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[Gaborn]

I actually didn't mean to imply that. I actually think being a vegetarian is really healthy and I wish I could be one. =[

Ahhh, fair enough.

 

[blame space]

It's like, I'm a vegetarian, right? I get this kind of shit all the time.

Someone offers me something to eat, and I'm like "no thanks, I'm a vegetarian/don't eat meat/etc." And they give me this fuckin' raised eyebrow like I just inconvenienced them.

I can take this one step further. My roommate's sister came over the other day, I'd never met her before. The first words out of her mouth after my roommate introduced us: "So why are you a vegetarian?"

My mouth dropped. I'm a pretty quiet vegetarian (at least I am when I'm not online), but I was extremely close to just going off on her. Instead I just smiled and said, "Well, there are a lot of reasons."

I hate people sometimes. Sorry for being off-topic.

 

[Sai-kun]

I actually didn't mean to imply that. I actually think being a vegetarian is really healthy and I wish I could be one. =[

but i love meat so much.

 

[RiskyChris]

but i love meat so much.

I like the corollary this implies.

.

 

[ZephyrFate]

but i love meat so much.

That's exactly why I'm not vegetarian. I love meat.

 

[Sai-kun]

That's exactly why I'm not vegetarian. I love meat.

I could eat meat all day.

 

[Mumei]

Because being obnoxious and flamboyant, i.e. painting the wrong mental image of the gay population as a whole, is also leading us to equality.

Maybe when the rest of the world doesn't think we're all superbly feminine and flamboyant, eccentric to the max, and etc. then we can start to gain some footholds.

Why are you conflating obnoxiousness and flamboyancy?

ETA:

I find it truly obnoxious when people like you whine about people who are effeminate, as though it is their fault, removing all responsibility from the bigots.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I could eat meat all day.

I wish I had a constant amount of meat everyday.

 

[Crab Shaker]

I can take this one step further. My roommate's sister came over the other day, I'd never met her before. The first words out of her mouth after my roommate introduced us: "So why are you a vegetarian?"

My mouth dropped. I'm a pretty quiet vegetarian (at least I am when I'm not online), but I was extremely close to just going off on her. Instead I just smiled and said, "Well, there are a lot of reasons."

I hate people sometimes. Sorry for being off-topic.

Why would that question offend you, unless she had a really negative tone? I've asked it before, because I want to know what reasoning a person had to make such a choice. Health, animal cruelty, etc.

 

[RiskyChris]

Why are you conflating obnoxiousness and flamboyancy?

Yeah this is a pretty crazy thing to be parroting in this thread. Good luck with that argument...

Why would that question offend you, unless she had a really negative tone? I've asked it before, because I want to know what reasoning a person had to make such a choice. Health, animal cruelty, etc.

I've had someone open a conversation up with "so you think you're better than me?" It was probably with a negative tone :lol

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm glad GayGAF finally got it's own thread.

Makes me miss my boyfriend

 

[ZephyrFate]

Why are you conflating obnoxiousness and flamboyancy?

ETA:

I find it truly obnoxious when people like you whine about people who are effeminate, as though it is their fault, removing all responsibility from the bigots.

I find it even more obnoxious when people liken me to "holding back" the gay community because of my opinions. I have a middle finger to throw up to that bullshit. I'm all for pride parades, gay rights, and changing society's image of us.

If that's not good enough, then screw you.

 

[Crab Shaker]

I've had someone open a conversation up with "so you think you're better than me?" It was probably with a negative tone :lol

Well, in all honesty that sounds like either a really funny person or a douchebag.

 

[Mumei]

Yeah this is a pretty crazy thing to be parroting in this thread. Good luck with that argument...

I'm not sure why. Some people might find it obnoxious, but they aren't the same thing.

Homophobia is essentially a form of anti-femininity - at its core, it is about castigating femininity in men (and masculinity in women, to a lesser degree). The problem is people who point their finger at effeminate gay men, and make up nonsense about how their behavior is somehow genuine and who they really are, while those other faggots who mince about are just engaging in some sort of self-consciously obnoxious affectation, and who really deserve all the shit that comes their way.

It's an absurd form of blaming the victim, and I'm surprised to see it.

I find it even more obnoxious when people liken me to "holding back" the gay community because of my opinions. I have a middle finger to throw up to that bullshit. I'm all for pride parades, gay rights, and changing society's image of us.

If that's not good enough, then screw you.

The problem is that you don't think that effeminate gay men are included in "us." "As you said, you think that they "portray gay men in the wrong light." It's an absurd argument - those gay men are not actually masculine and pretending to be mincing queens just to annoy you. It is who they are, and I find it appalling that you would choose to side with the bigots over them.

 

[RiskyChris]

I find it even more obnoxious when people liken me to "holding back" the gay community because of my opinions. I have a middle finger to throw up to that bullshit. I'm all for pride parades, gay rights, and changing society's image of us.

If that's not good enough, then screw you.

I find it even more obnoxious when people liken me to "holding back" the gay community because of my behavior. I have a middle finger to throw up to that bullshit.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm not sure why. Some people might find it obnoxious, but they aren't the same thing.

Homophobia is essentially a form of anti-femininity - at its core, it is about castigating femininity in men (and masculinity in women, to a lesser degree). The problem is people who point their finger at effeminate gay men, and make up nonsense about how their behavior is somehow genuine and who they really are, while those other faggots who mince about are just engaging in some sort of self-consciously obnoxious affectation, and who really deserve all the shit that comes their way.

It's an absurd form of blaming the victim, and I'm surprised to see it.

HAHAHAHA

So you're calling me homophobic, now? I think we're done here. This argument is becoming incredibly absurd, incredibly fast.

So let's talk about men. Men are awesome.

 

[Sai-kun]

HAHAHAHA

So you're calling me homophobic, now? I think we're done here. This argument is becoming incredibly absurd, incredibly fast.

So let's talk about men. Men are awesome.

I love meat! I'm eating meat right now.

 

[ZephyrFate]

You're... you're eating meat and posting on GAF? What a winning combination!

 

[Mumei]

HAHAHAHA

So you're calling me homophobic, now? I think we're done here. This argument is becoming incredibly absurd, incredibly fast.

So let's talk about men. Men are awesome.

I didn't attempt to label you.

Where did I mess up, then? You do believe the effeminacy in men is loathsome, right? You believe that responsibility for homophobia lies primarily with effeminate gay men, right? You absolve homophobes of their responsibility, because you believe that if it weren't for those other faggots messing everything up things would be just great, right?

So where did I get your position wrong? You aren't actually blaming the victims for the bigots' hang-ups?

 

[ZephyrFate]

I didn't attempt to label you.

Where did I mess up, then? You do believe the effeminacy in men is loathsome, right? You believe that responsibility for homophobia lies primarily with effeminate gay men, right? You absolve homophobes of their responsibility, because you believe that if it weren't for those other faggots messing everything up things would be just great, right?

So where did I get your position wrong? You aren't actually blaming the victims for the bigots' hang-ups?

For the good of the thread I am not going to continue this. Please, continue to sling mud. I'm not going to respond anymore, take that as you will. This thread deserves better discussion.

 

[Mumei]

For the good of the thread I am not going to continue this. Please, continue to sling mud. I'm not going to respond anymore, take that as you will. This thread deserves better discussion.

I'm not slinging mud. I'm simply paraphrasing what I think your stated position in this topic is. If I've misunderstood your position, say what I got wrong.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm not homophobic. I am just pissed off that society lumps the gay image into flamboyant / effeminate when I am pretty much neither, therefore people assume I MUST be that way or I'm not gay. Then, I'd have to prove it through methods idahoblue stated earlier, and that's just bothersome.

People don't understand that gay is a variety of flavors, not just the one. It just so happens that effeminate gays are the ones who are the most vocal, get the most attention, etc. Because of that gay guys like me get lumped into being like them, when we're not. We're a different variety of gay altogether.

God I'm so tired of this argument. I'm going to go write more on my novel

 

[zon]

I'm not homophobic. I am just pissed off that society lumps the gay image into flamboyant / effeminate when I am pretty much neither, therefore people assume I MUST be that way or I'm not gay. Then, I'd have to prove it through methods idahoblue stated earlier, and that's just bothersome.

People don't understand that gay is a variety of flavors, not just the one. It just so happens that effeminate gays are the ones who are the most vocal, get the most attention, etc. Because of that gay guys like me get lumped into being like them, when we're not. We're a different variety of gay altogether.

God I'm so tired of this argument. I'm going to go write more on my novel

But it's not their fault for being catapulted into the spotlight. I think it's more a result of a society that wants to portray gay men in a way that makes it easy to identify, and separate, them from straight men.

 

[Mumei]

I'm not homophobic. I am just pissed off that society lumps the gay image into flamboyant / effeminate when I am pretty much neither, therefore people assume I MUST be that way or I'm not gay. Then, I'd have to prove it through methods idahoblue stated earlier, and that's just bothersome.

People don't understand that gay is a variety of flavors, not just the one. It just so happens that effeminate gays are the ones who are the most vocal, get the most attention, etc. Because of that gay guys like me get lumped into being like them, when we're not. We're a different variety of gay altogether.

What I don't understand is why it is problematic for you if some ignorant twat lumps you in with effeminate gay men. So what? You aren't, and if someone is that narrow-minded that they can't see that gay men are just as capable of the same levels of masculinity and femininity as straight men, in all their possible combinations, why worry about their opinion?

I understand that you get lumped in - we all do. But I don't understand why you take so much offense to the idea that someone might think you're effeminate.

Also, I think you overestimate how much society lumps in effeminacy and homosexuality these days. One of the biggest successes of the gay rights movement, in terms of changing the culture, is in educating people that homosexuality != effeminacy (at least not necessarily); that gay men are capable of being masculine, too. The downside with that is that I think that as that notion that gay men can be masculine has become more mainstream, it has increased the negativity towards effeminate gay men, who are forced to deal with far more shit than any masculine gay man.

God I'm so tired of this argument. I'm going to go write more on my novel

Pfft.

I love these sorts of arguments. Come back when you're ready to play more.

 

[dragonlife]

Men, drama, discussion of men, relationships, debate...

Sounds like a successful GayGAF thread!

 

[Suerte]

I'm not homophobic. I am just pissed off that society lumps the gay image into flamboyant / effeminate when I am pretty much neither, therefore people assume I MUST be that way or I'm not gay. Then, I'd have to prove it through methods idahoblue stated earlier, and that's just bothersome.

People don't understand that gay is a variety of flavors, not just the one. It just so happens that effeminate gays are the ones who are the most vocal, get the most attention, etc. Because of that gay guys like me get lumped into being like them, when we're not. We're a different variety of gay altogether.

God I'm so tired of this argument. I'm going to go write more on my novel

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to sign up for your newsletter.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to sign up for your newsletter.

The newsletter is called, "Everyone gangs up on ZephyrFate for having the lone dissenting gay opinion"

 

[Mumei]

The newsletter is called, "Everyone gangs up on ZephyrFate for having the lone dissenting gay opinion"

 

[ZephyrFate]

I LOVE CAREBEARS

and with that, I really need to finish this god damn chapter up it's driving me insane and there's an epic battle sequence I have to get out of the way!

 

[Masked Man]

It's like, I'm a vegetarian, right? I get this kind of shit all the time.

Someone offers me something to eat, and I'm like "no thanks, I'm a vegetarian/don't eat meat/etc." And they give me this fuckin' raised eyebrow like I just inconvenienced them.

Oh my gosh, THIS. My college (Oberlin) is very vegetarian/vegan-friendly, but coming home to Midwestern suburbia reminded me that very few other places are. =/ I hate that subtly implied condescension.

I can take this one step further. My roommate's sister came over the other day, I'd never met her before. The first words out of her mouth after my roommate introduced us: "So why are you a vegetarian?".

My brother asked me that the other day. To be fair, I've been a vegetarian for a year or so at this point, so it isn't as though it's new to him; on the other hand, he's only had to "confront" it for the past month or two that I've been back from school. He asked that same question in what I presume to be the same dismissive tone. I contemplated replying with "And why do you fucking care?" but I love my little brother far too much to ever be that rude with him.

 

[Suerte]

The newsletter is called, "Everyone gangs up on ZephyrFate for having the lone dissenting gay opinion"

I'll join your army my friend. I feel it is time to return to GAF show our gayming-age flock the one true path! Or some shiz like that.

On a serious note, it is great to see gayming-age thriving these days, back in the day our numbers were but a few...

 

[Tntnnbltn]

and with that, I really need to finish this god damn chapter up it's driving me insane and there's an epic battle sequence I have to get out of the way!

Perhaps you can have your protagonist give a lone dissenting opinion. An epic battle sequence is sure to ensue.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Hi, Suerte! I miss having you around on a regular basis.

 

[Tntnnbltn]

Hi, Suerte! I miss having you around on a regular basis.

I think I'm getting tired. I honestly just read this as "I miss having sex with you on a regular basis."

 

[Suerte]

Hi, Suerte! I miss having you around on a regular basis.

Aw, thank you my friend! I've been lurking (well, mostly perving on the hot men/post new pics thread) but I will make an effort to start posting.

I think I'm getting tired. I honestly just read this as "I miss having sex with you on a regular basis."

I'm sure he misses that too.

 

[Garcia]

Men, drama, discussion of men, relationships, debate...

Sounds like a successful GayGAF thread!

I know right, it's got everything

 

[excelforward]

You.

I couldn't decide how to answer that question. What do you think?

I'd say... well. Shit.

You're just Mumei.

 

[Mumei]

I'd say... well. Shit.

You're just Mumei.

So, I'm androgynous. :lol

Hey, when do you work next? I need to come visit!

 

[btkadams]

ok i am curious about all of your opinions.

last night my boyfriend and i were at a gay club with a few of his straight friends (they loved it). we were dancing on the dancefloor and....

Him: would you mind if i went and danced with other guys?

Me: um.... what do you mean?

Him: well a few guys have been giving me looks like they want to dance with me. would you be bothered by that? is that ok?

Me: well...you can do what you want i guess but to be honest that would look like a really big asshole move.

Him: yeah it would be weird.

THEN WHY DID YOU ASK ME. that puts me in such a weird position, do you not agree? if he thought it would be weird then why would he even bring that up. like i really wanted to know that guys were wanting to hook up with him.

and then weird tension the rest of the night.

 

[Mumei]

THEN WHY DID YOU ASK ME.

'cause he wanted to dance with other boys really bad, and he knew it was an asshole-ish thing to do, so he decided to ask for permission and see if he got lucky.

Spoiler

My guess, anyway

 

[btkadams]

'cause he wanted to dance with other boys really bad, and he knew it was an asshole-ish thing to do, so he decided to ask for permission and see if he got lucky.

Spoiler

My guess, anyway

:/ that is what is going through my head. he claims it wasn't. and that he was just curious on what i thought.

fuckk

 

[Suerte]

It sounds like this is the first time that kind of thing has happened, do you often go out to gay clubs together?

I doubt he meant anything by it, he was probably just drunk & felt overly confident from (what he assumed to be) people checking him out.

 

[btkadams]

It sounds like this is the first time that kind of thing has happened, do you often go out to gay clubs together?

I doubt he meant anything by it, he was probably just drunk & felt overly confident from (what he assumed to be) people checking him out.

we've probably been to the gay club like 7 or 8 times together. and yeah it was the first time he's ever said something like that.

he probably didnt mean anything by it, he just really sucks at communicating sometimes and says the absolutely stupidest things without meaning to come off that way.... or he does mean it and then sees my reaction lol.

 

[Magnus]

Livejournal time!

I live in Toronto, one of the gay-friendliest cities on the planet, and I couldn't feel more distant from my fellow homos. I go enjoy a night at the bars and clubs and whatever downtown with friends every now and then, but they're either lesbians or visitors to that part of town, and we all say goodbye to it at the end of the night. I can never meet anyone down there that has more to offer than a hot body for 30 seconds on the dance floor. Online dating is one repeat bust after another, with people misrepresenting or all turning out to be extremely flamboyant or into the community, and neither applies to me.

All the gay people I know fall into relationships with people they actually meet at work, friends from high school or university, or just random hookups. I always chuckle when I hear these stories, because despite my hunt, I never meet homos at work (either customers or coworkers) and high school was a barren wasteland (I knew of only two others at the time, and two more since, none of which I was attracted to then or now).

What am I doing wrong? I'm so disconnected from the queer community in one of the largest queer friendly cities on Earth, and I feel like I'll never find anyone. Do I have to throw myself into village events and communities, volunteer down there, start announcing it more in the hopes someone will hear? Just keep plugging away at online dating? (which has scored an 0 for 7 so far over the last few years for me) No one I know has had to do that to meet people. I hate the idea of going out to hunt for a relationship; everyone, and I mean everyone I know has had them naturally evolve from friendships that entered their lives. Everyone I meet in the course of my life winds up straight, without fail. It's depressing.

Sorry, I'm done now.

How do you guys connect to your local gay communities? Are they responsible for you finding the people you wind up with in dating or relationships?

 

[KibblesBits]

Livejournal time!

I live in Toronto, one of the gay-friendliest cities on the planet, and I couldn't feel more distant from my fellow homos. I go enjoy a night at the bars and clubs and whatever downtown with friends every now and then, but they're either lesbians or visitors to that part of town, and we all say goodbye to it at the end of the night. I can never meet anyone down there that has more to offer than a hot body for 30 seconds on the dance floor. Online dating is one repeat bust after another, with people misrepresenting or all turning out to be extremely flamboyant or into the community, and neither applies to me.

All the gay people I know fall into relationships with people they actually meet at work, friends from high school or university, or just random hookups. I always chuckle when I hear these stories, because despite my hunt, I never meet homos at work (either customers or coworkers) and high school was a barren wasteland (I knew of only two others at the time, and two more since, none of which I was attracted to then or now).

What am I doing wrong? I'm so disconnected from the queer community in one of the largest queer friendly cities on Earth, and I feel like I'll never find anyone. Do I have to throw myself into village events and communities, volunteer down there, start announcing it more in the hopes someone will hear? Just keep plugging away at online dating? (which has scored an 0 for 7 so far over the last few years for me) No one I know has had to do that to meet people. I hate the idea of going out to hunt for a relationship; everyone, and I mean everyone I know has had them naturally evolve from friendships that entered their lives. Everyone I meet in the course of my life winds up straight, without fail. It's depressing.

Sorry, I'm done now.

How do you guys connect to your local gay communities? Are they responsible for you finding the people you wind up with in dating or relationships?

IMO you should just focus on the things that you enjoy doing day to day and keep an eye out for anyone who may be of interest to you in those activities. The online scene is a mess and clubs are for getting hookups.... don't you think you're more likely to enjoy the person you meet more at an event you like instead of one you don't like?

 

[Wilsongt]

IMO you should just focus on the things that you enjoy doing day to day and keep an eye out for anyone who may be of interest to you in those activities. The online scene is a mess and clubs are for getting hookups.... don't you think you're more likely to enjoy the person you meet more at an event you like instead of one you don't like?

I agree with the online scene being overrated and not so great. You might find a diamond in the rough, but it isn't always guaranteed.

 

[Magnus]

IMO you should just focus on the things that you enjoy doing day to day and keep an eye out for anyone who may be of interest to you in those activities. The online scene is a mess and clubs are for getting hookups.... don't you think you're more likely to enjoy the person you meet more at an event you like instead of one you don't like?

I appreciate the replies, but that's just the point; sticking to what I love to do day to day isn't cutting it for meeting people. I'm not naive enough to think that no homos will show up where I am, but how the fuck do I find them? I have the faultiest gaydar on the planet, and I'm apparently well-concealed myself, so I'm like the blind looking for the invisible. Or something. That was a terrible analogy.

Online seemed to be the only safe way to find people who prefer not to announce their sexual orientation with their dress code or their choice of venue for Saturday night, and it's turned into a trainwreck.

I haven't really had more than one date with anyone before tiring of them, lol. Every last one has been rah-rah queers activist, ridiculously effeminate or ready to hop in the sack right away (which I took advantage of, but ended up regretting later).

I've just about given up, and I'm 24. There have to be some normals out there? I'm so fucking tired of seeing everyone around me fall in love and into relationships without even trying.

To add insult to injury, my best friend just had his 1-year anniversary with his girlfriend, and they were practically unbeknownst high-school sweethearts for the last seven years. I never even see the guy anymore because he's too busy being happy doing ho's before bros, and I mean, I'm happy for him, but we used to commiserate together for eons about our poor luck with relationships and dating and swore we'd never shut each other out, and here we are, after I practically had to push them together to realize they loved each other. It's like a really bad sitcom, but the nice guy is finishing last.

Dude knew how much Pride and the parade mattered to me this year (was my first year going to it), swore months back he'd come with me so I wouldn't have to be down there alone, and ditched me with 'work' (aka the gf) piling up on his schedule when the weekend arrived.

Kill me.

 

[Mumei]

I appreciate the replies, but that's just the point; sticking to what I love to do day to day isn't cutting it for meeting people. I'm not naive enough to think that no homos will show up where I am, but how the fuck do I find them? I have the faultiest gaydar on the planet, and I'm apparently well-concealed myself, so I'm like the blind looking for the invisible. Or something. That was a terrible analogy.

Online seemed to be the only safe way to find people who prefer not to announce their sexual orientation with their dress code or their choice of venue for Saturday night, and it's turned into a trainwreck.

I haven't really had more than one date with anyone before tiring of them, lol. Every last one has been rah-rah queers activist, ridiculously effeminate or ready to hop in the sack right away (which I took advantage of, but ended up regretting later).

I've just about given up, and I'm 24. There have to be some normals out there? I'm so fucking tired of seeing everyone around me fall in love and into relationships without even trying.

Well, you could become a hermit and die friendless and alone.

Spoiler

Sorry. If it makes you feel better, I have no dating life, either!

 

[Wilsongt]

I appreciate the replies, but that's just the point; sticking to what I love to do day to day isn't cutting it for meeting people. I'm not naive enough to think that no homos will show up where I am, but how the fuck do I find them? I have the faultiest gaydar on the planet, and I'm apparently well-concealed myself, so I'm like the blind looking for the invisible. Or something. That was a terrible analogy.

Online seemed to be the only safe way to find people who prefer not to announce their sexual orientation with their dress code or their choice of venue for Saturday night, and it's turned into a trainwreck.

I haven't really had more than one date with anyone before tiring of them, lol. Every last one has been rah-rah queers activist, ridiculously effeminate or ready to hop in the sack right away (which I took advantage of, but ended up regretting later).

I've just about given up, and I'm 24. There have to be some normals out there? I'm so fucking tired of seeing everyone around me fall in love and into relationships without even trying.

To add insult to injury, my best friend just had his 1-year anniversary with his girlfriend, and they were practically unbeknownst high-school sweethearts for the last seven years. I never even see the guy anymore because he's too busy being happy doing ho's before bros, and I mean, I'm happy for him, but we used to commiserate together for eons about our poor luck with relationships and dating and swore we'd never shut each other out, and here we are, after I practically had to push them together to realize they loved each other. It's like a really bad sitcom, but the nice guy is finishing last.

Dude knew how much Pride and the parade mattered to me this year (was my first year going to it), swore months back he'd come with me so I wouldn't have to be down there alone, and ditched me with 'work' (aka the gf) piling up on his schedule when the weekend arrived.

Kill me.

I definitely know where you are coming from. I should follow my own advice when I say this, but definitely don't give up. You're still young and I am a firm believer that there is someone out there for everyone.

 

[Magnus]

Thanks for commiserating with me :lol

It's such a miserable state of affairs. Girls love me, lesbians love me, tons of straight guy friends hang with me....I'm attracting every crowd except the right one. What the fuck.

You know what I'm actually considering -- that speed dating crap. It's like $20 for a night, and no commitments. Can't be too awful, right?

I'm so horny.

I'm Ted, from Queer as Folk. Just not an accountant, and better at conversation.