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[gun_haver]

Episode 6 was Sansa's rape. By far the worst received episode in the show's history.

Man, yeah. I really didn't like that at the time - in fact I think I didn't watch the rest of the season until quite a bit later, when I had kind of forgotten it happened and how much it annoyed me. I'm not a person who applies morality to what should and shouldn't be shown very often, but that event, for reasons I can't remember right now, really was over the line to me in terms of exploitation and just...I dunno, nihilism.

They're lucky that they pretty much deflected that hit and went on to continue to grow their success, because I remember a lot of shit storming around about that at the time.

 

[Sean C]

Firstly, the idea of posting on a forum about how some show sucks because you dislike it is counter-productive for several reasons, not least because it makes you sound pretentious and self-absorbed.

How is that any more counter-productive than saying a show is good because you like it?

People use "the writing sucks" as shorthand. There are numerous, far more detailed critiques of GOT's inconsistent characterization, awful plotting, and contradictory thematic material out there.

 

[Creamium]

No doubt that is the case. However, in the hypothetical scenario where Martin wanted a surprise double release, he'd totally just lie about it beforehand. Lying hurts no one in that situation.

At this point I'll be happy if we ever get Winter. Then it's gonna be half a miracle if we ever get aDoS (if it can wrapped in 7 books in the first place:/)

 

[superdeluxe]

As long as the fan service/fan favourites ending happens, I think most will be happy.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I'd like an unexpected ending to the series but we'll get a predicatable generic one instead. They'll beat the

Spoiler

Night King. Dany and Aegon will sit on the iron throne together. Cersei will kill herself. Sansa becomes Queen of the North. Arya will be her Hand. Bran will go off somewhere.

We know for a fact that won't happen because GRRM said the show will end on a bittersweet note. You can your bottom dollar that one of the top characters will die.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

He's employing flagrant hyperbole because he cannot find his point. There have been various posts detailing criticisms in the last few pages alone, but he cares not to read them because he knows that views = quality. It's a Youtube fact.

Hey hey hey. Don't forget rotten tomatoes scores of a television season

 

[Sean C]

We know for a fact that won't happen because GRRM said the show will end on a bittersweet note. You can your bottom dollar that one of the top characters will die.

While one cannot rule anything out, GRRM has specifically talked about LOTR as the sort of bittersweet ending he admires, and none of the top characters died at the end of that.

 

[J2 Cool]

Here is the episode by episode reception this season:

EDIT: This was season 6

So more unsatisfied viewers this season, which matches the general WOM, but still not terrible by any stretch of the imagination.


EDIT: And the Bad Pussy Season, because why not?

Episode 6 was Sansa's rape. By far the worst received episode in the show's history.

Still, the issue is the season led up to a forced, illogical climax north of the wall. That no one really thought was great storytelling, just spectacle. And then we get a slight recovery in the finale.

I don't know what other GoT season had built to such a disappointing climax. Season 5's weaker, but eh.

There's also a sense that this season felt really disjointed. Only 7 episodes, but there's not one cohesive story being told. It's Jon traveling to Dany for a couple episodes. It's Lannisters vs Daenerys in battle. Then it's travel North of the wall. Then its a big reunion.

So it has a really zig zag momentum to it. Where as the other seasons I felt always led somewhere, and escalated. With season 1 (especially) and 4 being the best examples.

 

[Qvoth]

i didn't like season 6, so it already did disappoint
s7 was good though

 

[iamblades]

The most watched episode ever, the season finale, is carried by scenes of dialogue between major characters.There might be 10 whole minutes of stylish action out of the 80 minute runtime. What the hell are you talking about?

Those scenes of dialogue were just as fanservicey as the dragon melting the wall though, most of them had literally no reason to exist and didn't really push the plot forward at all.

But I watch FOR the characterization. For the character moments. Their interactions. And you're really exaggerating how "bad" it's been. The huge action set pieces are a plus on top of everything the show does right.

You can argue that it's generally well written, even considering its obvious flaws. You've just removed that option because you don't agree and that's ridiculous

Equating the difference between McDonalds and prime rib to pre and post the last three seasons is the very definition of hyperbole man. And one is arguable, one is not.

Character 'moments' =/= characterization.

Characterization is the why behind what the character's are doing, the character's internal logic and motivations.

None of the characters have consistent believable motivations anymore, they are just puppets on the strings of the show runners being pulled back and forth as is required. Doesn't matter what the character would do in a situation, all that matters is what the writers need the character to do.


Except you really can't. Especially after this season's monumentally stupid 'zombie kidnap' and 'fake out sibling rivalry' plots. The writers have turned every character in the show into complete idiots(even the ones that are supposed to be competent, hell even the ones that have fucking superpowers) in order to force meaningless drama that doesn't even end up accomplishing anything half the time.

 

[kswiston]

^Cersei has been pretty consistent

 

[Surfinn]

Those scenes of dialogue were just as fanservicey as the dragon melting the wall though, most of them had literally no reason to exist and didn't really push the plot forward at all.




Character 'moments' =/= characterization.

Characterization is the why behind what the character's are doing, the character's internal logic and motivations.

None of the characters have consistent believable motivations anymore, they are just puppets on the strings of the show runners being pulled back and forth as is required. Doesn't matter what the character would do in a situation, all that matters is what the writers need the character to do.


Except you really can't. Especially after this season's monumentally stupid 'zombie kidnap' and 'fake out sibling rivalry' plots. The writers have turned every character in the show into complete idiots(even the ones that are supposed to be competent, hell even the ones that have fucking superpowers) in order to force meaningless drama that doesn't even end up accomplishing anything half the time.

Right like Jaime and Cersei. Terrible characterization. Embarrassing moment for GoT. And John/Danny. Horrible, they absolutely needed their interactions to happen to move the plot forward. Inconceivable for them to get along or have a connection. They make no sense together, whatsoever.

So glad you're here to provide these valuable criticisms.

 

[Sean C]

Right like Jaime and Cersei. Terrible characterization. Embarrassing moment for GoT. And John/Danny. Horrible, they absolutely needed their interactions to happen to move the plot forward. Inconceivable for them to get along or have a connection. They make no sense together, whatsoever.

Yeah, Cersei and Jaime's relationship has been very badly handled on the show. The moment where Cersei incinerated hundreds of innocent people with wildfire, which even the actor playing Jaime expected would be Jaime's personal redline, and he still hung around as her lapdog for another season, is just about the worst.

There's no reason Jon and Dany couldn't work as a couple. But the writing for them this season was the epitome of telling rather than showing. They'd barely had two scenes together before Davos and Tyrion were both telling us how Jon was looking at her lovingly all the time, something we'd never actually seen.

 

[hateradio]

Ollie comes back from the dead and wins the race for the crown.

 

[17 Seconds]

everything disappoints everyone always

 

[Surfinn]

Yeah, Cersei and Jaime's relationship has been very badly handled on the show. The moment where Cersei incinerated hundreds of innocent people with wildfire, which even the actor playing Jaime expected would be Jaime's personal redline, and he still hung around as her lapdog for another season, is just about the worst.

There's no reason Jon and Dany couldn't work as a couple. But the writing for them this season was the epitome of telling rather than showing. They'd barely had two scenes together before Davos and Tyrion were both telling us how Jon was looking at her lovingly all the time, something we'd never actually seen.

He loves her and knows she's mad with power. It's always been a struggle for him personally, especially in the last two seasons. I don't think their relationship has been "very badly handled". Consider where Jaime came from. He willingly sent a boy to his death so him and Cersei could be together. It's not inconceivable that he could still be torn between loving her and accepting that she's moving in a direction he cannot follow.

Oh please. They showed a ton of Jon and Danny developing. It wasn't just people telling the audience that they were happening. They had a lot of awesome scenes exhibiting their chemistry. It's just that it's not a very cool thing to like it.

 

[Hindl]

While one cannot rule anything out, GRRM has specifically talked about LOTR as the sort of bittersweet ending he admires, and none of the top characters died at the end of that.

I mean, Frodo and gandalf did

 

[Sean C]

It's not inconceivable that he could still be torn between loving her and accepting that she's moving in a direction he cannot follow.

Using wildfire to kill civilians is the thing that previously drove Jaime to finally break his vows and murder his monarch. The lack of reaction to Cersei actually doing that is absurd.

Oh please. They showed a ton of Jon and Danny developing. It wasn't just people telling the audience that they were happening. They had a lot of awesome scenes exhibiting their chemistry. It's just that it's not a very cool thing to like it.

Oh, please. I have no problem with romance in general, or this romance in particular, in principle. Kit and Emilia do have decent chemistry in some scenes; but the whole plotline was rushed along at a pace that never allowed it to breathe. If the writers were confident enough, they wouldn't need to have characters blatantly tell the audience that Jon and Dany are falling in love.

 

[CloudWolf]

Oh please. They showed a ton of Jon and Danny developing. It wasn't just people telling the audience that they were happening. They had a lot of awesome scenes exhibiting their chemistry. It's just that it's not a very cool thing to like it.

Tyrion literally had to tell Dany and the audience that Jon Snow fell in love with her. Jon and Dany's relationship wasn't fleshed out at all. Hell, I thought their chemistry was very forced. The only scene that showed a little chemistry was that scene in the cave, after which they immediately moved.to staring longingly in each other's eyes.

 

[Surfinn]

Using wildfire to kill civilians is the thing that previously drove Jaime to finally break his vows and murder his monarch. The lack of reaction to Cersei actually doing that is absurd.


Oh, please. I have no problem with romance in general, or this romance in particular, in principle. Kit and Emilia do have decent chemistry in some scenes; but the whole plotline was rushed along at a pace that never allowed it to breathe. If the writers were confident enough, they wouldn't need to have characters blatantly tell the audience that Jon and Dany are falling in love.

I can understand this criticism. Some people felt like it was too rushed and that the writers felt compelled to inform the audience that they're falling in love. I never felt like this was the case, however. Because their scenes felt natural and satisfactory, to me anyway. Yes, they told us on occasion that they're probably going to fall in love. But I didn't have an issue with this because it seemed to me that we already knew this through their interactions. I actually enjoyed the playfulness involved with the other characters. But I can understand if it didn't work for others.

Tyrion literally had to tell Dany and the audience that Jon Snow fell in love with her. Jon and Dany's relationship wasn't fleshed out at all. Hell, I thought their chemistry was very forced. The only scene that showed a little chemistry was that scene in the cave, after which they immediately moved.to staring longingly in each other's eyes.

This is understandable criticism. However, I never felt like their scenes and chemistry were forced. I thoroughly enjoyed their interactions this season.

Like I said. To each their own. But I won't discount this perspective. It's no hyperbole and consists of valid criticism, even if I don't agree.

 

[andythinkpad]

With Dany's plot, you never can tell if it is bad writing issue or bad acting issue.

 

[JonCha]

Enjoying it still but definitely not on the hype train as much as I was. Honestly, for me, they should have just wrapped it up in season 7 and had more episode. Maybe a mid-season break or something rather than waiting for another season.

 

[Ocarina_117]

Yo. Can we please not call Jon Aegon from now on.

Rhaegar may have been his farther, but he weren't his daddy.

His name is Jon Snow, he's a bastard.

 

[TatteredHat]

Out of all the seasons so far, this one felt the most like it was written as fanbase wish fulfillment, combined with the really poorly handled pacing (especially in episode 6) I would still put it down as one of the worst seasons. The writing just didn't hold up well and it feels like they knew this and covered it up with flashy spectacle.

 

[Ocarina_117]

Yo this thread gives a good reason for keeping book readers and show only threads again next season.

Edit - my hot take on the article. The ending will be as fanservicey and appeasing to the masses as possible. The bittersweet ending will come from the books, we may have the odd GRRM moment sprinkled in. It will largely be distinct from GRRM's characterisations and themes, as the show has been this season.

The nature of the titular prophecy has been greatly altered in the show, itself.

We'll get a massive war with the white walkers who are a force of undeniable evil. The war with the others may not happen in the book in which they've been shown to have characterisations of their own and potentially a driving motive. Then We'll get the war with Cersei, who I strongly doubt will ever sit the iron throne in the books.

 

[dabig2]

Out of all the seasons so far, this one felt the most like it was written as fanbase wish fulfillment, combined with the really poorly handled pacing (especially in episode 6) I would still put it down as one of the worst seasons. The writing just didn't hold up well and it feels like they knew this and covered it up with flashy spectacle.

This is where I'm at. I liked the loot train attack for the spectacle, but really nothing outside of that. The plot, the characters, and the situations that evolved from the plot and characters just wasn't satisfying to me, to say the least. Everything in Winterfell sucked. And the war skirmish between the 2 queens was quite the letdown, with only the 15 minute loot train desperation sequence saving that entire plot thread from being a total let down, like what went on in Winterfell this entire season. And the less said about that dumb ass episode 6 North expedition, the better. And of course the "romance" between Jon and Dany. Have to be fucking with me in considering that good tv. If you want something close to my thoughts on that, give a read on this Verge article on it. https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/21/16179238/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-daenerys-romance-weak-season-7-beyond-the-wall.

People might freak out at this statement but honestly, GoT is now on the same level as True Blood and LOST before both of those show's miserable last seasons; so the last season still has a chance to impress and I'm semi optimistic. The show is still a little fun and it keeps me a little entertained and I still like some of the characters and the memes the show creators straight up acknowledge, but at this moment the show has turned more into a guilty pleasure I watch when I'm drunk and/or high, instead of something I genuinely enjoy.

 

[Artdayne]

Tyrion literally had to tell Dany and the audience that Jon Snow fell in love with her. Jon and Dany's relationship wasn't fleshed out at all. Hell, I thought their chemistry was very forced. The only scene that showed a little chemistry was that scene in the cave, after which they immediately moved.to staring longingly in each other's eyes.

I disagree about Jon and Dany. There were many different hints throughout the season that Jon and Dany were starting to have feelings for each other. Yes, they dumb it down for the audience just as they have to hammer it in fans heads that Rhaegar Targaryen is Jon Snow's father.

 

[Monocle]

My "films you like that everybody hated" thread was pretty good, I thought. There was plenty of advocacy of unpopular films, not a lot of carping.

I'll give that thread a look, thanks.

In a way, I can see how both the Game of Thrones anti-fandom and the championing of certain films both feed a need in gaffers to demonstrate their real or fancied superior intelligence and discernment. I assume we're mostly well out of our teens, but there's something endearingly teen-like about many NeoGAF comments.

This rings true.

I've only been a member of NeoGAF for three years or so, but having said that I see no sign of a great decline in quality. I think this is just part of who we are as a community.

I wish it were otherwise. I understand that strongly expressing an opinion can satisfy people's need to feel smart or correct, or even just heard. But I can't get behind the kind of post that starts with a hyperbolic comment along the lines of "this is shit, this is garbage, this is the worst movie I've seen this year" and then proceeds to pour steaming bile all over every aspect of the movie at a hysterical pitch that brooks no argument and leaves no room to discuss the positives and negatives in a way that leads to worthwhile insights.

Saying things like "Mad Max: Fury Road is a boring and badly made movie" is an anti-post. It frames a reductive opinion as a plainly evident critique without taking on the burden of building and supporting a position which is, after all, based on nothing besides that person's feelings. Not their knowledge of the film medium or storytelling techniques. Their bad feels.

It's tedious clutter that sabotages real discussion, which depends on the exchange of knowledge, substantial ideas, and informed impressions.

 

[Surfinn]

I'll give that thread a look, thanks.



This rings true.


I wish it were otherwise. I understand that strongly expressing an opinion can satisfy people's need to feel smart or correct, or even just heard. But I can't get behind the kind of post that starts with a hyperbolic comment along the lines of "this is shit, this is garbage, this is the worst movie I've seen this year" and then proceeds to pour steaming bile all over every aspect of the movie at a hysterical pitch that brooks no argument and leaves no room to discuss the positives and negatives in a way that leads to worthwhile insights.

Saying things like "Mad Max: Fury Road is a boring and badly made movie" is an anti-post. It frames a reductive opinion as a plainly evident critique without taking on the burden of building and supporting a position which is, after all, based on nothing besides that person's feelings. Not their knowledge of the film medium or storytelling techniques. Their bad feels.

It's tedious clutter that sabotages real discussion, which depends on the exchange of knowledge, substantial ideas, and informed impressions.

Thank you for this post. I hope everybody posting crazy hyperbole gets a chance to read it

 

[TheOctodad]

I'll give that thread a look, thanks.



This rings true.


I wish it were otherwise. I understand that strongly expressing an opinion can satisfy people's need to feel smart or correct, or even just heard. But I can't get behind the kind of post that starts with a hyperbolic comment along the lines of "this is shit, this is garbage, this is the worst movie I've seen this year" and then proceeds to pour steaming bile all over every aspect of the movie at a hysterical pitch that brooks no argument and leaves no room to discuss the positives and negatives in a way that leads to worthwhile insights.

Saying things like "Mad Max: Fury Road is a boring and badly made movie" is an anti-post. It frames a reductive opinion as a plainly evident critique without taking on the burden of building and supporting a position which is, after all, based on nothing besides that person's feelings. Not their knowledge of the film medium or storytelling techniques. Their bad feels.

It's tedious clutter that sabotages real discussion, which depends on the exchange of knowledge, substantial ideas, and informed impressions.

This is well worded and describes my exact opinions.