Why do so many here want the Xbox to fail?

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Final Fantasy XIII confirmed for Xbox 360

Gamespots E3 page for the Microsoft conference shows some images titled "Final Fantasy XIII (X360)" in the bottom right corner under "E308 images". Can't find a thread about it anywhere, and just started watching the conference so maybe I missed it...
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This place had had a hate boner for Xbox forever. Check out the meltdowns in this legendary thread. I personally hope Xbox can turn it around but it aint gonna happen with Phil. He's too laid back and chill to be good at his job it seems.
 
MS promised a lot of things and I hopped on and bought an XSX at launch. (Along with PS5).

It's not surprising that a company fails to deliver what they promised as they happen day in and out - so I am disappointed. I do wish they'll pick themselves up and do better from now on. Some tight QC on their 1st party games would be a start.
 
OuterLimits said:
Do you enjoy it when Sony sends bags of cash to 3rd party publishers to lock down games on your preferred console? They obviously have tons of 1st party talent so why do they feel the need to pay for 3rd party exclusives?
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If it was that simple (it's not), MS could just send a bigger bag (they've got a spare $70bn kicking around, right?). That's not how these deals work and the fact that everyone knows MS has cash on tap and so many still pretend that competitors win third-party exclusivity through cash leverage alone only shows how little people think about this argument (or how disingenuous they are in making it). If it was a question of cutting a cheque, MS could out-bid the competition every time and have pretty much every decent third party on lock for a generation.
 
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MS dropping the ball for a damn decade.

At this point, I won't be surprised what they would do if they became the new market leader. Can't root for them to fail because they will be the sole owners of my favorite developer. (Blizzard).
 
I don't want anyone to drop out of the games business, but I am happy to see that the strategy of brute force buying your way to success isn't playing out so well in the games market. Building and nurturing a solid stable of talent, now that's the ticket.
 
Xbox is currently in this area where its moves are disruptive enough to annoy people who like their favorite IPs on their current platforms, but they are also not competent enough to become additive to the gaming space and give people Unique IPs to look forward to. The natural conclusion here is for people to look at their watches and wait for them to die in the console market.

Customers don't owe you charity and good will just because you are 'competition', you have to be actually good at competing and be more useful than annoying to them.
 
Because I am still mad at them for buying Bungie after I saw the original Halo demo in person at Macworld Expo '99 and hoped it would have stopped making the Mac such a gaming laughing stock 😂
 
Topher said:
Downplaying making great games and making this shit about console war nonsense was just stupid. Phil should know better.
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For me it just confirms what I've been thinking for a long time, that now it's the delusional shills (the Colts and Timdogs of this world) that are giving the kool-aid to actual Xbox staff and not vice versa, the only ones who would ever think of the gaming landscape in this zero-sum way are literal console warriors.

Imagine if Jim Ryan suddenly came on an interview and started spouting off stuff you'd see coming out of Sony die hards on Twitter, I'd sell my PS5 then and there out of embarrassment.
 
Astray said:
Xbox is currently in this area where its moves are disruptive enough to annoy people who like their favorite IPs on their current platforms, but they are also not competent enough to become additive to the gaming space and give people Unique IPs to look forward to. The natural conclusion here is for people to look at their watches and wait for them to die in the console market.

Customers don't owe you charity and good will just because you are 'competition', you have to be actually good at competing and be more useful than annoying to them.
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We as consumers should expect better. If a company is just going to repeat the same mistakes they've made for a decade or longer, despite recognizing the same problems a decade ago and seemingly doing nothing about it, they deserve to fail in the market on their own accord.

So I agree - if the strategy of Xbox is to continue foreclosing major third party publishers on Playstation via acquisitions they can only afford, while simultaneously not delivering on any quality or timely releases of the massive stable of studios they already have -- then it's hard to imagine what positive force they bring to the industry. I certainly WANT the opposite, where we see a bright future of Xbox Game Studios delivering unique AAA games that we wouldn't otherwise get and provide more competition to the market.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
We as consumers should expect better. If a company is just going to repeat the same mistakes they've made for a decade or longer, despite recognizing the same problems a decade ago and seemingly doing nothing about it, they deserve to fail in the market on their own accord.

So I agree - if the strategy of Xbox is to continue foreclosing major third party publishers on Playstation via acquisitions they can only afford, while simultaneously not delivering on any quality or timely releases of the massive stable of studios they already have -- then it's hard to imagine what positive force they bring to the industry. I certainly WANT the opposite, where we see a bright future of Xbox Game Studios delivering unique AAA games that we wouldn't otherwise get and provide more competition to the market.
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I just think at this point, people are rejecting the Xbox/Microsoft brand, even the in-roads they made on PC are largely because they allowed stuff to be on Steam.

Earlier today, I was talking to a friend of mine about yesterday's Spencer interview, and how I think we might see something happen with Xbox soon, and he just went "Well good fuck Microsoft they ruin everything".. That was a moment I tell you.
 
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Spyxos said:
I see a lot of people here who are very happy that the Xbox is more than in a bad place right now. They want it to crash an burn. I have all the current consoles, but even if I only had the Ps5, that wouldn't be a good thing if Sony suddenly had no more competition (Nintendo is not their direct competition).

Ok let's look at what could happen if Xbox would exit the gaming market:

  1. Budgets for the games would be smaller. 200 million for God of War? What for? Half that or less would be enough.
  2. Sony just bought a lot of new studios, none of that would have happened. In fact, they would very likely downsize significantly.
  3. The game quality would probably suffer as well.
  4. Game prices could rise even further.
  5. Playstation VR would probably not happen either.
  6. Without competition, the Ps Plus costs would probably rise as well.
There would probably be more things happening that I'm not thinking about right now. Competition is good without it there will be no progress.
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All of this is BS because MS is barely relevant in the gaming market as it is (other than to discussion about failed publisher acquisition attempts) and none of that has happened.

Historically, Sony led the market when MS wasn't even in it and none of these fear-mongering issues were present.

In fact, back before MS entered console gaming, the market was in an arguably much stronger healthier position (with games focused on art and gameplay and not graphics---which necessitate ever-ballooning game budgets) and we certainly got WAAAAAY more creative games out of the Japanese gaming industry; since home console gaming was more popular in Japan.

MS very much led an industry-wide shift to western-centered, western-focused development, which turned off Japanese console gamers and resulted in a complete shift in the Japanese gaming market to mobile platforms, leading to a loss of home console development focus for Japanese devs and publishers.

If you don't like Eastern-developed games, you probably won't care. But I love Japanese games and I believe they're absolutely essential for a gaming platform if it's going to appeal to me as a gamer.
 
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Topher said:
Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure where Phil got this idea that the expectation some supposedly have is that MS must make game great so PS5 owners will abandon PlayStation. Just nonsense.

The expectation I and others have is that Microsoft must make great games and add them to the Xbox library so the platform has value. Microsoft is doing a shit job of that. Downplaying making great games and making this shit about console war nonsense was just stupid. Phil should know better.
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Really all it demonstrates is that gamers can't handle hearing anything but PR. They refuse to acknowledge nuance and acknowledge what he said, preferring gotcha clickbait instead of a nuanced conversation with honesty.

He spent the entire first half of the interview apologizing for a poor quality game and saying they have to get games out every quarter, and at quality, and they have to get their assistance and support teams in much earlier. Said Xbox games have had high MC scores for the last 2 years typically, and that's what they're shooting for.

The final comment is made in the context of the acquisition that he's dealing with; pretty obviously. Basically says that he believes that the gaming industry market is systemically built in such a way that it is anti-competitive. 1) Digital store front consolidation last gen, 2) Exclusivity deals. The anti-competitive nature of the market makes it impossible to succeed purely on the back of great games. It will require more, and will require Xbox and MS to chart a new path into an adjacent market. That's what he said, and everyone is too stupid to follow the conversation unless it's dumbed down into PR that says nothing.
 
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Spyxos said:
I see a lot of people here who are very happy that the Xbox is more than in a bad place right now. They want it to crash an burn. I have all the current consoles, but even if I only had the Ps5, that wouldn't be a good thing if Sony suddenly had no more competition (Nintendo is not their direct competition).

Ok let's look at what could happen if Xbox would exit the gaming market:

  1. Budgets for the games would be smaller. 200 million for God of War? What for? Half that or less would be enough.
  2. Sony just bought a lot of new studios, none of that would have happened. In fact, they would very likely downsize significantly.
  3. The game quality would probably suffer as well.
  4. Game prices could rise even further.
  5. Playstation VR would probably not happen either.
  6. Without competition, the Ps Plus costs would probably rise as well.
There would probably be more things happening that I'm not thinking about right now. Competition is good without it there will be no progress.
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Here here. Not only should the Activision deal go through but the nations of the world should come together to subsidize the Xbox brand. Make it the World's Console.

If they do not, the consequences on not even the gaming industry but society as a whole will be dire!

Do you want your games to spontaneously combust, anarchy, and roaming biker gangs enslaving the populace? I do not. I am not saying Xbox leaving the console market would do that. But I am not saying it won't not happen if they do. Phil must succeed.

People need to learn civility, understanding, and compassion over a brand owned by one of the world's highest value company. Xbox is a family* owned small** business. Stop punching down.

* Family is a relative word that two executives could feel to one another
** small in comparison to the Net GDP of China
 
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Punished Miku said:
Really all it demonstrates is that gamers can't handle hearing anything but PR. They refuse to acknowledge nuance and acknowledge what he said, preferring gotcha clickbait instead of a nuanced conversation with honesty.

He spent the entire first half of the interview apologizing for a poor quality game and saying they have to get games out every quarter, and at quality, and they have to get their assistance and support teams in much earlier. Said Xbox games have had high MC scores for the last 2 years typically, and that's what they're shooting for.

The final comment is made in the context of the acquisition that he's dealing with; pretty obviously. Basically says that he believes that the gaming industry market is systemically built in such a way that it is anti-competitive. 1) Digital store front consolidation last gen, 2) Exclusivity deals. The anti-competitive nature of the market makes it impossible to succeed purely on the back of great games. It will require more, and will require Xbox and MS to chart a new path into an adjacent market. That's what he said, and everyone is too stupid to follow the conversation unless it's dumbed down into PR that says nothing.
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No, I think it actually demonstrates that gamers can actually see through the BS PR better than they ever have

Phil has been apologizing for this stuff for years, he's a boy that cried wolf at this point, and a leader that does not acknowledge the importance of great games to their competitive strategy is a leader that is completely clueless as to the industry they work in.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
No, I think it actually demonstrates that gamers can actually see through the BS PR better than they ever have

Phil has been apologizing for this stuff for years, he's a boy that cried wolf at this point, and a leader that does not acknowledge the importance of great games to their competitive strategy is a leader that is completely clueless as to the industry they work in.
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This is false. Pretty much proves my point. The bulk of the interview was literally doing exactly that. That's just a fact.

For the record, I don't think you're dumb. But come on ... people are preferring gotcha bullshit over honesty and nuance. All you guys can handle is risk averse PR that says nothing.
 
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Punished Miku said:
This is false. Pretty much proves my point. The bulk of the interview was literally doing exactly that. That's just a fact.
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No it wasn't

Bulk of the interview was apologizing about something that should have never happened, which has happened plenty of times in the past with MS games studios, saying they need to "change the process" when the process has been broken for over a decade

And then he shifts the conversation to a place where his viewpoint that they can't compete on games so they must do something else....as a gaming company. Phil believes games are important but he does not believe they will make or break his success, that's worrisome.
 
I dont want them to fail. But I do want them to stop "aquiring" decent developers then running them into the ground as they always do. Nobody is winning with the strategy they are employing at the moment.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
Bulk of the interview was apologizing about something that should have never happened, which has happened plenty of times in the past with MS games studios, saying they need to "change the process" when the process has been broken for over a decade
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So he is apologizing for a poor game. He wants to change the process to ensure that the games come out at high quality.

But you claim he "does not acknowledge the importance of great games to their competitive strategy"

Okayyyyy.
 
Punished Miku said:
So he is apologizing for a poor game. He wants to change the process to ensure that the games come out at high quality.

But you claim he "does not acknowledge the importance of great games to their competitive strategy"

Okayyyyy.
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No

I claim that he does not acknowledge games as the #1 priority. He believes it's trivial compared to other initiatives like GamePass or Cloud
 
Success should be earned not given.

With that said I don't want to see Xbox fail but if they do a terrible job then they deserve it. If not then they can become a really strong competitor and that's great for the market.
 
James Sawyer Ford said:
No

I claim that he does not acknowledge games as the #1 priority. He believes it's trivial compared to other initiatives like GamePass or Cloud
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He never said it's trivial. He literally said the opposite over and over. Said something to the effect of, nothing pains me more than disappointing the Xbox community like this in his opening comment literally in the start of the interview. He looked physically ill over it.

All he said at the end is that they need to do more than great games because of market consolidation and what he perceives to be anti-competitive practices in the industry. You're totally misrepresenting what he said.
 
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I don't want them to fail, heck, I would love them to be great so the others will have to push forward BUT not with that business model, their way of shaping the future of gaming is wrong, pushing quantity over quality and not having any creative vision beyond of plain games as a service that keep the players hooked on a service is a no go for me, wish they had a solid stream of games like starfall, hellblade 2, avowed etc etc, but ms just takes too long to materialize those products and more often than not and they prioritize the service more.
 
Imo the majority of people saying " we only want it to do better" are lying to themselves. its not fooling anyone else. Xbox despite its shortcomings, gets a lot of flak that for things that sony and nintendo also do. its just the general sentiment around here, I don't think there are many sony fans that care if xbox does better. The laughing and pointing seen by many, isn't how you express that.
 
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Spyxos said:
I see a lot of people here who are very happy that the Xbox is more than in a bad place right now. They want it to crash an burn. I have all the current consoles, but even if I only had the Ps5, that wouldn't be a good thing if Sony suddenly had no more competition (Nintendo is not their direct competition).

Ok let's look at what could happen if Xbox would exit the gaming market:

  1. Budgets for the games would be smaller. 200 million for God of War? What for? Half that or less would be enough.
  2. Sony just bought a lot of new studios, none of that would have happened. In fact, they would very likely downsize significantly.
  3. The game quality would probably suffer as well.
  4. Game prices could rise even further.
  5. Playstation VR would probably not happen either.
  6. Without competition, the Ps Plus costs would probably rise as well.
There would probably be more things happening that I'm not thinking about right now. Competition is good without it there will be no progress.
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I don't want them to fail cause Batman needs his Joker but they're doing it to themselves, so what else can we do but meme and complain until they find out the people they hire are only there to collect a paycheck.

At this point they're the 3 stooges all on their own
3081980b00dc81bbf2fb13918bedf9e9.gif

giphy.gif
 
Meh, i just never liked Microsoft's ability to throw money around and basically force themselves to stay afloat no matter what. Shoot, if it were any other company they would have pulled out ages ago.
If they would focus on crafting games rather than tossing money around since day one i would have a fonder outlook. Im not just talking about just present times trying to buy companies up either.

Ive owned all consoles since i as far as i can remember so i enjoy their products when they click.
Other companies when facing challenges are required to face course correction or face extinction. Xbox has had no such problem- maybe now shit hitting the fan things can be turned around organically
 
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1. To justify their purchase.
2. They don't have much else to talk about.

For as big as Sony exclusives tend to be in terms of sales, they don't offer much once you complete them. That's part of the reason I like that Xboxs has more of a multiplayer focus imo. Those SP experiences are cool here and there, but I tend to spend most of my time playing MP games, and those always perform worse on Sony consoles. I'm especially glad Xbox is getting the fighting games again.
 
oldergamer said:
Imo the majority of people saying " we only want it to do better" are lying to themselves. its not fooling anyone else. Xbox despite its shortcomings, gets a lot of flak that for things that sony and nintendo also do. its just the general sentiment around here, I don't think there are many sony fans that care if xbox does better. The laughing and pointing seen by many, isn't how you express that.
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A arvfab just didn't realize it was a laugh emoji. I think he thought it was a smiling "positive encouragement" emoji. Thanks for the encouragement buddy. (y)
 
I don't want it to fail, Sony and Nintendo absolutely need the competition, but I also don't want Microsoft just buy up everything and weasel their way into being competitive in gaming like they've been doing since the 90s with everything else.
 
I don't want to fail. Things will be much much worse will only one company in the home console space. We need a third in the powerful home console space, not losing one.
 
ComputerBlue said:
I don't want it to fail, Sony and Nintendo absolutely need the competition, but I also don't want Microsoft just buy up everything and weasel their way into being competitive in gaming like they've been doing since the 90s with everything else.
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Nintendo's competition is the portable space more than Sony and Microsoft which we have seen a rise in like the Steamdeck and other portables lately.

As for the home console space, it is only Sony and MS. One of them exit is a consumer absolute nightmare.
 
on the contrary, Id like them to do better. monopolies are not good. also i want a decent new fallout game. 76 was just a fucking crime

the truth is the current gen is the first major console since the ORIGINAL GAMEBOY that I may never own.

I will also add that the ONLY game I played a lot on Xbox One was forza 6. I played some gears 4 then moved to PC. Same with gears 5 and forza 7. the PS4 got played SO much more than the xbox.

I want pre-kinect xbox back (but without the 3 red lights of death)
 
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Don't want them to fail, but it begs the question what is their place? Sony and Nintendo have strong first party. Microsoft have ip's but they can't do anything with them it seems. Xbox are somewhat middling and even I am considering turning off my resub to gamepass. I mean you don't even get dlc with first party games. It's not that great a deal. If you have a pc you have an Xbox essentially, you can just buy most Xbox games on Steam.
Xbox is floundering and can't really claim to even have or do something better than the other guys. It simply just exists for the most part. If it were possible for them to disappear from the console space and let someone else in things could possibly be more interesting.
 
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Horseganador said:
People are very tired of smoke, deceit and promises that never arrive in 10 years that is said soon and not one more happens to MS, the glass is full and the trust in Xbox is over.
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Couldn't have said it better. I'm tired of companies cruising on bs and false promises that never come to fruition. MS is a terrible company that who's main strategy since inception is fraud and buying out others to eliminate competition. It's always good to see a company like this take it on the chin.

And if they produce the goods again (good games), xbox will be perfectly fine.
 
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I don't care about the drama. My Series S purchase was justified when I acquired Ninja Gaiden II and Dead Rising 2: Case Zero. Casually playing Forza Horizon 3 with quick resume is also dope.

All I am looking forward to being worked on by Microsoft owned studios is the new Fable. Maybe another Forza Horizon if they get their heads out of their ass about the (constantly in your face) deformed avatar stage appearances. There is nothing in Sony's future catalogue for me at all. All of their stuff peaked in previous generations without leaving any room for improvement.
 
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Nah, I don't want them to fail, I just want them to release good games. I own an Series X for crying out loud. But other than Forza and Flight Simulator, I think in general Xbox first party games are pretty bad, so I don't mind shitting on them and laughing at them when they fail. But it's still a frustrating situation because in the end I find myself using this console only for third parties on Gamepass and backwards compatibility.
 
I'm actually pulling for Xbox since I like the initiatives they're taking but their complete inability to put out consistent, competent content is absolutely embarrassing and is pretty much killing the goodwill they should be earning.
 
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I want Xbox to succeed so I have more well funded Western bangers. They just are in the embarrassing, also ran, GoBots territory in the minds of a generation of playerz when compared to PS5's Transformers.

That need rehabilitated big time, and they are failing. They need to bring out new franchises that hit, and they may not be trying. You can't convince me that kids want Uncharted with grey hair or Dad of War. There is a big opportunity that is being missed.
 
I can respect Phil Spencer admiting they're in 3rd place... There's literally nothing wrong with that. Better to still be in the race then fall the fuck off. They just need to start monitoring the devs under the wing better and make better decisions. If they ACTUALLY accrue a decent number of exclusives I could see myself buying an Xbox in the future. One thing I will say... Not shocking Arkane didn't make a good game because it's not the first time.
 
Easy. Microsoft has only one thing in Mind. Get the complete Market, buy or destroy all who are in the Way.

All I want is that they are not the only Option left. That would be a fatal for gaming
 
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