member
No clue. 8-16 gig could mean anything from 4-12 in the final unit.
Realistically and I mentioned this before: I assume that larger RAM dev kit might be running slower RAM (what MS is running with their XB3 alpha kits), DDR3. Also, real world amount may be between 6 and 8GB (not 12GB for upper limit).
dragonelite
Member
Dont know.
I think you want the fast kind of ram in the consoles.
in consoles speed < size so im not sure why they would cheap out on the devkits.
Hazelhurst
Member
There's no way it'll be an SSD for obvious cost reasons. It would be cool if the PS4 allows for hard drive upgrades using any off the shelf 2.5" hard drive a la PS3. Then we could put an SSD in it.
Not only (as others have pointed out) does XDR3 not exist, using fast RAM like that for an OS is a huge waste.
Well, the reason why PCs can play virtually every game at super high res/frame rate is because most games are built for 7 yr old hardware.
When new consoles hits with modern tech and developers started optimizing for those consoles, you will not see the performance you are seeing on your PC with those games for few years.
Of course, unless you decided to put $1000+ on videocard and CPU, then yeah.
Cold.
Getting Warmer.
Getting Warmer.
HOT!
Everything from both companies points to 8gb in the retail machine. I'll eat my damn hat if we end up with less than that.
Melfice7
Member
I hope its a sombrero.
We'll be lucky to get 4GB..
And people keep making the mistake of comparing consoles to PC's, good luck trying to run something like Uncharted 3, Killzone 3, GT5 on a PC with a damned 7800gt and 512 ram, its obviously not comparable an open system to a closed one
You are thinking in a very conventional sense. The components that are suggested are cheap, and if we were to have a A10 + 8 GB GDDR 3 + 8850- we would have 3.0 TF, shit tons of RAM, and an awesome APU To back it up.
They haven't mentioned a discrete GPU. This either means that there isn't a discrete GPU, or that they just haven't mentioned it and/or don't know about it.
Regarding the APU, it is said that it's based off of the A10--not the A10 itself (like how Wii U's GPU is based off of R700, but not R700 itself). We may see a custom A10 derivative that has a much better GPU than the current 7660D (though I admit, I don't know how much of a better GPU they can fit into an APU). If this proves true, then I can see why there was no mention of a discrete GPU.
Also, about the byte topic: I'm sure they mean MB/GB.
Regarding the APU, it is said that it's based off of the A10--not the A10 itself (like how Wii U's GPU is based off of R700, but not R700 itself). We may see a custom A10 derivative that has a much better GPU than the current 7660D (though I admit, I don't know how much of a better GPU they can fit into an APU). If this proves true, then I can see why there was no mention of a discrete GPU.
Also, about the byte topic: I'm sure they mean MB/GB.
More like, 4 - 8 gigs, dev kits have mostly double the RAM for debugging.
Sony does not have to satiate dedicated ps3 "fans" or tech enthusiasts. There's barely any of them and their custom is worthless as this gen proved.
They do not have to copy or match Microsoft, they have a far richer gaming history. Attempting to make a Halo killer this gen left them with a bunch of mediocre, generic shooters that only the aforementioned "fans" seemed to care about. Attmpting to match Microsoft's tech left them with a 600 dollar failure that still couldn't match the 360 when it came to multiplats (i. e 90% of games).
Abandon the handheld market, make something affordable, make something unique, make something desirable. It isn't the 90's anymore. The playstation brand isn't worth much.
I really hope they can make a strong successful console this gen. If not then we will see many more closures in line with psygnosis, zipper and lightbox.
They do not have to copy or match Microsoft, they have a far richer gaming history. Attempting to make a Halo killer this gen left them with a bunch of mediocre, generic shooters that only the aforementioned "fans" seemed to care about. Attmpting to match Microsoft's tech left them with a 600 dollar failure that still couldn't match the 360 when it came to multiplats (i. e 90% of games).
Abandon the handheld market, make something affordable, make something unique, make something desirable. It isn't the 90's anymore. The playstation brand isn't worth much.
I really hope they can make a strong successful console this gen. If not then we will see many more closures in line with psygnosis, zipper and lightbox.
Proelite
Member
I've heard Sony is trying everything it can to have the better multiplats next time around.
Similar here.
DreadPirateRoberts
Member
Gigabits would fit really well with it having just an APU, but it don't think either of those are actually the case.
Well they need a better development environment. Because from what people say MS destroys them in this regard and Nintendo is also better.
That means it would need total output of 120fps, 60fps per eye. Rumor may be or may not be worded correctly.
Sony and MS are both using APU's with HSA. They will be very similar in architecture. The main difference will be in who has more grunt. Everyone going all AMD is probably the best thing to happen to devs.
I assume he was talking about the IDE here. Very few will be coding bare metal.
BR is confirmed.
YianGaruga
Banned
I believe 8GB RAM would be overkill right now, but it's the only way to make the machine truly future proof, so I hope they go with that.
That really depends on whether there are 1 or 2 memory pools. If the latter, then pairing an APU with a GPU makes perfect sense. Another reason why it may make sense even without that, when going for a high-end system, is to distribute production failures over 2 smaller chips instead of a single large one.
Anyway, I don't see APU-only performance (even that of a customized APU) being in any way acceptable in 2013.
It won't be overkill. RAM is the number one thing requested by developer's. It makes everything better. Coding becomes easier, framerates improve, and AA becomes cheaper to implement. Both MS and Sony must be thinking of things like 4XMSAA, 1080p, and exclusive games to show off their hardware.
Honestly, I would be an OS similar to 360's current, with it's footprint, and the rest of the resources can be allocated to games.
The worst thing that could happen to the industry is a lukewarm reception to these new devices. Power needs to be there, but most importantly, it should be accessible. Watch Japanese dev's flourish with it.
IrishNinja
Member
sounds pretty interesting, ill wait for more solid info though
custom soundtracks is the real question man!
time to upgrade your PC derrick
nautrally; apple fans are used to being gouged....but are they used to buttons
this, all day. i hope that patent we saw for some big dongle thing turns out to be a BC workaround if nothing else
this is an awful post, hate seeing this crap said every time BC is discussed as a valid concern for a number of consumers
ah, right - i forget you're not a good poster, carry on then
holy shit, you really expect that much though? i mean, i'd love to see it but if they cant launch without a SKU at $400 or less, they fucked up hard.
custom soundtracks is the real question man!
time to upgrade your PC derrick
nautrally; apple fans are used to being gouged....but are they used to buttons
this, all day. i hope that patent we saw for some big dongle thing turns out to be a BC workaround if nothing else
this is an awful post, hate seeing this crap said every time BC is discussed as a valid concern for a number of consumers
ah, right - i forget you're not a good poster, carry on then
holy shit, you really expect that much though? i mean, i'd love to see it but if they cant launch without a SKU at $400 or less, they fucked up hard.
I still don't buy it. I also have a hard time buying that there'll be two ~250mm²+ chips. The system is supposed to be more affordable than the PS3 when it came out after all. A single sub 300mm² APU (A10 plus some eDRAM, basically) seems more plausible.
YianGaruga
Banned
I have 8GB in my PC and I hardly ever use 50% of it. 4GB is plenty for current videogames. I'd expect the console OS to have a smaller footprint then Win7 as well, buy maybe that's wrong.
99% of games today are designed around PS360 in mind. Don't compare your PC with next-gen hardware. People made this same mistake before the launch of our current gen. The more RAM you have, the happier developer's will be. It makes their life easier, and let's them code "dirtier".
There is so much more than can be done it's not even funny. Here's hoping neither Sony or MS dismiss the important of RAM because some forum member on GAF's PC uses only 2 GB of RAM.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
He's just being honest. It's time folks started to realise that BC isn't happening for PS4. Get over it.
Truth. People are suggesting PS4 will be more powerful than the Next Box, and that's enough for me.
DreadPirateRoberts
Member
That's probably because most games are still coded for 32bit, so they can't use more RAM than that.
YianGaruga
Banned
Isn't that exactly what the new consoles will be though?
Are we expecting the launch games of "next-gen" to be above and beyond what a current high end PC can do? I find that hard to believe.
Are we talking about a shared memory pool of 8GB here, or will there be extra VRAM?
You have a point, didn't think of that.
The next generation APU Kaveri will push something closer to 1 TFLOPS, so that should give us a minimum level. I don't know if AMD can make a special edition with more radeon cores. I thinkr AMD needs to tackle the bandwith issue before increasing the amount of radeon cores.
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...s-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html
It's totally plausible to build, but I don't see it providing a performance level that will get people excited.
I see more effects/polygons and (much) worse IQ.
Games are not built around anything else but a 7800 GT with 512 mb of RAM.
IrishNinja
Member
based on...? appreciate your needlessly condescending garbage follow-up to his post, but that doesn't change my priorities as a consumer.
I built a library i'd like to enjoy on the next iteration of said console. if they can't even manage that (before we even look at the trouble that'd pose for PSN purchases), i can wait until said disappointment is met with a cheaper console and more enough games to justify a purchase. killing BC isn't something i like rewarding with a launch purchase.
damn...you're pretty confident, eh? the bolded bit is what troubles me: feel free to quote me in a few years if it sells gangbusters, but you're simply not going to get the kind've userbase sony wants at that launch price. they've got an uphill battle after this gen, and that's not good footing to start from at all.
I'd put serious money on it. 8gb total in the retail box with 2gb reserved for OS and applications/accessories and 6gb for games.
$400 sounds very optimistic. Honestly, I'll be willing to pay (Based on the final specs and launch games) closer to US$500 even with the random 20% price increase we get in Australia over other countries.
I started saving last month and even though I'm pretty broke at the moment by the end of next year I'll have more than enough spare cash to star the next generation.
I could totally see that with a 8850. We would be looking at 3 Teraflops.
Your priorities as a customer don't change reality. An AMD APU will not run games built for Cell.
A 1.8tflop APU, even?
Or is such an APU unlikely to be manufacturable enough by late 2013?
If they can get their perf target within an APU, they'll go with that IMO. If they can't they'll go discrete. I'd feel fairly safe in thinking any ps4's config, be it single die or two die, will be in a different performance class than A10 skus in the desktop space today, though.