Do The Mario
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah too much metroid this gen, but people are not obligated to buy it!
Why Did Mario Stop Being About the Platforming?
- Thread starter Do The Mario
- Start date
Nintendo has ruined Mario and Miyamoto, plain and simple.
Nintendo is all about revolutions, but they suck at them. Most of them are evolutions, and bad ones at that.
They should pull a Sega, but Nintendo style. Meaning they should put out their "rehashes" and sell boatloads, while simultaneously pumping out 2 or 3 highly unique games per year. People want variety, evolutions and revolutions. You need to just look at PS2 to see this. Great 1st (or 2nd, depending on how you look at it) and 3rd party games, complete with good rehashes, good derivatives, and good sequels, with plenty of uniqueness to boot (Ico, Wanda, Rez, Katamari, etc). Sure, you get your trash too, but people want options.
Nintendo is trying to tell us what we want. Basically, we don't want to be told, we just want to play and be entertained.
I've had more fun being a completionist in the Ratchet and Clank series, than I've had on any Mario game in years. There are too many un-fun things in Mario these days and there's too little character in the games. Ratchet and Clank has character in spades (cutscenes, animation, voice acting, music, Clank, weapons, etc). Everything has a touch to it that makes it feel part of the R&C universe. But if you really look, R&C just borrows liberally from tons of great, old games. R&C2's platforming gameplay-wise (to me) is a lot like a 3d Mario and Megaman all rolled into one. The mini-games are all well done but ripped off. Wipeout, Starfox, etc. The other nice thing about the series is that it kills the annoying parts of platformers. You get infinite lives and lots of continue points. Everything can be skipped, and watched again later. The map system shows exactly where you've been and what you may have missed. The easter eggs all have fair clues. I can upgrade myself and make things easier if it's too hard by just fighting more. Basically, R&C is platforming refined.
That's what Mario needs back. Take Mario, the enemies, the levels, the ideas, and bring it back. Get rid of stupid blue coins, get rid of unskippable cutscenes, get rid of limited lives and doing entire stages over again. Give Mario a voice (any voice, even if it's Yamauchi himself!), put the platforming elements back, give him a locking fire-flower (Ratchet has auto locking weapons, so should Mario). Don't make it a shoot-a-thon, but give Mario a few options.
But most of all, give him and his enemies some aggression and some character. Make them come alive. You can't do that anymore if they're mute. These are cartoon characters that deserve cartoon voices and a whimsical presentation because:
Disney rule #1 - Do not make your movies longer than 90minutes, children have low attention spans.
And since kids don't have attention spans, and adults don't have time or patience they need to stop forcing us to sit around waiting for things to happen. Nintendo gives us a fine dinner but doesn't give me any meat or potatoes. I can keep going but I'll stop here.
Nintendo is all about revolutions, but they suck at them. Most of them are evolutions, and bad ones at that.
They should pull a Sega, but Nintendo style. Meaning they should put out their "rehashes" and sell boatloads, while simultaneously pumping out 2 or 3 highly unique games per year. People want variety, evolutions and revolutions. You need to just look at PS2 to see this. Great 1st (or 2nd, depending on how you look at it) and 3rd party games, complete with good rehashes, good derivatives, and good sequels, with plenty of uniqueness to boot (Ico, Wanda, Rez, Katamari, etc). Sure, you get your trash too, but people want options.
Nintendo is trying to tell us what we want. Basically, we don't want to be told, we just want to play and be entertained.
I've had more fun being a completionist in the Ratchet and Clank series, than I've had on any Mario game in years. There are too many un-fun things in Mario these days and there's too little character in the games. Ratchet and Clank has character in spades (cutscenes, animation, voice acting, music, Clank, weapons, etc). Everything has a touch to it that makes it feel part of the R&C universe. But if you really look, R&C just borrows liberally from tons of great, old games. R&C2's platforming gameplay-wise (to me) is a lot like a 3d Mario and Megaman all rolled into one. The mini-games are all well done but ripped off. Wipeout, Starfox, etc. The other nice thing about the series is that it kills the annoying parts of platformers. You get infinite lives and lots of continue points. Everything can be skipped, and watched again later. The map system shows exactly where you've been and what you may have missed. The easter eggs all have fair clues. I can upgrade myself and make things easier if it's too hard by just fighting more. Basically, R&C is platforming refined.
That's what Mario needs back. Take Mario, the enemies, the levels, the ideas, and bring it back. Get rid of stupid blue coins, get rid of unskippable cutscenes, get rid of limited lives and doing entire stages over again. Give Mario a voice (any voice, even if it's Yamauchi himself!), put the platforming elements back, give him a locking fire-flower (Ratchet has auto locking weapons, so should Mario). Don't make it a shoot-a-thon, but give Mario a few options.
But most of all, give him and his enemies some aggression and some character. Make them come alive. You can't do that anymore if they're mute. These are cartoon characters that deserve cartoon voices and a whimsical presentation because:
Disney rule #1 - Do not make your movies longer than 90minutes, children have low attention spans.
And since kids don't have attention spans, and adults don't have time or patience they need to stop forcing us to sit around waiting for things to happen. Nintendo gives us a fine dinner but doesn't give me any meat or potatoes. I can keep going but I'll stop here.
I forgot how much fun platforming was. Mario2 will always be my favorite Mario, followed closely by the godly Mario3 and then SMW. Mario3 is the first game that became a real pop icon. Well, maybe Pacman, but Mario3 had so much hype around it, and such a good marketing campaign that it's hard to beat. I only played Mario64 briefly, but Mario Sunshine was a collectathon. I didn't realize it until I read people complaining about it. But as entertaining as the game may be, there's really no platforming to it. Was Mario64 like that too? Then again, how do you do good platforming in 3D? I haven't enjoyed a 3D platformer yet, the camera is a real weakness. Spot shadows help, but you simply can't have the same level of precision that you do in a 2D platformer. We've all played levels of Mario where we'd fly through from beginning to end, d-pad pressed firmly to the right the entire way with no let-up. Good times those were. But I'd be amazed if any game could bring back those days in 3D. It's a difficult task. PEACE.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I'm not the biggest Mario 64 fan in the world, but there was some very difficult areas in the game that required very precise and careful platforming skills(I remember the level 'Tick Tock Clock' was a very good example). Mario Sunshine on the other hand didn't seem very platform oriented at all. Of course, giving Mario the "hovering" ability probably wasn't a good idea either.
TheTurtleTitan
Member
I think Mario Sunshine is the big reason for Mario's downfall for two reasons:
1) It just plain sucked compared to Mario 64 and the other platformers (few say it's better than Mario 64)
2) Who the hell is going to buy a game with "Sunshine" in the title?
Bad game + Childish name = DOWNFALL
1) It just plain sucked compared to Mario 64 and the other platformers (few say it's better than Mario 64)
2) Who the hell is going to buy a game with "Sunshine" in the title?
Bad game + Childish name = DOWNFALL
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
TheTurtleTitan said:
This is why Mario 128's official name will be: Super Mario's CAGE OF DEATH
And the box art will have Mario performing a back-breaker hold on Bowser, who coughs up blood and dies. It will be teh mature.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Bah, you could call it Mario's Thumb Sucking Tour and if it had the same charm as the older titles it would sell in spades.
Miyamoto's best years as a designer may be behind him, maybe video game artists are much like rock stars having a limited window of true creative fertility. It might be ridiculous to assume there's anyone at Nintendo to take over such a mantle and make as good games.
Miyamoto's best years as a designer may be behind him, maybe video game artists are much like rock stars having a limited window of true creative fertility. It might be ridiculous to assume there's anyone at Nintendo to take over such a mantle and make as good games.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Skimming entire threads isn't a very nice practice, but I just wanna say:
I would love a Mario platformer in the vain of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Bit more cel-shading... full adaptation of that lovable Paper Mario style art would be nice actually.
There can be room for both 2d and 3d Mario platforming games... and I agree that they've probably diluted the mostachio'd one's power by making him appear in so much. They should really lay off a bit of it for a while. Nintendo games always come great after a little sabbatical: see Zelda/Metroid
I would love a Mario platformer in the vain of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Bit more cel-shading... full adaptation of that lovable Paper Mario style art would be nice actually.
There can be room for both 2d and 3d Mario platforming games... and I agree that they've probably diluted the mostachio'd one's power by making him appear in so much. They should really lay off a bit of it for a while. Nintendo games always come great after a little sabbatical: see Zelda/Metroid
Kabuki Waq
Member
Iw ish someone would release MArio Allstars for GC with MArio 64 and teh much worse SMS included.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I must be one of the few people who preferred SMS over SM64. SM64 had that intangible feeling you get with a Mario get, but SMS had those old school platforming levels that kicked the ass out of anything SM64 had to offer. To this day, I occasionally go back to Sunshine just to play through the levels where Mario's without his jetpack, but I very rarely play SM64 (a fact that may be reversed once I pick up a DS).
I liked SMS at the beginning, but then it became boooring. 
Oh, before I forget it:
http://forum.just-cubed.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=532&sid=
Oh, before I forget it:
http://forum.just-cubed.de/attachment.php?attachmentid=532&sid=
I dunno what it is, but I like Mario better these days when he's in RPG form. I want to see Mario's platforming adventures be as warped as the Paper Mario/Mario and Luigi RPGs. Mario has such a rich history that is now ripe for sarcasm and parody, which is what the RPGs seem to use to their advantage in various ways.
Do The Mario
Unconfirmed Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
Yes people agree in the thread those old school Platforming sections were pure gold! Its the dull lack of true Platforming action in the regular levels that people dont like, Flood made the game too easy wow I missed a jump better just hover back.
Flood also is a cause of mundane cleaning up tasks that Mario isnt about. Dont get me wrong its a fun game but its not traditional Mario.
Do The Mario
Unconfirmed Member
Foobar said:
Yeah I Need to get Paper Mario 2 but I am half way into Morrowind GOTY:ED and KOTOR 2 is a month away in Australia. I Think I will pick it up after KOTOR 2 maybe just before.
I also wanted to play KOTOR the week leading up to KOTOR 2s release so it doesnt leave me much time with my copy of Street Fighter: AC on the way, Samurai warriors, Burnout 3 and soul Caliber 2 to keep me busy!
GRRR, thank god I am on Uni holidays and all I do is go to Bars/Nightclubs, Movies and play games (maybe go jogging)! Working one full day a week at $20 a hour cash!
But Paper Mario 2 looks so dam charming!