Support NeoGAF

[Fbh]

Poor japanese players are like:
"Did you hear? Sony is making a AAA game inspired by Cowboy Bebop.

Expectations:

Reality

 

[JohnnyPhats]

 

[Filben]

If they knew that people wouldn't like it, then why are they insistent on continuing down this path? What are they hoping to achieve?

Normally I'd say because they like it that way. With video games and their directors becoming more of an auteur, they want their vision to materialize, not a game by the numbers. In our AAA era where there's less and less artistic risk, this is quite bold and unconventional.

Personally, I find most AAA so boring narrative-wise and gameplay-wise that I don't mind provocation to trigger my emotions because AAA gaming and playing hundreds of video games in my life time made it a bit numb. Most AAA games ride the same old tropes for a decade now. Stories (in AAA games) that challenge you and your own perspective like let's say books? So fucking rare.

TLOU2 triggered emotionally invested people so hard they sent death threats to the creators. Speaks for the game and what it does to a person emotionally. And it's a good thing because it shows it's not irrelevant (although I find antisocial behaviour like sending death threats a little bit too much).

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Just seeing his face makes me want to punch him/her or it.

So that this eats his straw too.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

“They’ll sell the hair as DLC” LMAO

 

[Trogdor1123]

Shouldn’t we wait to actually see what the game is about first? We haven’t even really seen anything

 

[Thief1987]

Poor japanese players are like:
"Did you hear? Sony is making a AAA game inspired by Cowboy Bebop.

Expectations:

Reality

I think they are perfectly aware of what is western gamedev, and PlayStation's especially, to have such expectations.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Do those exist?

Absolutely. Relatively new and not every country let's woman partake.

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

The boss adding fuel to wildfire.

 

[GHound]

Poor japanese players are like:
"Did you hear? Sony is making a AAA game inspired by Cowboy Bebop.

Expectations:

Reality

Former Netflix Cowboy Beepboop showrunners taking notes in the off chance they ever get another shot at it.

 

[unlurkified]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

 

[LordOcidax]

This comment raises a very good question.

If they knew that people wouldn't like it, then why are they insistent on continuing down this path? What are they hoping to achieve?

It was the “trend” back in 2019-20, now things started to change… They are going to correct the course eventually.

 

[GHG]

Looks like the same is true for Sony/Naughty Dog fans. This controversy is uncharted territory to them.

But in all seriousness, this shouldn't be anything new for anyone considering we just had Concord.

If naughty dog decide to go down the same road and ignore the feedback then the game and those responsible for digging their heads in the sand will also suffer the same fate. Totoki isn't here to fuck around.

 

[Putonahappyface]

We've skipped that and gone straight to the "bans" page aka the killing fields.

 

[Fabieter]

Shouldn’t we wait to actually see what the game is about first? We haven’t even really seen anything

I don't know about you. I expect a certain design philosophy after that trailer.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Shouldn’t we wait to actually see what the game is about first? We haven’t even really seen anything

There would be no point... If we already know it will be shit.

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

We've skipped that and gone straight to the "bans" page aka the killing fields.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Still four centuries away.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

People are right about the attitude. Why do they all gotta be arrogant and smug? Act like their shit don’t stink. They know everything. Etc.

I think that turns people away even more than the looks. No one wants to be lectured to, especially by characters like this.

 

[ElFenomeno]

Repulsive character design.

 

[Denton]

Some things are universal.

Thank you Naughty Gods for uniting humanity in these trying times.

 

[Putonahappyface]

So what has pissed Japanese gamers off more then? Assassin's Creed Shadows or Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet?

 

[TintoConCasera]

I'm all in for strong female leads in games. It's nothing new really, we've gotten them since the days of Tomb Raider, Metroid or Perfect Dark. Thing is, for some reason, modern devs like to make those female protags in the less feminine possible way they can. Why? Fuck if I know man, guess they believe feminine traits go against being strong or something.

Shouldn’t we wait to actually see what the game is about first? We haven’t even really seen anything

Pattern recognition.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

lol what?

I will even give you some extreme examples. lol

Those are good examples - but my post was a reference to how wokeists feature 'strong women' by emulating all male traits.

 

[GHG]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

My Mrs made an interesting comment/observation on this the other week:

By definition there are very few ugly people, but there are plenty of lazy people.

It's something she noticed after going back to the UK to visit family and friends (we've lived in the middle east for over a decade now). Some of her friends (who were once good looking) have really let themselves go physically. For some reason so many people there make absolutely no effort and it's now culturally accepted so nobody even bothers to say anything or do anything about it.

 

[EviLore]

So what has pissed Japanese gamers off more then? Assassin's Creed Shadows or Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet?

Shadows, without a doubt. They took Shadows personally.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Japanese gamers get it and aren’t afraid to call it out. Hope this shite game bombs for ND. What a radical departure from the first Uncharted game that had feminine women and a male lead in the game.

 

[Neff]

I can work with an ugly protagonist. The fact that I was controlling a bald, grumpy, unlikeable jerk covered in tattoos didn't hurt my enjoyment of GOW Ragnarok any.

 

[PeteBull]

So what has pissed Japanese gamers off more then? Assassin's Creed Shadows or Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet?

They wont buy either, so conclusion is- both games pissed them off enough

 

[LordOcidax]

Japanese gamers get it and aren’t afraid to call it out. Hope this shite game bombs for ND. What a radical departure from the first Uncharted game that had feminine women and a male lead in the game.

I think some things are going to change before release, they can’t afford another Concord situation. Sony is aware of the reactions on the internet.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

That one comment made me think.

Why release a game when you know it’s not gonna be well received and you even block comments.

I do feel like this is one of those type of games where it’s more of a passion project for Neil than making money. I’m just not sure how comfortable Sony is. On one hand you have one of your most premier studio and on the other hand, money.

Maybe you've taken several hundred million in interest free ESG credit and are obligated to release products that comply with their demands for giving away said credit?

 

[vpance]

If the Japanese don't like it the Chinese likely won't either. They have similar tastes when it comes to games and aesthetics.

Imagine not giving that market any consideration in this day and age, and as the first game in long time that ND will be able to get released officially over there.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

A bit off topic, but considering people's replies on this trailer and praise for Japan and how it is anti-dei, wonder how they will react to the prominent dei stuff in so many manga's, even popular ones. Lesbien, gay, trans, etc. heck, one of the most popular in fate series is a trans character. So many manga's have those.

 

[ProtoByte]

I see the Japanese gaming audience is no less prone to buzzwording.

That first comment is a ridiculous. There's nothing particularly aggressive or violent about the protag shown in that trailer. And let's be honest, every female main character in an action game from Samus to Lara Croft, Lightning and Ellie has some degree of "the masculine". It's kind of a necessity.

They just don't like the look of this Jordan character. Druckmann and co KNEW that the reaction was going to be like this, and I think they're doing it out of spite because they genuinely disdain the gaming audience. Some of which, I can't blame them for, witnessing the reaction to the Part II leaks and actual game, and seeing revisionist, glib, antagonist and just straight up stupid comments like a number of them here.

That isn't me saying I am excited for the game, or that people should be. I actually cannot believe that Naughty Dog is choosing this hill, and that Sony is allowing them to do so, and think the game's direction is horrible so far.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Wrong place.

 

[vpance]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

Ugly people (inside and out) have taken over the industry and their HR departments.

 

[Mister Wolf]

A bit off topic, but considering people's replies on this trailer and praise for Japan and how it is anti-dei, wonder how they will react to the prominent dei stuff in so many manga's, even popular ones. Lesbien, gay, trans, etc. heck, one of the most popular in fate series is a trans character. So many manga's have those.

Zero interest in the "trap" troupe in manga/anime or male characters being drawn as effeminate like they belong in the BL or Shoujo genre.

 

[RoboFu]

A bit off topic, but considering people's replies on this trailer and praise for Japan and how it is anti-dei, wonder how they will react to the prominent dei stuff in so many manga's, even popular ones. Lesbien, gay, trans, etc. heck, one of the most popular in fate series is a trans character. So many manga's have those.

Japanese love gay and trans characters but the big difference is they are just normal people maybe a little flamboyant but not woke. Woke isn't just being gay or trans. It's an agenda to bring others down not build themselves up.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

I’ve only watched La Blue Girl and don’t know the tentacle monsters genders and was ok with that.

 

[Drell]

A bit off topic, but considering people's replies on this trailer and praise for Japan and how it is anti-dei, wonder how they will react to the prominent dei stuff in so many manga's, even popular ones. Lesbien, gay, trans, etc. heck, one of the most popular in fate series is a trans character. So many manga's have those.

Japanese mangakas didn't wait for america to patronize them about DEI to make lgbt characters. The difference is that they are good characters.

 

[Kataploom]

It is good that the Japanese are fully aware of the clown show the West has become, because this will make them ten times more alert to the wokeness of companies like Capcom and Square.

The downside is that the Japanese have more or less stopped buying games from these companies, so their opinions do not really matter anymore.

Still, it's nice to know they are fully aware.

But they sell games in the west, some even seen more than in Japan or at least a good amount of them, they definitely are aware of the general rejection from gamers to these trends, they're at least not blind this time around about what actually is popular here and they can't get sold a fraud as "modern audience"anymore

 

[Skifi28]

Shouldn’t we wait to actually see what the game is about first? We haven’t even really seen anything

It's the same thing that happened with Yotei, the moment the internet saw a woman it was in flames for dozens of pages yelling "woke" even though there was no real evidence. While the trailer did nothing for me, I will personally wait for some real gameplay and information to see whether it's something worth playing or woke trash. We're not even sure if the character in the trailer was the playable protagonist.

 

[Crayon]

It's funny how it's all the same sentiment but more polite lol.

 

[Tomeru]

I mean its obvious. There is male behaviour and female behsviour. It is what it is. We cant invent new behsviours, because this is who we are.

Man and Woman.

 

[LectureMaster]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

At at the Stellar Blade dev group photo, none of the females are as attractive as Eve, but they genuinely happy about their game. As a developer, you are making a product to indulge your customers, not to make a self-insert portrait. The liberal narcissistic mindset has plagued the western industry way too much.

 

[Sanepar]

I'm glad this game exist.
It's going to be super expensive on money for both Naughty Dog and Sony.
And the game gonna flop wich Sony will have to make a decision to clear out everything with DEI into the company and sub-company, when they gonna see Gatcha/China/Korean game make more money than PSStudio. (Not speaking about Kadokawa if the buyout comes true).

It is delusional to believe a nd game will flop.

 

[mrqs]

This comment raises a very good question.

If they knew that people wouldn't like it, then why are they insistent on continuing down this path? What are they hoping to achieve?

Who are the 'people' here?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Imagine caring about this.

No wonder birthrates in Japan are dramatically low with all these beta males.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

This comment raises a very good question.

If they knew that people wouldn't like it, then why are they insistent on continuing down this path? What are they hoping to achieve?

Everything eventually leads to Marxism and totalitarian control. It’s to get people to conform.

 

[FingerBang]

I honestly don’t understand the fetishization of ugly women. Is it because most ‘nerdy’ women in development look average and they don’t want to make them feel bad? How is it virtuous to normalize ugly women in media when most people want to look at attractive characters.

It's not a fetishization, is a reaction to gamergate/online feminism. These people started making a lot of fuss about the male gaze, sexy game characters, the objectification of women etc. Instead of focusing on the point most people were making about gamergate (gaming journalism being corrupt), they only cared about the harassment of women and doubled down.

Then we had 2020 and the rise of the omnicause (LGBT, BLM, green agenda and so on) and every game developer now needs to show they have enough progressive points to get funds. And every one of them has a DEI department that tells them that good looking women are a no-no, because no pleasing men, sir.

The main issue for me isn't that though. I have no problem with the identity of a well written character. The problem is most of these characters are usually not well written. They write women like men, because ideologically for them there are no differences between sexes and cultures, so they think swapping someone's skin and genitals is absolutely fine for representation.

What we're seeing here is a character I'd probably love to play as if it was a man, just based on what I've seen. As a woman, she looks extremely unlikeable and smug. I don't understand how you'd introduce her like this and think "people are going to love her".

Am I mad? No, hopefully the game is still great, but they deserve the criticism and they knew it was coming.