VGLeaks: Details multiple devkits evolution of Orbis
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
FlyingTeacup
Member
No, I haven't been told either way.
Quite true.
I was talking with someone in the hardware industry and he said it's definitely possible. We'll see though.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Exactly! Someone who finally understands. $599 is chump change if Rift is included.
Did he explain any general approach to how they would go about simulating six 3.2 GHz floating point processors with eight 1.6 GHz integer processors and a DX11 GPU while also handling RSX emulation and not having it run terribly?
Do you really believe it will sell for that price? If the base box costs $400 then I can see it $699 (700).
Or at least something like Rift - But I guess PS4 isn't powerful enough to give you FullHD 3D + 120FPS while maintaining the visual jump to next gen. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
He didn't really go into detail, but I could ask again about it.
Clay Davis
Member
you're absolutely right, didn't really think of that. I guess we'll just have to hope for the best.
sony did have bc this gen, even if it was phased out quickly, they did at least support it so I remain optimistic that orbis will have bc in all models, but would take a premium approach over no bc at all.
Need a 6-core SPURS at least. With a CPU nearby emulating the PPU. Sounds too powerful but it would be interesting for autopilot physics, camera, media decoder, compression and security work. I don't know what the vector engines in the new CPU are used for. 8^D
Bank on it: Sony will totally side step the idea of comprehensive local BC on one device by painting cloud services as the logical last step for compatibility across both devices and generations of software. They'll say 'enjoy your Playstation any time any where' and that this is 'next-gen' while compatibility tied to one box is 'last gen' 
Just ignore the relatively limited legacy catalog selection in the first couple of years...
Just ignore the relatively limited legacy catalog selection in the first couple of years...
Bank on it: Sony will totally side step the idea of comprehensive local BC on one device by painting cloud services as the logical last step for compatibility across both devices and generations of software. They'll say 'enjoy your Playstation any time any where' and that this is 'next-gen' while compatibility tied to one box is 'last gen'
Just ignore the relatively limited legacy catalog selection in the first couple of years...
Yeah if the solution is to just run it off of cloud servers then there's no hardware problem.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
It costs $300 on it's own. Surely the bundle will cost cheaper. Regardless, I don't want to pay extra for BC. If it's software-based, then good. If it requires hardware then no thanks.
You only get access to PS3 BC when you send in your PS3 first. It will then be put into the datacenter and serves as your personal BC cloud.
Not entirely true.
First gen PS3's had the EE+GSX.
Second gen PS3's still had the EE because it was impossible to emulate.
the rift is going to be $299? Man i just expected it to be more, especially with their revisions they mentioned.
McHuj
Member
The flops are there for the compute. I think the bigger issue is emulating the memory system of the Cell, mainly the localstores of the SPEs. You can't really do it with a typical cache as it will be to small and the behavior not deterministic.
why not give people the option if its possible. I mean if you don't use it, then what would it matter to you if the system has BC or not.
if the consumer version would have the same specs as the devkit, yeh, possible but it wont. It will propably set you back 500 dollars
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
It shouldn't be anymore expensive than a devkit. Nothing ever is.
EDIT:
Wait really? When did they state that?
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
I wonder if a game's categorisation within the PS Store might be giving some hints as to how the transition to PS4 will be handled? I noticed in the new store that when you click in to a game to buy it says what format it is, sometimes they say PSN and sometimes they say PS3.
Normally I would have just put this down to the fact that if a game also came out as a retail disc on PS3 then it was listed as PS3, however there have been cases where a game is listed as both PS3 and PSN (I can't remember which).
What if all those games tagged as PSN have been tested on Orbis and will be playable, but those tagged just PS3 will not? That way when people complain, Sony can point to the fact that those games clearly only promised PS3 compatibility.
Alternatively it could just be some licensing quirk or just some kid that populates the store makes it up when he adds stuff.
Normally I would have just put this down to the fact that if a game also came out as a retail disc on PS3 then it was listed as PS3, however there have been cases where a game is listed as both PS3 and PSN (I can't remember which).
What if all those games tagged as PSN have been tested on Orbis and will be playable, but those tagged just PS3 will not? That way when people complain, Sony can point to the fact that those games clearly only promised PS3 compatibility.
Alternatively it could just be some licensing quirk or just some kid that populates the store makes it up when he adds stuff.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The devkit is $300. They have said that the retail version could cost more.
It's nicer to have one unit that does everything instead of multiple boxes.
The only local solution I can see at all is the same I've been saying from the start: have a Cell (or at least 6 SPEs) in there. And even that doesn't make it easy, and I don't think they want to spend on it.
What you really want then is a PC. Looking at these consoles, I guess even MS and Sony figured that out
That would stand true in general but they are trying to developers on board and so are not looking to make profit on those units.
Will the HDD sizes alone separate the multiple versions then?
The only local solution I can see at all is the same I've been saying from the start: have a Cell (or at least 6 SPEs) in there. And even that doesn't make it easy, and I don't think they want to spend on it.
What you really want then is a PC. Looking at these consoles, I guess even MS and Sony figured that out
Except even on PC older backwards compatibility is becoming more and more limited
Specially talking about titles from the 90s that have never been updated to run on newer Windows, etc.The multi SKU approach has always been terrible, imo. Just causes more consumer confusion.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Graphics Horse
Member
It could be one quirk of a very quirky store.
You'd think some of Sony's biggest titles would be PSN games if that was the case, not just Demon's Souls.
I'd say it was just down to price, but I see Far Cry 3 there as a PSN game too.
just imagining adding CELL to this set up,
-you'd need an extra bus
-assuming it uses the same memory pool here, memory controller is going to get rather complicated.
-or adding another separate memory pool
it's clear it's not happening, but they did pretty much above for PS2 BC in launch PS3. all the R&D went into these and had to cut all of it very soon, wasteful. not happening.
-you'd need an extra bus
-assuming it uses the same memory pool here, memory controller is going to get rather complicated.
-or adding another separate memory pool
it's clear it's not happening, but they did pretty much above for PS2 BC in launch PS3. all the R&D went into these and had to cut all of it very soon, wasteful. not happening.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
We expecting any info today?
somuchwater
Member
In what way is the PS3's library any more substantial than other consoles? We've never really had any hard data on to what extent BC is a selling point of new consoles. I think it's important to a very small percentage of consumers and isn't worth the cost.
Thank your sir.
Clay Davis
Member
Bank on it: Sony will totally side step the idea of comprehensive local BC on one device by painting cloud services as the logical last step for compatibility across both devices and generations of software. They'll say 'enjoy your Playstation any time any where' and that this is 'next-gen' while compatibility tied to one box is 'last gen'
Just ignore the relatively limited legacy catalog selection in the first couple of years...
god no. I'd much rather have a hardware solution.
How'd you come to that assumption?
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
No. There should be some news at the end of the month though.
I don't think you can get 8GB GDDR5 at the moment? But if you mean switch to 4GB GDDR5, if their system really is OS heavy (i.e requiring 1-3gb ram for OS functions), then it becomes a very expensive change that doesn't leave much over for gaming. Alternatively they could use DDR3 and GDDR5, but I'd imagine that'd also be costly and more complex.
phosphor112
Banned
indeed. the loss of studio liverpool still hurts. wipeout just won't be the same again.
It'll forever hurt.
It would be better overall. As I explained before, I think others have mentioned something similar, but using a "cell alternative" to run BC could also be used for sound processing, helping the GPU out, and doing different media functions without having to call the overly powerful discrete GPU to help out.
No one knows what that "Gpu-like compute module" is.
Cell is very "gpu-like"... you know.. it IS a stream processor.
The GPU can emulate RSX.
The Cell can be emulated with this.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100312969.pdf
Patented by Sony themselves. It highly resembles Toshiba's "SpursEngine" but instead of having dedicated memory like the SpursEngine does, it uses shared memory.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out, on page 6 of the patent, it demonstrates two of these chips being hooked together, which would be able to fully emulate the Cell.
indeed. the loss of studio liverpool still hurts. wipeout just won't be the same again.
Hmm...lol.
phosphor112
Banned
Don't toy with my emotions.
You wont have a hardware solution. Basically you would need to put a full PS3 (meaning CELL+RSX and their memory respectively) alonside PS4's APU...