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[Topher]

I will admit when talking to people they would always talk about the console and the Xbox PCs as being 2 separate entities and even when Xbox and AMD made their video they talked about consoles and PCs

I guess their PR speak even in private circles was just a PC all along and yes I know people here have repeated that for a long time that all signs pointed that way

Just talking to people privately and the talk coming from people like Jez doesn't line up but I guess I will admit defeat on this one, maybe

Time will tell bro. I'm still not doubting you. I wouldn't be surprised if a closed console is still being tossed around with PC being the backup plan. S SneakersSO says things are still in flux so it sounds like things are not set in stone yet and K KeplerL2 has backed you up. MS has not publicly committed to any one course of action except that there will be first party hardware.

I think a PC makes more sense when we say "Xbox" that has other stores like Steam. Traditional console makes more sense when it comes to BC. So I got no clue

 

[Kacho]

Of course. I don't mean compatibility. This sounds like it will come bundled with it

I don't think it comes bundled with a m&k. I'd put money on it.

 

[twilo99]

Which is an Xbox......

I know, I am just saying this device brings up an interesting convo. I want to know more. I wasnt trying to do any form of "Gotcha" or whatever I was wanting to discuss what is it.

To confirm, if this runs windows with a skin on top like a rog all x I will see it as a mini PC with pre defined specs. I just hope they can get me a new X3D chip with that Xbox silicone in it so I can build my own PC that lets me play all my legacy Xbox content.

I call the Rog Ally a Handheld PC, as does everyone else and that is fixed specs. I was just wanting to have the convo.

If AMD puts out an x3d chip with built in Xbox BC layer that would be a big win for the PC build community…

Maybe one day

 

[viveks86]

I don't think it comes bundled with a m&k. I'd put money on it.

Would it come bundled with a controller at least? lol. I'm starting to wonder if they will just sell them all as accessories so you pick what you want

 

[Punished Miku]

Would it come bundled with a controller at least? lol. I'm starting to wonder if they will just sell them all as accessories so you pick what you want

Hopefully they finally roll out the updated controller with gyro.

 

[jm89]

Hypotheticals based on current reality. Go watch any UE5 digital foundry for this year. Xbox is handily performing better in current gen games than PS5. So, it is not a hypothetical that is out of the realm of possibility

The current reality is you'd have to be daft to be spending anything on the xbox ecosystem. So having a minimal advatange to buy from a dying platform is probably not in the best interest of your hypothetical enthusiast

I'd advise you hypothetical enthusiast to sell both and get a ps5 pro for gta6

 

[Sephimoth]

Over 10 years of Xbox "Just wait until.." continues...
Even after it's dead

 

[Kacho]

Would it come bundled with a controller at least? lol. I'm starting to wonder if they will just sell them all as accessories so you pick what you want

I would assume so. Whether it's technically a console or PC, the device will be marketed and packaged as a console.

 

[Topher]

Part of me thinks Jez got the BC part wrong entirely. I would not be surprised if Microsoft comes out and this thing is exactly like Rog Xbox Ally but in a console form factor and BC is achieved only via streaming. I hope not because then I'm back to "this isn't an Xbox" and we are going to have more folks confused thinking it can play games it can't play. Also, it becomes the most boring scenario possible. Native BC is a must have no matter what.

 

[Det]

copied it from somewhere else:

===

New marching orders are clearly in. They've seen the drop off in people investing in xbox by actually buying games so have told their mouthpieces that all games will definitely carry over to the next Xbox without xbox every having to confirm this so when it inevitably doesn't happen because publishers refuse to renegotiate the licenses Xbox will just deny they ever said it.
The exact same playbook as the rog ally, anybody still falling for this deserves what they get.

===

It is quite possible that the retro is the same as the x360 for the xbox one, with the aggravating factor of being another platform, the majority of publishers do not authorize this easily, as was the case with the xbox one retro.

 

[r.wayne]

Furthermore, thanks to new silicon from AMD (already approved all the way up to CFO Amy Hood and CEO Satya Nadella), the new Xbox will also run all games currently available on the Xbox Series X|S library..

This could mean anything. New silicon <that's powerful enough to emulate everything> from AMD. New silicon <that supports streaming, just like old silicon> from AMD.. Some BC chip doesn't make any sense to me, don't they already have fine software solutions.

 

[reinking]

People here will just talk shit about anything. Curated isn't a buzz word. It's a word in the English language that has existed for quite some time. It implies some slight system UI assistance, whether that turns out to be just the updated Windows, or the fact that they'll encourage publishers to use their preset system specs for optimization, or the Unreal Engine shader updates they talked about, who knows. Steam OS is highly curated as well. Consoles are curated. It just means they're shooting for PC, with a design similar to a console.

The last few times they had "buzz words" all turned out to be meaningful improvements.
- Quick Resume
- Smart Delivery
- Play Anywhere

..and people get defensive about anything. Tell me the last time you saw people referring to a windows experience as curated? They didn't really use that leading into the launch of the Xbox Ally. It started being heavily used after Sarah's interview. No biggie. No reason to be upset. I was just giving them credit that they are good at creating buzz words. People use them. It was a complement more than it was an attack.

 

[Kacho]

Native BC is a must have no matter what.

All their messaging and recruiting points to this. Phil was saying bringing your Xbox games with you to the new hardware is him "fulfilling his commitment." Could be a sleight of hand. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Technically, « reality » is what's real from a person's viewpoint

Next I'll be hearing Lizard people are real

 

[Punished Miku]

because publishers refuse to renegotiate the licenses Xbox will just deny they ever said it.

They seem to be negotiating the licenses more and more each day.

We're fairly convinced Baldur's Gate 3 is about to become an Xbox Play Anywhere game, which is ideal for the ROG Ally X

Baldur's Gate 3 may soon be an Xbox Play Anywhere title, according to a presumed premature advert spotted on the Xbox S…

www.eurogamer.net

I think they're having to pay out some of them. And that's fine. MS should just bite the bullet and pay. Epic is giving out free games to build up a library for people. MS can pay to keep 30 million people locked in. 99% of the games they add to GP are Play Anywhere, with publishers even going back and updating older ones that were already released as well.

 

[GHG]

Next I'll be hearing Lizard people are real

 

[Topher]

All their messaging and recruiting points to this. Phil was saying bringing your Xbox games with you to the new hardware is him "fulfilling his commitment." Could be a sleight of hand. We'll find out soon enough.

Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't think there would be a need to publicize that position as much if it were just another traditional console. The job posting kind of tells us where that is going.....

• You will partner with the Xbox Platform Core and Windows Core team to design a security solution to protect game assets from theft, tampering, and cheating.

 

[SSfox]

LOL

If you game on any PC online is free today, what are you waiting for?

This shit is hilarious

You can basically do the same things today if you want to....

But an Xbox sticker changes everything....

LOL

Were talking about console here, not PC, you're welcome

 

[Det]

They seem to be negotiating the licenses more and more each day.

We're fairly convinced Baldur's Gate 3 is about to become an Xbox Play Anywhere game, which is ideal for the ROG Ally X

Baldur's Gate 3 may soon be an Xbox Play Anywhere title, according to a presumed premature advert spotted on the Xbox S…

www.eurogamer.net

I think they're having to pay out some of them. And that's fine. MS should just bite the bullet and pay. Epic is giving out free games to build up a library for people. MS can pay to keep 30 million people locked in. 99% of the games they add to GP are Play Anywhere, with publishers even going back and updating older ones that were already released as well.

Exception that proves the rule
Play Anyware is from the Windows Store, so how long until it's the new Games of Windows Live?

 

[Det]

Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't think there would be a need to publicize that position as much if it were just another traditional console. The job posting kind of tells us where that is going.....

• You will partner with the Xbox Platform Core and Windows Core team to design a security solution to protect game assets from theft, tampering, and cheating.

Well, it's confirmed for me that there will be an emulator for the "retro" Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Xbox Series on the "Xbox PC."
Now let's see how this progresses... My bet is on the same Xbox 360 emulation on the Xbox One.

 

[Tobimacoss]

There's a long overlap here due to the upcoming cross-gen period following a late 2027 launch.

These next gen "Xbox" Windows machines will use Magnus SoC for both PC games and Xbox games.

The PC games will make full use of Magnus' capabilities, both high end current-gen and next-gen PC games running on Win32. This is the long term solution.

The Xbox games will make limited use of Magnus' capabilities, there will likely be about 3/4 years worth of new Xbox Series games (CoD, EAFC, Madden etc) that will continue to use XboxERA and will run on both these Windows machines and Series X/S.

Once they stop making Xbox Series games XboxERA dies and the Xbox console platform era comes to an end.

Is your source Jez or do you just make things up rather than official documentation?

GitHub - microsoft/GDK: Microsoft Public GDK

Microsoft Public GDK. Contribute to microsoft/GDK development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

"For developers building Xbox One games, Win32 + GDK is a direct replacement for the WinRT-based Exclusive Resource Application (ERA) app model using the XDK, introduced on Xbox One; Xbox 360 developers similarly migrated to ERA in 2013."

They haven't used ERA since 2020. ALL Series and Xbox ecosystem games are created by the GDK and optimized by the GDKX. That isn't changing.

 

[Madserb2023]

I like the sound of it. Who doesn't want a machine that can play everything. Xbox games, PC games, PlayStation games. No paying for online multiplayer. If they never have a PlayStation 6 version of a PlayStation 5 game, and you are stuck with poor performance, doesn't matter. Can just play it at better settings on the Xbox without an update. Problem is, this is called a PC. I feel like most people who want those things have a gaming PC. The question isn't whether people will buy it over the PlayStation 6, it's whether somebody will buy it instead of a standard pre build.

 

[viveks86]

Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't think there would be a need to publicize that position as much if it were just another traditional console. The job posting kind of tells us where that is going.....

• You will partner with the Xbox Platform Core and Windows Core team to design a security solution to protect game assets from theft, tampering, and cheating.

The question is, is that role meant to achieve the objectives within 2 years, or is that a longer term endeavor?

For now, regardless of how it is actually being achieved, I'm going to assume BC (running locally) is locked in as not one insider has suggested otherwise.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

are people going to start defending online pay walls on consoles so that they can hate on this?

I've been predicting this for a while. A console PC hybrid has the potential to be the best of both worlds. It's more feasible for them given they own windows.

 

[mckmas8808]

It makes perfect sense from a logic POV. "Don't buy our hardware and don't buy software on our store" equals "Don't (buy our hardware or buy software on our store)" - the latter form is a viable advertising strategy, they just forgot to remove the negation from the equation.

It's hard to imagine that the huge amounts of money Microsoft pays their marketing teams, that this could have been a simple mistake. They have to know what they are doing by now. Right?

 

[jm89]

are people going to start defending online pay walls on consoles so that they can hate on this?

Uhh what? Whose defending it? Online pay walls is the worst thing to happen on console and it's all thanks to the company whose now trying to allegedly remove it. You best believe this "kind" gesture wouldn't happen if they weren't in such a precarious and desperate situation.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Were talking about console here, not PC, you're welcome

No buddy,

We are talking about a fucking PC with an Xbox Sticker that can run old Xbox games

You are welcome

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Uhh what? Whose defending it? Online pay walls is the worst thing to happen on console and it's all thanks to the company whose now trying to allegedly remove it.

Huh? Are you arguing they forced Sony and Nintendo to adopt them?

Those companies are run by big boys who can make big boy decision on their own. I know people joke on this forum about Sony copying everything Microsoft does, but cmon dude

Also online pay walls have been defended many many times in the past on this very forum, people argue it prevents hackers

 

[jm89]

Huh? Are you arguing they forced Sony and Nintendo to adopt them?

Those companies are run by big boys who can make big boy decision on their own. I know people joke on this forum about Sony copying everything Microsoft does, but cmon dude

Also online pay walls have been defended many many times in the past on this very forum, people argue it prevents hackers

It's Microsoft who popularised it and their fanbase who accepted it and even defended it. They and there fanbase are absolutely to blame.

While it's true Sony and nintendo aren't forced to follow, but that's what happens when at the time one of the popular consoles(360) has made it acceptable to make money from online pay walls.

 

[Topher]

The question is, is that role meant to achieve the objectives within 2 years, or is that a longer term endeavor?

For now, regardless of how it is actually being achieved, I'm going to assume BC (running locally) is locked in as not one insider has suggested otherwise.

I think Jason Ronald advertising it is as much a hint of what is to come as anything else. But, to your point, it wouldn't be the first time Microsoft launched a product with key features arriving in the weeks/months after.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

It's Microsoft who popularised it and their fanbase who accepted it and even defended it. They and there fanbase are absolutely to blame.

While it's true Sony and nintendo aren't forced to follow, but that's what happens when at the time one of the popular consoles(360) has made it acceptable to make money from online pay walls.

The narrative that Microsoft has such a huge influence on the gaming landscape even now is hilarious. If your position is that this is a shitty thing to do and Sony is doing it, Sony is a shitty company. Trying to make it seem like Sony is somehow a victim and that Microsoft forced this upon them is fucking hilarious. Some of you need to get your head checked. Is Microsoft also responsible for Sony not making any first party games people want to play and infecting their shit with DEI?

 

[jm89]

The narrative that Microsoft has such a huge influence on the gaming landscape even now is hilarious. If your position is that this is a shitty thing to do and Sony is doing it, Sony is a shitty company. Trying to make it seem like Sony is somehow a victim and that Microsoft forced this upon them is fucking hilarious. Some of you need to get your head checked. Is Microsoft also responsible for Sony not making any first party games people want to play and infecting their shit with DEI?

Microsoft absoltuley had a influence in popularising online pay walls. Nothing hilarious about it, they had a very popular console and had advantages over playstation during that gen that allow them to introduce that shitty practice.

I didn't portray sony as a victim or that is was forced on them? What are you on about? Yes it's shitty sony followed.

 

[Punished Miku]

It's Microsoft who popularised it and their fanbase who accepted it and even defended it. They and there fanbase are absolutely to blame.

While it's true Sony and nintendo aren't forced to follow, but that's what happens when at the time one of the popular consoles(360) has made it acceptable to make money from online pay walls.

Yep, it sucked. And now they're probably abandoning that because it doesn't really fit into PC.

Sony popularized the $10 next gen upgrade. Sony started digital game subscriptions too. MS did smart delivery and patches for free. Nintendo is popularizing sub only BC right now. You can't even buy any games on Switch from previous gens, and they're pushing the upgrade fee for Switch 1 games. Sony started $70. Nintendo started $80 games. They all do it.

Lately, MS is doing less of this. They have a pretty good track record on patches, and BC right now.

 

[archangelmorph]

Interested to understand how far they will go with the BC on this.

Are they aiming to add a dedicated optical drive with the proprietary hardware support to decode XS X|S discs too?

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Microsoft absoltuley had a influence in popularising online pay walls. Nothing hilarious about it, they had a very popular console and had advantages over playstation during that gen that allow them to introduce that shitty practice.

I didn't portray sony as a victim or that is was forced on them? What are you on about? Yes it's shitty sony followed.

It seems by your definition anytime anyone does anything first, they forced it upon whoever else follow suit. If you truly don't think that mega corps charging for online play was inevitable, I don't know what to tell you dude

you originally said it's all thanks to Microsoft. Now you're saying Microsoft only had an influence. If this was all inevitable, it's not all thanks to MS. It's just that MS did it first

 

[jm89]

It seems by your definition anytime anyone does anything first, they forced it upon whoever else follow suit.

Never said they were forced, keep up.

If you truly don't think that mega corps charging for online play was inevitable, I don't know what to tell you dude

Sony never had free multiplayer from the beginning. No it wasn't inveitable until some company popularised it and the fanbase of that company defended it, opening up other companies to follow.

 

[Darsxx82]

Part of me thinks Jez got the BC part wrong entirely. I would not be surprised if Microsoft comes out and this thing is exactly like Rog Xbox Ally but in a console form factor and BC is achieved only via streaming. I hope not because then I'm back to "this isn't an Xbox" and we are going to have more folks confused thinking it can play games it can't play. Also, it becomes the most boring scenario possible. Native BC is a must have no matter what.

We've seen various statements from executives claiming a native BC and the creation of a team of engineers dedicated to game preservation; concrete job postings, and direct mention in the agreement with AMD with specific hardware in Magnus silicon for BC... (it's worth noting that all the leaks and insiders agree on this point).

Everything points to a native BC. Anything else would be horribly ridiculous.

Another issue is the extent of that BC in terms of catalog. Among other things, it's due to the issue of expiring licensing and rights for games.
I have a feeling that BC with XSeries games will have more reach than with XBO, X360 and Xbox1 games. Just like XSeries is compatible with 99% of XBO games, but nothing like that compared to X360 and Xbox 1.

In any case, it's something that won't be known until weeks or even days before the launch of XBOXnext.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Never said they were forced, keep up.

Sony never had free multiplayer from the beginning. No it wasn't inveitable until some company popularised it and the fanbase of that company defended it, opening up other companies to follow.

Hilarious take that only MS was smart enough to come up with something that would end up making Sony tons of money and become a standard part of its business model

If you think Sony is too stupid to land there on their own, you have a lower opinion of Sony than even me

 

[GHG]

I click the button, it starts the game. You guys pretend like it's more complicated then that.

Ah yes, because the widely documented issues with the windows store/xbox app don't exist right?

I must have been dreaming when it wouldn't give me my hard disk space back when uninstalling games. I must have been dreaming when I had to manually reinstall gaming services to get the app working properly again.

Alex must be hallucinating:



But as long as it works for you that's all that matters right? Let's just hope they don't rug pull you like they did with millions of us when they decided they didn't want to support GWFL anymore.

 

[coffinbirth]

Is your source Jez or do you just make things up rather than official documentation?

GitHub - microsoft/GDK: Microsoft Public GDK

Microsoft Public GDK. Contribute to microsoft/GDK development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

"For developers building Xbox One games, Win32 + GDK is a direct replacement for the WinRT-based Exclusive Resource Application (ERA) app model using the XDK, introduced on Xbox One; Xbox 360 developers similarly migrated to ERA in 2013."

They haven't used ERA since 2020. ALL Series and Xbox ecosystem games are created by the GDK and optimized by the GDKX. That isn't changing.

The guy has more ass pulls than a proctologist.

 

[bitbydeath]

Part of me thinks Jez got the BC part wrong entirely. I would not be surprised if Microsoft comes out and this thing is exactly like Rog Xbox Ally but in a console form factor and BC is achieved only via streaming. I hope not because then I'm back to "this isn't an Xbox" and we are going to have more folks confused thinking it can play games it can't play. Also, it becomes the most boring scenario possible. Native BC is a must have no matter what.

I doubt the solution has been figured out yet. These sorts of projects can run up right til launch, and even then, beyond. Hardware isn't a silver bullet for BC.

 

[jm89]

Hilarious take that only MS was smart enough to come up with something that would end up making Sony tons of money and become a standard part of its business model

Replace smart with greedy and you made some progress.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So an overpriced PC with a console library wrapper.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

Replace smart with greedy and you made some progress.

what's with the personal insults? You don't need to take personal offense when I talk about a huge corporations

And needing the help of someone else to come up with an important business practice is the very definition of stupid my friend. Greed is perhaps what compels them to follow suit and continue with said practice

I agree with you that Sony is both stupid and greedy though

Hey by your logic, Sony might end up dropping it as long as Microsoft drops it. Since MS apparently has that much influence

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm actually interested in what this pain inspired in him.

 

[jm89]

what's with the personal insults? You don't need to take personal offense when I talk about a huge corporations

How is that a personal insult? lol.

And needing the help of someone else to come up with an important business practice is the very definition of stupid my friend. Greed is perhaps what compels them to follow suit and continue with said practice

I wish MS was just as "stupid" as sony not to come up with charging for online multiplayer.

 

[Topher]

We've seen various statements from executives claiming a native BC and the creation of a team of engineers dedicated to game preservation; concrete job postings, and direct mention in the agreement with AMD with specific hardware in Magnus silicon for BC... (it's worth noting that all the leaks and insiders agree on this point).

Everything points to a native BC. Anything else would be horribly ridiculous.

Another issue is the extent of that BC in terms of catalog. Among other things, it's due to the issue of expiring licensing and rights for games.
I have a feeling that BC with XSeries games will have more reach than with XBO, X360 and Xbox1 games. Just like XSeries is compatible with 99% of XBO games, but nothing like that compared to X360 and Xbox 1.

In any case, it's something that won't be known until weeks or even days before the launch of XBOXnext.

Good points. I just have an abundance of cyncism when it comes to Microsoft doing what they say they will do these days. Like I said in my follow up, I think native BC is simply a must. Xbox on PC minus the Xbox games just isn't an Xbox. It is like leaving the soul of Xbox behind. I feel like that whenever the new Xbox is finally revealed, BC is going to be a big thing a lot of people will be honing in on. That and price, of course.

 

[I collect VHS tapes]

How is that a personal insult? lol.

I wish MS was just as "stupid" as sony not to come up with charging for online multiplayer.

Telling people to keep up and patronizing them by saying they made some progress is talking to someone like a child. You are clearly triggered for some reason and I can't wrap my head around it.

Your view that charging for online play is such a unique and clever concept that only Microsoft could've came up with it is so interesting to me given others adopted it. Sony should feel indebted to MS for showing them the light as they now rely heavily on that service. And you should be happy that Microsoft is dropping this because again by your logic Sony will likely follow suit

 

[Sorcerer]

Would it come bundled with a controller at least? lol. I'm starting to wonder if they will just sell them all as accessories so you pick what you want

The smart marketing move (if this thing is going to be expensive anyway) is to have it packaged with an Xbox branded mouse, keyboard and controller. If the message is that this is the only machine you need for gaming and productivity, the messaging should start with what they give you in the box. The marketing is easy, here are your controls for productivity, and here is your control for your leisure time. They will miss a great opportunity if they don't do this. Slam the message home immediately about what this device is and what it can do as opposed to just a console or just a standard PC.
I'm sure part of the plan is to get vendors to make officerly licensed mice, keyboards, and controllers for this thing. Although you should be able to use anything on the market.