Nightengale
Member
Kentaro Motomura,also produced Soul Sacrifice.
why dId Sony abandon all of their first party RPG ips?
- Thread starter ReaperXL7
- Start date
Kentaro Motomura,also produced Soul Sacrifice.
I don't even know how large is the JRPG fanbase sometime.
The sales data always suggested that JRPG is in the niche range of gaming genre or right up there with the millions salers. WRPG is always big due to the West purchasing power and preference.
And as a whole, the RPG genre is up there with the FPS MP shooters genre, probably bigger if you include MMORPG.
So if Sony somehow creates a game by using the correct RPG elements from its sub-genre trees, it could be bigger than Skyrim or even Destiny.
The sales data always suggested that JRPG is in the niche range of gaming genre or right up there with the millions salers. WRPG is always big due to the West purchasing power and preference.
And as a whole, the RPG genre is up there with the FPS MP shooters genre, probably bigger if you include MMORPG.
So if Sony somehow creates a game by using the correct RPG elements from its sub-genre trees, it could be bigger than Skyrim or even Destiny.
John Bender
Banned
No, they didn't!
The media did that. Sony didn't.
This is what does make me sad. RPGs have always been my favorite growing up (starting with Chrono Trigger and FFIII). I had always loved my playstation cause it's where I knew all the RPGS / JRPGS would be going, but lately they're just all on the handhelds (DS / Vita).
There was a thread somewhere here on gaf about final fantasy and why it always has to go "overboard" on the graphics and just release a slight "lesser" graphically focused game and come out a lot more often.
I know there's the rumor about the new rpg coming out to rival FF and such but I hope we see a lot more of them. right now the only console rpg I always look forward to is the tales of series. = /
There was a thread somewhere here on gaf about final fantasy and why it always has to go "overboard" on the graphics and just release a slight "lesser" graphically focused game and come out a lot more often.
I know there's the rumor about the new rpg coming out to rival FF and such but I hope we see a lot more of them. right now the only console rpg I always look forward to is the tales of series. = /
JuanLatino
Member
Verendus do you have any new Informations about the FF7 Remake? The last time you saw it, it was in the planning stages. And you also said that Sony Japan would help out on that game (PS4 Exclusive)
He talked a few times about these games. Even these days
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134071082&postcount=1066
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134075783&postcount=1125
I enjoyed the first game quite a bit, I will readily admit though that the most unique thing about it was its combat system. I always found it really fascinating how it incorporated fighting game combo mechanics into a turn based rpg battle system. I still enjoy it, but it's visuals (like many 3D ps1 games) have aged pretty poorly.
I said that there'll be more DQ, that doesn't exclude DQXI. It just means there are plans beyond just getting one title.
Nothing to add. And I've never said Sony is helping them, or that its exclusive to my recollection.
WAR recon zero
Banned
I tried legend of The dragoon and legaia on that time. They looked dated even then.
I think The critical praise was biased because they where first party rpgs. I don't think they were particularly good...
Opinion
I think The critical praise was biased because they where first party rpgs. I don't think they were particularly good...
Opinion
jackissocool
Member
You say 3 platformers including LBP and Tearaway. Then you say Sly 5, which is obviously coming based on logic. Did you just forget Ratchet or was Sly a cruel Red Herring?
Also what about Gravity Rush 2?
JuanLatino
Member
Time to get my wallet ready for DQ8 HD.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
Is there any particular reason why the folks at SCEJ don't have a few small teams or even some sub-contracted devs making modestly budgeted JRPGs like Wild Arms and Arc the Lad for the PS Vita?
The system seems to sell relatively well over there and with PS4 crossbuy you could help to maybe bring some folks to the PS4 without a major investment in development, especially since these are series that have never been massive budget projects anyway.
It seems like it would just be a smart move to create a more diverse catalog, keep Vita sales robust, help boost PS4 sales a bit, maintain the market presence of some IPs, and take advantage of what seems to be an under served market segment.
The system seems to sell relatively well over there and with PS4 crossbuy you could help to maybe bring some folks to the PS4 without a major investment in development, especially since these are series that have never been massive budget projects anyway.
It seems like it would just be a smart move to create a more diverse catalog, keep Vita sales robust, help boost PS4 sales a bit, maintain the market presence of some IPs, and take advantage of what seems to be an under served market segment.
jackissocool
Member
Nightengale
Member
Because those IPs bombed.
And said games have always been sub-contracted. With the exception of Legend of Dragoon, Sony's JRPG efforts are all collaboration efforts with external devs.
MoogleWizard
Member
Because JRPGs apart from Final Fantasy are not big sellers (anymore?). Most of those franchises were bottom tier anyway when it comes to JRPGs. I remember liking Wild Arms though, but Legend of Dragoon and Dark Cloud in particular were snoozefests. Never played Arc the Lad.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
What game is this?
Here ya go
Leafhopper
Banned
Not enough generic 20 to 40 year old white guys to base it around.
Seriously though, it pisses me off that I haven't seen a Wild Arms games in a long time. Either way Sony's first party studios is more like a movie company now. You got your AAA cinematic experiences and first party indie looking experiences.
Then their are the games they make in the same genre to attempt to compete with some other thing.
Sony Pictures has more variety in what they have been backing then first party games.
That's me though, I know they have some other stuff, just nothing I get excited about usually. Like the Hardware usually.
Seriously though, it pisses me off that I haven't seen a Wild Arms games in a long time. Either way Sony's first party studios is more like a movie company now. You got your AAA cinematic experiences and first party indie looking experiences.
Then their are the games they make in the same genre to attempt to compete with some other thing.
Sony Pictures has more variety in what they have been backing then first party games.
That's me though, I know they have some other stuff, just nothing I get excited about usually. Like the Hardware usually.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
It disappointing for sure, but I'll give them some time to show otherwise this gen. I have faith that first party console JRPGs from Sony aren't completely dead.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
What?
It's Oreshika: Tainted Bloodlines
I'd say it Arc the Lad was a moderate success; maybe not as successful as Wild Arms but definitely more successful than most other RPG's in Sony's lineup.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
PD - racing sim
Evolution - arcade to mix of arcade/sim
Naughty Dog - 3rd person action adventure shooter, 3rd person action adventure survivor shooter
Sony Bend - 3rd persn action adventure shooter, first-person shooter
Sucker Punch - 3rd person action adventure
Studio Japan - platformers, adventure and RPGs
SSM - action game
GG - first-person shooter, & now wRPG
SCE London - party/family games
San Diego - sports game (baseball)
Media Molecule - platformers
2nd party published games:
Sumo Studios - platformers
insomniac - platformers
sanzaru games - platformers
tequila works - platformer
housemarque - side-scroller shot-em-up
quantic dreams - interactive adventures
ready at dawn - 3rd person action adventure shooter
Off the top of my head. They have a large variety of games, maybe just not your cup of tea. They have more 3rd person action adventure shooter games you mentioned as well as platformers, something that is sorely lacking in today's market. If GG's new wRPG isn't a souless game that has an interesting story and characters for once in their lifetime and is successful, Sony really only lacks behind in the jRPG department if we don't focus on the 2nd party support they get from Japan. This is where I wish Japan Studios would take over but we'll see.
Moral of the story: I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about other than being wrong.
That's only because that's all Sony offered. They dropped a LOT of series that were on the PS2, that made it a well rounded system, when the PS3 launched.
I've always disliked that about Sony. Many of the series that made me a fan of the PS2 just disappeared. Hell Legend of Legaia, Legend of Dragoon, Arc the Lad and the Dark Cloud series were some of my favorites series on the PS2. The bulk of my collection on the PS2 are RPGs or games similar to them and those listed were included. Those series along with the Suikoden series from Konami are what are responsible for removing Final Fantasy from the position it once held with me prior to Final Fantasy 13. The only one I didn't really get into was the Wild Arms series.
Leafhopper
Banned
The part you bolded is what they care about really.
I guess that's it. The variety in that list is mostly dominated by platformers and shooters.
That was needed, sure.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
5 teams focus primarily on platformers (4 being 2nd party/published) & 3 on action adventure 3rd person shooters out of 18 studios. Nintendo has been relying on the exact same franchises every single generation and Microsoft's last 3-4 years relied on 3 franchises. Sony might not make games you like, but they are by far the team with the most variety. So yes, it is needed to state that you're wrong. Or should they be all exactly diverse with each genre having exactly 2 of each? You have absolutely no viable argument or a sensible point here.
This idea of Sony being the cinematic 3rd person action adventure argument is weird since it's essentially Naughty Dog dominating in this genre and this in turn is incorrectly being compared with Sony's first party studios as a whole.
Totally forgot about FROM being jRPG, I'm surprised souls gaf hasn't attacked me yet. :|
FF7 remake: sells 2m units, below expectations. Most hardcore gamers were born around when ff7 came out.
Secret jrpg: 80/100 game due to developers my having the talent, experience and vision to make one that can really shake things up. 1.5m sales, and Sony never makes another one.
Brawler: because playstation battle royale worked out so well? 77/100, sells like junk, on ps+ six months after release. Again, a lack of talent and vision (or unwilling to straight up copy smash).
Sega/Sony game: very mixed output from sega. Not hopeful.
Sega/capcom: same.
Sony needs to get their existing franchises up to scratch quality wise. Let killzone die, since gamers aren't that interested. Push more mid-budget titles on the ps4, like some srpgs, puzzle games, etc that can be made relatively cheaply. Redistribute talent to kill mediocre franchises and invest in volume of tightly budgeted 86/100 titles, many dlc. Use the storefront better and the ps4 feed. Etc, etc.
Seriously, they are so, so slow with making these changes and some of their investment in games really confuses me. They make so many 2m games, they either need to make those with less money or invest it to make 5m games. Their online and digital platform is likewise incredibly sluggish in execution speed and poor in execution quality. They need to speed it up.
IAmRandom31
Banned
And thats pure BS too.
What cinematic games have they made at WWS overall?
Uncharted. The Order. The Last of Us.
Anything else?
3 franchises out of the the dozens they make each generation. Yet you think that is all they care about. May want to actually go and look at WWS and what they make. And even then, 1 is an actual franchise and the others are just single titles to this point.
You know brawler does not mean fighter. It's a beat em up game. Final fight/fighting force/double dragon type of games.
Don't games like Bravely Default prove you don't have to make jrpgs have $100 million dollar budgets with ultra graphics to be successful? Why can't they make jrpgs of say, PS2 quality except maybe in 1080p? Why do they have to sink so many extra dollars in super textures/modeling/etc
I'd be more than happy to play a slew of new PS2-quality jrpgs
I'd be more than happy to play a slew of new PS2-quality jrpgs
JuanLatino
Member
This. It's all Sony's fault.
For PS2, they had a ton of series available (& much more than RPG's):
Ape Escape 2 & 3
PaRappa The Rapper 2
Fantavision
Jak & Daxter
ICO
Shadow of the Colossus
Dark Cloud 1 & 2
Arc the Lad games
Primal
Syphon Filter
Wild Arms
The Mark of Kri
I can go on & on. What happened to those IP's?
In a perfect word
Sega capcom games are skies of Arcadia and dragon's godma
But alas
I think a few of these can be explained really easily
-Ico and Shadow of the Colossus: This is fairly obvious, you can blame the development of the Last Guardian as to why there haven't been any other Team Ico games
-Jak and Daxter: Naughty Dog are past the IP as it currently is. It's not impossible though
-Mark of Kri, Syphon Filter and Primal: Unfortunately the devs for each of these have been put to the side (and for a good while now) to work on other games (like MLB and the portable Uncharted games)
The others are a bit more conjectural
-FantaVision: This was done by SSM before they hit it big with GoW so it's unsurprising that they haven't gone back to this in all honesty
-PaRappa 2: IIRC it just didn't end up being successful enough to continue the franchise
-Dark Cloud 1 and 2: This thread provides some good reasons as to why it might have been abandoned though I'd also that, between White Knight Chronicles (another PS RPG by the same devs) and Youkai Watch, we may not be seeing further Level 5-Playstation RPG's
-Arc the Lad: This was a shame but to be completely honest, I feel that Disgaea has pretty much covered the SRPG niche left behind by AtL. Besides that, the series seemed to already be winding down in the PS2 era (compared to the IP during the PS1) and between the change of developers, setting and eventually the gameplay, it seemed like they were just phoning the games/basically just using the Arc the Lad name to make some easy money.
The only absences that are really baffling are Ape Escape and Wild Arms. The attention they got during the PS2 era was pretty big and to see both of them drop off so quickly with the PS3 is kind of ridiculous.
I don't know what articles you've been reading but last time it was talked about, PSBR was considered to have sold quite well. Besides that, if the series can sell that much when it's considered to be riddled with problems, having "a lack of talent and vision" and is generally believed to have a weak backing, I'd say it'd easily do far better if Sony were to put a really strong effort behind it.
Nose Master
Member
A lot of those series didn't age great. LoL and LoD especially. I love those games, but come on. I'm not really jonesing for the Golden Axe: Beast Rider version of these. Just leave them alone.
The plot in every series you list is garbage, too. They were good because of unique mechanics, that's all. They could toss those same mechanics in a new RPG and it could be the spiritual successor, they don't need to make LoL3. (Was there a 3? I only remember the two.)
The plot in every series you list is garbage, too. They were good because of unique mechanics, that's all. They could toss those same mechanics in a new RPG and it could be the spiritual successor, they don't need to make LoL3. (Was there a 3? I only remember the two.)
lol
Bravely Default did an excellent job capturing the old school FF spirit and charm, I had a blast playing it and am looking forward to the sequel, but 1)it's on a handheld and 2)I don't think it sold more than 1M units worldwide. I think people, or at least I, want Sony to make a great JRPG with amazing modern graphics.
Square-Enix were the publisher with Tri-Ace on dev duties.
I'd love to see a Level-5 HD collection, Rogue Galaxy, Dark Cloud, Dark Chronicle <3
Well White Knight Chronicles were published and funded by Sony.
sixteen-bit
Member
killzone chronicles
IIRC besides White Knight Chronicles, there was Jeanne D'Arc for PSP (depending on the date you'd start the past gen at) and Ore no Shikabane wo Koete Yuke (aka Oreshika 1 remake for PSP). If we're counting Folklore (an ARPG) then there was also Demon's Souls. I think that's about it.
If we write off Japanese sales, I don't think there's a single JRPG not named Final Fantasy that would have made a profit with that dev budget. And Final Fantasy had a far bigger advertising push for its relaunch with 7 than $100m could pay for today.
They could gun for Bioware or Bethesda instead, but Bioware's fortunes seem to be receding and Bethesda's trying their hardest to shift from "RPGs" to "first-person action with stat treadmills and dialog".
Cornbread78
Member
That1BlackGuy
Member
White Knight Chronicles had a lot of potential if only Sony stuck with it, the first games laid the groundwork and they could've tightened up and expanded on it.
DannyDanger
Member
I think it would be better served as a
Full on turn-based your party on one side the enemy on the other side
or
Full on action rpg
That middle ground they tried to be in was so bad. It's a shame because Dark Cloud and Rouge Galaxy's action oriented systems were perfect