Wii U: Does it really matter if PS4 and Xbox 720 are more powerful?
- Thread starter marc^o^
- Start date
shouamabane
Member
Gears of War wasn't a launch game.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
I just want to know one thing. Are there flying cars in the future?
Hence the 'everything else being equal' part.......
outunderthestars
Banned
Nah. same cars. They just added another set of side view mirrors and doubled the price.
LittleJohnny
Banned
My point is that a lot of people were disappointed with the leap from Xbox/PS2 to 360/PS3, initially at least but that's because it takes time to really see what this extra horsepower offers which is NOT just cosmetic and slicker characters.
Oblivion may not have looked leaps and bounds better than the best Xbox game, character models looked decent and I had seen slicker models in Ninja Gaien, but once you got to play Oblivion and experience it you then realized how amazing and what a leap from previous gen games it is.
Extra horsepower isn't just about better visual fidelity, the gaming experience will benefit as well.
Once you're used to playing games that look as good as Watch Dogs, PS3/360 games will look just as bad as PS2/Xbox games look to us now.
It was an early game. The first big technical showpiece on the system, the first game that made people go, "Oh, okay, next-gen really is here." The game that kicked off UE3's dominance and really showed what shaders could do.
Everything else in the first year of the 360 was pretty much just an Xbox up port.
RukusProvider
Banned
Yes it does. No reason why great artstyle and gameplay has to be limited to outdated hardware. That's a crutch excuse.
I've not got that far in the series yet, but I thought many people felt that Morrowind was a superior game to Oblivion?
Once you're used to caviar, fish fingers taste like shit.
Dark Octave
Banned
For devs looking to max out their games earning potential by porting it accross the board, it matters.
For fans who want to play their favorite multiplatform franchise on their favorite Nintendo system, it matters.
For fans who want to play their favorite multiplatform franchise on their favorite Nintendo system, it matters.
lettermassing
Neo Member
It shouldn't matter.
It matters as far as 720/PS4 and Wii U having modern feature sets so that one side isn't shafted for content once the generation kicks into full gear. Anything else is purely aesthetic and the difference between a PC running a game with the coveted 1080p60 with good image quality/AA and something running at 720p60 or 720p30 with similar IQ (hopefully).
shinobi602
Member
I don't know, NFS: Most Wanted looked pretty slick.
And there were things in Kameo that were really eye popping.
bgassassin
Member
I'm with the consensus that it's only really important if you want multi-plat games. I'd also assume a decent amount on GAF that will get a Wii U may also use a PC for their multi-plat choice.
Surprised no one picked up on this. For you to say you're familiar with the architecture, do you work for a game developer or a company that does other things with the console?
Surprised no one picked up on this. For you to say you're familiar with the architecture, do you work for a game developer or a company that does other things with the console?
SolidSnakex
Member
Those are also late-gen games compared to what will likely be early next-gen games. Remember launch games from this gen? They looked pretty damn poor now. Even Uncharted looks poor compared to Uncharted 3
It came out a year later. In terms of development time considering how crappy dev boxes were before 360 was in swing and wasn't is a clear difference in the games we saw.
2006 and 2007 we saw huge graphical jumps on both console and pc stop misrepresenting how things actually went during this period of time.
Shader technology was already quite accepted by then Farcry, Doom4, and HL2 did that not any console game.I can imagine for a crowd that doesn't pc game that was a jump. For me it really wasn't considering what took place before and what took place a year later.
As an early launch gamer of 360 I think PGR and Kameo did more considering what they had to deal with as the system was getting it's footing.
The Bookerman
Member
Those are also late-gen games compared to what will likely be early next-gen games. Remember launch games from this gen? They looked pretty damn poor now. Even Uncharted looks poor compared to Uncharted 3
The Big difference between these two pics is the lighting.
shinobi602
Member
Are you shitting me? Lol...
Drake is a MUCH higher poly model in UC3 than the first. Textures are also vastly improved.
Or maybe the fact the 2nd drake doesn't look like a shiny plastic doll anymore.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
There were definite improvements but not "enough". I had a 360 at launch, I remember the "Xbox 1.5" FUD. Personally I thought the "next gen" feel first came with Oblivion and GRAW in the spring though, and then Dead Rising in summer and finally Gears blew my mind the next holiday. Launch definitely felt rough though, which they usually do.
The Hermit
Member
It depends how strong the diminishing returns will kick. I though that last gen the difference wouldn't be too big, yet... http://www.gametrailers.com/video/comparison-video-dead-rising/46164
Also the article focus on indie developers and I think Nintendo should do the same. I really hope the WiiU eShop is even better than the 3DS one.
Also the article focus on indie developers and I think Nintendo should do the same. I really hope the WiiU eShop is even better than the 3DS one.
Chû Totoro
Member
Yet they made some concessions for SoTC and the game is still my favorite PS2 game.
But ok i won't be a dick you're clearly have a point but I know that with more power most of devs will take the easy way and won't make a journey like game. Look at TLG we're waiting for... not even sure to see it one day
Less beautiful TLG would be ok for me (even if of course having both is perfect but you understand that taking the risk not having a game at all because it burned all the money with graphical improvements is sad).
krypt0nian
Banned
So far the whole diminishing returns meme is nonsense.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Yes, it matters, since that's where third party will go.
No. You won't.
Christ.
That's the point. That's what diminishing returns are.
The jump from 3D attempts on the SNES like Star Fox and Stunt Race FX to the PS1/N64 was much bigger than the jump from PS1/N64 to PS2/GCN/Xbox.
The jump from PS1/N64 to PS2/GCN/Xbox was much bigger than the jump from PS2/GCN/Xbox to PS3/360.
And the jump from PS2/GCN/Xbox to PS3/360 will undoubtedly prove to be bigger than the jump from PS3/360 to PS4/720. And that's even with a technological jump comparable to that of previous generations, which is something I doubt.
It's not seeing the future. It's basic pattern recognition.
If you build a 3D model with 100 polygons, and then build the same model with 1000 polygons, there will be a huge leap.
If you multiply the power by 10 again and build the same model with 10,000 polygons, there will be another huge leap, but the leap won't be as huge as the jump from 100 to 1000.
If you multiply the power by 10 again and build the same model with 100,000 polygons, there will be another leap, but not anywhere near as huge as the last one.
You keep going, you keep multiplying by 10 every time, and you reach a point where the 10 trillion polygon model doesn't look much worse than the 100 trillion polygon model.
It's not seeing the future. It's having a basic understanding of technology.
This is the primary reason. Nintendo should not expect (By experience now) that 3rd party's will jump on the lead console. The premier teams want to work on premier tech. Ironically, they are also old fashioned so want the horsepower with traditional gameplay.
Nintendo is more insulated from this as their 1st Party is what people buy it for although that model means they are a secondary system.
walking fiend
Member
Undying was released in 2001 and it is a better game too. But well, people apparently only care about shinny graphics.
It matters if you're only interested in third party games, or if you honestly believe that the majority of AAA PS4/720 games are gonna be more than the same safe bet action games just with prettier graphics, or if those type of games are all you're interested in. Once Sony and Microsoft's next systems come out, it's doubtful that you're going to get that on the Wii U even if it blew Sony/MS out of the water. So yes, it matters in that scenario.
However if your main focus is something other than the typical AAA hollywood game, you'll most likely be looking at Nintendo first party and indie/lower budget on PS4/720, which probably won't be tech powerhouses anyway. So no, it won't matter because you most likely won't be getting top of the line tech anyway.
If you want both worlds, you're probably going to have to get two systems or Wii U/PC like with this generation.
However if your main focus is something other than the typical AAA hollywood game, you'll most likely be looking at Nintendo first party and indie/lower budget on PS4/720, which probably won't be tech powerhouses anyway. So no, it won't matter because you most likely won't be getting top of the line tech anyway.
If you want both worlds, you're probably going to have to get two systems or Wii U/PC like with this generation.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm bookmarking this for future use. Well stated.
The term "Diminishing returns" does not solely pertain to technological power.
The returns of an extra $250,000 on the budget have diminished.
Yeah, Morrowind was better, at least going from Morrowind on PC to Oblivion on 360. Dem loading times. I had to play a DS game/watch TV while playing Oblivion to avoid being bored/irritated because there was a 2 minute loading screen in between my house and the store in the main city I used and a 3 minute loading screen from anywhere else to that city...seriously.
At least if Bethesda makes an Elder Scrolls for the Wii U, they might put the game on the lower screen as well for off-TV play so I can watch TV while I wait, haha. Skyrim wasn't as bad about this, though, so I probably shouldn't joke like it'll get worse.
Basically, the first post answers this one - it's important for third parties (though they might not put the games on the Wii U anyway). I hope the Nintendo provides a good opportunity for indie developers on the Wii U eShop, though.
It certainly depends what the next consoles are going to offer. People want playable CGI, but not even top line PC is already there, and is actually not worthy when other emphasis, like art style, gameplay, etc make for more engaging experiences. Just looks at watch dogs, everyone drooled , yet is also coming for the 360/ps3. "But it won't run the same!", well, I'm absolutely sure only a very small minority will care. The big "next gen" game of e3 is actually current gen, that alone should tell you something.
Come on, man. Really?
You're using a rushed, low budget demake that looked terrible the day it released and wasn't even on a last-gen console as representation for all last-gen consoles?
Not games like, you know, God of War 2, RE4, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory - games that do look notably last-gen, and are absolutely technically inferior to current-gen games, but aren't at all unplayably ugly?
No! No it's not! We have objective observable evidence!
It's like denying evolution! Actually, I take that back, it's not. It would be like denying evolution if we had lived for millions of years and observed evolution happening.
krypt0nian
Banned
Exactly.
Mr. B Natural
Member
I'm all for mechanics and game design over power and graphics. More than happy, actually, to make such a sacrifice.
but I played what you had to offer for the Wii and I saw what you had to offer for E3, Nintendo, so you can't really talk anymore. Sorry.
but I played what you had to offer for the Wii and I saw what you had to offer for E3, Nintendo, so you can't really talk anymore. Sorry.
And nobody's saying that there won't be any difference.
Not a single person.
Zero people.
None.
Just that, according basic pattern recognition and a basic understand of technology, the difference won't be nearly as big as it was in previous generations.
krypt0nian
Banned
In your opinion.
Not the to the core Nintendo fan I would say.
My lack of interest in the wii u its its core game line up not graphics, I was perfectly fine with lots and lots of ps2/xbox games while just having purchased a ps3/360. Hell early ps3/360 games didn't look that much better than ps2 games, ps2 games just lacked online.
My interest in the wii u is that for the first 2/3 years if the wii u gets extra content/features due to the controller over the ps3 and 360 it becomes appealing.
But for me, for how long? Will I stop caring once the ps4 is out?
I don't plan to or want to be a multi console owner next gen. Waste of money to me really.
My lack of interest in the wii u its its core game line up not graphics, I was perfectly fine with lots and lots of ps2/xbox games while just having purchased a ps3/360. Hell early ps3/360 games didn't look that much better than ps2 games, ps2 games just lacked online.
My interest in the wii u is that for the first 2/3 years if the wii u gets extra content/features due to the controller over the ps3 and 360 it becomes appealing.
But for me, for how long? Will I stop caring once the ps4 is out?
I don't plan to or want to be a multi console owner next gen. Waste of money to me really.
outunderthestars
Banned
Again, system horsepower is more than just graphics. Look how the 3660 started its life in terms of UI, services, and other non-gaming functions and where it is now. Who knows what we will want to use consoles to do in another six years. the more power you have at your disposal the better.
You're completely correct about the polygons.
Yet, you're still completely wrong about Watchdogs being an example of diminishing returns.
Its a transitional generation game. Just like Doom 3 showed only the tip of the possibilities of normal mapping techniques, watchdogs shows just a fraction of the possibilities of new new lighting and particles effects. In starwars 1313 for example, they are anything but subtle.
krypt0nian
Banned
Some will never hear you. Just like last gen, they wanted to believe that a higher powered console was just "lol HD resolutions"
OldJadedGamer
Banned
The vast majority of games I buy are third party so yes it matters.