exmachina64
Banned
Damn, I'm Canadian at heart. New life goal: Become a Canadian citizen.
vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Damn, I'm Canadian at heart. New life goal: Become a Canadian citizen.
pieatorium
Member
he was talking about now not the future
and it will be good
many more smaller indie studios will raise the overall quality of games
I heard something that AMD had a lot more engineers on MS' console than they did on Sony's. Take that as you will. There is nothing even remotely close to the shift that was unified shaders, so maybe we're just talking something in regards to BC, or something like adding some pieces of DX 11.5 (or whatever equivalent) to the GPU, since DX12 is such a long ways out.
I've gone on record saying that (traditional) gaming will contract for a variety of reasons this upcoming generation. One of them is runaway budgets and studio closures and such.
I've got some news for you: many of these smaller studios exist and are trying out other gaming models currently (not traditional consoles). Frankly, without the budgets that "AAA" releases get, I doubt too many of them make much of a splash.
I think it was sweetvar who reported that.
One explanation, asides from GPU, might be the integration of a non-AMD CPU into an APU. It would make it maybe one of the first 'mix and match' APUs AMD has worked on? They've talked a lot about the planned modularity of their APU designs, such that it is relatively easily to mix in third party silicon etc. etc. Maybe Durango's is one of their early implementations/a testbed for making that kind of design happen.
I don't mind, but do we really need next gen then?
Indies will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of next-gen hardware IMO. Assuming, of course, the business platform around that hardware makes sense for them.
what happened to him? he doesn't post anymore?
He erased himself off the internet.
So he died? Poor guy
No he's still around. Just not on the internet under sweetvar.
Someone at AMD probably didn't like his posts...
Brad Grenz
Member
Yeah, in the context of a rumor where the original Durango design had some huge problems and AMD had to fast track a redesign effort, while the Sony silicon had already come back fine and seemed to be smooth sailing.
AMD announce GCN 2.0 graphics! But dont get too excited just yet
more http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/17/amd-announce-gcn-2-0-graphics-but-dont-get-too-excited-just-yet/
more http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/17/amd-announce-gcn-2-0-graphics-but-dont-get-too-excited-just-yet/
jeff_rigby
Banned
Memory is a funny thing; I remember parts of it because it fit with a pet theory of mine. Sweetvar26 said Thebe was scheduled to be first and was delayed 6 months and is now on time. His friend was transferred to the Kryptos project and AMD is concentrating on it and it's going to be much more and I get fuzzy here.
The pet theory is that Thebe is hidden inside Kryptos as the core of next generation. What could be "more" in Kryptos I haven't tried to speculate.
If Thebe is a moon of Jupiter (orbis) then it's tied to a Solar system planet. Thebe could be the APU core of both consoles with a second Mobile 8000M GPU and the APU+GPU for the PS4 is called Orbis. For Microsoft or Sony the unannounced 2013 Solar system GPUs could be coming @ 20nm the middle of 2013 and could account for a delay for either.
It's possible that the PS4 is Thebe (APU only) and 2 Tflop or if APU + GPU 2Tflop plus any mobile 8000M GPU that Sony chose.
Kryptos (APU + GPU) more than 2 but less than 4 unless second GPU is @ 20nm then about 5 Tflop max.
You can parse the above and agree that Sony will not want the Xbox 3 to be 100% more powerful than the PS4 and Microsoft won't want a PS4 that is about half the price of a Xbox3. There are rumors of Venus for the Xbox3 and if they go by Size then I'd expect nothing less than a Mars for the PS4.
so you also believe MS will have more powerful console?
Like I said before the problem I have with this theory is that Sony is under most pressure to make big update when it comes to SPECs. Otherwise how are you going to sell PS4 to mass market if they can't really tell difference between TLOU vs TLOU2, U3 vs U4, GOWA vs GOW4, etc. I mean look at Beyond and TLOU. But is my theory. Of course that doesn't guarantee much.
On the other hand rumor that nextbox is much stronger (and more epxensive?) and it will have Kinect 2 bundeled? MS doesn't mind losing 200-300usd per unit? I doubt it.
phosphor112
Banned
I remember coming across some research that said console space was better for indie devs since mobile game market is way to saturated.
Only time will tell. Sony has the biggest potential to make money primarily based on:
- First party releases
- Free online is the best solution for F2P games
So if they can't compete with MS on hardware side and provide the dev what they require, then they'll soon become irrelevant as (if the prices are similar) they will lose ground faster than what happened with them and PS3. Also, as you mentioned, I think that as much as MS wants to dominate the home entertainment space, they want a pyrrhic victory.
No wonder why i put jeff on the ignore list...
Anyway, if the next XBOX ends up being significantly more powerful than Sony's machine, i suspect Sony will do a Nintendo-like communication, meaning zero talk on spec and presenting videos running of dev kits (or pretending to run on dev kits).
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Just wanted to thank aegies for the bits of info. Any little crumb is gold for us graphics horses. Your handful of posts these past weeks/months are the best info we've had in a long time. MS and Sony must have some serious lockdowns going on.
phosphor112
Banned
He didn't say that. The other poster inferred it from what he read.
systemfehler
Member
I don't want to complain but his sources seem a bit strange. Assuming they are either AMD engeineers or third party developers why wouldn't those people never hear anything about the PS4? Either Sony is feared among those people when it comes to leaks or the sources don't know because they don't know first hand. Again I don't want to be nitpicking but I would really love to know how someone in this industry can know some/a lot about a MS console but "hearing" nothing about the PS4 unless of course the person works directly on the 720 as a part of the AMD 720 team.
lol that's exactly what I'm saying. Maybe some nipple piercings with little number "3" to announce Crackdown 3 too =p
@Kage,
No problem. I admit I bounced a couple things off of him that I had seen you post in the past. Much of it he either couldn't answer or wouldn't, but it gave us some talking points. Or what I like to call nod and smile points
Well that's a shame =p
I'm sure we'll be finding out a lot more in the coming months.
Even if the PS4 was noticeably weaker than the nextbox (doubtful to happen), we'll still see a large difference between TLOU 1 vs TLOU 2, U3 vs U4, etc. I know some like to say these games show next gen graphics now, but that's all hyperbole and it's easy to believe U4 or TLOU2 will look much better than what we're seeing on the ps4 now.
These major investments in specs really are worthless in the end anyways. This is why I've been saying that any gap in performance that may present itself between the ps4 and 720 won't really be worth worrying about. To the average consumer, all the games will look equally as good next gen and they won't notice if one version has higher quality motion blur or better filtering. They don't notice those things now when we see the slight advantages in ports for the PS360. I know sony-gaf would have a meltdown if the specs were released and the PS4 was weaker than the nextbox by ~500GFLOPs (for example) but it makes no sense for either MS or Sony to break the bank and spend billions when the difference in performance is unlikely to be seen on screen.
At least IMO.
True but his possibility shows a bias toward XB3 possessing better hardware.
Thing is though, Aegies did mention that the gap between XB3 and PS4 will be about the same as PS3 and XB360. Given that PS3 received poor ports (almost always) in comparison to 360, that doesn't inspire much confidence.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
He works for the Polygon site.
Edit:
There are a few possibilities why he would hear more about the xbox than the PS4. Sony's tools for the PS4 can be behind MS' for the 720, Sony may be slower in getting early kits out there (IIRC MS likes to send out kits early compared to other companies), the projects may be leading on the 720 with the assumption that they can port to the PS4 at a later time, maybe some of the devs he's talked to are working on 720 exclusive projects, or maybe Sony just has better ninjas and people aren't talking about the PS4 out of fear for their lives. =p
I think Aegies meant that there really won't be a difference in power, but instead each system having relative strengths and weaknesses compared to the competition, like we see with the PS360.
The PS3 didn't receieve poor ports most of the time, it all comes down to how well the hardware handles the work load. I'd say the ps3 has held up just fine over the last few years. Now a days we're pretty close to parity, with each version having small advantages, with superior ports showing up here and there on both platforms.
There are a few possibilities why he would hear more about the xbox than the PS4. Sony's tools for the PS4 can be behind MS' for the 720, Sony may be slower in getting early kits out there (IIRC MS likes to send out kits early compared to other companies), the projects may be leading on the 720 with the assumption that they can port to the PS4 at a later time, maybe some of the devs he's talked to are working on 720 exclusive projects, or maybe Sony just has better ninjas and people aren't talking about the PS4 out of fear for their lives. =p
I think Aegies meant that there really won't be a difference in power, but instead each system having relative strengths and weaknesses compared to the competition, like we see with the PS360.
The PS3 didn't receieve poor ports most of the time, it all comes down to how well the hardware handles the work load. I'd say the ps3 has held up just fine over the last few years. Now a days we're pretty close to parity, with each version having small advantages, with superior ports showing up here and there on both platforms.
Gotta agree with systenfehler, it kind of came off as strange that the guy had nothing.....nothing at all bout ps4, not even slight rumors of specs but knew MS entire playbook including specs.I mean nothing despite the fact they are both amd produced? Idk it was just a little...interesting.
I've been looking back on a lot of old rumors in this thread and the other and a funny pattern emerges, nearly every time a more detailed and credible rumor hits one console jumps ahead in power. It's defin't mind this since I want very similar systems.nitely too early to make any kind of real conclusions but I think I have a
theory, someone is supplying both MS and Sony with a pretty good idea of what the other is doing. The back and forth in developers' expectations is almost too coincidental to be anything else. Personally I would like this to be true since I want closely performing consoles but it could also just be the points they're at in development, which is more likely too be the case.
tinfoil hat time
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Maybe the dev he talked to isn't working on a PS4 game. I'm sure the huge companies all have the dev kits.
Maybe his source works for MS and has no idea what is going over at Sony, don't see how that is far fetched?
Unless he said what his source was, which I doubt he has done or is going to do.
NDA'd projects can be NDA'd even internally. People would probably be a lot less likely to spill the beans directly to someone else at AMD for fear of losing their jobs.
bigtroyjon
Member
His sources are 3rd party developers and publishers he's talked to off the record.
hmm from what I can remember no one ever "rumored or hinted" that PS4 will be more powerful. There was that leak from MS where it said that nextbox will be x6 over 360 but same leak never mentioned how more powerful PS4 is going to be.
Or maybe I am missing something?
There were several rumors that quoted devs talking about the next Xbox where they said they expected more power out of the PS4.
IIRC there have actually been rumors indicating that both were more powerful than the other at some point with people here cherry picking which rumor they choose to believe.
I don't really think this was ever the case.
systemfehler
Member
Of course that could be the case - if a engineer currently works on the 720 AMD certainly has NDAs, safety measures, etc. to insure that 720 and PS4 team don't know anything about the other. However wouldn't that mean that he knows a person directly working on the 720 - which should lead to more information/leaks than a few tidibits?
If the source is a "small" Xbox Live developer chances are that they don't know much about the PS4 but aegies posts didn't sound like his sources don't know because of something like that but rather there is nothing to tell because Sony is late, undecided, etc.
So either he doesn't know anything about the PS4 because his source can't know anything (MS related, AMD 720 engineer, ...) and we don't have to worry about Sony but any other statement sounds strange. I guess most "bigger" developers know what to expect in 2013 from both Sony and MS.
Yep, this is why I've averaged them out and expect both to be the same/very similar. The truth is somewhere in between and this way everyone is happy.
EDIT: looking back on my past few posts I've said some dumb stuff and mistyped some stuff from last night. I'm very tired right now. I need to go to bed.
Karak
Member
When the 360 was being made there was an IMB team contact that was giving data back and forth to the MS team. Pretty much admitted in the XBOX360's creation book that came out a couple years ago. Also the interconnect team was terrible at personal security, document tracking, and discussion privacy at all junctions. It is possible that is occurring now but instead of 1 way, that data is flowing across to both sides.
However there is a huge caveat to that. Depending on the severity of the difference one or the other company may not just jump and get system parity if the cost is too much. It is a fact that the system specs change a good deal of times before they are finalized so there is indeed a chess game that goes on.
However, for all intents and purposes it doesn't seem like that is actually what is occurring. It seems more likely that tool sets are not equal between the two. Which makes sense as MS rumors about sets were out far before Sony. So the rumors, to me, seem to be based more around the tool-sets than any actual inside knowledge of the final hardware. This also seems to fit with the info I was getting from my family member who works at MS that there is a big misconception about the MS system. Possibly due to toolsets being all that people are going on and with each revision, there is an adjustment to the goalposts.\
Agreed.
Looking back on the rumors posted, as well as the article postings you can get from Beyond 3d and ones here. This doesn't seem to be the the case.
Perhaps, much like the RAM amount modification rumour for PS4, MS has rectified that situation. Maybe now it leads PS4 in power.
I should clarified it as whenever there is a poor port involved, it's almost always is on the PS3.
In recent months, AC3 and FC3 are two examples where 360 version is arguably better than PS3 couter parts. The only game which was worse on 360 was FF13. That's it iirc. Like I said between that and the comment about Sony's alleged lack of communication with third parties, the signs are very reminiscent of what Nintendo did with WiiU and I am not sure that even they were allegedly as bad at external communication as Sony.
I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring this to as a recent point of reference, just an illustration of how rumors have changed of over time. It's from way back.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Yeah how was that far-fetched at all? Nothing weird about his source only knowing solid info on Durango.
Yea, that's exactly what I am saying as well. The question is which rumours deserve an iota of credence? Also, before E3 is around I am pretty sure more perception changing rumours will surface.
phosphor112
Banned
It'll probably have more inside, but that won't necessarily translate to direct power to the software.
Wait, how does that work o_0?
yeah...
Never said it was far fetched just wondered if it was someone in tech that knew what both were up to. The source is probably someone working closer to MS.
gaming_noob
Member
Can't believe it's almost exactly 1 full year since that article. I still remember this one very clearly.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
The fact is MS has more money to spend and can afford to take a MUCH MUCH larger hit on 1-3 year hardware sales....... that's probably the primary reason why the rumors of the 720 being more powerful are more "believable"