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[Eotheod]

Weirdly enough, the secret to a good relationship is open communication and making clear what you both want out of the relationship. No point wasting your life on a relationship that goes no where for either of you, no matter how good one part of it is. I'm speaking from someone who has had a variety of flings early in life, a five year relationship and then now with my fiance of eight years. Make mistakes, learn from them, communicate and be thoughtful to each other.

Also hygiene. Dear fucking god people give a little shit about your hygiene. Oh and truthfully don't listen to shit on these forums because they are hilariously skewed to some weird as fuck "women suck because I don't get dates/have been unsuccessful." Realistically don't even listen to my shit either, do you. Just don't be a dick.

 

[Woggleman]

I flat out told my wife that we will discuss and settle any issues she has or I have but to never mention the divorce or separation word unless she truly means it. That is a genie that can't be put back in the bottle and I will not be one of those men who begs a woman to love him and twists himself into knots trying to satisfy whatever unhappiness she blames me for.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I read threads like this for perspective. I try to have an idea of what dating is like for the modern man, something I've never had to do as every relationship I've been in wasn't initiated by me, and I think I've come to a decision from reading about your guys' various dating misadventures in this forum.

That's sort of lucky for you. In hundreds of online dating app conversations, dozens of first dates, and a few relationships, I think only one or two women have ever initiated the first date (a few more we sort of mutually got there asking what we wanted to check out in the city), one of those was the first one I described which was possibly why she was such a standout. And not like, trying because she's so far down that even she had to try with men, she was just really good overall and interested.

The skew on online dating is so extreme now. I always say, anyone who's been in a relationship for over 5 years just doesn't understand it. In the early days/golden era they were sort of ok. But the skew has gotten even more extreme and like I said only the top 20% of men appearance wise get likes from the top 80% of women, and the match rate for an average looking dude is like 1-2 in 100. Then most conversations don't respond, flake out after a few responses, or flake out once it moves to actually meeting as they were just window shopping.

I did start to think to get off those dogshit apps and just ask a few people out that are friends of friends in the social circles. That worked ok for some of them I guess, but I don't have a big enough network that it would be a regular source of dates before I've dated every single woman my friends know lol!

I'm also not blaming women at all for this situation. If we had all the choice in the world, we'd get choosy. It's all bound by what other men allow, not selective enough and willing to bend over backwards for someone that doesn't treat them right.

 

[poodaddy]

That's sort of lucky for you. In hundreds of online dating app conversations, dozens of first dates, and a few relationships, I think only one or two women have ever initiated the first date (a few more we sort of mutually got there asking what we wanted to check out in the city), one of those was the first one I described which was possibly why she was such a standout. And not like, trying because she's so far down that even she had to try with men, she was just really good overall and interested.

The skew on online dating is so extreme now. I always say, anyone who's been in a relationship for over 5 years just doesn't understand it. In the early days/golden era they were sort of ok. But the skew has gotten even more extreme and like I said only the top 20% of men appearance wise get likes from the top 80% of women, and the match rate for an average looking dude is like 1-2 in 100. Then most conversations don't respond, flake out after a few responses, or flake out once it moves to actually meeting as they were just window shopping.

I did start to think to get off those dogshit apps and just ask a few people out that are friends of friends in the social circles. That worked ok for some of them I guess, but I don't have a big enough network that it would be a regular source of dates before I've dated every single woman my friends know lol!

I'm also not blaming women at all for this situation. If we had all the choice in the world, we'd get choosy. It's all bound by what other men allow, not selective enough and willing to bend over backwards for someone that doesn't treat them right.

I've been married for a total of fifteen years of my life. I'm 35. I would be utterly and completely lost, no exaggeration at all. I truly wish it was better for you guys man. Yeah, I realize I've been lucky in a sense. For what it's worth, I remember thinking at 18 that I would probably die a virgin and never be with anyone, and that I probably deserved that. I had this weird philosophy that I needed to be one of the miserable people because there had to be miserable people to give happiness meaning....I was really pathetic lol. I don't really know what it was that made women want to give me a chance, but I know I don't have it now. I've become even more of a hermit, more jaded, only now I'm just getting old too, and boy is the appearance catching up to the number. I'm just gonna do everything in my power to keep this relationship going for as long as possible, and when it ends I'll be happy for the time I had, as I honestly think me having a romantic history at all is kind of just a fluke. Good luck to you brother, I know things will turn out positive. You seem like a well spoken, intelligent, and kind person. In my experience, those traits tend to be valued by women of ethical worth, so I know you'll get that ideal woman for you at some point. Just stay positive and keep being you.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I feel you OP - I’m one of those guys that would genuinely rather go watch a movie or go to an awesome dinner with best friends rather than a random girl online. But as I’m approaching my late 20s, I’ve been getting more serious because I know I do want to start a family someday.

Profile matters so much. Last year I was like you, maybe if I’m lucky I’d get a match or two a week but none of them were quality. Quality matches were maybe every other month if that. And then it probably doesn’t even matter because that one quality match has 100s of matches - you’re right, majority of women want to be with a top 20% man in terms of attractiveness. But late last year I fixed up my profile - better pictures, been working out a bit/styling hair, have a decent/thoughtful bio (I used to have short 1-2 sentences that made me prob come off as an fboy and not serious), etc. Now im currently talking to 5 women, at least 2 are definitely out of my league (Im a 5 at best) but idk maybe they like my career/job. I’m still working on getting better at dates themselves - I’m a natural introvert and it takes me a while to fully let my personality out. A lot of my faliures with women have only made me more insecure. I struggle with eye contact, showing confidence, etc. I’m working on it…

I matched with a girl last august, things were going so well, legitimately it has been 8 years since I felt a certain way - the feeling that you know this is the one for you/marriage material. Things were going so well, and then one day she started randomly ghosting me and then 2 weeks later she said she felt no “spark”. We all know what that really means, she prob matched with someone she found more attractive and that was that. Problem is my head has been stuck on this girl - we still follow each other on social media and I message her some posts sometimes on insta because I’m a simp, I still really want her. She keeps me around because she knows I can be an option for her if things don’t work out. The issue with this is, I can’t fully put my efforts on other women because I’m still thinking about her. I know all this…I know it’s a problem, but the heart wants what the heart wants idk.

Anyways, you’re not alone OP! Most men are struggling with this and you’re right it should get better as we age. Good luck!

 

[jason10mm]

It used to be pretty normal for my straight friends to jump in there some nights? Probably depends on the city vibe? But then we started hearing the gays saying the straights were ruining it so didn't go as much lol

Heh heh, I've been out with lady friends that say they like going to gay clubs so they won't be constantly hit on by guys but personally I don't much care for the atmosphere.

 

[jason10mm]

I flat out told my wife that we will discuss and settle any issues she has or I have but to never mention the divorce or separation word unless she truly means it. That is a genie that can't be put back in the bottle and I will not be one of those men who begs a woman to love him and twists himself into knots trying to satisfy whatever unhappiness she blames me for.

Thats a good attitude if you can keep them to it. But quite frankly divorce so heavily favors the woman in most cases its an easy panic button for them to hit.

 

[Tams]

Why are you hanging around in gay bars?

The gays usually know how to party.

I don't go to them anymore as it's not fair on anyone involved. I'm not looking for dick and they are. But if you don't mind letting them down or are looking for dick, then it's a usually a great time.

 

[LordOfChaos]

The gays usually know how to party.

I don't go to them anymore as it's not fair on anyone involved. I'm not looking for dick and they are. But if you don't mind letting them down or are looking for dick, then it's a usually a great time.

That's also why we don't really go anymore, but if you think about it no one in a regular bar owes anyone pussy or dick, you're always allowed to refuse. But when the population shifts to straight people starting to become significant in what was a gay bar I can get their gripe that it's ruining their thing.

 

[Bragr]

The gays usually know how to party.

I don't go to them anymore as it's not fair on anyone involved. I'm not looking for dick and they are. But if you don't mind letting them down or are looking for dick, then it's a usually a great time.

I dont really buy that a normal hetro would think like this, no matter how well they party.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Profile matters so much. Last year I was like you, maybe if I’m lucky I’d get a match or two a week but none of them were quality. Quality matches were maybe every other month if that. And then it probably doesn’t even matter because that one quality match has 100s of matches - you’re right, majority of women want to be with a top 20% man in terms of attractiveness. But late last year I fixed up my profile - better pictures, been working out a bit/styling hair, have a decent/thoughtful bio (I used to have short 1-2 sentences that made me prob come off as an fboy and not serious), etc. Now im currently talking to 5 women, at least 2 are definitely out of my league (Im a 5 at best) but idk maybe they like my career/job. I’m still working on getting better at dates themselves - I’m a natural introvert and it takes me a while to fully let my personality out. A lot of my faliures with women have only made me more insecure. I struggle with eye contact, showing confidence, etc. I’m working on it…

Anyways, you’re not alone OP! Most men are struggling with this and you’re right it should get better as we age. Good luck!

Thank you and yeah I've done all the profile improvement stuff, I have decent varieties of photos and all, and a filled out bio (Also: notice how many if not most women don't even have a bio now? no effort needed, it's all on our part again), and honestly I don't think I'm bad, to bordering on starting to get a little hot lol, I notice looks and changing attitude towards me in the gym and stuff. But dating apps are just bad for all the demographic reasons already discussed. I always have to laugh when I see a blog written by a woman about how men should improve their profiles...Like ok, maybe you improve 10 to 20%. Now make a profile with the most average looking stock photo guy you can, bonus points if you make him a person of color as brown guys are the least selected people in all of online dating, and see if you can attract your own gender. I'd bet all my money they similarly flame out most of the time and join the few matches in 100 swipes club if they picked a truly average guy.

I think about data for a living lol, so it's just becoming unappealing to me. The match rate, the viable conversation rate, and then the getting to a date rate, and then the date having good vibes rate, and then the rate of it going good for a while, and then not ending for some reason beyond your control. So like, I have to go through some thousands of more swipes for a chance at another long term relationship?

And then, as a man, there's also this bias against you that if this happens you were just looking to fuck around/are a fuckboy, and those women all by default would have wanted to get in an LTR. I see this from my female friends, family, and generally on the internet frequently. Like hellooo, no, I'm trying to be serious, I have my own house I earned entirely by myself, a good career, I'm in shape, I don't know anyone that's hated me and I'm nice to people, I don't even have an ex that hates my guts as it's always just ended when we were positive on each other. So I'm not the fuckboy, if anything I was the fucktoy loool

 

[Blade2.0]

Find a married milf trust me

Been hitting on a much older woman (married) that comes into the bank every now and then. Going to give her my phone number next time she's in and see where it leads.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Been hitting on a much older woman (married) that comes into the bank every now and then. Going to give her my phone number next time she's in and see where it leads.

And that was the last we heard of Blade2.0

 

[Days like these...]

Been hitting on a much older woman (married) that comes into the bank every now and then. Going to give her my phone number next time she's in and see where it leads.

It will most likely lead to amazing sex

 

[West Texas CEO]

Also hygiene. Dear fucking god people give a little shit about your hygiene.

I disagree.
I use bad hygiene to test if she really likes me or not.

 

[Blade2.0]

And that was the last we heard of Blade2.0

I died with a smile on my face.

 

[rofif]

Loneliness is terrible. It has some good sides I guess but I don't wish anyone to be alone.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I died with a smile on my face.

And her hubby in your cheeks tho

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I disagree.
I use bad hygiene to test if she really likes me or not.

“If you can’t handle me at my stinkiest, you don’t deserve me so fresh and so clean clean”

 

[Woggleman]

Thats a good attitude if you can keep them to it. But quite frankly divorce so heavily favors the woman in most cases its an easy panic button for them to hit.

If she mentions divorce you lawyer up and prepare for war.