Who wants Nintendo to fail?
- Thread starter missAran
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Drensch said:
Eyetoy? I admit, it is a little gimmicky and still has a ways to go, IMO, to become something legitimate, but its a little piece of where the industry as a whole could be headed. I highly doubt the DS "touch" sensibility will survive past its current incarnation and even if it does, it will stay within the portable realm. However, the technology the Eyetoy takes advantage of has been something predicted with the industry to eventually become a legitimate way of controlling games in future consoles. The tech is primitive at this point and uses only a basic webcam, but the intention is there.
All anybody seems to look forward to is sequel XYZ? From a mainstream point of view, you may be right, but from a real "gamer's" point of view, there are tons of things to look forward to, like the Nippon Ichi SRPGs, ICO and Wanda and the Colossus, Katamari Damacy, Shin Megami Tensei games, and so on. These aren't series that the mainstream is known to look forward to, but there's enough variety for actual gamers in general and a literal plethora of new games/franchises to go around. Hell, when we see GTA 10 in 15-20 years, you might have a point. But Nintendo, with few exceptions, continues to pull from the same franchises it established like 20 years ago.
Yes, Sony's stable of games is getting much better. Sony doesn't develop too many of its own games, but a lot of its 2nd party/close 3rd party friends do, and they publish them. Stuff like R&C/Jak/ICO/Ape Escape/etc. are proof enough for me that Sony has come a long way.
And moving forward means, well, moving forward. It means ACTUAL TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESSION and a tendency to change with the times and recognize changes in the consumer base. MS forged ahead with Xbox Live and a lot of horsepower under the hood. A capable developer can create something golden out of this combination, the fact is that many just haven't. Sony's PSP isn't a half-baked idea and, complications or not, it shows their intentions to push the portable market farther than has ever gone before.
Nintendo is content just sitting all by itself and not budging for the world. This is a very bull-headed attitude in a constantly changing market and, luckily for them, there are some bull-headed gamers there to support it. Actually, I should take that back. This is the IMAGE that Nintendo likes to portray. I'm tired of their "we're not competing with Sony and MS, but we really are" kind of attitude. They act like their doing all fine and dandy as they are and then they have Reggie up there doing the song-and-dance on how much Revolution is going to crush the competition. I mean, WTF?
Catchpenny
Member
Belfast said:
Oh, give me a break. By the same reasoning, DS touch sensibility is the early incarnation of a virtual reality setup that allows you to directly interact with objects, grabbing them with your hand and feeling the texture.
Bluemercury
Member
To resume it all:With the arrival of Xbox it seems that the the hating Nintendo attitude has increased greatly, now the war objective between the "real gamers" is who hates Nintendo more and which company is the coolest one.......even tought they(Nintendo) still produce some of the best games but who care's its Nintendo.....
Catchpenny
Member
Minotauro said:
Then you're also hoping Sony or Microsoft drop out, right? One console is cheaper than two.
:cue Drinky Crow
Monk said:
it's great that more ppl know what crap OOT was. A travesty of epic proportions compared to games like link to the past and adventure games in general. If the game wasnt named zelda and some other company released it no one would care! But it was from nintendo so the fanboys came out in droves and couldn't help but call that piece of garbage the best game of all time.
Now that nintendo has less fans I am glad to see GameCube not being all that popular amongst serious gamers. All nintendo does anymore is rehash after rehash. Mario Tennis? Mario Golf?? Mario Hodge Podge?? How much of this trash should we accept? Where are the innovative titles? Where is the creativity?? Hey look here comes Mario Party 15 with new mini games! New ways to twist your finger! Awesome!
Nintendo needs new management. Those 95 year old geezers are losing it. They used to make some trully decent games. These days I'd be weary to touch anything they made recently with the exception of mario sunshine and paper mario 2. Seems like perhaps the only real fun games they made in a long while. That is if paper mario 2 is even fun to begin with.
radioheadrule83 said:
Exactly. And this brings up the question to all those that want to see Nintendo fail/go 3rd party: If you aren't buying their games now, would you buy their "kiddy" titles on the PS2/XBox?? Would you buy Mario Sunshine on the PS2 or Mario Power Tennis on the XBox?? For those that wouldn't buy any of their titles, why the hell are you so hellbent on seeing Nintendo fail?
I get the feeling that some of the "hate" that most seem to dish out is just to rile people up more than anything.
It's also ironic that after the EA thread about them buying the NFL licenses and people screaming "Competition is good for the industry" are the same ones that sit here and want to see 1 out of the 3 fail. Hypocritical.
There's no logical reason why ANYBODY (who's not a Sony or Microsoft exec) would want a great game company like Nintendo to fail. If you don't like their games, fine. Don't play them. To me, and many others, Nintendo makes the games I love to play. It's not really that hard to understand why "OMG HE LIKES/SUPPORTS A COMPANY LOL!!" when you realize that company houses some of the greatest developer working in the industry. And it's not incomprehensible to admire and support people who create games you love. It's very, very simple.
From this thread I'd say easily the 'Nintendo haters' are more annoying really.
PC Gaijin said:
From this thread I'd say easily the 'Nintendo haters' are more annoying really.
I'd say catchpenny addressed the double standard on the Ds.
More double standards for Nintendo. Nintendo using franchises is a bad thing. There have been 7 Super Mario games in 20+ years. Jak/Rachet/GT/ GTA etc have managed 3 or so separate sequels in 5 years, yep, Nintendo relies on their IP more than anyone. There are far more egregious milkers of IP than Nintendo. And I think you also hold 3rd parties to a different standard. Nintendo themselves have created several great new games/ip this generation: Animal Drossing*, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness etc. And there have been great 3rd party games too: VJ, Namco Rpgs, Crystal Chronicles. Not as many as Ps2, that isn't really the point.
Double standard. The Cube and Ds aren't moves forward? The wavebird isn't a move forward? The psp isn't some sort of innovation, it's more silicon. That's been happening forever. The Xbox is a lot of expensive components thrown together, that somehow makes it a progression? I can see Xbox live as a program that is a well done. How are any of Nintendo's tech any differnt than what Sony or MS have done? Casing color?
More double standards for Nintendo. Nintendo using franchises is a bad thing. There have been 7 Super Mario games in 20+ years. Jak/Rachet/GT/ GTA etc have managed 3 or so separate sequels in 5 years, yep, Nintendo relies on their IP more than anyone. There are far more egregious milkers of IP than Nintendo. And I think you also hold 3rd parties to a different standard. Nintendo themselves have created several great new games/ip this generation: Animal Drossing*, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness etc. And there have been great 3rd party games too: VJ, Namco Rpgs, Crystal Chronicles. Not as many as Ps2, that isn't really the point.
I won't dispute that, then again the release stuff like Syphon Filter and their sports games. However to claim that Nintendo is negligably better, that's nuts.
Double standard. The Cube and Ds aren't moves forward? The wavebird isn't a move forward? The psp isn't some sort of innovation, it's more silicon. That's been happening forever. The Xbox is a lot of expensive components thrown together, that somehow makes it a progression? I can see Xbox live as a program that is a well done. How are any of Nintendo's tech any differnt than what Sony or MS have done? Casing color?
Pure marketing speak, just like :
Catchpenny
Member
PC Gaijin said:
So all Sega games, Xbox games and Treasure games are shipping with a deadly airbourne virus inside the case now?
adam20 said:
CONGRATULATION! You have discovered Babelfish-Age!
The anti-nintendo people post more than the supposed evil fanboys. Most of those fanboys have been run off or beaten into submission. The anti-nintendo sentiment being based on fanboys is a fantasy world of the past. The general makeup of the board is A: A lot of Sega refugees still holding on to the 16 bit battles, B: PC gamers who don't even understand what console gaming is about and C: Playstation Gen people who love their Square and Kojima. Throw in the people who just like to pile on and you got most of the board.
It's not a Nintendo audience. The wishing for 3rd party or failure for Nintendo is bad due to the fact there is no game company hardware maker, but they'll just ignore it. They will pretend not to care that much about a hobby they spend so much time around. They may be bothered by what EA is doing or what happened to POP2, but don't count on them to try to stop it. Perhaps the media and fans could keep the game industry from turning into the music industry, keep it from becoming just another pop culture sewage dump.... but I think they'd rather just laugh and be lazy.
It's not a Nintendo audience. The wishing for 3rd party or failure for Nintendo is bad due to the fact there is no game company hardware maker, but they'll just ignore it. They will pretend not to care that much about a hobby they spend so much time around. They may be bothered by what EA is doing or what happened to POP2, but don't count on them to try to stop it. Perhaps the media and fans could keep the game industry from turning into the music industry, keep it from becoming just another pop culture sewage dump.... but I think they'd rather just laugh and be lazy.
that's is more true than people wants to believe.Chrono said:From this thread I'd say easily the 'Nintendo haters' are more annoying really.
I love the idea of PSP as much as NDS (and I'll be getting a PSP when it's launched in the US), but for some funny reason NDS is D003D even it already sold millions worldwide.
Nintendo are ok,but I really don't care for most their franchises that much anymore. I spend most my gaming money on the other two consoles,I am drawn to a larger selection of 3rd party content and online gaming more than anythig these days. The only hostility I sometimes feel is towards their annoying fanbase. Just accept what has happend and enjoy the games. Noone cares how loud you speak.
wobedraggled
Banned
Bite the hand that feeds you...
With out Nintendo this industry would be nothing, but now it's cool to hate them....
The industry is goin down the toilet and will soon be run by Sony/MS and EA
There is no rhyme or reason, just hype for crap that makes it seem cooler than it really is.
I'm just gonna enjoy them as long as I can and when they are gone I will stop gaming.
With out Nintendo this industry would be nothing, but now it's cool to hate them....
The industry is goin down the toilet and will soon be run by Sony/MS and EA
There is no rhyme or reason, just hype for crap that makes it seem cooler than it really is.
I'm just gonna enjoy them as long as I can and when they are gone I will stop gaming.
etiolate said:
It's too late for that. Games are pop culture now. They're as mainstream as Eminem, Friends, and any other pop culture reference that you wish to add.
Gamers who've been playing since the NES and before no longer make up the majority of game buyers. Today's average gamer buys the stuff that he (or she) knows. The more licenses, the better. These "new gamers" inject a ton of money into this business and publishers need to cater to them in order to keep a decent bottom line.
The Sega mentality of trying new things only sealed their fate when they failed to recognize that the landscape had changed.
I'm willing to accept this current direction, provided that we still do get occasional nuggets of brilliance aside from the crap. Look at Katamari Damacy, for example. Who'd have thought that we'd see that game here in the US? I certainly never thought I'd see Mad Maestro or Mister Mosquito here either, but it happened (and Eidos took quite a hit on that experiment). I can take the good with the bad, and the in-between.
michael000
Banned
I'd like to see nintendo bought out by microsoft, ea, or sony.
wobedraggled
Banned
Dram said:
Gaming is going to shit, it's becoming too goddamn manistream (now we get a john signleton game?!!?!) all the little creative devs get bought out, sucked dry and dumped like a useless carcass.
You bet your ass I will...
Sure, you could get games like Katamari or Alien Hominid in the future. Indie Devs like Indie labels, except games are getting quite expensive to make. So any of those games and they're sequels will be small in scope. Small little changes here and there, that will get tiresome eventually. You won't ever see great big games like that and it's rather sad. Most of the companies that will do that are struggling. Nintendo is a company that would give a game like that a big scope.
And the good, the bad and the inbetween... is becoming about 70% inbetween, 20% bad and 10% good it feels like. The inbetween, games that amuse me for about a week are becoming a standard. Games aren't aging well, and I don't just mean graphically. Who would want to mess with a Tomb Raider game and its controls these days? It's fast food software.
SantaC
Member
etiolate said:
It is the truth. The anti-Nintendo posters make more noise than the Nintendo fanboys do. I for example gets excited for Zelda, Metroid RE4 etc, but what's wrong with that? My console of preference is foremost Nintendo, but I do enjoy games on other systems such Final Fantasy, metal gear, castlevania, Tales etc. I have no need to bash Sony and MS.
Sho Nuff said:
But Nintendo is still very good when it comes to actual gameplay. Or is raw power the only important thing now?
DJPS2 said:
And PS2 or Xbox fanboys aren't?
I don't want Nintendo to fail because I'm tired of all the me-too crap that plagues the other two consoles this gen. I appreciate the fact that Nintendo continues to do their own thing, not catering to the general public who think that Spike TV's Videogame Awards is quality television.
Belfast said:
How exactly? By offering games that fall between the PS1/PS2 level of graphics? Games that could just as easily be offered on the PS2?
I love the PSP, but I wouldn't complain if these games were on the PS2. At least I wouldn't have to spill some $$ for yet another piece of gaming hardware.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Spike said:
Can you play PlayStation 2 games on the go ?
Are those games all quick and straight ports of PlayStation 2 games ?
Is the PSP just limited to playing games ?
How about bitching for all the GBA games which required you to buy the GBA or the GB Player even though they could have been easily made for GameCube ?
Panajev2001a said:
No, but these aren't exactly PS2-level games.
No, they could be done better on the PS2.
No, and now, neither is the GBA.
Actually, I have. I've never liked the idea of portable systems. Taking Nintendo as an example, since you mention them thinking I'm trying to defend them, all their GBA games should have been on the Cube. Instead of splitting their teams working on 2 systems, they should have focused on just one system and expanding that library.
I know that you'll probably say that some of the games probably wouldn't have been made, but the sure-fire ones like Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars and so on most likely would have.
The Guivre
Member
Nintendo is a name that strikes a chord with most any gamer. Those who're fans of Nintendo, defenders of Nintendo and what not seem to view it as their aging dog (not saying Nintendo is a dog or such). When your dog gets older, you still love him like you did when you were a kid and he was a puppy, but now people aren't as enamored with him, he doesn't do tricks, or runs around, perhaps he even smells a bit. But it's YOUR dog, and you won't have anyone criticize it, even if it is at least in part true.
Analogy aside Nintendo has taken some losses. This gen the GC faltered. The old franchises returned, some good and other's less than impressive. Metroid Prime (good) Mario Power Tennis (ehh...) such things have already been discussed in this thread and others though.
The GBA was a solid success. The DS has yet to be determined.
Innovation - This is a sore subject with Nintendo fans and haters alike. The fans will tell you that Nintendo is blazing a new path towards the future of gaming. The detractors will tell you that a stylus is a silly thing not really intended for gaming input. I'd question the whole innovation thing, sure it's a neccesary part of advancing the industry but it does involve risk, some are just more willing to take it than others. I'm not surprised Nintendo is often mentioned or tauted as being the real innovater out of the trio of Sony MS and Nintendo, if you think about it, they're the laggers in many ways this gen, so why not take some risks?
In the end this thread isn't very useful in solving arguements and what not, since the Nintendo supporters certainly won't cease their support, and the detractors aren't about to stop criticizing. It just shows flaws, failings and strengths in whatever company or game is the subject of attention.
Analogy aside Nintendo has taken some losses. This gen the GC faltered. The old franchises returned, some good and other's less than impressive. Metroid Prime (good) Mario Power Tennis (ehh...) such things have already been discussed in this thread and others though.
The GBA was a solid success. The DS has yet to be determined.
Innovation - This is a sore subject with Nintendo fans and haters alike. The fans will tell you that Nintendo is blazing a new path towards the future of gaming. The detractors will tell you that a stylus is a silly thing not really intended for gaming input. I'd question the whole innovation thing, sure it's a neccesary part of advancing the industry but it does involve risk, some are just more willing to take it than others. I'm not surprised Nintendo is often mentioned or tauted as being the real innovater out of the trio of Sony MS and Nintendo, if you think about it, they're the laggers in many ways this gen, so why not take some risks?
In the end this thread isn't very useful in solving arguements and what not, since the Nintendo supporters certainly won't cease their support, and the detractors aren't about to stop criticizing. It just shows flaws, failings and strengths in whatever company or game is the subject of attention.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Spike said:No, but these aren't exactly PS2-level games.
Ah... we are now playing with words... define how RRV is superior to Ridge Racers please though.
So could all GBA and GB games.
Oh yeah, I forgot the GBA Video packs... sorry, but I think Memory Stick support + sexy XMB GUI being able to let you play your own MP3/ATRAC3/ATRAC3+/MPEG4/JPEG files at no cost (getting the Value pack or at a small fixed cost by purchasing your own Memory Stick) kinda topples the GBA offering.
Okay then, we cannot really agree on any middle ground then
.Drensch said:
7 Mario games? Christ. If you're speaking about platofrmers, you might be close.
Let's see:
Donkey Kong
Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 2 (JP)/Lost Levels
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Land
Super Mario Land 2
Super Mario World
Super Mario All-Stars
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario 64 DS
Super Mario Advance
Super Mario Advance 2
Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario Advance 4
Super Mario Bros. DX
Some of these are rehashes with minor updates/upgrades, but people sure do like to eat them up, so they count just as well.
And once again, that's *just* platformers. I might've even forgot one or two. There are tons of other games which feature Mario characters as the main draw:
Super Mario RPG
Paper Mario
Paper Mario 2
Mario and Luigi
Wrecking Crew
Mario Party 1
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6
Dr. Mario
Dr. Mario 64
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario Kart 64
Super Mario Kart: Double Dash
Mario Paint
Mario is Missing!
Mario's Time Machine
Mario's Tennis
Mario Power Tennis
Mario's Picross
Mario Golf
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Mario Golf: Advance Tour
Mario Tennis
DK 94
Mario vs DK
Mario Pinball Land
Mario Party Advance
Mario Baseball
New Super Mario Bros.
Mario Kart DS
And this does not count the various other crap like Mario Teaches Typing and the Game & Watch stuff. Then there's spinoffs with Wario, Luigi, etc.
Animal Crossing is from the N64 era. I'll give you Pikmin. Eternal Darkness was middling at best, especially once the "wow" factor of the sanity effects wore off. VJ started on the GC, but its now multi-platform. Namco RPGs...you get Baten Kaitos, Tales games have been around for much longer. Crystal Chronicles...well, we probably just shouldn't talk about that game. The point IS that PS2 has more quality games and a wider variety and DOESN'T just rely on the same 5-6 franchises over again.
Nintendo still has a standard of quality in their games, yes, but Sony has caught up so much, that that difference IS negligible. You can't sit there and say "well, at least Nintendo still has their first party" anymore, because many of these games are just as good. Not perfect, but much better than they were at the beginning of the PS1's life cycle.
The DS and GC aren't moving forward, comparitively. The GC seems to be there merely to keep them in the race. The DS, as I've said, is the same touchscreen tech we've seen for years. The wavebird is nice, but we've had wireless controllers before that, this one is just first party.
And if you can quote a press release where my "marketing speak" came from, you might have a point.
I would say the people who want Nintendo to fail the most are the insecure xbox lovers who can't handle how a console less powerful, purple and has a handle is keeping pace with their big black box.
Mostly. You don't read multi-console owners / ps2 owners bashing xbox. Its always the xbox crowd and they're a lot more virulent than any of the other console owners.
But then this is almost the start of 2005, get over your fanboyism and collect them all. No reason to be a single console owner in this day and age.
Mostly. You don't read multi-console owners / ps2 owners bashing xbox. Its always the xbox crowd and they're a lot more virulent than any of the other console owners.
But then this is almost the start of 2005, get over your fanboyism and collect them all. No reason to be a single console owner in this day and age.
Catchpenny
Member
Belfast said:
No. Could you do that with a touch screen eventually? Sure, if you had some gloves to hook into the hardware that would provide you with some sort of feedback.
Uh, yes? Not with your whole hand, but you can grab objects on the screen with your finger and "carry" them about.
Whereas Sony invented the first ever webcam!
If Eyetoy is the future and the DS a gimmick, why have there only been about half a dozen games or so for Eyetoy in a year? Why isn't Sony supporting Eyetoy to the extent that Nintendo is supporting the DS? Why are third parties throwing far more support behind the DS? Why are there nothing but mini-games for Eyetoy, whereas you can control much deeper games with the DS, even without using the d-pad?
Sure, the Eyetoy is an add-on, but it's an add-on to what will likely be the most popular system ever. Analog control received universal industry and consumer support when it was added to the PSOne midway through its life. If the Eyetoy were really such a promising device, it would receive similar support.
Nintendo uses Mario in different genres and games to push sales through recognizable characters. EA does the same exact thing with licenses. Why people mostly only complain about Nintendo doing it, I don't know. I'd rather have different games with familiar characters than 20 billion military shooters.
Catchpenny said:
I didn't say it was the future, but it *could* be. Right now it sure isn't much more than a gimmick, but I can't see the DS becoming the standard for future control AT ALL. Later iterations of the Eyetoy could be the future, that's what I'm getting at. And even if it looks like a webcam and can even be used like one with the right software, the Eyetoy's primary function is NOT to act as a webcam. Compared to the touchscreen AND the eyetoy, standard controller input is still the best. Besides, the DS relies on the touchscreen as the lynchpin of its appeal. The eyetoy is merely an accessory. But you can really only cite the eyetoy in Sony's history. Nintendo has had more and multiple egregious failures and gimmicks over the years. And the DS relies almost solely on mini-games so far, which is really sad when that's the best you can say about a system. VIVA LA MINIGAME REVOLUCION!
Also, dragging something with a stylus is NOT grabbing it with your hand. Its about the equivalent of dragging and dropping something on your PC desktop with a mouse.
actually if you read DS's spec carefully you'll see that touchscreen is NOT the only extra on the system. There's wireless, WiFi, Voice input, it is up to developers to make use of them.Belfast said:
And in case you havn't tried, Metroid (FPS) with touchscreen's pretty tight, it's not just limited to mini games.
soundwave05
Member
I will say this about Nintendo ... they do seem to bring in a lot of kids and newcomers into the industry.
And why that's important, well just look at the arcade business. Sega/Namco/Capcom etc. looked great in the mid-1990s there, but the problem was they weren't bringing in younger players. They kept making the same "cool" racing/shooting/fighting games, however eventually the fanbase for these games got older and wouldn't go to the arcades anymore.
But young kids who were now getting into their teens didn't grow up with arcades so that business has fizzled big time.
The Game Boy is the first game machine for a lot of kids, and gets them hooked on gaming, and that's kind of important because 5-8 years down the line, they're going to be the ones who are the core audience in this business, not us.
And why that's important, well just look at the arcade business. Sega/Namco/Capcom etc. looked great in the mid-1990s there, but the problem was they weren't bringing in younger players. They kept making the same "cool" racing/shooting/fighting games, however eventually the fanbase for these games got older and wouldn't go to the arcades anymore.
But young kids who were now getting into their teens didn't grow up with arcades so that business has fizzled big time.
The Game Boy is the first game machine for a lot of kids, and gets them hooked on gaming, and that's kind of important because 5-8 years down the line, they're going to be the ones who are the core audience in this business, not us.