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[Peru]

Think about the wiiu. It was slightly better as xbox 360. If NX does again the same thing like wiiu, nobody wants it. The nx console should slightly be better than ps4 i think to compete. We know how well it goes with x1 sales. Why should nx goes in the same direction while the other console are already on the markt for 2y?

Come on, this dick measuring graphics talk is silly. The Wii U sales don't have much to do with power. Slightly better graphics than PS4 will not give the NX automatic success. Why did the 3DS thrash the Vita? Why did the Gamecube fail? Etc etc

 

[Rösti]

I meant it has no chance of competing with ps5 Xbox 2.

Maybe NX via SCDs could eventually reach (or even surpass) the power of the next generation systems from Microsoft and Sony?

 

[jonno394]

I wonder if the "shared library" type talk we have will just be a case of what goes on with PS3/PSV or PS4/PSV with so many games getting released on both.

 

[Nirolak]

I wonder if the "shared library" type talk we have will just be a case of what goes on with PS3/PSV or PS4/PSV with so many games getting released on both.

From Iwata's comments, the initial impression I got was that Nintendo felt that Westerners preferred consoles and Japanese people preferred handhelds, but with rising expectations Nintendo could never support both, and thus would make two devices where scaling content across both of them was possible and relatively painless in an effort to try and satisfy both audiences.

However, I'm not sure what the actually practical implementation ended up being since Iwata likely made these comments when a lot of things about the system(s) were still up in the air given how long ago it was.

It could be like the iPhone/iPad/Apple TV, but just as easily like the Vita/PS3 instead.

 

[bachikarn]

Come on, this dick measuring graphics talk is silly. The Wii U sales don't have much to do with power. Slightly better graphics than PS4 will not give the NX automatic success. Why did the 3DS thrash the Vita? Why did the Gamecube fail? Etc etc

I think it is incorrect to say it 'does not have much to do with power.' There are certainly a lot of factors, but Nintendo basically negates any ability get better with that albatross.

It is clear the western market wants better graphics. Nintendo will always be behind if they can't do better there. Better graphics won't magically make them #1, but it gives them a chance again.

 

[Nirolak]

I think it is incorrect to say it 'does not have much to do with power.' There are certainly a lot of factors, but Nintendo basically negates any ability get better with that albatross.

It is clear the western market wants better graphics. Nintendo will always be behind if they can't do better there. Better graphics won't magically make them #1, but it gives them a chance again.

Not mentioned as frequently, but Western AAA developers clamor for better hardware perhaps harder than anyone else, as it makes their lives easier and let's them make more ambitious games.

Their publishers tend to give them infinite money pits, so the potential for even further budget inflation is not really a drawback for them.

Mind, they won't bother releasing games on even a powerful platform if they don't think the audience will be there.

 

[gulma1]

I wonder how much the Wii U could have been without the tablet controller.

Pricing is a big thing for Nintendo. It's a problem for both handheld and console. 150 handheld would make an extremely affordable device as would 250 for home console. I'm thinking DS/Wii era.

I don't think Nintendo will use expensive technology this time around.

 

[jonno394]

From Iwata's comments, the initial impression I got was that Nintendo felt that Westerners preferred consoles and Japanese people preferred handhelds, but with rising expectations Nintendo could never support both, and thus would make two devices where scaling content across both of them was possible and relatively painless in an effort to try and satisfy both audiences.

However, I'm not sure what the actually practical implementation ended up being since Iwata likely made these comments when a lot of things about the system(s) were still up in the air given how long ago it was.

It could be like the iPhone/iPad/Apple TV, but just as easily like the Vita/PS3 instead.

Yeah, I agree that there is a desire to satiate both type of gamers Nintendo seek to serve. It's one of those where from a consumers view, i'd love it to be one game that scales to both consoles, and I only have to buy once, but from a business point of view, I can't imagine why Nintendo would only look to sell one version of each title when they could get away with selling them separately, or in "double packs" with a discount or something to that effect.

Now, one game for both systems would be a potential carrot to hold on a stick though, and i'm sure Nintendo have better minds than I poring over the numbers and seeing whether it's financially possible/sensible to do something like this.

As a hypothesis, what would people think about a situation like this:

Games are shared between both devices:

Console is physical/digital. The handheld is digital only. You buy a physical game (for the home console) and it comes with a download code or the option to install the handheld version when the handheld is connected to the console? And if you opt for digital only purchase with the handheld, it is "cross-buy" much like the PS3/Vita for several indie titles.

 

[10k]

I am definitely puzzled as to what the X-factor for the NX is going to be

Have two new and sleek systems with reasonable cost and power, a new account system, and modern network features would be enough for me..

Whats the "one more thing" thats supposed to define it?

Because right now all the info in the OP just points to a course correction to get Nintendo back with the times in a few areas.

Haptic feedback and free form displays for the handheld and controller screen.

Scrolling-shoulder buttons - Schrolders™

Yup.

We have no idea and nothing to base our speculation on aside from a few vague patents. So it's kind of pointless speculating.

I feel like we're missing something. Just because Nintendo combined their handheld and console divisions doesn't mean shared libraries. It means easier to port between the two, sure, since Iwata complained how it was hard to take Wii games and port them to 3DS or 3DS games to Wii U.

But I don't think the gimmick will be that all games will work on both sku's. Back when NX speculation first started my theory was the console will play everything, including the handheld games (with a built in native resolution enhancer), will have a cartridge slot for the handheld games, and a lot more cross buy games would be available.

But the handheld won't be able to play all the console games and will still get some exclusives or cross buy games (notably indies). So in other words, the NX handheld will be like what the 3DS is now, but with much better specs and screen resolution and perhaps four shoulder buttons (two of which are scrolling), and will get the usual games.

But the console is where the big changes happen, since for the first time you could technically play Pokemon on it, or Mario and Luigi, or Monster Hunter 4, etc.

 

[yoonshik]

edit: nothing, i'm dumb.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Why would Nintendo even want to limit thier games to console after all this effort?

 

[Roo]

I think Nintendo is going to end up having a "Vita TV" version of NX at some point. You take the guts of the handheld, give it an HDMI out and an upscaler (assuming the HH runs at 540p, 1080p is a perfect 2x increase) and boom; you've created a small, digital-only streaming box that plays NX games. $99 and ship it.

That's not how resolution works, dude..

 

[atbigelow]

That's not how resolution works, dude..

Whoops, I meant it's a straight/perfect 2x multiplier in resolution dimensions. It's 4x the actual pixels.

 

[Graphics Horse]

That's not how resolution works, dude..

It's how upscaling works. Or scaling in general, no need go convert everything into a pixel count unless you're worried about allocating memory or something. Don't know why people get hung up over this.

 

[Snakeyes]

Console is physical/digital. The handheld is digital only.

You've got to remember that the traditional Japanese gaming audience has a significant preference for physical media over digital downloads, to the point that going digital only with the handheld may hurt its sales in its primary market.

I still think having game carts across the board is the best option for the sake of driving home the whole shared library concept. They can take the hit on higher manufacturing costs of high-capacity carts for the first couple years while memory costs keep decreasing and make it up with Amiibo and/or mobile profits, or something.

 

[Malus]

Well he said he didn't and I hope for his sake he won't get into trouble if he broke some part of the NDA. I know who he is and the studio he works for and have seen the PC version of the game they want to port to the NX, engine support is very important to them. Is it possible this NDA he has was an older one before the update and didn't have certain language the more recent one does? Either way the information he has on engine support didn't really surprise me, but good to know.

I'm surprised there haven't been hordes of people jumping down your throat about this asking for details.

How many blades of grass per square pixel?

 

[Refreshment.01]

You've got to remember that the traditional Japanese gaming audience has a significant preference for physical media over digital downloads, to the point that going digital only with the handheld may hurt its sales in its primary market.

I still think having game carts across the board is the best option for the sake of driving home the whole shared library concept. They can take the hit on higher manufacturing costs of high-capacity carts for the first couple years while memory costs keep decreasing and make it up with Amiibo and/or mobile profits, or something.

Parting from the assumption that both home and mobile devices share the same media...

They could go carts only for example, since the portable would run at a lower resolution than the console you can compress those assets considerably. The Home part of NX could download higher resolution versions of those assets to a mechanical HD or a bigger capacity SSD.

Not saying tis will happen but it's a way to implement it.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Come on, this dick measuring graphics talk is silly. The Wii U sales don't have much to do with power. Slightly better graphics than PS4 will not give the NX automatic success. Why did the 3DS thrash the Vita? Why did the Gamecube fail? Etc etc

Actually the wii u inferior cpu made it look real bad for multiplatform ports with the lower framerates and less things on screen when compared to the 360. I'm sure that affected 3rd party devs and gamers alike to a degree.

 

[Snakeyes]

Parting from the assumption that both home and mobile devices share the same media...

They could go carts only for example, since the portable would run at a lower resolution than the console you can compress those assets considerably. The Home part of NX could download higher resolution versions of those assets to a mechanical HD or a bigger capacity SSD.

Not saying tis will happen but it's a way to implement it.

Yeah, that would also be a good option.

 

[maxcriden]

Thats why they make two systems

What your suggestion would lead to then is a console that has little western appeal and is an afterthought offering slightly bigger experiences that are even more similar to the their handheld siblings than we already have this gen. In that case, why even devote resources to such a system when that would be just the next version of the problems Wii U already has?

At least two Nintendo games a month on average across the platform's lifetime.

I'll echo my previous comments about this. I am concerned that Nintendo will be just as shy about releasing too many games at once or in perceived drier sales periods as they've always been. They usually release 18-20 retail games across both platforms. I am hopeful try will release as many across just one platform, but a bit skeptical they will now release that their evergreen sales patterns may allow them to do do more comfortably than they've practiced in the past. I suppose otherwise my expectation would be 14 or do retail games per year across one console based on their prior wariness.

 

[James Scott]

I think if they can get something around X1 level spec that's probably enough.
Being PS4+ would be ideal but they likely wouldn't need that much power especially if they'll try and focus on a shared library experience it might be overkill. Trying to be in line with the HD twins at a competitive price and the promise of being able to play every Nintendo title they release could do very well
Especially if they can guarantee a lot of exclusives.
If you combine the efforts of 3DS and Wii U in terms of exclusives even just partnered titles like Sonic and Bayonetta it would be an impressive number.

 

[The_Lump]

I think if they can get something around X1 level spec that's probably enough.
Being PS4+ would be ideal but they likely wouldn't need that much power especially if they'll try and focus on a shared library experience it might be overkill. Trying to be in line with the HD twins at a competitive price and the promise of being able to play every Nintendo title they release could do very well

I'm thinking somewhere between the two. An XB1+ would be fine. With the '+' coming from more modern architecture and a much higher memory bandwidth. That alone will at least keep it relevant into the start of next gen

 

[maxcriden]

Same reason people are buying PS4s over Apple TVs or Radeon 390s instead of 370s. There's always people who will pay more to get more. You would be running the "lower-tier" version of NX games. They might want to play the version with 1080p graphics and 60 FPS.

I think part of the idea for NX (at least how I figure): it doesn't matter which hardware device a consumer buys. They just need to make the sale and get them to start buying games.

Firstly, I am in total agreement with your second statement. But let me jump back into the first one. I concur that there will always be people who pay more to get more. But, as it stands right now, Nintendo's handhelds are more popular than their consoles, and the opposite is true for Sony. Ergo, if Vita was more popular than PS4 and its TV peripheral offered the same games as PS4, at a graphics difference only moderately noticeable to the lay consumer, I do think PS4 sales would be much worse. Therefore, I don't think an HDMI out NX portable product will be anything but a way for many more casual lay consumer to opt for that product rather than bother with a console, when Nintendo consoles have little appeal to most console gamers to begin with.

Come on, this dick measuring graphics talk is silly. The Wii U sales don't have much to do with power. Slightly better graphics than PS4 will not give the NX automatic success. Why did the 3DS thrash the Vita? Why did the Gamecube fail? Etc etc

I completely agree. Nintendo's successes have not been built on Playing with Power in a long time. Not XB's last gen, based on popular online infrastructure and mass marketing
of online shooters at a lower price point than its stumbling competitor, either, nor Sony's this current gen based on improved word of mouth by the end of the prior gen in regards to software as well as...again...ironically enough...a stumbling competitor. (FWIW, I think XB1 and PS4 graphics are probably considered very comparable by the lay consumer.)

From Iwata's comments, the initial impression I got was that Nintendo felt that Westerners preferred consoles and Japanese people preferred handhelds, but with rising expectations Nintendo could never support both, and thus would make two devices where scaling content across both of them was possible and relatively painless in an effort to try and satisfy both audiences.

However, I'm not sure what the actually practical implementation ended up being since Iwata likely made these comments when a lot of things about the system(s) were still up in the air given how long ago it was.

It could be like the iPhone/iPad/Apple TV, but just as easily like the Vita/PS3 instead.

Your initial expectation for the NX platform is in line with my own. At this point I'm of the mind that most games will be cross-platform and perhaps a select few may be console only...but similar to N3DS, the extent to high we see console-only games could rely heavily on how well the first few of those sell. That is to say, if Xenoblade 3D had sold better, I suspect we would have seen many more N3DS games. With that said, I think a Vita/PS3 situation would be a serious mistak a constitute the kind of half measure we see now between 3DS and Wii U. Except I suppose it would be a bit worse than the Vita/PS3 situation, because when your handheld is more popular than your console, even fewer resources can be reasonably devoted to those console experiences, and of the NX console is a bust Nintendo loses significant mindshare for future consoles.

(Not to get all Nintendoomed on y'all. I just think if they launch both and the console bombs, it's going to be a more limited product with less focus devoted to it, especially in a situation where most games are not cross-play.)

I wonder how much the Wii U could have been without the tablet controller.

Pricing is a big thing for Nintendo. It's a problem for both handheld and console. 150 handheld would make an extremely affordable device as would 250 for home console. I'm thinking DS/Wii era.

I don't think Nintendo will use expensive technology this time around.

I hope for the same. And not in a stingy way, really, either. I just think anything much more expensive than that is going to represent all the more uphill of a battle for Nintendo.

Why would Nintendo even want to limit thier games to console after all this effort?

I don't see why they would, either, especially since 3DS already offers console-like experiences. It's not like the GBA and prior days where the focus was on handheld games being more compact experiences.

 

[Hermii]

I'm thinking somewhere between the two. An XB1+ would be fine. With the '+' coming from more modern architecture and a much higher memory bandwidth. That alone will at least keep it relevant into the start of next gen

I have a gut feeling the cpu will be a significant step up from the twins. The overcompensation theory. You called our cpu horribly slow? Here is a shitload of cpu performance!

 

[James Scott]

I'm thinking somewhere between the two. An XB1+ would be fine. With the '+' coming from more modern architecture and a much higher memory bandwidth. That alone will at least keep it relevant into the start of next gen

Yeah, I'm not too familiar with actual specs but being more modern with DX12 (equivalent) feature set more ram.
Hope they're looking at any of the new system's short comings to make a more appealing system

 

[Malus]

I hope for the same. And not in a stingy way, really, either. I just think anything much more expensive than that is going to represent all the more uphill of a battle for Nintendo.

I'm still thinking $200/$300.

 

[atbigelow]

Firstly, I am in total agreement with your second statement. But let me jump back into the first one. I concur that there will always be people who pay more to get more. But, as it stands right now, Nintendo's handhelds are more popular than their consoles, and the opposite is true for Sony. Ergo, if Vita was more popular than PS4 and its TV peripheral offered the same games as PS4, at a graphics difference only moderately noticeable to the lay consumer, I do think PS4 sales would be much worse. Therefore, I don't think an HDMI out NX portable product will be anything but a way for many more casual lay consumer to opt for that product rather than bother with a console, when Nintendo consoles have little appeal to most console gamers to begin with.

Cheers. I agree with this. It's definitely some interesting musings on the matter.

I think if Nintendo wants to have more eyes than what they have, they'll need to reclaim some of the "external screen" market. There are definitely a lot of people around who want to play Nintendo games, but don't want to shell out the $300 for a Wii U. Giving them a $100 option to get a taste could work out quite well.

We'll see, though! I do wonder how totally off-base we are here, haha.

 

[Zoon]

I expect the console to be really close to the handheld in terms of power.I believe Nintendo will come and say:"Here are the games,those who want better graphics we will be releasing a SCD(or more) to gain the maximum experience out of them."
Edit: The new slogan should be : Now you are choosing the power.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If we take Iwata literally, then the console will be similar enough in architecture to play the handheld games but not everything necessarily flows identically between them.

But, as Nirolak mentioned, plans can always change.

 

[AzaK]

I think if they can get something around X1 level spec that's probably enough.
Being PS4+ would be ideal but they likely wouldn't need that much power especially if they'll try and focus on a shared library experience it might be overkill. Trying to be in line with the HD twins at a competitive price and the promise of being able to play every Nintendo title they release could do very well
Especially if they can guarantee a lot of exclusives.
If you combine the efforts of 3DS and Wii U in terms of exclusives even just partnered titles like Sonic and Bayonetta it would be an impressive number.

So long as you can augment it with SCDs. I don't want to be stuck with an XB1 level of machine for the next 5 years if I'm buying a new one this year.

 

[10k]

If we take Iwata literally, then the console will be similar enough in architecture to play the handheld games but not everything necessarily flows identically between them.

But, as Nirolak mentioned, plans can always change.

That was my point. The console could run all its games plus the handheld games but the handheld won't be able to run all the console games (but probably will run all Nintendo first party games well enough). It'll be up to third parties if they want to port to the handheld.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Hey guys so I got some updates from the developer, and he has agreed to prove his developer status, here is what he said regarding the possible chance of breaking his NDA also:

Unnamed Developer:

It's possible that I did without realizing it. As I said, I wanted to contact my legal representative before making any official statements. It may very well be that I have accidentally broken my NDA without realizing it since these are pretty complicated documents.

I'd be happy to verify my credentials to them, but at the same time, I'm curious as to the means by which they would do so (without needing my full name and such). I'd have to refrain from actually providing the actual communications with Nintendo (This will definitely violate our NDA with Nintendo). I haven't seen any changes recently, but then again the NDA and all documents I have are from December. I'll contact our Nintendo Account Representative to find out what Rosti is referring to.

He has also provided me with an encrypted email from Nintendo approving his company as certified Wii U developers as well. Again, they don't have the dev kits yet but they are trying to get them and want to port their game which runs on UE4. I have been given permission to share the encrypted email with MOD's in private to prove this information I have been sharing from him.

 

[Peterc]

So long as you can augment it with SCDs. I don't want to be stuck with an XB1 level of machine for the next 5 years if I'm buying a new one this year.

True. For how many years could Nintendo hold this with xbox1 power,while starting from installbase 0.

Only way they can extends this, if they have some sort of addon to upgrade the system

 

[maxcriden]

So long as you can augment it with SCDs. I don't want to be stuck with an XB1 level of machine for the next 5 years if I'm buying a new one this year.

If they can win you back AzakK, they can win anyone back.

 

[Sadist]

Thanks for the post Trevelyan, anything on possible NX discussion is very welcome.

 

[BriareosGAF]

Any reasonable NDA states that discussing the fact that you have signed the NDA is in and of itself a de facto violation, so your buddy should be very careful.

 

[Rösti]

Any reasonable NDA states that discussing the fact that you have signed the NDA is in and of itself a de facto violation, so your buddy should be very careful.

Indeed. I recommend him to go into radio silence.

I suppose he could bring up any questions regarding this on

Spoiler

wtc6ppr3

too, but check with the account representive to begin with.

 

[atbigelow]

Ninja's ready to pounce. Watch LinkedIn for any former devs with NX experience.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Indeed. I recommend him to go into radio silence.

I suppose he could bring up any questions regarding this on

Spoiler

wtc6ppr3

too, but check with the account representive to begin with.

Good advice, I myself have no personal experience with being on an NDA, but at least he doesn't want his name or studio name released to the public.

 

[The_Lump]

[...]

Thanks for sharing and trying to get info, but if this is getting risky for him/her it's really not worth it.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Any reasonable NDA states that discussing the fact that you have signed the NDA is in and of itself a de facto violation, so your buddy should be very careful.

You can't see them so precautions are a moot point.

 

[TLZ]

Ah, yeah. It's not going above PS4 by much if at all.

It's great how you've all turned into Official Nintendo advisors repeating all your opinions of shoulds and shouldn'ts as facts in every Nintendo thread.

This thread was made for what we know about NX and turned into the same old shitty opinions.

I hope this thread gets locked until we get proper info. Or at least create another thread locked for proper info only. I can't be bothered going through a 100 pages of bull****.

 

[The_Lump]

It's great how you've all turned into Official Nintendo advisors repeating all your opinions of shoulds and shouldn'ts as facts in every Nintendo thread.

This thread was made for what we know about NX and turned into the same old shitty opinions.

I hope this thread gets locked until we get proper info. Or at least create another thread locked for proper info only. I can't be bothered going through a 100 pages of bull****.

Easy, complaining about threads is less tolerated than complaining about Nintendo. If you don't like a thread, best thing to do is not post in it so it doesn't get bumped to the front page.

 

[Malus]

1. Nintendo merged their handheld and console systems

Finally read OP and noticed a slight error.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Finally read OP and noticed a slight error.

...

...

...

Ah.

Fixed! XD Thanks!

 

[SuperLeviathan]

I think it is almost a guarantee that the NX portable won't be able to play all the games that the NX console can run.

Maybe not third-party, but there's virtually no first-party game that can't be playable on both anymore.

Pokemon is the main holdout, and that's more Game Freak/TPC's obstinance than any technical incapability.

 

[JayDotZee]

It's great how you've all turned into Official Nintendo advisors repeating all your opinions of shoulds and shouldn'ts as facts in every Nintendo thread.

This thread was made for what we know about NX and turned into the same old shitty opinions.

I hope this thread gets locked until we get proper info. Or at least create another thread locked for proper info only. I can't be bothered going through a 100 pages of bull****.

You may try to steer the conversation on what wrong decisions Sony, Sega, Microsoft or even Atari have made in the past and that Nintendo should avoid.

You are risking to get banned, but at least the thread will be close in a second.

On with the topic: Even if Nintendo has used not so current tech on their last consoles, let's remember that they are not strangers to try something above the "current" (ie, what's available at the moment on other consoles) tech.

I think this is real possibility for the NeXt console. Maybe no leagues above both PS4 and Xbox One, but definitively above.

 

[Joelstinton14]

You've got to remember that the traditional Japanese gaming audience has a significant preference for physical media over digital downloads, to the point that going digital only with the handheld may hurt its sales in its primary market.

I still think having game carts across the board is the best option for the sake of driving home the whole shared library concept. They can take the hit on higher manufacturing costs of high-capacity carts for the first couple years while memory costs keep decreasing and make it up with Amiibo and/or mobile profits, or something.

Interestingly aren't Nintendo releasing a game as an Amiibo in Japan? As in The Amiibo is the game, and it comes with a digital code to download the game? I think it may be the new Mario VS Donkey Kong game.

I wonder if removing the disc drive as suggested by that patent is a way of cutting costs for them and they are exploring other ways to distribute their games. Not only are they saving on the Disc drive in manufacturing costs but also getting rid of what is probably the biggest reliability issue for all manufacturers. And in doing so it negates the costs of their new 'way to play' or a powerful system.

The cart slot is there to offer physical media, but i'm not sure how this will effect third parties wanting to bring there games to the system which tend to use more space. I wonder if Nintendo is seeing that a digital system is now more viable, and in general the general public are comfortable with digital media.

 

[Malus]

Good advice, I myself have no personal experience with being on an NDA, but at least he doesn't want his name or studio name released to the public.

Trev on stream : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuEi2xjLp7g

 

[James Scott]

Maybe not third-party, but there's virtually no first-party game that can't be playable on both anymore.

Pokemon is the main holdout, and that's more Game Freak/TPC's obstinance than any technical incapability.

I'm sure if GF could release it on the console with little effort they'd do so.
I think it's more the likes of mainline Zelda's which probably can't get downgraded to an acceptable degree on the portable.