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[Varjet]

I'm not arguing that it has better design than OoT (well, it does.), but just responding to your statement that it has the same design, which isn't true.

I will give you the Forsaken Fortress, but beside that?

OoT was 3 dungeons for Master Sword > 7 dungeons for 7 sages > final dungeon.
WW was Forsaken Fortress > 3 dungeons for Master Sword > Forsaken Fortress repeat > 2 dungeons for 2 sages > triforce quest > final dungeon.

 

[Dascu]

I will give you the Forsaken Fortress, but beside that?

Tower of the Gods was most certainly separated from the other 2 dungeons, both in story, location, quests you had to do before you could enter, post-dungeon (old Hyrule). It's a stand-alone dungeon. If you're going to add it up to the other 2, then you might as well add up all dungeons for Ocarina too. Getting from JabuJabu's belly to the Forest dungeon in OoT is less work than getting the Pearl from Jabun and gaining entrance to the Tower of the Gods.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

You have eleven thousand posts on a gaming message board.

I spend the majority of time on my laptop browsing GAF at school like a lot of the members here. Same with work. :lol

EDIT-Actually, almost all of my posts come from the PoliGAF thread. 2008 elections were a helluva year for me. :lol

 

[Varjet]

Getting from JabuJabu's belly to the Forest dungeon in OoT is less work than getting the Pearl from Jabun and gaining entrance to the Tower of the Gods.

Uh, to get to the Tower of Gods you only have to go to three spots on the map. Which takes a while, yes, but not for the right reasons.

 

[HylianScribe]

I don’t think it’s [the graphics] going to change dramatically. We are doing it on the Wii [console]. That being said, we can look at Twilight Princess – it was built to run on both GameCube and Wii, and this one will be running only on Wii, so I think there will be differences inherent to the fact that it’s only on this platform.

I don't know about you guys, but when I first read this, I took it as the visuals are NOT going to be cel-shaded. They'll be the style of Twilight Princess, but trying to make better use of the Wii hardware since Twilight Princess was developed with the limitations of the GCN hardware and merely ported to Wii. Aonuma has also mentioned he thought the cel-shaded visuals [probably] won't be making a return for the console installments, either.

 

[Dascu]

Uh, to get to the Tower of Gods you only have to go to three spots on the map. Which takes a while, yes, but not for the right reasons.

Yeah, heaven forbid you need to explore an ocean and sail around on your ship.

I'm also going to stop discussing this now as I feel uncomfortable arguing about Wind Waker. That game should never be associated with bad things like internet arguments.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I don't know about you guys, but when I first read this, I took it as the visuals are NOT going to be cel-shaded. They'll be the style of Twilight Princess, but trying to make better use of the Wii hardware since Twilight Princess was developed with the limitations of the GCN hardware and merely ported to Wii.

Uh, I think everyone in this thread knows that.

 

[Varjet]

Yeah, heaven forbid you need to explore an ocean and sail around on your ship.

And by "explore an ocean" you mean "go to the three spots that are marked on your map", right?

 

[Dascu]

And by "explore an ocean" you mean "go to the three spots that are marked on your map", right?

He marks it? Huh. Well alright then.

By the way, there's a map in Tetra's quarters with the locations of those statues.

 

[Poyunch]

Yeah, heaven forbid you need to explore an ocean and sail around on your ship.

I'm also going to stop discussing this now as I feel uncomfortable arguing about Wind Waker. That game should never be associated with bad things like internet arguments.

But...

 

[Varjet]

By the way, there's a map in Tetra's quarters with the locations of those statues.

Heh, I always liked Tetra's room. It's full of little details.

 

[Version 3.0]

The structure is still shaken up. You're expecting to get 3 dungeons for the 3 pearls and the storm comes and goes overly dramatic. Forsaken Fortress 2.0 and Tower of the Gods right away in succesion. And of course the triforce hunt can be started right away.

Sure some of the shakes up are because of some rushed content, and of course it has to share similarities, because that's what Nintendo feels makes Zelda, Zelda.

But it can't be argued that it did things different, and really well made changes until triforce hunt.

I most certainly can argue that replacing a dungeon (Pearl #3) with a cutscene is not a "really well made change". I didn't watch the scene, get the pearl, and think "Wow, that was dramatic". I thought "Did I just get screwed out of a big chunk of the game?". And the answer turned out to be yes.

Nor is re-using the same (already half-assed) dungeon twice (Forsaken Fortress) a "well made change". Wind Waker didn't feel different to me because it had a fresh design--it didn't. It had some nice refinements and some nice, but minor, additions. And I didn't have any complaint about the design; the design was rock-solid and very satisfactory. My complaint is that the major differences are all either due to missing content, or perceived missing content.

 

[HylianScribe]

Uh, I think everyone in this thread knows that.

In previous pages, people kept posting that they hope the new Zelda will use cel-shading. Was trying to re-state it's [probably] not happening.

 

[Relix]

You know, there's a reason why so many Link cosplayers are female. :lol


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_BirvUCzeN8s/Scsq0rl683I/AAAAAAAAAq4/VH6EsMuJXis/the_legend_of_zelda_-_link.png[/QUOTE]

Those girls are beyond hot. Goddammit.

 

[..pakbeka..]

I didn't dislike the artwork... it just felt like it was trying to hard to convey the popular anime look with a splash of darkness.

the artist said he took his inspiration for the MM artwork from the Hellboy comics

 

[Vinci]

the artist said he took his inspiration for the MM artwork from the Hellboy comics

I can totally see and appreciate that.

 

[scitek]

You know, there's a reason why so many Link cosplayers are female. :lol

Dude, that chick on the left is smokin' hot.

 

[selig]

Other than hot Link-chicks:

What I really loved about TWW was its sense for adventure and exploration...thanks to the vast ocean. Sure, its execution in TWW sucked. Every square would always have one island, and you had to play the damn song to change direction all the time. But except for these complaints, nothing feels better than sailing on a seemingly limitless ocean and suddenly spotting something in the far. Then approaching it and as you approach it, you get to see more details of where you´re going to.

I have no idea how to replicate that feeling with a non-waterworld-based game-world, but I loved it in TWW.

 

[WillyFive]

Dude, that chick on the left is smokin' hot.

I don't see the difference between either of them other than the color of the suits.

You like blue?

 

[Vinci]

My only expectations for Zelda Wii is that it has fun, intuitive controls that apply to a variety of situations, and that its overworld is less massive and more filled with shit to do. That's really all I want from it. So yeah, I'm hoping Nintendo can deliver at least that much.

 

[hyduK]

Some people seem to forget that the only 3d Zelda's that really have the same structure is OoT and TP. Go play WW and tell me it's the same exact structure.

WW was:

An overworld bigger than TPs, with less to do in it. Oh but it was an ocean instead of a field.
Less, shorter, easier, overall worse dungeons than OOT, MM (well, it had more dungeons than MM, but MM's were much longer and just better), and TP.
Replaced some questionable filler from the other 3d entries, with an undeniably bad fetch quest.

Sure, you could say they switched up the formula, but they really just condensed it. The only things I'd take from WW are the music from Dragon Roast Island, and the Forbidden Woods.

OoT had the best overworld imo, the mistake that was made was that everything besides Lon Lon Ranch was accessed from the edge of the field. TP was too large for its own good, MM had a good ratio of size:stuff to do, but it just felt off.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I'm wondering who did the tailor work on the tunics, because they did a damn good job of it.

 

[The Lamonster]

I like how hot girls always derail threads here on NeoGAF.

In the best of ways, of course.

 

[Prime Blue]

I don't know about you guys, but when I first read this, I took it as the visuals are NOT going to be cel-shaded. They'll be the style of Twilight Princess, but trying to make better use of the Wii hardware since Twilight Princess was developed with the limitations of the GCN hardware and merely ported to Wii. Aonuma has also mentioned he thought the cel-shaded visuals [probably] won't be making a return for the console installments, either.

Well, there's been some statements that semi-confirmed the game to use realistic graphics (see references in the Wikipedia article):

For Twilight Princess we used the adult Link and one of the interesting things about that was how we considered the precise proportions of Link and the world. The scale is because we aimed for a more realistic quality in the size of the environments of Hyrule and what that Link faced. But the question is whether or not we were able to incorporate any and all of the interesting game ideas that were able to take advantage of that kind of sheer grand scale within the Zelda universe. I am afraid that definitely no, we were not able to do all the things that perhaps with hindsight we had the capabilities to do. With that as the starting point, we are now developing the Wii version of Legend Of Zelda.

With Twilight Princess, we challenged ourself to create the most vast and realistic world the series had ever seen, but we don't feel that we were able to fully complete this objective. With that as a starting point for our improvements to the series in the future, we are of course working on a new game for Wii.

 

[Krowley]

WW was:

An overworld bigger than TPs, with less to do in it. Oh but it was an ocean instead of a field.
Less, shorter, easier, overall worse dungeons than OOT, MM (well, it had more dungeons than MM, but MM's were much longer and just better), and TP.
Replaced some questionable filler from the other 3d entries, with an undeniably bad fetch quest.

Sure, you could say they switched up the formula, but they really just condensed it. The only things I'd take from WW are the music from Dragon Roast Island, and the Forbidden Woods.

OoT had the best overworld imo, the mistake that was made was that everything besides Lon Lon Ranch was accessed from the edge of the field. TP was too large for its own good, MM had a good ratio of size:stuff to do, but it just felt off.

I generally agree with all of this except I think TP's overworld was more fun than OOTs. It was bigger and felt more like a real world to me. Some of the rewards for exploration weren't that amazing, but I really enjoyed searching for caves and riding my horse.

 

[hyduK]

I generally agree with all of this except I think TP's overworld was more fun than OOTs. It was bigger and felt more like a real world to me. Some of the rewards for exploration weren't that amazing, but I really enjoyed searching for caves and riding my horse.

The problem with overworlds in Zelda, is that even if you populate them with tons of caves and shit to go through it's hard to give an incentive to go in them. As it stands the only valueable item they have to put at the end of a cave is a heart piece, and even those are pretty useless unless you're a completionist.

OoT had the biggoron sword that at least gave you SOME incentive to go around to otherwise meaningless areas and do some stuff.
MM had masks, easily the best incentive to stray away from the main story in a Zelda game.

So yeah, they can place a bunch of caves in the overworld that aren't directly related to the main story, but first they need to think of stuff to put in those caves.

 

[Vinci]

So yeah, they can place a bunch of caves in the overworld that aren't directly related to the main story, but first they need to think of stuff to put in those caves.

Or they, you know, could just make playing the game fun in and of itself, so exploring caves with random shit in them is enjoyable and extends the playtime you have with the title.

 

[Version 3.0]

My only expectations for Zelda Wii is that it has fun, intuitive controls that apply to a variety of situations, and that its overworld is less massive and more filled with shit to do. That's really all I want from it. So yeah, I'm hoping Nintendo can deliver at least that much.

I have lots of hopes and few expectations. I like yours. But all I really, truly feel like they just HAVE to fix this time is A) the difficulty and B) the endlessly repeated, unskippable item/rupee/etc messages.

 

[Vinci]

I have lots of hopes and few expectations. I like yours. But all I really, truly feel like they just HAVE to fix this time is A) the difficulty and B) the endlessly repeated, unskippable item/rupee/etc messages.

If they're using the Super Guide for the game, which is likely, I'd say the odds of it having a higher difficulty than prior titles is good. Not guaranteed, obviously, but it seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point. And yeah, they need to one-time messages - do it, then move on.

 

[The Lamonster]

I want a Zelda game as big and as epic as WoW (geography-wise).

I really don't care if there are things to do as long as there are herbs and animals to hunt (similar to RDR). I don't need a mini-game at every turn.

 

[Vinci]

I want a Zelda game as big and as epic as WoW (geography-wise).

I really don't care if there are things to do as long as there are herbs and animals to hunt (similar to RDR). I don't need a mini-game at every turn.

I like WoW; I like RDR. But you and I are polar opposites when it comes to Zelda, I must say.

 

[Oblivion]

WW was:

An overworld bigger than TPs, with less to do in it. Oh but it was an ocean instead of a field.
Less, shorter, easier, overall worse dungeons than OOT, MM (well, it had more dungeons than MM, but MM's were much longer and just better), and TP.
Replaced some questionable filler from the other 3d entries, with an undeniably bad fetch quest.

Sure, you could say they switched up the formula, but they really just condensed it. The only things I'd take from WW are the music from Dragon Roast Island, and the Forbidden Woods.

OoT had the best overworld imo, the mistake that was made was that everything besides Lon Lon Ranch was accessed from the edge of the field. TP was too large for its own good, MM had a good ratio of size:stuff to do, but it just felt off.

THANK YOU.

I really hate it when people seem to think WW was vastly different structure-wise, simply cause you travel in an ocean instead of land, and Epona happens to be a boat.

I'd even argue that MM doesn't stray that much from most Zelda games either.

 

[Rindain]

I want a use for Rupees. Way too many of them and not enough stuff to buy in TP.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

THANK YOU.

I really hate it when people seem to think WW was vastly different structure-wise, simply cause you travel in an ocean instead of land, and Epona happens to be a boat.

I'd even argue that MM doesn't stray that much from most Zelda games either.

But but MM is only only creative one.

 

[selig]

But but MM is only only creative one.

MM isnt as creative as people always make it appear to be. The realtime-structure was creative, but that´s it. There was the shit from dungeons to overworld-quests, but that only went so far. I´d say, if OoT -> MM is what Nintendo has planned as a structural change for Zelda Wii, then I´ll be disappointed.

 

[Branduil]

I want Wind Waker for the 3DS with the missing dungeons put back in and the triforce hunt taken out.

 

[The Lamonster]

Are you guys prepared to have your dreams shattered pretty soon?


The Zelda Cycle: hopes and dreams eventually crushed by a different (yet still pretty awesome) reality.

 

[WillyFive]

I want Wind Waker for the 3DS with the missing dungeons put back in and the triforce hunt taken out.

I still can't understand the hate for this.

I didn't even notice it when I played it.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

MM isnt as creative as people always make it appear to be. The realtime-structure was creative, but that´s it. There was the shit from dungeons to overworld-quests, but that only went so far. I´d say, if OoT -> MM is what Nintendo has planned as a structural change for Zelda Wii, then I´ll be disappointed.

Are you high? The overworld quests is by far the most satisfying in any Zelda game. Not only did the masks play an important part of the NPC structure in MM, but the masks themselves added variety to the gameplay. The most creative part about MM were the Deku, Goron, and Zora masks. You used those masks both in and out of dungeons to solve puzzles and fight enemies.

Seriously, you must be fishing for a tag or something. :lol

 

[Smiles and Cries]

with Xenoblade now out in Japan looking like it does, Zelda Wii needs to step up... my jaw better drop when they show it next week

 

[Hot Coldman]

Seriously, you must be fishing for a tag or something. :lol

He already got one.

 

[Vinci]

with Xenoblade now out in Japan looking like it does, Zelda Wii needs to step up... my jaw better drop when they show it next week

Outside of the environments, Xenoblade isn't a pretty game. That said, it looks really really good.

 

[The Lamonster]

Are you high? The overworld quests is by far the most satisfying in any Zelda game. Not only did the masks play an important part of the NPC structure in MM, but the masks themselves added variety to the gameplay. The most creative part about MM were the Deku, Goron, and Zora masks. You used those masks both in and out of dungeons to solve puzzles and fight enemies.

Seriously, you must be fishing for a tag or something. :lol

And also, think about the environments you found those masks in.

Fully fleshed-out cultures, man.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

with Xenoblade now out in Japan looking like it does, Zelda Wii needs to step up... my jaw better drop when they show it next week

Xenoblade looks like shit.

 

[selig]

Are you high? The overworld quests is by far the most satisfying in any Zelda game. Not only did the masks play an important part of the NPC structure in MM, but the masks themselves added variety to the gameplay. The most creative part about MM were the Deku, Goron, and Zora masks. You used those masks both in and out of dungeons to solve puzzles and fight enemies.

Seriously, you must be fishing for a tag or something. :lol

The masks worked as additional items. What are you arguing for? MM had less dungeons and more stuff on the overworld. It´s a shift in focus. But as for real creativity in terms of the overall structure, it didnt really change much. It was still overworld -> dungeon -> small keys -> dungeon item -> big key -> defeat boss with dungeon item -> overworld -> rinse and repeat.

You´re arguing about details. Never said anything about that.

 

[snesfreak]

MM isnt as creative as people always make it appear to be. The realtime-structure was creative, but that´s it. There was the shit from dungeons to overworld-quests, but that only went so far. I´d say, if OoT -> MM is what Nintendo has planned as a structural change for Zelda Wii, then I´ll be disappointed.

 

[gamergirly]

Are you guys prepared to have your dreams shattered pretty soon?

The Zelda Cycle: hopes and dreams eventually crushed by a different (yet still pretty awesome) reality.

Know something we dont?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

MM isnt as creative as people always make it appear to be. The realtime-structure was creative, but that´s it. There was the shit from dungeons to overworld-quests, but that only went so far. I´d say, if OoT -> MM is what Nintendo has planned as a structural change for Zelda Wii, then I´ll be disappointed.

The masks worked as additional items. What are you arguing for? MM had less dungeons and more stuff on the overworld. It´s a shit in focus. But as for real creativity in terms of the overall structure, it didnt really change much. It was still overworld -> dungeon -> small keys -> dungeon item -> big key -> defeat boss with dungeon item -> overworld -> rinse and repeat.

You´re arguing about details. Never said anything about that.

SELIG STOP POSTING

 

[Kilrogg]

Outside of the environments, Xenoblade isn't a pretty game. That said, it looks really really good.

When I watched today's gameplay video and how empty the starting area is, I couldn't help but think of your gripes about movement and lack of action in modern 3D game (which you know I share) . The game looks like a borefest from that standpoint.

 

[Vinci]

When I watched today's gameplay video and how empty the starting area is, I couldn't help but think of your gripes about movement and lack of action in modern 3D game (which you know I share) . The game looks like a borefest from that standpoint.

I like some aspects of Xenoblade, but yeah. I don't mind expansive environments in games at all, but there needs to be some utility in them; they can't be there just to act as a buffer between points A and B. I can't tell if Xenoblade is going for one or the other attribute, which is why I'm on the fence. The gameplay videos seem all over the place: One will look good, while another seems empty and just lifeless.

I don't know. Weird title. I'll probably at least rent it out of curiosity.