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[CDX]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/11/whites-earn-more-than-blacks-even-on-ebay/

Race influences how people are treated in subtle – and not-so-subtle – ways. African-Americans are not only more likely to be pulled over by the police, arrested for marijuana use, and incarcerated than whites are. Past studies have shown that African-Americans are also charged more when buying cars, receive fewer letters from their state legislators, and get less extensive medical care.

Now researchers have shown that racial biases also extend to selling things on eBay. In a study published in October by the RAND Journal of Economics, Ian Ayres and Christine Jolls of Yale Law School and Mahzarin Banaji of Harvard looked at how the race of the seller affected 394 auctions of baseball cards on eBay.

Some of the postings were accompanied by a photo of the card held by a light-skinned hand, and some with the card held by a dark-skinned hand, as in the photos above. The study shows that the cards held by an African-American hand sold for around 20 percent less than the cards held by Caucasian sellers.

In addition, the cards that were held by the African-American hand actually ended up being worth more, suggesting they should have sold for more than the other batch. That is, when the researchers added up how much they had originally paid for all of the cards sold by the black hand versus the white hand, the first total was larger.

The effect was also stronger when the baseball card being sold featured a minority player; some bidders placed lower bids for cards depicting African-American players or Hispanic players, all else equal. The researchers also found that cards sold by the African-American seller to bidders living in Zip codes with a higher proportion of white residents sold for less than those sold to blacker Zip codes.

This surprised because I assumed that surely the value of the collectors item in question would be the sole determining factor for ebay bids.

I guess not

 

[Seesaw15]

That why I always wear my Michael Jackson glove when selling things on Ebay.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Disappointingly not surprising.

 

[Slayer-33]

Pictured while black

 

[zeemumu]

I sell everything online under the guise of a skeleton for this reason.

 

[Namikaze]

Wow, so basically don't take any pictures that show that you have a darker skin tone if selling on eBay. Just take pics of the item and leave it at that.

 

[gohepcat]

That is fascinating.

So many of the posts here are appeal to emotion, but these are quantifiable numbers. So how do we fix this?

 

[Bo Knows GAF]

I'm not sold on this, baseball card values are too inconsistent that this could be a thing. Maybe if the study had the sellers sell similar items and test their worth I would believe it but there is no real control for this study to be as accurate as it could be.

 

[theignoramus]

That is fascinating.

So many of the posts here are appeal to emotion, but these are quantifiable numbers. So how do we fix this?

By "not seeing race" and lambasting those that bring up race as the true racists.

 

[rjinaz]

Interesting though I suppose not all that surprising. I do a lot of buying and selling on ebay. Most people, including myself, tend to leave their hands and bodies out of pictures.

 

[harSon]

That is fascinating.

So many of the posts here are appeal to emotion, but these are quantifiable numbers. So how do we fix this?

Admitting that there is a problem is probably a huge first step

 

[WhateverItTakes]

This is bloody insane to think about...

Racial biases are so ingrained its ridiculous

 

[Palmer_v1]

Hey black ebay sellers. For a nominal fee, I will hold stuff with my lilly white hands while you take photos of it.

I was born for this job.

 

[Aske]

I don't understand. You want the card, but you care less about winning the auction because the seller is black...?

We need some racist baseball card collectors in here to explain this phenomenon.

 

[lastflowers]

This is bloody insane to think about...

Racial biases are so ingrained its ridiculous

.

 

[akira28]

duh. this is why we had to buy a mannequin instead of have my mom model her consignment shop stuff. black person wore it? Don't want it.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I don't understand. You want the card, but you care less about winning the auction because the seller is black...?

We need some racist baseball card collectors in here to explain this phenomenon.

People don't even know they're racist, that's the scary thing. They probably don't notice the hand holding the cards at all but the buyer has subconsciously registered something as being 'off'.

 

[Skeyser]

I don't understand. You want the card, but you care less about winning the auction because the seller is black...?

We need some racist baseball card collectors in here to explain this phenomenon.

My best guess is that they're afraid that the seller being black will make it more likely to be scammed. Pretty gross.

 

[ajim]

I didn't even notice the difference in racial colour witj the hands until I read the article.

*shrugs*

 

[akira28]

I didn't even notice the difference in racial colour witj the hands until I read the article.

*shrugs*

congrats on not seeing race your "one of the good ones" membership hat will arrive via Amazon drone sometime in the middle of January. There's a bit of a blacklog you see. you can still log in to the OTGO website and print out your wallet sized membership card.

 

[Darknight]

As a seller, I never try to hold the items. I try to center them on something and take some pics.

If you think your skin color will play a role on your item, dont try to include your hand/self in there? I know its a messed up issue but if you want the most money, you'll do what you must to get it. Or wear a glove to make it seem you are handling it with "care" lol.

Edit: I forgot to add, when buying something, I look at rating and time of account only.

 

[Nonoriri]

I didn't even notice the difference in racial colour witj the hands until I read the article.

*shrugs*

One of the good guys right here.

 

[zou]

Is the pdf available anywhere? would like to know if they accounted for other possible factors (account age, description, category, title, bin/start price, auction length etc.).

 

[akira28]

Is the pdf available anywhere? would like to know if they accounted for other possible factors (account age, description, category, title, bin/start price, auction length etc.).

won't matter. racism is quantum locked. As soon as you think you've drilled down into all of the data and finally found proof....poof.

 

[noquarter]

Eh, from what is posted here and you can read for free I'm not sure the researchers understand the baseball card market or eBay as much as they think.

In addition, the cards that were held by the African-American hand actually ended up being worth more, suggesting they should have sold for more than the other batch. That is, when the researchers added up how much they had originally paid for all of the cards sold by the black hand versus the white hand, the first total was larger.

Just cause they paid more doesn't mean the cards were worth more. They could have very easily overpaid. Especially when the average price is around $6, since they say $0.90 is the 20% difference. Also in the pictures they show they have a graded card in white hands and don't show graded cards in any of the black hands.

The effect was also stronger when the baseball card being sold featured a minority player; some bidders placed lower bids for cards depicting African-American players or Hispanic players, all else equal. The researchers also found that cards sold by the African-American seller to bidders living in Zip codes with a higher proportion of white residents sold for less than those sold to blacker Zip codes.

I dint understand how all factors could be equal and saying that race of player made a difference. They can't have a black Wade Boggs card or a white Frank Thomas card to show this and just leads me to think they don't understand the market at all.

The zip code thing also just goes to show that people with lower income can't spend as much on baseball cards. It did reflect a problem in America though so they have that.

Wish they would have done this with something that you could easily show all that is different was who was holding it such as gift cards or copies of games and movies.

 

[potam]

I just don't even understand how this works (I'm assuming the study took into account any outside factors that could affect the price).

Like, if people are bidding on an item, that would tell me they're competing against other collectors. So do all the collectors come to the same conclusion that the card is worth less due to its being held by a black hand?

I'm not trying to deny that there is racial bias involved, but I think it's more interesting that a group of individuals somehow came to the conclusion that the cards are worth less, and they're actively hurting themselves (by not outbidding someone else for the card, which apparently is worth more than the current price). I just don't understand how that actually works.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Group economics can fix this just like it can fix everything else. I'm sure there are plenty of Blacks that use eBay. How many of those blacks go outta of their way to find and support black sellers or even black business in general?

 

[Durock]

I don't see much merit to this unless the items had been exactly the same. How can you make such a judgement with two different products being sold? Maybe the buyers just simply preferred the other cards? Doesn't mean there any racial bias here.

Now again, if the cards were literally the exact same cards in both listings, that would be a different story...

 

[Lucumo]

Why would your hand/arm be on the picture in the first place? Put the item on the table and just take a photo?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Why would your hand/arm be on the picture in the first place? Put the item on the table and just take a photo?

Ugh.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Disappointingly not surprising.

Not really disappointing at all tbh. Races have always went out of their way to support their people (especially whites who I'm assuming make up the majority of buyers in eBay).

Wow, so basically don't take any pictures that show that you have a darker skin tone of selling on eBay. Just take pics of the item and leave it at that.

Nah, there is probably enough blacks consumers on eBay looking go buy just about anything. Those blacks just need to go out if there way to purchase from black sellers.

That is fascinating.

So many of the posts here are appeal to emotion, but these are quantifiable numbers. So how do we fix this?

We fix it buying telling blacks to support their race economically the same way every other race does.

I don't understand. You want the card, but you care less about winning the auction because the seller is black...?

We need some racist baseball card collectors in here to explain this phenomenon.

Group economics, you don't really want to give your money to someone of another race unless you have absolutely have to.

 

[Mushroomer25]

That is fascinating.

So many of the posts here are appeal to emotion, but these are quantifiable numbers. So how do we fix this?

The issue is, you can't really adress subtle racism like this head on - because people refuse to believe they're complacent to it. They'll insist data like this is 'skewed', or 'insubstantial' - or if they admit it as fact, but only applies to other people.

You really only solve unconcious racism like this though years of cultural assimilation.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I didn't even notice the difference in racial colour witj the hands until I read the article.

*shrugs*

I bet if you asked the buyers, they'll say the same thing.

As a seller, I never try to hold the items. I try to center them on something and take some pics.

If you think your skin color will play a role on your item, dont try to include your hand/self in there? I know its a messed up issue but if you want the most money, you'll do what you must to get it. Or wear a glove to make it seem you are handling it with "care" lol.

Edit: I forgot to add, when buying something, I look at rating and time of account only.

As above, I'd be willing to bet that the 'racist' buyers will swear they didn't notice the colour of the hand holding the baseball cards and I'd completely believe them. Hardly anyone will look at a listing and make a conscious decision to make a lower bid because there's a black hand in shot.

It's just another example of how deep racism goes and the problem with these studies is that people are so reluctant to believe that racism is such a problem that they'll make dozens of different excuses as to why this study doesn't really prove anything. Just like the study before that showed a racial bias didn't prove anything, or the study before that, or any of the hundreds of other studies. They're all one-off studies, totally independent from each other that don't REALLY prove society still has a huge problem with race.

Just like the next study of this type won't really have any merit. Or the study after that.

Racism was ended once and for all when America elected a Muslim president and people need to stop playing the race card, it's political correctness gone mad.

The zip code thing also just goes to show that people with lower income can't spend as much on baseball cards. It did reflect a problem in America though so they have that.

In your rush to tell us why this study ain't shit, you've misunderstood the point about the zip codes. They're saying that when it was a black seller, buyers from white neighbourhoods paid less than buyers from black areas.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

The issue is, you can't really adress subtle racism like this head on - because people refuse to believe they're complacent to it. They'll insist data like this is 'skewed', or 'insubstantial' - or if they admit it as fact, but only applies to other people.

You really only solve unconcious racism like this though years of cultural assimilation.

I don't like the way this sounds. I would rather see minorities go out of their way to support their races economically(edit: and they do for the most part. The only race of people that are late to the party en masse are blacks. Blacks are the only race in America that aren't practicing stuff like this so they are aways going to suffer in business situations like these).

 

[ryutaro's mama]

You really only solve unconcious racism like this though years of cultural assimilation.

And based on centuries old systems that affect jobs, schools and housing, people can continue to obliviously structure their lives so that cultural integration never happens for them and when it does, it's limited and non-intrusive.

 

[akira28]

The issue is, you can't really adress subtle racism like this head on - because people refuse to believe they're complacent to it. They'll insist data like this is 'skewed', or 'insubstantial' - or if they admit it as fact, but only applies to other people.

You really only solve unconcious racism like this though years of cultural assimilation.

well, going on 400+ years and so far its been really slow.

 

[Crud]

Admitting that there is a problem is probably a huge first step

Yup.

The people benefiting from it all seem to never want to take the first step.

 

[noquarter]

I don't see much merit to this unless the items had been exactly the same. How can you make such a judgement with two different products being sold? Maybe the buyers just simply preferred the other cards? Doesn't mean there any racial bias here.

Now again, if the cards were literally the exact same cards in both listings, that would be a different story...

There is no way to have exactly the same card which is why any collectible like this is dumb to use. There will always be a corner that is not as perfect in one as it is in the other or the centering will be off, maybe one doesn't appear as glossy as the other or maybe the picture is just different enough that one looks a little more faded. Even two cards with the same grades will be different and collectors each value something else over what other collectors might look for.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

well, going on 400+ years and so far its been really slow.

Which is why Separatism will solve a lot of problems that blacks go through(especially situations like these). After 4 centuries, you would think that blacks would wake up and accept the fact that complete assimilation with Whites is a pipe dream but nope.

 

[akira28]

Which is why Separatism will solve a lot of problems that blacks go through(especially situations like these).

didn't work then back when they had the support of the US government, won't work like that today either.

 

[noquarter]

In your rush to tell us why this study ain't shit, you've misunderstood the point about the zip codes. They're saying that when it was a black seller, buyers from white neighbourhoods paid less than buyers from black areas.

I wasn't rushing to point out that this study wasn't shit, just looked for what they did, read what was free and put out there why I think the study was flawed. My apologies for upsetting you, but you could see that I did offer a way to make this same type of study less flawed since it does seem to be one of the better ways to point this out to a majority of people. Will say that no matter what using a collectible is the worst way to try to prove anything like this though.

And thank you for explaining what they were trying to say about the zip codes.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Yup.

The people benefiting from it all seem to never want to take the first step.

Why would anyone in a position of power want to take that first step? Did you ever read that exercise on the privilege regarding placement of students and asking them to toss it into a trash can in the front of the room?

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/3Bsf7

This is why it is impossible to make inroads. The privileged are oblivious to their privilege.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

didn't work then back when they had the support of the US government, won't work like that today either.

Back when who had the support from the US government???

 

[James93]

There are way to many variables to draw conclusions. Plus this 20% was 90 cents, far within a price range on ebay.

 

[akira28]

Back when who had the support from the US government???

post civil war America tried many different projects to divest themselves of their former involuntary labor force. Settlements in Africa and South America or where every they could send them on a one way boat trip (not many places really). Separatism was given as a convincing point, you can do better in your own nations than you can in a country where you're so hated. Of course once they were gone, "fuck em." Treaties? Trade agreements? Sustainability for this cockamamie social project you came up with?

nah breh. none of that. go back to Africa.

 

[BIGWORM]

I'm just glad I have an un-assuming first name that I can put on my resume:

Brian.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Hey black ebay sellers. For a nominal fee, I will hold stuff with my lilly white hands while you take photos of it.

I was born for this job.

I have beige hands and will only charge 10%

 

[CDX]

I don't see much merit to this unless the items had been exactly the same. How can you make such a judgement with two different products being sold? Maybe the buyers just simply preferred the other cards? Doesn't mean there any racial bias here.

Now again, if the cards were literally the exact same cards in both listings, that would be a different story...

http://www.*****************/scienc...ernet-customers-likely-buy-black-sellers.html

Yeah, it's craigslist and not ebay, and it's a d-a-i-l-y-m-a-i-l link, I know, but it's all I could find with a quick google search

Alternate link http://bit.do/bBKgP

Shoppers are more likely to buy a product advertised from an online classified advert if they think the seller is white, a new study suggests.
A year-long experiment examining the sales of iPods on Craigslist in the U.S. revealed racial bias as black sellers did worse than their white counterparts
The research showed that black sellers got fewer responses and lower offers for their iPods, while shoppers were also less attracted to white sellers with tattoos on their wrists.


U.S. researchers posted 1,200 classified adverts in over 300 areas of the U.S. between March 2009 and March 2010, to test for racial bias among buyers by featuring similar photos of the iPod held by a man’s hand that was wither black, white or white with a wrist tattoo.


The experiment found black sellers receive 13 per cent fewer responses, 18 per cent fewer offers and the money offered was 12 per cent lower than that offered to a white seller.
White sellers with wrist tattoos were found to have similar responses and offers.
In the study, published in the Economic Journal of the Royal Economic Society, buyers interacting with black sellers behaved in ways that suggested they trusted them less.
They were 17 per cent less likely to include their names, 44 per cent likely to agree to a proposed delivery by mail and 56 per cent more likely to express concern about making a long distance payment.
Professor Jennifer Doleac, assistant professor of public policy and economics at Virginia University, said: ‘We were really struck to find as much racial discrimination as we did.’

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

post civil war America tried many different projects to divest themselves of their former involuntary labor force. Settlements in Africa and South America or where every they could send them on a one way boat trip (not many places really).

In guessing they must have changed their minds or something. The government did everything in their power during the civil rights era to make sure Separatism didn't happen. Instead of allowing us to(en masse) build a nation for ourselves or return back home, they brought back slavery (shouts out to CIA drug trafficking and the prison industrial complex tho😎&#128076, had the FBI destroy any Separatism movement(while labeling then terrorists and hate groups) and did everything in their power to make us second class citizens. It seems like America really does want us around, they just want us to be second class citizens.

 

[Slayven]

Not shocking there been dozens of studies shown people blue screen when shown dark skin.

It is a cultural and social issue.