Ar¢tos
Member
Why not?
Nintendo recently invented the mouse.
WC/Jez: Microsoft's ambitious new Xbox: Your entire Xbox console library, the full power of Windows PC gaming, and no multiplayer paywall
- Thread starter RetroGamingUK
- Start date
Nintendo recently invented the mouse.
mayham2199
Member
That's not a green rat. Your joining the PC master race. Using an APP doesn't make you a green rat anymore than using Steam makes you a blue walrus.
Mister Wolf
Member
You're going PC. Your new color is gold. Congratulations in advance.
awwr999999
Member
That's the whole point.
You can make your own Windows PC for much less and do all of those same things.
The point is to make Windows PC the best value option.
dgrdsv
Member
I'm about 99% sure that it won't be easy to use the thing for "PC purposes".
People expecting this h/w to just run your regular Windows don't really understand the model MS is pursuing.
This will likely still be a console with its own OS and own UI.
It just doesn't make any sense for MS to try and make a PC prebuilt - this market has close to negative margins as is, they won't be able to compete with huge OEMs on either price or margins.
So the h/w being closer to PC parts is fine - cuts down on R&D, allows for less platform specific optimizations needed, could potentially run a full Windows to allow running competitor's titles on the machine (for those who will care enough).
But the main s/w I'd still expect to be a console specific OS/SDKs.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Xbox Series sold 2M last year.
Likely around 1M (or less) this year given numerous stores around the world have either dropped them completely or severely reduced their stock in that time.
Who knows if there will even be a store presence for them by 2027, two years is a long time for Xbox with the current burning state it is in, and it's only going to continue getting worse, January is looming.
Shareholders will see it getting worse and continue to tear more shreds, who knows if Magnus will even be allowed to release once they're done, again, two years is a very long time.
bender
What time is it?
Team Andromeda
Member
I don't follow you, but I don't believe MS is they're trying to make out they're still losing up to $300 per Series X
BlackTron
Member
It's likely that the ability to customize, swap parts or run any software you wish will be traded off with being a simple box with console UI. Which is fine, until the price comes in. $1200-2k for a box destined to become dated with no way to limp it along with upgrades will only seem appealing to a niche. They know this which is why their success has been de-coupled from hardware with it. Wanna pay for a niche product? Great. Don't? Also great, that's why Halo is multiplat.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Pretty much. I could live with it, if it seems somewhat fair price wise and lasts at least 7 years. I spent $1000 already this gen on PS5 and Xbox together, and had PS+ for a while. For a very niche audience, it could be super cool.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
That's the question, would people spend more up front on a much higher powered system that you likely get a full generation out of vs those of us (like myself) who grab mid gen refreshes like the PS5 Pro because we want more power
I think the casuals will clearly say no but enthusiasts?
I dunno
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
reinking
Gold Member
Depending on where I am with Xbox, I will end up doing both. I am viewing I the next Xbox purchase as a mini/TV PC more than I am a console. It seems like it will offer me more of what PC gaming on a TV does now. I can see this being a big deal for gaming enthusiasts but passing by the traditional console market. I am excited to see what MS offers but sad if it weakens the overall console market.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Yeah, that's my question, too. MS doesn't have a great track record with regard to Windows or the Windows Store, and this is going to be all about Windows. They're promising a "curated" console-like experience, smooth as a baby's bottom, but it's easy to make promises, and it's easy to get excited about plans on paper. We'll see how smoothly the actual product functions.
BlackTron
Member
Therein lies the problem...casuals don't want that much expense/power, they want to get their foot in the door. Meanwhile enthusiasts don't want to spend big money on a PC with all its PCness stripped away. You're left with a niche enthusiast audience caught between both.
It's better for them to target a niche with hardware and serve that one segment they can profit on very well than targeting everyone and ending up underwater (just ask men in boxes)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You were talking about the hit MS was willing to lose on the console in the old days. They were losing $200-$300 per Xbox Series sold, not $50.
Pallas
Member
The removal of the online pay wall has my attention and the complete backwards compatibility. I want to see how Sony does in those two areas with the PS6.
Would it be strong enough to do native backwards compatibility with all the previous gen's? That'd be pretty awesome if they add that to the PS6.
in retrospect could you imagine Sega would be like if they had the IP's they have now back during the Saturn and Dreamcast days?
Would it be strong enough to do native backwards compatibility with all the previous gen's? That'd be pretty awesome if they add that to the PS6.
They have a pretty big catalog these days. It's definitely tempting to get it if that hypothetical ever happened. (it probably won't, but hey?)
in retrospect could you imagine Sega would be like if they had the IP's they have now back during the Saturn and Dreamcast days?
simpatico
Gold Member
Silicon prices could be the wildcard here. Assuming MS is willing to sell it as a loss. DRAM price hike this month is probably a sign of things to come with all the new demand. I'd be open minded to it if there was a true windows layer (just for modding / backward compatibility reasons).
Madjaba
Member
Except it will be a "standard PC" what other thing can it be ?
I'm glad some of you are discovering PC gaming today but stop praising things that are not worth any praises.
I can already use my "productivity controller" which is called a "keyboard" and potentially a "mouse" (mice was cute though).
And when I'm done "productiving" I can use my leisure controller which is called a "controller" to play games.
People are not THAT dumb.
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mayham2199
Member
Why would anyone assume this? This isn't happening.
simpatico
Gold Member
When hasn't a console been sold at a loss at launch?
Tobimacoss
Member
Neither MS, nor Sony are subsidizing consoles any more, especially MS if they allow other PC stores and get rid of online paywall.
At best, they will sell the first party consoles at cost, while OEMs sell higher spec variants for 20% profit.
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simpatico
Gold Member
There will be a nice chunk of budget to play with if they forgo building the digital garden walls. I don't think Microsoft invested as much as they did to go this far and bow out rather than taking a chance on some short-term hardware losses. It would be idiotic. There's a very competitive device that could be brought to market here, and I know there are people at Microsoft who see it. Now, I HIGHLY doubt whatever they end up releasing will be as amazing as it could be (not in terms of horsepower, but in mod-ability and common sense).
Topher
Identifies as young
Being subsidized doesn't necessarily mean they are taking a loss. If it is sold at cost it is still being subsidized by the closed garden system. More than likely Microsoft is going to be making their profits off of the hardware next gen if it is a PC which is why many are projecting significantly higher prices for Xbox.
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kevboard
Member
Tobimacoss
Member
Well, MS trying to make profits on the hardware is also speculation.
Amy hood wants profit margins of 30% for the entire division, not specifically hardware. The Series hardware being sold at $100-$150 loss per unit was cutting into those profit margins. As long as they aren't selling at loss, the division should hit 30% quite easily, especially being multi-platform, their games only need to sell 2-3 million copies to reach that 30%. Anything on top is icing on the cake.
Cloud Gaming costs roughly 3 cents an hour at current Series S profiles, according to the ABK leaked documents. Average 100 hours per month per user, is $3 per month. Even with Magnus based servers, the average costs would likely rise to $5 month but still not too much due to efficiency and server setup gains. So Cloud already has a 20-50% profit margin, based on $10 month subscription, and users buying at least one game.
The purpose of MS making first party consoles isn't really to extract profit but to act as a baseline for Developers to target and to console the Console userbase (pun intended). MS wants OEMs building most of the hardware. OEMs are welcome to make profits off the devices as they see fit based on whatever specs they can sell.
Topher
Identifies as young
K KeplerL2 said Xbox Series stopped selling at a loss a while back. You don't know that would achieve 30% profit margin even if that were not the case. Rest of your post is speculation and guessing as much as anyone's. And yeah, I fully acknowledge I'm speculating. I just don't see a Microsoft developing first party hardware at cost with no close ecosystem to capture profits backing it up. Makes no sense to do that while undercutting OEMs by 20% either.
Sorcerer
Member
I get that this nothing new really, there just using Xbox branding on a PC. That alone and the high price will not win anybody over. But if they really feel the current Xbox console fanbase can be converted to this machine at least play up its strengths compared to a "standard" game console. Perhaps there many that have stayed on console and never considered gaming on a pc.
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Ashamam
Member
Seriously how do you just come out with these figures and keep a straight face? I mean for starters 100hours is likely towards the end of the bell curve instead of the middle! There is a reason GFN put a 100 hour cap on per month, its to cull the 1% using a disproportionate amount of the service. Probably shared accounts with huge hours.
Also what efficiency gains specifically? What about power price rises? How are they going to depreciate the new hardware, for that matter is it a complete changeover, staged, scaled up etc etc. You have NFI. And your profit margin, big enough range there?? You are just throwing darts at the wall. You have stated you have no links to MS other than your mod duties (and shill duties here), so I'm taking you at your word you don't have MS whispering in your ear.
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DavidGzz
Member
So, if this is just a PC, why wouldn't everyone just go with PC Game Pass which is currently like half the price? I wonder how this will play out. No pay to play online would reduce the value of Game Pass as well. I think people are getting their hopes up for some possible misinformation.
Topher
Identifies as young
Pretty sure they are doing away with PC Game Pass. They are now doing this thing where they hide the link to PC Game Pass under neath the other tiers.
Madjaba
Member
Yeah when subscribing on PC the default tier is the Premium one which cost more for less content than what you can get with the PC Only Plan.Pretty sure they are doing away with PC Game Pass. They are now doing this thing where they hide the link to PC Game Pass under neath the other tiers.
It's obvious that this plan will disappear when the "Xbox console that is in fact a PC" will release.
MrTired
Member
Why would Sony change from the Razer model that works for them? Please if you're gonna insist that the Pro model is indicative of their future pricing you are mistaken.
The pro both the PS5 and the PS4 which were both sold at a profit were produced mainly to monetize existing users already in the ecosystem. Therefore the only extra spend you're getting from these users who are already in your ecosystem is money on the hardware.
So the PS6 will be sold at a loss, it may be at a reduced loss because of the lack of competition but it will still be sold at a loss to encourage people into enter the ecosystem.
Tobimacoss
Member
The 15 CU handheld Canis is the entry point SKU for Sony. Maybe possibly a PSTV or Series S style device with the internals used in the handheld.
Totoki also wants PlayStation to increase their profit margins to at least 15-18%.
Fahdis
Member
That's my secret Captain...
.... I'm already PC.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
saintjules
Gold Member
Bet it will look like this
Team Andromeda
Member
I don't believe MS were losing $300 per Series X sold myself, no matter what MS might say
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Now you are using too much common sense. Dumb your brain down some and then you'll see that everything you said is incorrect. Then and only then will you hit the "Jez Zone."
Source please....
So.............now we don't even listen to Microsoft Executives when they say how much money they are losing?
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Team Andromeda
Member
Not when you're meant to be losing over half the price for each console sold, years down the line, NO
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think this was in 2022. So it was around 2 years after the Xbox Series consoles were released.
Team Andromeda
Member
That makes a bit more sense, but I still find it highly questionable that any corp would be looking to lose more than half the retail price for each unit sold, maybe SEGA in their old nuts CSK days, but not MS after all the lessons they learnt with the OG Xbox and 360's TROD
BlackTron
Member
Microsoft "paid" to "beat" Sony in power, while expecting everyone to get a Series S with only the sweatiest enthusiasts going for the X.
They were wrong, so they paid a lot more than intended, on top of that they told everyone not to buy games, they couldn't come ahead on each unit. That's why they ended up under financial pressure, jacked the price and pulled the console from stores.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
At one point the PS3 was losing $300 per console. They sold a $600 console, that cost them $900 to manufacture and ship. It happens, when bad decisions are made.
Team Andromeda
Member
What a load of utter drivel
Team Andromeda
Member
There are a couple of differences there..
PS3 was using the then expensive Blu-ray drive and it was also in SONY's interest to kill HD DVD.
Pretty shit that, given that Toshiba made the GPU of the PS1 and the EE of the PS2
Big business is ruthless
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's the same thing.......the only thing different is the path and the "why" that Sony and MS took to sell their console at such a huge loss. They both had their "reasons".
Topher
Identifies as young
For the record, Phil Spencer said they lose $100 to $200 on every console three years ago. Kepler has said that is no longer the case.
Microsoft Loses Between $100 and $200 on Every Xbox Sold - IGN
Xbox boss Phil Spencer has said Microsoft loses between $100 and $200 on every Xbox Series X and S sold.