Trine 2 is beautiful no doubt, but DKCR is a way better game imo.
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Wii U Games 2014
- Thread starter Captain Smoker
- Start date
Trine 2 is beautiful no doubt, but DKCR is a way better game imo.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Read that aloud and try to keep a straight face when you do, especially the first part.
freakzilla3000
Junior Member
After DKCTF, I really hope Retro makes an original IP. I know everyone wants a new Metriod but a nice, new FPS in the vein of Halo would appeal a ton to the Western market and give Nintendo a brand new IP....
Yagami_Sama
Member
I can't decide if a give it a try on Injustice or Splinter Cell, but none of them really pick my interest. I like Tekken Tag but I want to play another fighting game.
Consider that Wii U is my main console, do you guys recommend any of the games I mentioned ?
Consider that Wii U is my main console, do you guys recommend any of the games I mentioned ?
moltonasty
Member
I paid $7 for Splinter Cell Wii U at gamestop
pretty damn awesome game at that price. and the load times really don't seem that bad at all to me. lego city was worse in that regard, for sure.
I actually own all 3 of those for Wii U, they're all worth a purchase IMO.
megabytecr
Member
This. As much as I love they are different and even if Nintendo is not willing to compete with Sony and MS in this regard, I would love their take on a simple yet fun MP FPS. Build the MP first and then deliver the SP in episodes.
freakzilla3000
Junior Member
What games do you have for Wii U now?
Deus Ex
Resident Evil Revelations
Splinter Cell
are some good choices if you don't have them yet. Would recommend more but don't know what you have.
That's debatable and subjective. The vastly different amount of resources gone into these games however, isn't. The statement being made, was that 2 or 2.5D platform games are not easier to make. Yet few indie devs go full out making 3D open world games... and many are making (beautiful) sidescrolling platformers. So, i can't do anything else, than conclude that these games ARE in fact easier to make.
And a vastly different amount of resources. Which was the point. Made by an indie team of 20, in 2 years time. Do you think a team of 20 could make an epic experience like Metroid Prime or RE4 in 2 years? I don't. So yes, 2D sidescrollers are easier to make.
Captain Smoker
Member
It's a financial presentation, you shouldn't expect any game announcements, it's more about the whole company, strategies and so on.
Ignore him, he's basically spielereinsing DKC at this point.
Tomorrow's the big day is it not ?
Your comparison is weird. You're comparing a huge expansive and highly polished game like MP or RE4 against a simple physics based puzzle platformer. Look at No Man's Sky. That was made by four people.
Great games are still very hard to make.
Edit: Obviously 2D games require less assets, but when players can only travel in two directions, level design becomes that much harder to perfect.
Yagami_Sama
Member
I got this, just retail :
Assassin's Creed III
Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition
Batman: Arkham Origins
BioHazard: Revelations - Unveiled Edition (JPN)
Darksiders II
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut
Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku (JPN)
DuckTales Remastered
Game & Wario
Mass Effect 3: Special Edition
Monster Hunter 3G HD Ver. (JPN)
Monster Hunter Frontier G (Beginner's Package) (JPN)
Musou Orochi 2 Hyper (JPN)
New Super Luigi U
New Super Mario Bros. U
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
Nintendo Land
Pikmin 3
Rayman Legends
Ryu ga Gotoku 1&2 HD for Wii U (JPN)
Shin Hokuto Musou (JPN)
Super Mario 3D World
Taiko no Tatsujin: Wii U Version (JPN)
Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD (GameStop Limited Edition)
The Wonderful 101
ZombiU
A few other eshop only.
Splinter Cell seems to be a more robust game than Injustice. The reviews I saw / read are not helping and some option out there do not seems to be realistic to me.
You know
GAF opinion >>>>> any other
Awww.
Well...there's always Steam backlogs to get to until the presentation.
I'm listening.
I'll see your bear, and raise you a dog! >:O
dearodie
Member
Seems to me adding more directions or dimensions would make it even harder.
How is it weird. You are comparing full 3D world games like MP with a "simple action based platformer" and claim both are equially hard to make. We are still talking about what Retro could have been working on instead of DKC, right? Both MP and DKC are by Retro, right? And you are still arguing that DKC isn't easier to make, right? Then i think it's funny you dismiss Trine2 as a simple game, without doing the same for DKC. I mean, you were arguing 2D platformers weren't easier to make? We were always comparing this, to something else Retro could have been working on, correct? Like Metroid Prime? And if adequate 2D games weren't easier to make, how come so many small (compared to Retro) indie devs with no money (compared to Retro) have made some fine 2D games, yet none has tried to make something like Metroid Prime?
No Man's Sky is made by procedurals. Once the basics are in place, the game makes itself. Also, please give another example. Because i can give you dozens of 2D platformers made by small indie studio's.
More empty space. Go watch some speedruns of DKCR and you'll understand just how finely tuned their levels are.
You can only go above or below enemies/objects on a 2D level.
I claimed it. Thank you very much.
Trine 2 looks as good as it does because it has significantly less content than Donkey Kong. It also controls much worse. It may be easier to program a 2ď game , but its still incredibly hard to design one. I mean if we're comparing Trine to DK, you could also compare The Ball, Sir You Are Being Hunted, Quantum Conundrum and countless other to Metroid Prime
I couldn't bring myself to break 60% because I got bored. Watching latter level speedruns still don't look as good as what Mario platformers offer.
It controls much worse because it's based on physics. And i finished Trine2, there is very much unique content, many different assets, not stuff repeated every other screen. Visually, Trine2 levels look much more diverse than DKC levels imo. So i doubt what you say is true. And still, even if DKC gets to have the upperhand here, which i disagree with, even then we are talking about a team of 20 pulling it off in 2 years. Not a team of 80-100 doing it in 4 years.
Look, the premis was that 2D platformers are not easier to do. And yet, forgetting about MP or DK for a moment, there are many examples of small indie teams on a budget, making great, not crappy, 2D platformers. The same can not be said about full 3D (open) world games. And there is a reason for it. Because; with the same resources and time, it's much harder to pull it off, if it's even possible.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Amnesia? The Witness? Among the Sleep? The Walking Dead? Journey? There are tons of 3D games made by indies.
Trine 2 is extremely simplistic compared with Retro's Donkey Kong games, just as most of the above 3D games are very simplistic compared to something like RE4 of MP. Anyone can make a game, 2D or 3D. But making a GREAT fast paced 2D platformer like Donkey Kong or Rayman takes a tremendous amount of skill. Retro themselves said they were surprised at how much skill goes into 2D games. Straight out of the developer's mouth who have done both types. I don't really see what there is to argue about.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It's funny how people exaggerate to try to prove points.
What's being exaggerated?
Anyway, you guys enjoy your DKC. I'm done with the debate, nothing more to say. If you feel DKC is something a studio like Retro should be working on for 4 years (that's about the same timeframe with about half the staff of say... Monolith and X right?), then i guess that's good for you. I won't be buying it, i'll just play something like Deus Ex a second time, due to a lack of something similar by a Nintendo studio.
crap monkey
Member
I agree with the guy you're quoting. People over exaggerate DKCR's difficulty when it really isn't very hard. The few levels that are are the Temple Levels and the one extra level, but the rest of the game, even trying to get everything, isn't that hard. I only had real trouble on one level where you're running away from the bat on the barrel, and even then completing the level isn't hard, getting the G is. I find the hard mode tacked onto the game is just artificial difficulty. They had to flip the levels around and get rid of Diddy to make the game hard. The original DKC games didn't need a hard mode to be difficult, the levels were designed that way. There's nothing in DKCR that matches the difficulty of levels like Lighting Lookout, Animal Antics, Parrot Chute Panic or Poisonous Pipeline, to name a few. DKCR is difficult for Nintendo's standards now, but it wouldn't really be anything special back then. All the DKC games, along with SMBS 1, Lost Levels, 3 and SMW are much harder than the stuff Nintendo releases today.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Retro is like 70ish, and TF hadn't started development as of April 2012, so it's well under 3 years at this point.
Oh, 70 instead of 80. Sorry. This changes everything. Also i understood their numbers are constantly fluctuating, and it's hard to say what their average is.
April 2012? That can't be right. That's not even 2 years. That was mere months before the WiiU launched. What have they been doing? DKC released in 2010!
Hero of Legend
Member
Mario Kart 7 is the only explanation.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
No, they were 20% done with Metroid Dread before it was cancelled.
Yeah, strange that Retro didn't start development on this game back in february of 2010, months and months before DKCR released. That would've given them 4 years of dev time on this.
Anyways, I think it's pretty great that we have talented teams like this devoting so much development time to a game like Tropical Freeze.
Making an "adequate" 2D platformer isn't the goal. Making an awesome one is - and that takes time and effort from talented people.
edit: what hero of legend said
voltronbadA
Member
Pretty bummed out it doesn't look like we'll be getting a Nintendo Direct tomorrow and I doubt that we will be getting on on Friday either. Hopefully some info can be gleaned from the investor's meeting that will be happening on Thurs but even then it will probably be more what direction they want to steer the company over the next year rather than information about any upcoming games. I'm dying for some big, new info over here Nintendo!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Pretty much. Trine 2 is pretty, but I tried playing the thing and was bored out of my fucking mind. A well-designed platformer is a lot more difficult to put together than people realize. DKCR, on the other hand, was a masterclass in 2D game design.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Not true. They did tons of work. Animations, engineering, art, design, work on new tracks. Read the Iwata Asks.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/mario-kart-7/0/0
Because a game is only finished once it is printed, shipped and in stores? Or being localized? All the devs in a studio, all have the same skillset and job description? The people cleaning up the game and tightening the gameplay, are the same people designing the monsters and doing the brainstorming about the art direction? This stuff can't overlap, right? I mean, the character and level designers are just juggling their thumbs until the other guys get the performance right and add some extra graphical effects in the final months before release.
The game really does get much more difficult in that last 40% and then much, much harder in the second 100%. It's not a game I could get into speedrunning with as I can with NSMBU, though. It's just not as fluid or speedy on the 3DS version at least.
I appreciate your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. I think the fact that Mirror Mode exists is actually a testament to the cleverness of the level design, and how, similarly to the NSMBU games or 3DW, you can make the game much harder by not using power-ups or an assist character like Diddy. You played the game to 200%? I really find it to be extremely tricky to do so. I actually think SM3 is pretty tough later in the game and most of SMW I don't find to be too bad at all. I find some of the levels in SMG/2 and 3DW to be just as hard. I can see we see this differently, so I'm rebutting your point, but I understand you likely do not agree. (I will say I find Yoshi's Island harder to 100% than almost any other platformer.)
TheSpaceBetween
Member
My apologies. I meant 2011. The biggest fluctuation was after MP3 when they went down from around 90 to under 70. There is a photo of the team taken from a video this E3 that shows 70-75. Since DKCR they have also worked on Mario Kart 7 and DKCR 3D.
Look man, i appreciate your honesty, but if someone was exaggerating, it was you. Your comment came off like i was blowing this out of proportion to make a point. While at times they are/were in fact between 80 and 100 people, like you said. Fine, they downsized, so i was off a bit. Now you say 70 to 75... that's only 5 people below the range i spoke off. Not exactly exaggerating for the sake of making a point, now is it? Also, how can you be sure the entire team was present when that shot was made? They didn't hire more people for HD development? I know they hired part of the old Darksider team.
And like i said earlier, part of the team could easily have started close to 4 years ago, just going by the release date of DKCR . The people doing the heavy lifting in the early stages, aren't necessarilly the same people doing the heavy lifting in the final months. A part could have been working on it for months before the previous game released. Not to mention, they got a headstart by being able to work off the groundwork they did for the previous game. I'm not saying that's the case, but i doubt anyone here has an exact internal workschedule of how they shifted resources. We don't know how many people were involved with MK7 and for how long (i think?), but given all these variables, still, i'm not impressed. It also doesn't help that i'm not hyped in the least for DKCTF.
I want to leave it at that.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I was more referring to the four years thing. Unless Tanabe was lying, they weren't even plans to do more DKC as of April 2011. And no, the headcount wouldn't have been exaggerating if you would have said 80, but I am sick of people criticizing DKCR saying Retro is some huge 100 or more person team who can't even make a 2D platformer.
And yes, we do know who worked on MK7, and it was the vast majority of designers, animators, artists, and engineers.
http://www.mariowiki.com/List_of_Mario_Kart_7_staff#Retro_Studios
And yes, they were DEEPLY involved in it's development.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/mario-kart-7/0/0
That list is less than half their staff. And do we know how long all these people were involved with MK7? I mean, they did the tracks, but the engine was already running i presume. Their numbers are but a fraction of the entire staff working on the game.
Look, it doesn't matter. I'm completely underwhelmed with their output, and i'm completely bummed out they did another DKC. And even if this turns out to be the single greatest 2D platformer, it won't change the way i feel.