Why Did The PS3 Fail?

Speevy said:
And...the only platform with momentum is the Wii.

The 360 hasn't had any sort of momentum since it launched.
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Wii has the best hardware install momentum, yes. Software-wise, it has massive potential, but until third parties can successfully appeal to the userbase who has only made a relative few big sellers, X360 will still be the best place to sell big budget console games.
 
Speevy said:
What if a game takes X months to finish on 360, X+2 months to finish on PS3.
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What if it takes X+(6+) months to finish on PS3 without any watering down while with these 6 months you could just release a DLC to milk more money?
 
Deku said:
I would argue that's precisely what is wrong. The false economies Microsoft created really hurt Sony in their long term strategic planning and positioning. They could have won this race easily by putting out a $300 PS3 with a modest spec increase over the PS2, hae the console be HD/SD compatible, with a focus towards inclusiveness of all gamers. They basically signed over most of the market to Nintendo in their attempt to win in the technical category.

Hindsight is 20/20 but it could be argued the PS3 failed to meet Sony's objectives the minute they decided to fight the 360 head on.
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Maybe I don't read enough GAF but I haven't seen this idea of how Sony could have approached this better explored much. I see lots of 'haha $600!' but not enough suggesting of viable alternatives. Take a bow!

Anyway, your scenario rings true to me. An alternate-universe PS3 that offered a solid, noticeable improvement in gfx over PS2/GCN/Xbox, including a jump to 720p as standard, but no BR, low price, broadband/Live-like service and some fresh gimmicks (SIXAXIS, EyeToy, HOME, downloadables), and an easier platform to develop for, and a nice price...they'd have hurt MS badly and made the Wii a lot less interesting to many. The hardest of the hardcore would still have gone for a 360 but most would have been happy with the lower price and the trusted brand. And they could probably have forced MS to sell at a loss instead of a profit by not going nuts on the h/w specs (no BR or HDD) and manufacturing it themselves at high volume. If they got to market first and established themselves as lead SKU, you'd see a lot of late ports on 360 that don't take advantage of the superior graphical h/w instead of (arguably) the opposite phenomenon. Instead, Sony're getting killed in both casual AND hardcore markets, taking a beating on price and alienating developers and early adopters.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Why bother with a PS3 edition for most games if most can't even sell enough on the platform to justify the cost of getting up to speed and staying competent with dealing with PS3's very unique complexity? Unless you're a Madden or other big seller, what's the point of pressing a disc for PS3?
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What is this 'very unique complexity'? The PS3 has a PowerPC chip and an Nvidia graphics chip. There's precious little 'very unique' about that, if that's all you want to code to.

It's certainly easier to get something up and running on the PS3 than it was on the PS2, FFS.
 
jonabbey said:
What is this 'very unique complexity'? The PS3 has a PowerPC chip and an Nvidia graphics chip. There's precious little 'very unique' about that, if that's all you want to code to.

It's certainly easier to get something up and running on the PS3 than it was on the PS2, FFS.
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PS3 still needs specialized effort compared to X360 based on plenty of developer accounts, though not everyone seems to see it as a big deal. It's not outrageously different, but different enough that it gets plenty of play on the subject of development issues for quite a few studios as evidenced by still recent talk. Any big budget game, I gather, will need more than just the PPU and the RSX to run. UE3 is still an issue on PS3 for some studios, it seems and that is a widely used software base. To say that the PS3 does not have a unique complexity is to call many developers that have expressed that sentiment full of shit. Again, not all developers seem to have the same issues.
 
Blame! said:
i'll tell you why sony is losing the console war.

games. they need more games NOW not LATER.

nobody buys a console purely based on its potential or its 'raw power'

instant gratigfication is where its at. even if the ps3 was selling at 399 but it lacked the games and 3rd party support, it still wont outsell xbox 360.
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Discounting future utility is completely normal, calling it "instant gratification" cheapens the fact that it's perfectly rational consumer behavior.
Economists use the concept when prioritizing how a finite amount of money should be spent to address global challenges, such as AIDS and global warming.

Future games are less valuable for multiple reasons. A console could potentially die off before they are ever made. Low sales for the console could reduce the number of future games. The quality of the future games is unknown.
What makes the situation worse in this case is the fact that the PS3 is really expensive at the moment, but is 100% guaranteed to be cheaper in the future. So if those future games DO materialize in an acceptable quantity and quality, one can always just purchase a PS3 at that time.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
PS3 still needs specialized effort compared to X360 based on plenty of developer accounts, though not everyone seems to see it as a big deal. It's not outrageously different, but different enough that it gets plenty of play on the subject of development issues for quite a few studios as evidenced by still recent talk. Any big budget game, I gather, will need more than just the PPU and the RSX to run. UE3 is still an issue on PS3 for some studios, it seems and that is a widely used software base. To say that the PS3 does not have a unique complexity is to call many developers that have expressed that sentiment full of shit. Again, not all developers seem to have the same issues.
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Will epic's focus on UT3 be a large step towards PS3 skus not being difficult to develop for third parties(using UE3 obviously) or is it something that will only help epic?
 
Grayman said:
Will epic's focus on UT3 be a large step towards PS3 skus not being difficult to develop for third parties(using UE3 obviously) or is it something that will only help epic?
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Probably both, though I think it would be more in favor of Epic. I just don't see UTIII selling especially well on consoles, but the timed exclusivity on consoles of the PS3 version might make a difference. In the end, Epic has to get UE3 ironed out for any platform it targets it for if they want to keep their middleware business healthy.
 
TEH-CJ said:
2. It was the 1st party games that destroyed the competetion
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Absolutely not. The success of both PS1 and PS2 was due to third parties. Nintendo has more million sellers on the GC than Sony has on the PS2 despite the massive difference in userbase.
 
Jokeropia said:
Absolutely not. The success of both PS1 and PS2 was due to third parties.
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Nope. The biggest selling game on those two consoles (those who drew the consumers to the platforms) were from 1st/2nd parties and EXCLUSIVE 3rd parties games. Nintendo deliver around the same quantity of EXCLUSIVE games for their own consoles. That's why they can do relatively well without any big third party help.
 
I can't believe this thread is still going. The PS3 hasn't even been out a year yet in NA or Europe.
 
So does anybody know what that white egg-shaped Sony-branded thing was that Jon_Danger posted as an attempt to claim Sony's supreme victory (before he was banned) is? I still can't figure it out.
 
Vic said:
Nope. The biggest selling game on those two consoles (those who drew the consumers to the platforms) were from 1st/2nd parties and EXCLUSIVE 3rd parties games. Nintendo deliver around the same quantity of EXCLUSIVE games for their own consoles. That's why they can do relatively well without any big third party help.
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What made you think I didn't include the exclusive third parties when I said "third parties"? Those games are at the core of this issue since lots of third party exclusives on the PS2 did not transfer into exclusivity on the PS3.
 
Can't believe this thread is so big when the answer is simple. You can go into more minor reasons but the main one is price. They priced themselves out of the competition on the whim that people would pay it for unproven tech and bells and whistles most people didn't or thought they didn't need.

And then the small segment that could afford it hesitated because they thought either

A) The price is so damn high there has to be a price drop sooner then later so I will wait

or

B) The price is so damn high making this a major investment so maybe I should wait and see how things shape up.

And the more those people wait the worse the sales get, and we all have seen the consequences of that.
 
Ponn01 said:
Can't believe this thread is so big when the answer is simple. You can go into more minor reasons but the main one is price. They priced themselves out of the competition on the whim that people would pay it for unproven tech and bells and whistles most people didn't or thought they didn't need.

And then the small segment that could afford it hesitated because they thought either

A) The price is so damn high there has to be a price drop sooner then later so I will wait

or

B) The price is so damn high making this a major investment so maybe I should wait and see how things shape up.

And the more those people wait the worse the sales get, and we all have seen the consequences of that.
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The problem isn't that the thread ballooned over the deduction of an answer to the question, but more to do with the question itself being wrong.
 
Ponn01 said:
Can't believe this thread is so big when the answer is simple. You can go into more minor reasons but the main one is price. They priced themselves out of the competition on the whim that people would pay it for unproven tech and bells and whistles most people didn't or thought they didn't need.

And then the small segment that could afford it hesitated because they thought either

A) The price is so damn high there has to be a price drop sooner then later so I will wait

or

B) The price is so damn high making this a major investment so maybe I should wait and see how things shape up.

And the more those people wait the worse the sales get, and we all have seen the consequences of that.
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Price is simply the result of the console they chose to make. Sony isn't used to bleeding money subsidizing hardware to the consumer.

The PS3 should have been something different entirely, with innovations where they mattered, not tacked on motion controls and an unproven video format.
 
Tobor said:
How about just US though Wollan? You know the US where 3rd parties are expecting most of their software sales? Japanese developers are going to drop off for a different reason.
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the console war just cant be won in USA.. the console has to sale in every region
 
TheHeretic said:
Price is simply the result of the console they chose to make. Sony isn't used to bleeding money subsidizing hardware to the consumer.

The PS3 should have been something different entirely, with innovations where they mattered, not tacked on motion controls and an unproven video format.
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And i'm betting this is how this thread got so big. What came first, the egg or chicken? The first thing the average consumer sees is the price of an object, everything else is secondary.
 
Phoenix Down said:
the console war just cant be won in USA.. the console has to sale in every region
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The console war is over. The Wii won. It's perfectly possible to secure second place without securing all three major regions. Watch, it's happening right now.
 
Ponn01 said:
And i'm betting this is how this thread got so big. What came first, the egg or chicken? The first thing the average consumer sees is the price of an object, everything else is secondary.
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I can't imagine Sony going to the drawing board, starting at 600 dollars and building technology to fill that price point. I think its pretty evident someones eyes were bigger than their stomachs, so to speak.
 
Phoenix Down said:
what?
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What he's saying is: The Wii wins everything. X360 still gets strong software sales but anemic hardware sales, except in Japan where it's stillborn and PS3 flops around like a fish out of water.
 
Phoenix Down said:
what?
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Okay, who's going to beat the Wii? And how? Unless someone hops into a time machine and kills Wii in its crib. Maybe, like, stuff a deadly virus in the first ten that rolled out of the factory and so right on release it's known as "NINTENDO'S DEATH MACHINE" and the Today Show proclaims "DON'T BY THE WII, IT WILL KILL YOU". That's the only way the Console War isn't over already.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Okay, who's going to beat the Wii? And how? Unless someone hops into a time machine and kills Wii in its crib. Maybe, like, stuff a deadly virus in the first ten that rolled out of the factory and so right on release it's known as "NINTENDO'S DEATH MACHINE" and the Today Show proclaims "DON'T BY THE WII, IT WILL KILL YOU". That's the only way the Console War isn't over already.
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I put it to you like this.. theres only 1 console out of the three I think has the potential to sale 100 million units in the next 7-8 years.. and its not the wii.. this particular console im refering to wont have a high price point for long and will sell really well in all 3 major territorys unlike the 360.. its inevietable
 
Phoenix Down said:
I put it to you like this.. theres only 1 console out of the three I think has the potential to sale 100 million units in the next 7-8 years.. and its not the wii.. this particular console im refering to wont have a high price point for long and will sell really well in all 3 major territorys unlike the 360.. its inevietable
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And I disagree. When this mystery console does attain affordability, the Wii will have an even LARGER install base and third parties will have already opened the floodgates of development for it.
 
Phoenix Down said:
I put it to you like this.. theres only 1 console out of the three I think has the potential to sale 100 million units in the next 7-8 years.. and its not the wii.. this particular console im refering to wont have a high price point for long and will sell really well in all 3 major territorys unlike the 360.. its inevietable
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You're delusional.
 
Phoenix Down said:
I put it to you like this.. theres only 1 console out of the three I think has the potential to sale 100 million units in the next 7-8 years.. and its not the wii.. this particular console im refering to wont have a high price point for long and will sell really well in all 3 major territorys unlike the 360.. its inevietable
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All right. Start elaborating.

What factors will cause the Wii to stop selling the way it does now, and what factors will cause the PS3 to start selling enough to reach 100 million units?
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
And I disagree. When this mystery console does attain affordability, the Wii will have an even LARGER install base and third parties will have already opened the floodgates of development for it.
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I think the "floodgates" have already been opened. The quality of those games is questionable.
 
Phoenix Down said:
the console war is far from over..
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Exactly. Not when so many have made foxholes into homes. Definitely no Christmas truce, at any rate.

Mind boggles at how much seemingly depends on how Unreal engine (little red wheelbarrow of next-gen) is travelling.
 
Salazar said:
Exactly. Not when so many have made foxholes into homes. Definitely no Christmas truce, at any rate.

Mind boggles at how much seemingly depends on how Unreal engine (little red wheelbarrow of next-gen) is travelling.
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The Unreal engine's functionality has little to do with the Wii ripping off the HD consoles' heads and shitting down their throats.
 
Salazar said:
Exactly. Not when so many have made foxholes into homes. Definitely no Christmas truce, at any rate.

Mind boggles at how much seemingly depends on how Unreal engine (little red wheelbarrow of next-gen) is travelling.
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The Unreal Engine will have no impact on deciding who sells the most consoles this gen.

Do you guys really want me to pull out the Sony E3 quote?
 
Pureauthor said:
All right. Start elaborating.

What factors will cause the Wii to stop selling the way it does now, and what factors will cause the PS3 to start selling enough to reach 100 million units?
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About the Wii... I personally believe the wii will become less attractive around 2009 because of value.. it will look less attractive once the 360/ ps3 prices come down. the console doesent have legs to push this generation forward.. theres really nothing special about to wii except its price

About the PS3.. the console has the most legs out of the bunch to last but has the slowest start.. the biggest competition the PS3 has isent the 360 or wii but itself.. Sony has to lower the price to 399. if they where to do that IMO end of 08 they would be in second place.. the games are comming.. bottomline = 100 price cut
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
And I disagree. When this mystery console does attain affordability, the Wii will have an even LARGER install base and third parties will have already opened the floodgates of development for it.
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they develop for it and stop developing on the PS3 AND 360? what AAA 3rd party titles do you see going exclusive to the wii that would have ANY IMPACT on the next gen race
 
Phoenix Down said:
they develop for it and stop developing on the PS3 AND 360? what AAA 3rd party titles do you see going exclusive to the wii that would have ANY IMPACT on the next gen race
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Dragon Quest X

Though Japan is pretty much close to a lost cause for PS3.
 
Phoenix Down said:
About the Wii... I personally believe the wii will become less attractive around 2009 because of value.. it will look less attractive once the 360/ ps3 prices come down. the console doesent have legs to push this generation forward.. theres really nothing special about to wii except its price

About the PS3.. the console has the most legs out of the bunch to last but has the slowest start.. the biggest competition the PS3 has isent the 360 or wii but itself.. Sony has to lower the price to 399. if they where to do that IMO end of 08 they would be in second place.. the games are comming.. bottomline = 100 price cut
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*sigh*

I really don't feel like going through the bullet point list of 'why you're completely wrong' yet again.

Can someone else field it this time?
 
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