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Wheres Rey? Insider Says Vendors Removed Star Wars Character to Improve Sales'
- Thread starter Branduil
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Do you guys seriously think Hasbro is doing this to slight women, instead of having a long list of statistics and records that said that Rey would not have sold well? It's like people are imagining some creepy guy at the top with a cigar saying, "Yeah, we could make a lot of money selling a Rey toy, but I like angering women even more than money."
I'm willing to bet they've stuck their neck out before on issues like this and lost money.
I'm willing to bet they've stuck their neck out before on issues like this and lost money.
QuantumZebra
Member
TotalBiscuit was going full-stupid over this too.
Anyone with 2 seconds more attention span would notice that all those Rey toys are jacked up in price because they're sold out everywhere. The $15-20 black series Rey is $30+ there. Not to mention the toys featuring her pale in comparison to supporting characters like Poe.
This isn't even a discussion - Amazon is in fact reflective of the dearth of Rey toys, not evidence of the opposite.
Yes. I say this as someone who remembers what it was like being a child back then as well as someone who has to watch kids growing up inside and outside my family.
I'm not even saying it's our natural state. I actually agree with the hypothesis that marketing has subverted our outlook at these ages. It's not as easy getting other parents to recognize the problem.
Ceallach
Smells like fresh rosebuds
I don't it's malicious. I think it's outdated. I think they are missing modern market research and are unwilling to change.
QuantumZebra
Member
Nobody thinks Hasbro is doing this to spite women - they're doing this because of outdated preconceptions based in gender-divided societal mediums. The idea of "boys toys and girls toys" has been pushed since the late 70's more and more.
Toy companies realized they could sell more toys if parents had to buy a girls version and a boys version (instead of one ball, they now have to buy pink princess ball and blue gi joe ball).
These decisions are being made by ignorant middle-to-older aged dudes who are still running off of these outdated preconceptions.
You wouldn't be wrong in assuming that is the case for the most part - it is definitely however due to marketing and social norms/preconceptions. Girls don't come out of the womb wanting a pink cooking set, and boys don't come out wanting a bearded soldier guy.
On point.
CenturionKei
Banned
Well if I was a kid, id probaly want to buy another Boba Fett action figure, no way would I get a Rey one.
Big Hero 6 too. The merch I've seen should be called Big Hero 4 - No Girls Allowed.
See, when I was a kid, it was a nightmare trying to find a Pink Ranger or April O'Neil figure because, turns out, they're involved in almost every single episode their shows had, but their toys were ridiculous hard to find.
Uhh...the insider is absolutely wrong about Disney Princesses.
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-disney-princess-hasbro/
From the cover article of Bloomberg Business in December
Also, some inconvenient facts
1) The Phase 2 dolls have a crap ton of Rey merch coming. Considering that there is a minimum of one year from prototyping to production (and release) - that means all of the incoming Rey merchandise was already well under production before the "outcry".
2) There's a difference between sold out and not made: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...eatured-in-fewer-toys-than-all-the-new-dudes/
They overestimated Kylo's popularity and underestimated Rey's, but the toys themselves were made.
3) The previous thread on this in OT had star wars licensees actually point out that they were not told of Rey's true role until after the trailer release, which was post phase 1 prototyping.
4) The fact that the Rey figures are coming right as insufficient supply has created an artificial boost in demand, and that they would have had to already had all of this done months before movie release, sort of makes me wonder whether this was more deliberate then we'd like to admit. They'll be able to mark up the Rey toys and make freaking bank.
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-disney-princess-hasbro/
From the cover article of Bloomberg Business in December
Also, some inconvenient facts
1) The Phase 2 dolls have a crap ton of Rey merch coming. Considering that there is a minimum of one year from prototyping to production (and release) - that means all of the incoming Rey merchandise was already well under production before the "outcry".
2) There's a difference between sold out and not made: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...eatured-in-fewer-toys-than-all-the-new-dudes/
They overestimated Kylo's popularity and underestimated Rey's, but the toys themselves were made.
3) The previous thread on this in OT had star wars licensees actually point out that they were not told of Rey's true role until after the trailer release, which was post phase 1 prototyping.
4) The fact that the Rey figures are coming right as insufficient supply has created an artificial boost in demand, and that they would have had to already had all of this done months before movie release, sort of makes me wonder whether this was more deliberate then we'd like to admit. They'll be able to mark up the Rey toys and make freaking bank.
radios shipping overview
Member
Did the people in charge of marketing the toys even watch the movie?
Probably not. There were probably a lot of marketing decisions that had to be made well before they could actually get their hands on the full movie.
Rey toys are hard to find but that doesn't they thought boys don't get toys with a girl on it. It does show you toy manufacturers still have this outdated look on how they see things.
Hence why Widow and Gamora toys were hard to find because they simply made more of Cap and Rocket.
I wouldn't be shocked if the second wave hits with a lot more Rey stuff.
Hence why Widow and Gamora toys were hard to find because they simply made more of Cap and Rocket.
I wouldn't be shocked if the second wave hits with a lot more Rey stuff.
Well in their defense Darth Vader is probably the most popular character in all the franchise and he's the bad guy, so maybe they thought Kylo would be this generation's Vader, I mean the character is good but he's not on Vader's level yet IMO.
That said, why in the world wouldn't you want to market the main lead character of a movie? that is just basic logic, right?
Astral Dog
Member
I see alot of merchantise for the old school characters (Luke, Vader,R2D2 C3PO ,hell one of those desert things with masks) but not ANY for the Force Awakens itself, i almost would say this includes the whole film.
Astral Dog
Member
I mean, no BB8, no Kylo Ren, no Finn, no Phasma. Its like the new characters dont exist.
dreamcastmaster
Banned
This one? Super boring. As a young boy, I had no interest in this figure. I havent seen the new Star Wars movie yet, but the footage I have seen of Rey reminds me of this. Rey is just wearing some cloth and a belt. Looks like a cross between a monk and a leper. Frankly, that design just doesnt strike me as interesting or cool enough for young boys to be interested in.
It was 1980 and I was 6, I had two figures first R2D2 and Princess Leia. I did not care, she was a girl and I played with her the same. In my mind she was one of the goodies and could shoot storm troopers and fight Darth Vader as well as the boys. To be more clear, it was of no consequence that she was a girl and I did not even think about it.
The only Finn I could find was in a big 5-pack of giant action figures that was pretty expensive.
But this is the Philly/SJ area and not rural Arkansas.
"Drake and Porn" sounds like a deluxe edition to some struggling RnB artist album that had to be released on soundcloud
BibiMaghoo
Member
Those companies that made female action figures by the millions in the 80's did so because they wanted to sell them. The Leia figures were not in pretty princess isles in the stores, they were on the shelf with the other figures. They wanted to sell them and could not. They could not because people did not want them. I have seen first hand what you speak of in regards to girls not being allowed 'boys' toys, my partner had to grow up like this and to this day is rightly angry about it, but that is not what has happened here. You can't attribute everyone's actions to social conditioning of sexism, because it's ridiculous. They want to make the most money, so they market to male children. They know this from figures going back before I was born, and possibly you also. You don't get to subvert this reasoning into a social equality issue, because at this point it is business alone. More and more companies are dropping boy and girl labeling altogether, and that stigma of playing with another genders toys (which is stupid even to type) is considerably less of an issue today. They still don't push them as much though do they? Why? Because they know they will not sell in comparable numbers. I'm glad your kids play with male action figures. My son played with male and female action figures. Our children do not represent a businesses market for profit.
You want to make out it's an equality issue rather than a money one, but you don't have anything to support that other than your own social conditioning, which tells you to attribute a business decision to sexism. You forget that these companies WANT everyone's money. They don't want to exclude people, but they also don't want to make things that they cannot sell.
People are taking this "insider" as fact even though they are wrong on key points. Also it seems people in this thread who hasn't followed this whole thing are making big assumptions. I know there is an issue about representation regarding women in merchandising but there really isn't one with Rey. Wave 2 kinda proves this with the release of more figures.
And are people really so shocked that Kylo got a big push as well? His figure is insanely popular. Kids don't care about backstory. They care about a cool looking character with a crazy light saber
And are people really so shocked that Kylo got a big push as well? His figure is insanely popular. Kids don't care about backstory. They care about a cool looking character with a crazy light saber
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
They aren't doing too great with Disney Infinity, at least on the Marvel and Star Wars sides. There are four female Star Wars characters, and only one of them can be bought standalone (Wren from Star Wars Rebels). Marvel-side is even worse with there being only two female characters, Gamora and Black Widow, and neither are sold solo.
This is why Ren is interesting. He is struggling to fill Vader's shoes. He is powerful enough, but he is conflicted
(until the end)
We will get to see him grow parallel to the heroes, unlike Vader who started as a boss, or Maul who is just a scary-faced dancer.
Why do we even have toy execs if they are this fucking stupid? "Boys don't like Girl Action Heroes" isn't a rule of nature, its something you fucking came up with and its something you can throw away just as easily. Give me one of these joker's job - I could do it better and I'd appreciate the big check I'm sure they pull.
Also LOL at moving Kylo Ren figures - at this point of the franchise the character is a joke. Maybe try again after Episode 8 or 9
Also LOL at moving Kylo Ren figures - at this point of the franchise the character is a joke. Maybe try again after Episode 8 or 9
The black series Rey figures were constantly sold out when they were released. I lucked out and found online when target had it in stock.
Just going by the trailers I didn't expect her to have as large a role (I mean Finn got more characterization, but Rey was the fulcrum of the film—I expected it was going to be much more a 50% split kind of deal.)
That said, I don't think the toys are going to be that big a spoiler, and in any case you're there to make money—so have toys ready to meet demand. Even if it was for plot reasons, the powers-that-be were being stupid.
As for trying to focus on gendered toys, I get the economics of it but it feels like at this point toy companies are losing money via the backlash versus the benefits they would have gotten.
brotherbean
Member
Plot spoilers below regarding a certain female storm trooper.
Have we discussed already how the other woman wearing armor and a helmet
is one of the more highly marketed and sought-after figures available?
I mean, she's not in the Monopoly set either,
, but as marketing goes she's a pretty big deal - everything from figures and posters to mugs and tshirts featuring her. No real point I'm trying to make here, just found it fascinating how popular she was/is compared to the main protagonist of the film (trilogy?). I wonder if that's the allure of the helmet/armor compared to an ordinary-looking human character, or if you could draw enough lines to conclude that her non-obvious femininity is a factor in her popularity.
Have we discussed already how the other woman wearing armor and a helmet
who's almost non-existent in the film
I mean, she's not in the Monopoly set either,
and I think it wouldn't make sense for her to be given her relative lack of presence in the movie
Why do we even have toy execs if they are this fucking stupid? "Boys don't like Girl Action Heroes" isn't a rule of nature, its something you fucking came up with and its something you can throw away just as easily. Give me one of these joker's job - I could do it better and I'd appreciate the big check I'm sure they pull.
Also LOL at moving Kylo Ren figures - at this point of the franchise the character is a joke. Maybe try again after Episode 8 or 9
Lol no he isn't. He's a villain with an actual arc. Also most of these toys are aimed at kids. Kids like his design. He's moving merch whether you believe it or not.
Flying Toaster
Member
I am surprised Disney or the marketing company they used screwed up so badly.
Considering they've played this song and dance with Widow and Gamora, I'm not shocked. I am shocked they thought Ren would be the hot seller over Rey, Finn and FUCKING BB8!
BronsonLee
Member
What if I told you they didn't, and this was a calculated sneak attack
Widow and Gamora don't have nearly as many toys or presence in their films as Rey does.
Also Ren definitely sells.
PS shut up anaron
slightconfuse
Banned
don't follow the toy industry but maybe more Rey merch is coming when more people ahve seen the movie? she has a major part in it that is a big spoiler.
why r u obsessed with me
Are these female transformers/visionaries/thundercats engaging characters and worthwhile characters? Are they the main character?
This is far from a "simple fact".
Her being the main character isn't a big spoiler.
Look up market segmentation. If everything is either a Boy Toy or a Girl Toy, families with multiple kids have to buy all new stuff when a new child is born instead of passing down and sharing. Disney feels they have a lock on the Girl Toy market with Princesses, they bought Marvel and Star Wars to try to get a similar lock on the Boy Toy market. But people are resisting the idea that Marvel and Star Wars are For Boys and demanding more.
Whatever is the issue is I look forward to see more Rey's out there.
I got lucky and found a Die Cast Disney Action Figure that was a rebox of Rey with the blue lightsaber. (Which is now currently sitting on my desk shelf staring down Kylo Ren). You want to know how many were there in store...2.
I can't find anything else and the Star Wars stuff is still selling here I check every weekend for anything new and the sections are empty at target where I go and look.
It seem crazy to me that hasbro thought it wouldn't sell at all. Shit I'm a 23 year old man who bought Rey toys and I'm planning on buying even more.
The thing that makes me frustrated is that when I went into my Disney store to look for that figure there was a little girl and a dad who were shopping, the girl was actively searching through all of the action figures for anything with Rey, as was the dad. He managed to find one after a few minutes. Like they shouldn't have to be looking that hard there should be tons of them (like the Kylo Rens and the Phasmas)
I got lucky and found a Die Cast Disney Action Figure that was a rebox of Rey with the blue lightsaber. (Which is now currently sitting on my desk shelf staring down Kylo Ren). You want to know how many were there in store...2.
I can't find anything else and the Star Wars stuff is still selling here I check every weekend for anything new and the sections are empty at target where I go and look.
It seem crazy to me that hasbro thought it wouldn't sell at all. Shit I'm a 23 year old man who bought Rey toys and I'm planning on buying even more.
The thing that makes me frustrated is that when I went into my Disney store to look for that figure there was a little girl and a dad who were shopping, the girl was actively searching through all of the action figures for anything with Rey, as was the dad. He managed to find one after a few minutes. Like they shouldn't have to be looking that hard there should be tons of them (like the Kylo Rens and the Phasmas)
You also have to take into account hoarders and collectors. Rey is a hot item. Resellers will snatch her up in an attempt to sell her at a higher cost. And collectors are always first on the bandwagon.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Know how I know this motherfucker isn't an insider?
I'm not exactly sure that this would fall under Poe's law since regardless of the tone, there didn't need to be any exaggeration or anything.
but yeah I was just mentioning it as a summary of the situation and to point out the obvious catch 22.
To break out of it, either change the perception of whats a girl toy and you'll see girls playing with them or let girls play with non-girl toys and suddenly people will realize they're girl toys too. The difficulty is making it a large scale thing but I'm pretty sure that there's entire fields devoted to that sort of thing *cough* marketing *cough*
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