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[herzogzwei1989]

I'd love me some PilotWings U with graphics on par with the Garden demo. Imagine being able to see different views with the small screen and/or have all the HUD info there. Something to show off what Wii U can really do.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I'm right with you on smoother framerates, and better AI...we may not go too much farther with physics and I'm not sure it relates too heavily on the gameplay front either That's my main hope for next gen, just a faster smoother all around experience from the OS/features/services to games on down. Full disclosure, I'm not a graphics guy when it comes to consoles. And I'm not convinced that better hardware = more realized and extravagant worlds, that just requires great design and art direction.

But here's my prediction on performance next-gen, I'll predict we don't see a lot of difference. We could have 1080p or full 720p at 60fps in every game now, but it's just not a production directive. The directive is to push aggressive visuals to the wall every game and hopefully keep a relative 30fps. And that's just a failure of priority among dev's where they weigh these visuals more important than the end user experience (fast loading, quick UI, silky framerate). A lot of that we only have ourselves and fellow gamers to blame for, after all we see more clamoring for "graphics" rather than performance and stability. We rarely see a gamer say"Hey I'm willing to sacrifice a great deal of detail for 1080p 60fps", what we see is "MAKE BETTER GRAPHICS" or the subtle slight of the passive voice "give me relative good performance and great graphics, a balance"...which for dev's relates to "push it as far as you can but remember to keep it playable" most of the time. I'm a sacrifice a huge amount of visual detail for pure performance on consoles guy, I think that's a better gameplay experience. I'd love to see a games industry where the mandate is keep it at full 720p 60fps but push the art, AI, physics and detail as far you you can within those limits, it'd be interesting if that was the competition among dev's. I'd wager we'd get better games and surely better experiences.

I agree with you. You know, why is it that nearly every Namco and Sega arcade game in the 90s were a silky smooth 60fps. Plus they always had great graphics. It's like we've gone backwards in the last two generations of consoles. I really hope Wii U brings games with better (60fps) framerates, with a few exceptions where 30fps is fine (Zelda).

 

[AceBandage]

The rise in costs wouldn't be too bad if no-one gets aggressive. Part of why the current generation had the casualties it did is because Microsoft and Sony pushed everyone over a big cost hurdle early.

That's the problem, though.
EA and Activision and the like ARE going to be aggressive.
They're going to keep pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for game budgets.
They WANT to drive smaller companies out of business.
They WANT a monopoly.
And that is the worst thing that could happen.
Not just from the fact that we'd basically just have the same games over and over from like 3 companies, but also because it'll destroy the industry.
I just don't get how anyone can't see the long term harm this is doing (well, besides Iwata).
I mean, gaming is being pulled in two extremes right now.

On the one side, you have Apple and the App Market that boasts low end (cheap/free) gaming for all.

On the other, you have giant companies trying to force giant budgets for a niche audience.

Neither is a good long term strategy.

 

[Christine]

Link didn't work but I honestly can't see how marketing could go up compared to what they alreadt pump into stuff like Halo heh.

Sorry, my bad: #9343. I think guek just got a little excited

I'm mostly kidding about the marketing budget thing.

 

[guek]

Link didn't work but I honestly can't see how marketing could go up compared to what they alreadt pump into stuff like Halo heh.

Halo 3's marketing budget was about $6.5 million according to various sources (strangely enough, the only conflicting source I've found is Pachter saying it was a lot more)

Battlefield 3 had had a $100 million marketing budget

:-/

That shit is insane.

The rise in costs wouldn't be too bad if no-one gets aggressive. Part of why the current generation had the casualties it did is because Microsoft and Sony pushed everyone over a big cost hurdle early.

I agree. If what SA heard turns out to be true though, it seems like it's the big publishers that are pushing MS to be aggressive.

 

[AceBandage]

Halo 3's marketing budget was about $6.5 million according to various sources (strangely enough, the only conflicting source I've found is Pachter saying it was a lot more)

Battlefield 3 had had a $100 million marketing budget

:-/

That shit is insane.

And Kinect was $500 million.
And that thing basically just sold hardware, and little software.
It's crazy. How does anyone think these are good business practices. How do they think this is sustainable?

 

[Christine]

And Kinect was $500 million.
And that thing basically just sold hardware, and little software.
It's crazy. How does anyone think these are good business practices. How do they think this is sustainable?

I don't have to be able to run faster than the bear. I just have to run faster than you.

 

[Anth0ny]

Halo 3's marketing budget was about $6.5 million according to various sources (strangely enough, the only conflicting source I've found is Pachter saying it was a lot more)

Battlefield 3 had had a $100 million marketing budget

:-/

That shit is insane.

That is fucked up. I remember the hype surrounding Halo 3's launch. There was ELECTRICITY in the air. G4 had a 24 hour special leading to the game's midnight launch in New York City. I wasn't even a huge fan of the Halo series (never owned an Xbox up to that point), and I was hyped for some reason.

All with "only" $6.5 million. Compared to Battlefield 3's $100 million? Jesus Christ.

 

[pieatorium]

Halo 3's marketing budget was about $6.5 million according to various sources (strangely enough, the only conflicting source I've found is Pachter saying it was a lot more)

Battlefield 3 had had a $100 million marketing budget

:-/

That shit is insane.




I agree. If what SA heard turns out to be true though, it seems like it's the big publishers that are pushing MS to be aggressive.

They had a superbowl ad for Halo 3 didn't they?, that alone would have cost a few million. They had every kind of tie in you could think of with that thing lol

 

[Oddduck]

That's the problem, though.
EA and Activision and the like ARE going to be aggressive.
They're going to keep pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for game budgets.
They WANT to drive smaller companies out of business.
They WANT a monopoly.
And that is the worst thing that could happen.
Not just from the fact that we'd basically just have the same games over and over from like 3 companies, but also because it'll destroy the industry.
I just don't get how anyone can't see the long term harm this is doing (well, besides Iwata).
I mean, gaming is being pulled in two extremes right now.

On the one side, you have Apple and the App Market that boasts low end (cheap/free) gaming for all.

On the other, you have giant companies trying to force giant budgets for a niche audience.

Neither is a good long term strategy.

All of this is pretty much correct. I've felt for a long time that the big publishers are trying to drive out smaller publishers.

The Microsoft's, EA's and Activisions want to drive everyone out.

 

[bigtroyjon]

And Kinect was $500 million.

No, it wasn't. The quarter Kinect launched Microsoft spent about 300 million on sales and marketing in the entire division which was 20% higher than the year before. 500 million on Kinect is one of those urban legends that spawned from a shitty member of the gaming press.


And Halo 3's marketing was well above 6.5 million, wikipedia says more than 40 which sounds much more reasonable.

Link about the marketing
The commercial alone cost 10 million to make

 

[pieatorium]

Sorry, my bad: #9343. I think guek just got a little excited

Heh OK yeah a little bit over excited indeed, however games costing $70 or $80 +? Americans don't know how good they have it with $60 rrp.

 

[AceBandage]

No, it wasn't. The quarter Kinect launched Microsoft spent about 300 million on sales and marketing in the entire division which was 20% higher than the year before. 500 million on Kinect is one of those urban legends that spawned from a shitty member of the gaming press.


And Halo 3's marketing was well above 6.5 million, wikipedia says more than 40 which sounds much more reasonable.

Link about the marketing
The commercial alone cost 10 million to make

$300 Million is still insane (especially for a 4 month time frame), even if it was for the entire game division.
Just slightly less insane.

 

[suracity]

Wow.. I didn't know that EA put that much money into marketing Battlefield 3...

100 million dollars... You even can buy several small studios using that amount of money...

 

[Anth0ny]

I don't even remember much marketing surrounding the Kinect launch.

There was...uh... KINECT COMING SOON posters in the xbox 360 section of Best Buy? I don't recall seeing a single ad on TV. Compare that to the WII WOULD LIKE TO PLAY commercials that seemed to play every 10 minutes.

 

[guek]

No, it wasn't. The quarter Kinect launched Microsoft spent about 300 million on sales and marketing in the entire division which was 20% higher than the year before. 500 million on Kinect is one of those urban legends that spawned from a shitty member of the gaming press.


And Halo 3's marketing was well above 6.5 million, wikipedia says more than 40 which sounds much more reasonable.

Link about the marketing
The commercial alone cost 10 million to make

Ok, that sounds more like it. $6.5mil seemed way too low but that's what google spat out. Should have just wikied it.

Still less than BF3's though. And apparently Reach had a bigger marketing budget than Halo3 as well.

Heh OK yeah a little bit over excited indeed, however games costing $70 or $80 +? Americans don't know how good they have it with $60 rrp.

I could see game prices go up again. Would be crazy though, especially in a world where more and more people are only paying roughly 99cents.

 

[Christine]

Heh OK yeah a little bit over excited indeed, however games costing $70 or $80 +? Americans don't know how good they have it with $60 rrp.

No-one should be getting too excited about anything yet. There is plenty excitement to come, oh yes, there will be plenty excitement to come. *shivers*

 

[magash]

The level of stupidity and immaturity exhibited by people running the video game industry is unbelievable. These people are pushing for beefier hardware just because they can and not because they should. It is exactly like how back in the 80's businesses kept on heavily investing in Information Technology Infrastructure even though they did not need to.

A game like Call of Duty that has a yearly version costs between $40-50 million just to develop.

Yves Guillemot expects the cost of video games for next gen systems to be in the neighbourhood of $60 million.

No one and I mean no one (well with the exception of Nintendo) in this industry can afford the cost of making $60 million dollar games.

 

[guek]

The level of stupidity and immaturity exhibited by people running the video game industry is unbelievable. These people are pushing for beefier hardware just because they can and not because they should. It is exactly like how back in the 80's businesses kept on heavily investing in Information Technology Infrastructure even though they did not need to.

A game like Call of Duty that has a yearly version costs between $40-50 million just to develop.

Yves Guillemot expects the cost of video games for next gen systems to be in the neighbourhood of $60 million.

No one and I mean no one (well with the exception of Nintendo) in this industry can afford the cost of making $60 million dollar games.

Where were you 15 minutes ago when I was digging through the bowels of the internet for an article along those lines? Bah!

 

[bgassassin]

No-one should be getting too excited about anything yet. There is plenty excitement to come, oh yes, there will be plenty excitement to come. *shivers*

There will be chicken broth.

I don't even remember much marketing surrounding the Kinect launch.

There was...uh... KINECT COMING SOON posters in the xbox 360 section of Best Buy? I don't recall seeing a single ad on TV. Compare that to the WII WOULD LIKE TO PLAY commercials that seemed to play every 10 minutes.

Really? I remember seeing the same commercial over and over to the point that I was getting sick of hearing that electric guitar intro while the people were running in place.

 

[bigtroyjon]

$300 Million is still insane (especially for a 4 month time frame), even if it was for the entire game division.
Just slightly less insane.

3 month time frame and it's for marketing and sales which would include the salaries for all the sales and marketing people that work there along with all the normal marketing stuff they do like displays in Gamestop and other video game stores around the world. Also includes whatever they are spending on phone marketing which is why current figures(post Nokia and Skype) are pretty much worthless now to determine video game stuff.

Nintendo is going to spend about 1 billion dollars(80 billion Yen) on advertising this fiscal year as a comparison and they spent about 15% more than that the year before.

 

[HylianTom]

The level of stupidity and immaturity exhibited by people running the video game industry is unbelievable. These people are pushing for beefier hardware just because they can and not because they should. It is exactly like how back in the 80's businesses kept on heavily investing in Information Technology Infrastructure even though they did not need to.

A game like Call of Duty that has a yearly version costs between $40-50 million just to develop.

Yves Guillemot expects the cost of video games for next gen systems to be in the neighbourhood of $60 million.

No one and I mean no one (well with the exception of Nintendo) in this industry can afford the cost of making $60 million dollar games.

The "vengeful bastard" part of me is fascinated in seeing how this would all pan-out.

Imagine the only console software developers left being Activision, EA, and first/second parties. What would the industry look like then?

 

[AceBandage]

The "vengeful bastard" part of me is fascinated in seeing how this would all pan-out.

Imagine the only console software developers left being Activision, EA, and first/second parties. What would the industry look like then?

A barren wasteland...

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

The level of stupidity and immaturity exhibited by people running the video game industry is unbelievable. These people are pushing for beefier hardware just because they can and not because they should. It is exactly like how back in the 80's businesses kept on heavily investing in Information Technology Infrastructure even though they did not need to.

A game like Call of Duty that has a yearly version costs between $40-50 million just to develop.

Yves Guillemot expects the cost of video games for next gen systems to be in the neighbourhood of $60 million.

No one and I mean no one (well with the exception of Nintendo) in this industry can afford the cost of making $60 million dollar games.

Microsoft could. easier then nintendo.

If Sony could get back into hte black over all they could too, more so then nintendo.

You have to remember that nintendo only makes video games/consoles.

Microsoft and Sony have other divisions.

 

[magash]

Where were you 15 minutes ago when I was digging through the bowels of the internet for an article along those lines? Bah!

LOL. The console portion/sector of the video game industry is in serious trouble. In less than one generation an entire class of developers has been wiped out (mid-level developers). Increasing the cost of development now will only make things worst.

 

[Christine]

What remarkable optimism.

 

[HylianTom]

LOL. The console portion/sector of the video game industry is in serious trouble. In less than one generation an entire class of developers has been wiped out (mid-level developers). Increasing the cost of development now will only make things worst.

But we neeeed to see individual nits on each of the asshairs of the bokoblins we're slaying! Why don't you understand this?! Without that exquisite level of detail, the game would be 7.9 garbage. We call them video games for a reason, dude.

Spoiler

"LOL" indeed!

 

[AceBandage]

Microsoft could. easier then nintendo.

If Sony could get back into hte black over all they could too, more so then nintendo.

You have to remember that nintendo only makes video games/consoles.

Microsoft and Sony have other divisions.

Sony is so deep in the red, that I don't see them hitting the black any time soon, honestly.

What remarkable optimism.

About every 2 weeks we hear of studios closing or laying off hundreds of people...
This is not a healthy industry, and things are going to get worse with EA and Activision at the helm.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Sony is so deep in the red, that I don't see them hitting the black any time soon, honestly.

Ya, but it's not the gaming division. Their other product are way overpriced and people don't but them because of it.

 

[AceBandage]

Ya, but it's not the gaming division. Their other product are way overpriced and people don't but them because of it.

No.
Their ENTIRE company is millions (billions?) in the hole.
They are no where near the black.

 

[axisofweevils]

This is all part of the traditional Nintendo cycle.

1. Nintendo announce new console which forsakes graphical prowess for an innovative idea.

2. Anal-ysts predict Nintendo's doom. They write the [DS/Wii/3DS/Wii U] off because it has [touch screen/motion controls/3D without glasses/tablet controller] and predict that the more traditional [PSP/PS360/Vita/Ps4Loop] will be far more popular because it has HARDCOAR GAMEZ!!!! and can render 63 billion shades of blood in a brown environment.

3. Despite this, Nintendo's console prints money.

4. Anal-ysts claim that "Nintendo's victory was a fluke that can't possibly happen again" as E3 approaches.

The cycle repeats.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

No.
Their ENTIRE company is millions (billions?) in the hole.
They are no where near the black.

no, their gaming division makes a profit. It's all the other divisions that put them in the red.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I was really disappointed with the selection of games on WiiWare, I truly hope Wii U's eShop (or whatever it's called) has a vastly greater selection of games (and apps).

 

[Roo]

Sony is so deep in the red, that I don't see them hitting the black any time soon, honestly.

Why doesn't Sony pull off a Kodak?

Spoiler

trollface.jpg

 

[AceBandage]

I was really disappointed with the selection of games on WiiWare, I truly hope Wii U's eShop (or whatever it's called) has a vastly greater selection of games (and apps).

Well, the 3DS is already destroying the Wii in terms of quality downloadable games, so that's a good sign.

 

[Pocks]

Did anything interesting ever come of the ACIII magazine feature?

 

[Linkhero1]

While we're talking about WiiWare/VC games. I was wondering if Nintendo has discussed about being able to transfer WiiWare/VC games from Wii to Wii U. If not, do you guys think it will be in the same vein as transferring from DS to 3DS?

 

[HylianTom]

This is all part of the traditional Nintendo cycle.

1. Nintendo announce new console which forsakes graphical prowess for an innovative idea.

2. Anal-ysts predict Nintendo's doom. They write the [DS/Wii/3DS/Wii U] off because it has [touch screen/motion controls/3D without glasses/tablet controller] and predict that the more traditional [PSP/PS360/Vita/Ps4Loop] will be far more popular because it has HARDCOAR GAMEZ!!!! and can render 63 billion shades of blood in a brown environment.

3. Despite this, Nintendo's console prints money.

4. Anal-ysts claim that "Nintendo's victory was a fluke that can't possibly happen again" as E3 approaches.

The cycle repeats.

I'm growing to love the Nintendo cycle. The doomsayers almost take it as a personal affort that Nintendo still exists. To put it in SAT form:

Miyamoto & Iwata : Bo & Luke Duke :: Pachter : Sheriff Roscoe P Coltrane

No.
Their ENTIRE company is millions (billions?) in the hole.
They are no where near the black.

 

[EDarkness]

Well, the 3DS is already destroying the Wii in terms of quality downloadable games, so that's a good sign.

What killed me with WiiWare was the crazy 40MB limit for games. Such a crazy thing to impose and it pretty much crippled the service and games, in my opinion. Hopefully there won't be anything like that with the Wii U.

 

[hatchx]

I don't even remember much marketing surrounding the Kinect launch.

There was...uh... KINECT COMING SOON posters in the xbox 360 section of Best Buy? I don't recall seeing a single ad on TV. Compare that to the WII WOULD LIKE TO PLAY commercials that seemed to play every 10 minutes.

Kinect advertising here in Toronto was insane. Huge billboards, television ads, it was everywhere.

 

[EricDiesel]

I think being a fan of a system is stupid personally. I'm a fan of games.

That's how I feel, too. I flock to where the games are. Not to the box that has more flops and hertz and gizmos, or what faceless corporate mass has their name plastered on the side. Design hardware that can make experiences I'm interested in playing and I'm there.

edit: I refreshed not too long ago and already the topic of discussion has veered in a new direction. This thread is absurd.

 

[Anth0ny]

Kinect advertising here in Toronto was insane. Huge billboards, television ads, it was everywhere.

Maybe I didn't leave the house or watch TV during the whole craze.





Probably.

 

[guek]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

 

[AceBandage]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

Whatever Retro is working on, of course.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

Zelda or Metroid, obviously.

 

[guek]

*facepalm* no, give me a title! choose one! I'm sure you wouldn't want to see Nintendo Presents: Retro's Barbie Adventure

Zelda or Metroid, obviously.

I dunno, those would be big but I think it's a bit played out by now. I think nintendo needs something out of left field to really surprise people, in the same way other m came out of nowhere.

 

[Anth0ny]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

Retro Zelda.

 

[AceBandage]

*facepalm* no, give me a title! choose one! I'm sure you wouldn't want to see Nintendo Presents: Retro's Barbie Adventure

Hmmm...
Actually...

Nah.

I mean, Metroid or Startropics would be amazing, of course.
Or maybe a new Xeno game from Monolith.
Like XB, only bigger, and in a more SciFi world. With 4 player online co-op drop in drop out.
Yeah. There we go. I just made the next billion seller.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

Choaniki MMORPG.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

ok guys, lets get away from all this silly industry talk and get to something even sillier - the end of conference bomb.

If you guys could choose the game they unveil at the very end of the conference after Reggie says "Oh and one more thing," what would it be? I don't mean what's your most wanted nintendo game. I'm more curious what you guys think would be the biggest bomb they could drop that would be the biggest possible surprise.

Take your pick:

Ultima Underworld 3

Mikami Exclusive

Yoshi's Island 2

Captain Falcon Brawler/HnS (can't get over how cool this would be)

Smash Trilogy HD Online unveiled to this song (sound like a track straight out of Smash)