Tobimacoss
Member
You aren't being clear, Which windows version? One with Epic, Steam, or Xbox backend?
WC/Jez: Microsoft's ambitious new Xbox: Your entire Xbox console library, the full power of Windows PC gaming, and no multiplayer paywall
- Thread starter RetroGamingUK
- Start date
bitbydeath
Member
Think Rog Ally X.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
According to Jez since there's a full fat Windows 11 operating system on Xbox Magnus, why aren't we discussing how much of the BOM will the cost to have Windows 11 in there be? Isn't it around $50-$70 or so dollars?
I'm starting to agree with
HeisenbergFX4
that $1,500 may be the minimum for this machine the more I think about Jez's article.
I'm starting to agree with
HeisenbergFX4
that $1,500 may be the minimum for this machine the more I think about Jez's article.
ZehDon
Member
Since Microsoft own it, it wouldn't add to their own BOM unless they elect to. Iirc, they don't include the stripped down Windows in the Series consoles BOM, for example. For OEMs, they can include the license with the Magnus chip license if they're feeling generous.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But why would MS steal from one department within the company that has more profit, to help the Xbox department that's struggling in the profit side of things?
It makes sense to not charge for the stripped down version, since you can't use Adobe Photoshop or MS Office on it. But on Xbox Magnus you will be ablw to (according to Jez).
DavidGzz
Member
It would be dumb for MS to include Steam with no pay to pay online but still require pay to play online with the Xbox store. Who would buy the Xbox version of games if they did that? I mean, it will already be lopsided but even more so if one requires a sub and the other doesn't.
Come On Tars
Member
If it's subsidized and powerful enough to tempt me as a pc builder they might have come up with something.
Tobimacoss
Member
OK, so atleast we have a starting point of discussion unlike that other guy with his weird wrapper.
So you agree, Xbox PC games will still be built using the GDK, correct? Using the Xbox backend for multiplayer, Cloud saves, achievements etc.
Btw, an Xbox SDK for Windows SDK doesn't exist. There is only the GDK, GDKX extensions for windows based, and Xbox Live SDK extension for the Android GDK and iOS SDK.
Steam/Epic games are built using the Windows SDK, alongside a secondary Store SDK for their respective store backends, aka Epic Online Services and Steamworks. There's no such thing for the Xbox Live backend in conjuction with the Windows SDK, it doesn't exist. Probably used to, long ago for GFWL. But they went straight from WinRT/UWP to GDK for PC, and from XDK to GDKX on consoles.
Another thing is, MS will NEVER release unpackaged games on MS Store, for the Xbox ecosystem and especially Gamepass PC Catalog. They are always MSIXVC packaged and those packages are signed and notarized for Windows OS. Otherwise it would be too easy to pirate and run gamepass games on Linux, like what happens with stuff on Battle.net.
GitHub - microsoft/GDK: Microsoft Public GDK
Microsoft Public GDK. Contribute to microsoft/GDK development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
Anyways, the GDK is updated twice a year. Any changes to MS game development would be posted there.
https://github.com/microsoft/GDK/releases/tag/April-2025-Update-3-v2504.3.4084
Game Development Kit (GDK) documentation - Microsoft Game Development Kit
Instruction on using the Game Development Kit (GDK)
learn.microsoft.com
There is the PC and Handheld Game Development documentation, and there is the Console game development documentation.
PC and Handheld Xbox PC games are together because those games are designed to scale to various hardware. GDK games scale to hundreds of configurations. Console game dev requires the GDKX, in order to optimize those same GDK created games to fixed spec hardware. You don't release fixed spec hardware unless you intend to optimize games for it. That's the entire point of the AMD partnership.
Otherwise MS could simply release any PC hardware with high end Nvidia hardware at various tiers. There will be Xbox Consoles, and there will be Xbox PCs, two separate form factors with differentiation. That differentiation is optimized games AND controller based input designed for the large screen TV experience with multimedia functionality.
Yes, there WILL be Convergence but you can't simply call the Console a PC because there will still be Console SKUs of games. A Console SKU is simply the GDKX optimized version of a GDK created Xbox PC game to whichever fixed spec hardware. EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar all already create GDK SKUs of their console games, they simply don't release them on PC for strategic reasons aka Money.
So PC, Laptops, Handhelds require GDK SKUs, and Consoles, Cloud requires optimized GDKX versions. There is no either or, if a dev wants to create for the Xbox ecosystem, they have to do the GDKX build.
What MS is trying to do with the portfolio of devices using AMD chips like Magnus is two things. Convergence means completing, bringing together the two form factors without destroying either.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
news.xbox.com
They want to bring Windows SDK games from third party PC stores to Consoles. AND they want to bring GDKX optimized (aka Console) games to Xbox PCs that run on Magnus. That means Magnus will have Forwards Compatibility with whatever the Console is running. No additional work for devs, but the devs still create GDKX optimized versions that could run on Xbox Consoles, Xbox Cloud, Xbox PCs.
Come On Tars
Member
That's my initial thought. But I mostly play on my computer and I just buy whoever has the best deal, prefer steam since it's the biggest library. Who knows maybe they will have to compete on sales prices and that would be cool.
Maybe there will be some sort of cleaner install benifits of buying off the xbox app. I sure hope they have a playnite situation where all games are in one spot
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
PC games generally require special hooks for installation specific to the store, and in general there are other features which call the API's of said store. Like for stuff like cloud saves, but other small things too.
The main code is just the PC version of the game, but small changes are made to the build for a given store.
So the Windows Store (aka Xbox Store) on PC is something developers have to support specifically vs the Steam store version of a game. Developers haven't bothered most of the time despite the Windows/XBox Store being on every Windows PC on earth. Really not entirely sure you understood my post or something.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The Xbox Series Generation will be known for their: "Don't buy our hardware" advertising.
The Xbox Magnus Generation will be known for their: "Don't buy software on our store" advertising.
It makes no sense to me.
SneakersSO
Member
Nothing I said in my post actually contradicts what he put out in his puff piece. The machine is meant to run all pre-existing XboxOS titles via BC, but there won't be a native XboxOS SKU for this hardware platform, because its a PC - its native builds will be the PC/Windows builds from the Xbox on PC store running in hopefully by then significantly improved FSE, like the Rog Ally line does right now.
Yup - this is exactly what its going to be.
Still in flux from what I recently heard.
There actually is a number of differences, at least this generation, but you're correct that devs could still do machine-specific optimizations aimed towards this machine itself, if they felt it was worthwhile to do so.
This thing is gonna be far too niche and expensive for it to take off in any meaningful way if it releases as is.
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NickFire
Member
There has to be a catch. I'm not against the idea of console and pc hybrids at all. Sounds very interesting. But I can't see them wanting to be stuck dealing with even customer service for machines with low margins (for them) that are used for steam on tv only.
My guess is GPU to go outside the walled garden. Or at least PC GP. They don't care about short money on single hardware purchases is my guess.
SneakersSO
Member
Oh right - not to be nitpicky, but hes incorrect. The Xbox on PC store does not run a Win32 executable. If it were that simple, every single PC game on Steam would release on the Xbox on PC store, but they don't. It is a separate build.
Its mostly semantics anyway, and he probably had no idea then when he made that original article on how MS was planning on building out the FSE for Win11, and that being the OS direction for the next console.
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Yeah, at 1000$, even though its not mainstream theres value to be had for a decent amount of semi-enthusiast gamers. That being said the price estimates have been climbing up and where 1000$ was considered absolute peak but now its gone from 1000 to 1200 to maybe even 1500. Once you cross 1000$ you start getting into territories where you miss alot of the target consumers and enter into the land where the consumers will just buy higher end pc hardware.
bitbydeath
Member
No Xbox GDK.OK, so atleast we have a starting point of discussion unlike that other guy with his weird wrapper.
So you agree, Xbox PC games will still be built using the GDK, correct? Using the Xbox backend for multiplayer, Cloud saves, achievements etc.
Btw, an Xbox SDK for Windows SDK doesn't exist. There is only the GDK, GDKX extensions for windows based, and Xbox Live SDK extension for the Android GDK and iOS SDK.
Steam/Epic games are built using the Windows SDK, alongside a secondary Store SDK for their respective store backends, aka Epic Online Services and Steamworks. There's no such thing for the Xbox Live backend in conjuction with the Windows SDK, it doesn't exist. Probably used to, long ago for GFWL. But they went straight from WinRT/UWP to GDK for PC, and from XDK to GDKX on consoles.
Another thing is, MS will NEVER release unpackaged games on MS Store, for the Xbox ecosystem and especially Gamepass PC Catalog. They are always MSIXVC packaged and those packages are signed and notarized for Windows OS. Otherwise it would be too easy to pirate and run gamepass games on Linux, like what happens with stuff on Battle.net.
GitHub - microsoft/GDK: Microsoft Public GDK
Microsoft Public GDK. Contribute to microsoft/GDK development by creating an account on GitHub.
Anyways, the GDK is updated twice a year. Any changes to MS game development would be posted there.
https://github.com/microsoft/GDK/releases/tag/April-2025-Update-3-v2504.3.4084
Game Development Kit (GDK) documentation - Microsoft Game Development Kit
Instruction on using the Game Development Kit (GDK)learn.microsoft.com
There is the PC and Handheld Game Development documentation, and there is the Console game development documentation.
PC and Handheld Xbox PC games are together because those games are designed to scale to various hardware. GDK games scale to hundreds of configurations. Console game dev requires the GDKX, in order to optimize those same GDK created games to fixed spec hardware. You don't release fixed spec hardware unless you intend to optimize games for it. That's the entire point of the AMD partnership.
Otherwise MS could simply release any PC hardware with high end Nvidia hardware at various tiers. There will be Xbox Consoles, and there will be Xbox PCs, two separate form factors with differentiation. That differentiation is optimized games AND controller based input designed for the large screen TV experience with multimedia functionality.
Yes, there WILL be Convergence but you can't simply call the Console a PC because there will still be Console SKUs of games. A Console SKU is simply the GDKX optimized version of a GDK created Xbox PC game to whichever fixed spec hardware. EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar all already create GDK SKUs of their console games, they simply don't release them on PC for strategic reasons aka Money.
So PC, Laptops, Handhelds require GDK SKUs, and Consoles, Cloud requires optimized GDKX versions. There is no either or, if a dev wants to create for the Xbox ecosystem, they have to do the GDKX build.
What MS is trying to do with the portfolio of devices using AMD chips like Magnus is two things. Convergence means completing, bringing together the two form factors without destroying either.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
They want to bring Windows SDK games from third party PC stores to Consoles. AND they want to bring GDKX optimized (aka Console) games to Xbox PCs that run on Magnus. That means Magnus will have Forwards Compatibility with whatever the Console is running. No additional work for devs, but the devs still create GDKX optimized versions that could run on Xbox Consoles, Xbox Cloud, Xbox PCs.
Just Windows SDK.
Xbox GDK will become redundant as building for both will be a waste of time/money/resources.
Windows SDK games will work on Magnus.
viveks86
Member
So how are they pulling off BC on a Windows machine? Any insights on the technical and/or licensing aspects of it? I'm guessing only this first party "console" gets it and not any other OEM PC?
Topher
Identifies as young
lol....no he doesn't. He has been wrong plenty of times. Most notably dismissing all the leaks about games being ported to PS.
Did you read that article you linked? It says the leak came from The Verge. Why are you crediting Jez with reporting what someone else found?
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Topher
Identifies as young
Team Andromeda
Member
I can't work JEZ out one day he's all against Xbox and the next day they're the best thing ever and the vision of the future...
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And yet it fail to see how directionless this strategy is ultimately.
Topher
Identifies as young
If they name it XWANK......day one!
ZehDon
Member
Corporate Accounting. But like I said, Microsoft doesn't include the license costs in the Ssries console currently. So, I doubt they'll include it in the new console.
Topher
Identifies as young
And what does any of that matter?
Topher
Identifies as young
In the article he says it is everything that is currently available on Xbox Series through backward compatibility.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
It's called "The check cleared."
bitbydeath
Member
The not wasting time/money/resources on each game part or something else?
From Microsoft or everything from all Third Party? See what I mean?
Topher
Identifies as young
Sounds like everything, first and third party, to me my man
"This means all the OG Xbox back-compatible games, all the Xbox 360 back-compatible games, all the Xbox One back-compatible games, and all the current and future Xbox Series X|S games. These games will run natively on the new Xbox and launch seamlessly via the Xbox launcher's library."
Now whether true is another thing entirely
Topher
Identifies as young
No, that makes sense, but I don't get why any of this dev kit stuff is even being brought up here. He's done this before in other threads and it really just seems like parroting the same buzzwords over and over again.
bitbydeath
Member
Probably not wanting to assimilate with the PC crowd.
nani17
are in a big trouble
To be honest, I haven't bought an Xbox console since the 360. For me, the writing was starting to be on the wall toward the tail end of the 360 era with all the Kinect stuff.
Most people would say Don Mattrick and the Xbox One announcement were the start of it, but for me, like I said, the tail end of the 360 era was not good, and it felt like they didn't know where they were going. They still relied on Halo and Gears, but they also expected this new Kinect device to be some sort of a system seller. However, I personally felt the core Xbox gamer was more of a "hardcore gamer"; I never really cared about this new technology.
Then we had what was, for me, the nail in the coffin as a gamer: Don Mattrick's ever so famous "TV TV TV" and the always online, can't share you games system announcement. This sole announcement, combined with the end of the 360 era, made me not interested at all in what Microsoft was shipping.
Now, as a collector, I may buy one of these consoles one day, but right now it's not a major thing. As for the new system, it's very similar to the rest of what I've discussed: no interest at the moment unless they absolutely blow it out of the water, but looking at how they're doing, I'm not expecting much right now.
Most people would say Don Mattrick and the Xbox One announcement were the start of it, but for me, like I said, the tail end of the 360 era was not good, and it felt like they didn't know where they were going. They still relied on Halo and Gears, but they also expected this new Kinect device to be some sort of a system seller. However, I personally felt the core Xbox gamer was more of a "hardcore gamer"; I never really cared about this new technology.
Then we had what was, for me, the nail in the coffin as a gamer: Don Mattrick's ever so famous "TV TV TV" and the always online, can't share you games system announcement. This sole announcement, combined with the end of the 360 era, made me not interested at all in what Microsoft was shipping.
Now, as a collector, I may buy one of these consoles one day, but right now it's not a major thing. As for the new system, it's very similar to the rest of what I've discussed: no interest at the moment unless they absolutely blow it out of the water, but looking at how they're doing, I'm not expecting much right now.
RCX
Member
Extra silicon for BC? This thing is going to be incredibly expensive.
But that's not the point I guess? Who cares if anyone can actually afford it. It's there for MS as a final off-ramp for legacy customers so they can get out of hardware and avoid the bad PR that comes with leaving millions of customers libraries stranded.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: fuck this company and its entire leadership
But that's not the point I guess? Who cares if anyone can actually afford it. It's there for MS as a final off-ramp for legacy customers so they can get out of hardware and avoid the bad PR that comes with leaving millions of customers libraries stranded.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: fuck this company and its entire leadership
foamdino
Member
Er will this "console" have a blu-ray drive? How are all the people that built up a physical library of license coasters going to access back compat. I know that MS has been pushing all digital for a lot of this gen, but it does look like people who invested in "physical" (not really as MS don't put the game on the disc anymore) are likely to be screwed.
Orbital2060
Member
Thats awesome as I was thinking about that exact scenario; to be able to switch over to the "PC side" for World of Warcraft.
That would be pretty much all I need in one piece of hardware, all my Xbox games plus WoW.
edit Wait, as long as you can install mods that is.
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Ar¢tos
Member
It will sell less than 3 million if it's just a pc with bc for Xbox console games.
People that want bc can buy a used console (I suspect those that want it already own one anyway), people that want pc gaming, if they are willing to spend 1200-1500$, they can build a pc with much better specs by adding another 200$ to their budget.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
OK, so atleast we have a starting point of discussion unlike that other guy with his weird wrapper.
So you agree, Xbox PC games will still be built using the GDK, correct? Using the Xbox backend for multiplayer, Cloud saves, achievements etc.
Btw, an Xbox SDK for Windows SDK doesn't exist. There is only the GDK, GDKX extensions for windows based, and Xbox Live SDK extension for the Android GDK and iOS SDK.
Steam/Epic games are built using the Windows SDK, alongside a secondary Store SDK for their respective store backends, aka Epic Online Services and Steamworks. There's no such thing for the Xbox Live backend in conjuction with the Windows SDK, it doesn't exist. Probably used to, long ago for GFWL. But they went straight from WinRT/UWP to GDK for PC, and from XDK to GDKX on consoles.
Another thing is, MS will NEVER release unpackaged games on MS Store, for the Xbox ecosystem and especially Gamepass PC Catalog. They are always MSIXVC packaged and those packages are signed and notarized for Windows OS. Otherwise it would be too easy to pirate and run gamepass games on Linux, like what happens with stuff on Battle.net.
GitHub - microsoft/GDK: Microsoft Public GDK
Microsoft Public GDK. Contribute to microsoft/GDK development by creating an account on GitHub.
Anyways, the GDK is updated twice a year. Any changes to MS game development would be posted there.
https://github.com/microsoft/GDK/releases/tag/April-2025-Update-3-v2504.3.4084
Game Development Kit (GDK) documentation - Microsoft Game Development Kit
Instruction on using the Game Development Kit (GDK)learn.microsoft.com
There is the PC and Handheld Game Development documentation, and there is the Console game development documentation.
PC and Handheld Xbox PC games are together because those games are designed to scale to various hardware. GDK games scale to hundreds of configurations. Console game dev requires the GDKX, in order to optimize those same GDK created games to fixed spec hardware. You don't release fixed spec hardware unless you intend to optimize games for it. That's the entire point of the AMD partnership.
Otherwise MS could simply release any PC hardware with high end Nvidia hardware at various tiers. There will be Xbox Consoles, and there will be Xbox PCs, two separate form factors with differentiation. That differentiation is optimized games AND controller based input designed for the large screen TV experience with multimedia functionality.
Yes, there WILL be Convergence but you can't simply call the Console a PC because there will still be Console SKUs of games. A Console SKU is simply the GDKX optimized version of a GDK created Xbox PC game to whichever fixed spec hardware. EA, Ubisoft, Rockstar all already create GDK SKUs of their console games, they simply don't release them on PC for strategic reasons aka Money.
So PC, Laptops, Handhelds require GDK SKUs, and Consoles, Cloud requires optimized GDKX versions. There is no either or, if a dev wants to create for the Xbox ecosystem, they have to do the GDKX build.
What MS is trying to do with the portfolio of devices using AMD chips like Magnus is two things. Convergence means completing, bringing together the two form factors without destroying either.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
They want to bring Windows SDK games from third party PC stores to Consoles. AND they want to bring GDKX optimized (aka Console) games to Xbox PCs that run on Magnus. That means Magnus will have Forwards Compatibility with whatever the Console is running. No additional work for devs, but the devs still create GDKX optimized versions that could run on Xbox Consoles, Xbox Cloud, Xbox PCs.
Something tells me you know your stuff, and you are onto something.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So, basically this box will not have what we have traditionally known as Xbox versions of games it will literally just be the PC Xbox store version.
That's going to go down well with average consumers that have 0 knowledge of pc and their settings lol.
GHG
Member
You are limiting yourself from getting the best deal you can from key resellers. What can Steam possibly offer that you would intentionally lock yourself out of that? I've used Steam OS on my Lenovo. You navigate it with a controller like this Windows Full Screen Experience. Wasn't some life changing gaming revelation.
I think I'll gladly continue "limiting" myself if the only option is a Windows store key for certain games.
Also, I don't know who you're trying to kid by saying windows full screen experience is in par with SteamOS, but you do you.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Rockstar will definitely release a series x/s edition. It's millions of potential sales.
Edit: or however many consoles there are - I evidently picked a number that was higher than estimated.
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Ar¢tos
Member
40... In Spencer's dreams!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I will say. If it plays the Xbox version of GTA vi when a pc version doesn't exist. It is not JUST a mini pc. It's a console hybrid. Which sounds like it could be amazing if I had any faith the current Xbox team could actually pull it off.