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[ahtlas7]

If Sony raises prices too high it opens the door for a competitor to join the fight. Other companies who say: it's to costly to build a machine to compete now have a wider margins to play. Valve might be able to manufacture a price competitive set top box to compete. Whatever happens, without competition I can guarantee you will see price increases to some degree: 1-10% possibly.

 

[kruis]

The idea that there's no competition is false.

This is an industry where content is competition.

Yep. Consoles are sold at or even below the cost, because the real money is made selling games and accessories. It's the razor blade model.

It's not in Sony's interest at all to make super expensive consoles. In fact, it could be that without the technological arms race with Micorosft they could release lower-priced, lower specced next gen consoles in order to compete better with Nintendo.

 

[raul3d]

I do not understand why that notion of "arrogant Sony" survived this long.. Sure, most people think that "high product price" = "high margin" = "arrogant/greedy Company", but this wasn't the case for the PS3.

Sony miscalculated with the PS3. The PS3 was too ambitious and needed to be sold for such a high price. It was a premium product, not because it was simply priced high, but because the individual components were that expensive. The assumption is that the initial PS3 made 200$ - 300$ loss per unit at the initial release price of 500$/600$.

People are angry with NVIDIA because they have insane margins. With Sony and the PS3 it was the exact opposite, or am I missing something?

 

[bender]

I do not understand why that notion of "arrogant Sony" survived this long.. Sure, most people think that "high product price" = "high margin" = "arrogant/greedy Company", but this wasn't the case for the PS3.

Sony miscalculated with the PS3. The PS3 was too ambitious and needed to be sold for such a high price. It was a premium product, not because it was simply priced high, but because the individual components were that expensive. The assumption is that the initial PS3 made 200$ - 300$ loss per unit at the initial release price of 500$/600$.

Lot's of miscalculations by Kutaragi banking solely on the Cell and then relenting later on and adding the NVIDIA GPU which kind of reminds me of the hodgepodge that was the Saturn. And then you have Sony's gamble on the Blu Ray drive doing for the PS3 what DVD did for the PS2. I'd almost call it the curse of NVIDIA in consoles but the Switch broke the streak.

 

[RoboFu]

Sony and Nintendo's competition is progress. The dedicated console ONLY model is quickly disappearing.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Imagine not understanding that Nvidia's costs have gone up a lot and that is being passed on to video card buyers. I don't get why PC gamers bitch and moan about Nvidia prices 24/7 and then walk over to the Apple Store to buy their next $1,400 iPhone

 

[MisterXDTV]

Sony still has to compete for time and money even without Xbox

And with current PC hardware prices, they can gain even more market share....

Digital Foundry is comparing the PS5 to a fucking €700 GPU...

PS5 Pro will fly off the shelves

 

[clintar]

You mean winning? They been there, done that

 

[Mahavastu]

remember before the launch in 2020, when both XBox and Playstation did not wanted to announce the price, because none of them wanted to be more expensive then the other one? (the Price was leaked in the end and forced announcement). If this pressure is gone there is a chance that the price goes up.

BUT: Sony earns from subscription and game sales and therefore needs Console sales.
The higher the console price, the smaller the console sales, the smaller the rest of the business, the lower the market share. Therefore there is an upper limit for the console price.
The PC is always there as a competition. If the console gets to expensive, more people will buy PC and Sony loses game sales and its "everything has to be on Playstation" status.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I do not understand why that notion of "arrogant Sony" survived this long.. Sure, most people think that "high product price" = "high margin" = "arrogant/greedy Company", but this wasn't the case for the PS3.

Sony miscalculated with the PS3. The PS3 was too ambitious and needed to be sold for such a high price. It was a premium product, not because it was simply priced high, but because the individual components were that expensive. The assumption is that the initial PS3 made 200$ - 300$ loss per unit at the initial release price of 500$/600$.

People are angry with NVIDIA because they have insane margins. With Sony and the PS3 it was the exact opposite, or am I missing something?

THIS....

I remember that stand-alone Blu-ray players were sold for €1000 at the time PS3 was sold for €600 in 2006-2007

It was a pretty good deal for what you were getting....

 

[Radical_3d]

I do not understand why that notion of "arrogant Sony" survived this long.. Sure, most people think that "high product price" = "high margin" = "arrogant/greedy Company", but this wasn't the case for the PS3.

Sony miscalculated with the PS3. The PS3 was too ambitious and needed to be sold for such a high price. It was a premium product, not because it was simply priced high, but because the individual components were that expensive. The assumption is that the initial PS3 made 200$ - 300$ loss per unit at the initial release price of 500$/600$.

People are angry with NVIDIA because they have insane margins. With Sony and the PS3 it was the exact opposite, or am I missing something?

You aren’t missing anything. Plus was on that era where the foundations for the first party output from Sony were founded.

 

[Mister Wolf]

You mean winning? They been there, done that

I mean price gouging.

 

[Gaelyon]

So if Nintendo isn't competing with Sony (and Xbox) -> Nintendo has no competition in their own segment -> Nintendo has monopoly in their bracket. So just look at Nintendo to see what Sony could become.

Also Console price must remain affordable as the doorway to your content. You don't buy games if you can't afford the console.

 

[Stooky]

No Sony wants to make sure they can get playstations in as many hands as financially possible. On another note i'm patiently waiting for apple to step in the ring.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Publishers aren’t doing well enough with one platform completely gone.

Switch 2 becomes the hottest console, and thus becomes the target platform for new releases, because it makes more financial sense to release games on all three.

As for pricing I can absolutely see Sony pushing for $80 base games on PS6. BC will only cover PS5 games. No further patches for PS4 games.
Increase in PS Plus fees.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Publishers aren’t doing well enough with one platform completely gone.

Switch 2 becomes the hottest console, and thus becomes the target platform for new releases, because it makes more financial sense to release games on all three.

Have you seen Xbox store software sale numbers???

It's an irrelevant platform at this point

Sony, Nintendo and Steam is all that matters

 

[SmokedMeat]

Have you seen Xbox store software sale numbers???

It's an irrelevant platform at this point

Sony, Nintendo and Steam is all that matters

Doesn’t matter in the eyes of publishers, that’s a source of money gone.

With the ever rising costs of game development Switch 2 will now be part of the multiplatform grouping.

Apple might also join the multiplatform grouping, They won’t be releasing a console though.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Doesn’t matter in the eyes of publishers, that’s a source of money gone.

Source of money that gets you very little money compared to the other ones...

It matters, a lot!

 

[NikuNashi]

If it become legit where everyone buying PlayStation consoles. And buying all the games on that platform. Yeah, get ready for 700 consoles for launch. Who knows what else. Cause Nintendo and Sony really just don’t compete against each other to be honest. But also, if it goes that way. Slowly but surely, as long pc keeps doing what they doing and everything stay smooth. More and more ppl just go pc. Then PlayStation will slowly die as a hardware and be more just a software selling there games and services on pc and what else

Jeez I've read a lot of crazy posts this week but this is up there, Playstation slowly dying and become third party!.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

You realize they still want to sell more playstations. They're in the endless growth vortex like anyone else.

Try this logic out - If Nintendo doesn't count as direct competition, and therefore has no direct competition, how do they manage to keep the quality up and the customers happy?

That's not what happens when you lose direct competition. Prices always go up. That is why the EU pushed out the Digital Markets Act and identified gatekeepers in each market. With Microsoft exiting hardware, Song by it's previous definition will 100% be classified as a gatekeeper and receive more scrutiny.

 

[Badlucktroll]

If Apple comes in with an affordable, custom gaming chip m series powered, icloud integrated home console and buys valve or something crazy, it will rip everyone a new asshole

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

They are mostly making money on software so they would shoot themselves in the foot if they decide to go Nintendo/Apple route (sell hardware with good margins).

Those are completely different routes, why equate them? Nintendo margins are nowhere near Apple's.

 

[LordOcidax]

Lol… Now Nintendo is not competition. How convenient . OP they are competition, thats a fact.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

OP has a point, and it's something you sad little console warring people don't think about when you celebrate the death of competition.

"Oh Sony wouldn't do that to us!"

Yeah, sure, keep dreaming. Let's hope you never have to wake up to that reality.

Projection much?

 

[azertydu91]

I find it funny that some people make this comparison ignoring that Nvidia has competition yet it never bothered them enough to not raise prices.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I find it funny that some people make this comparison ignoring that Nvidia has competition yet it never bothered them enough to not raise prices.

Because AMD fleeces just as much. $50 difference on avg is not « competition » that drives price down. It’s far different than the aggressive ATI, which was the last true competitor to Nvidia.

I haven’t checked the steam hardware survey since a while but it’s dire for AMD market share, it’s almost a statistical error. Unlike what GHG said early in thread, Microsoft has way more success in the last decade by far than AMD vs Nvidia. Worldwide (not in Xbox favour) they had 42% in 2020, 35% in 2021, then it dropped, 12% 2022. But AMD is having wet dreams of even coming close to this in the past decade. Or Sony wish it was as dominant as Nvidia

What will happen is that Microsoft will make bank by this move. Is there any doubt?

Investors will then ask Sony.. why not me? I want more money. Why do you bother with low margin plastic boxes? You can triple gaming revenue. Just you watch. It’s the beginning of the inevitable end of these silly boxes.

 

[Braag]

It would be financially very dumb not to.

 

[WitchHunter]

Watch as Nvidia enters gaming with everything procedural (tm).

 

[GHG]

Because AMD fleeces just as much. $50 difference on avg is not « competition » that drives price down. It’s far different than the aggressive ATI, which was the last true competitor to Nvidia.

It's not fleecing, their operating margins almost went negative last year:

They've just been unwilling to make sacrifices and go into the red in order to try and entice people away from Nvidia. I've been hard on AMD in recent years, because I think their R&D and marketing teams have a lot to answer for and have greatly contributed towards their current predicament, but they are stuck between a rock and hard place. The question is, do you risk going out of business in order to try and compete with nvidia in the desktop consumer GPU space and is it worth it when that doesn't even represent the biggest proportion of your business?

I haven’t checked the steam hardware survey since a while but it’s dire for AMD market share, it’s almost a statistical error. Unlike what GHG said early in thread, Microsoft has way more success in the last decade by far than AMD vs Nvidia. Worldwide (not in Xbox favour) they had 42% in 2020, 35% in 2021, then it dropped, 12% 2022. But AMD is having wet dreams of even coming close to this in the past decade. Or Sony wish it was as dominant as Nvidia

Xbox is propped up by their sales in the UK and US. In most countries their situation vs Sony is worse than the AMD vs Nvidia one.

Investors will then ask Sony.. why not me? I want more money. Why do you bother with low margin plastic boxes? You can triple gaming revenue. Just you watch. It’s the beginning of the inevitable end of these silly boxes.

Not a chance when they also make a killing through playstation store royalties. That's a big reason why Xbox are currently fucked. Nobody is buying games on their platform, even 3rd party games have suffered due to the habits and attitudes gamepass has created. They are losing money from all possible angles.

 

[Elektro Demon]

I doubt it.

 

[azertydu91]

Because AMD fleeces just as much. $50 difference on avg is not « competition » that drives price down. It’s far different than the aggressive ATI, which was the last true competitor to Nvidia.

I haven’t checked the steam hardware survey since a while but it’s dire for AMD market share, it’s almost a statistical error. Unlike what GHG said early in thread, Microsoft has way more success in the last decade by far than AMD vs Nvidia. Worldwide (not in Xbox favour) they had 42% in 2020, 35% in 2021, then it dropped, 12% 2022. But AMD is having wet dreams of even coming close to this in the past decade. Or Sony wish it was as dominant as Nvidia

What will happen is that Microsoft will make bank by this move. Is there any doubt?

Investors will then ask Sony.. why not me? I want more money. Why do you bother with low margin plastic boxes? You can triple gaming revenue. Just you watch. It’s the beginning of the inevitable end of these silly boxes.

Wow calm down dude, I was just making a point that Nvidia have competition and still raises prices, just like sony will still have competition from Nintendo and if Xbox goes the OEM way they will have even more competition.So that sony will have a boulevard to raise prices etc ...
I am not so sure even moreso I think sony learned from the ps3's mistakes, it was the worst gen for them because it was too damn expensive.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Have you seen Xbox store software sale numbers???

It's an irrelevant platform at this point

Sony, Nintendo and Steam is all that matters

Can you share Microsofts store sale numbers, please?

Or is there a link to view them? would be interesting to see breakdowns of sales.

 

[Allandor]

This isn't a concern troll thread. I legit want to know what you guys think will happen now that Xbox consoles wont matter anymore. I don't consider Nintendo a direct competitor with Sony simply because there are performance limitations with them selling a portable in the type of gaming experiences they can provide. Will the Switch 2 be able to play GTA6? Possibly. Does anyone really want to experience that version limited by that hardware blown up on a big screen TV? Thats my point. We know how Nvidia treats us customers. We are at their mercy. Will Sony do the same?

I'm not sure about this thread, has anything announced yet?
So far everything are rumors including a new Xbox in 2026.

So if the rumors (that always existed) are correct, this is really bad for console buyers. Today's markets are so big that there is no company that could launch a competitive product other than Nintendo and they don't have any interest in a hardware race.
Sony always showed what they do if there is no competition. Higher prices all the way. No need to subsidize anything.

But the question is, if consoles are still relevant enough in the future as PCs are getting easy enough for anyone (steamdeck etc.) to get and play on it. Only thing might be the price.
I would also guess that sony than leaves the PC market again, because it is no longer necessary to compete with another console.

 

[BlackTron]

So if they had the hubris to price it at effectively $900 back in 2006 when they had competition, what's to stop them now?

Remorse?

 

[Bond007]

Im ok with slightly pricier consoles to push the limits alittle.
As of now both companies are crawling due to trying to hit low thresholds for people to bite.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The idea that there's no competition is false.

This is an industry where content is competition.

Fucking thank you!!!

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wow calm down dude, I was just making a point that Nvidia have competition

They don't, not really. I am calm.

Nvidia is such a monopoly, I don't think you get it. Nothing in console space is close.

 

[Celine]

The number of games shared between Nintendo and PlayStation was never has high as it is today.
It's kind of unprecedent actually.
The idea that Nintendo is in a universe apart from PlayStation is silly.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The number of games shared between Nintendo and PlayStation was never has high as it is today.
It's kind of unprecedent actually.
The idea that Nintendo is in a universe apart from PlayStation is silly.

Well they are a universe apart....

Nintendo sells a portable console with an HDMI OUT, Sony makes a traditional home console

 

[reinking]

I am not too worried about it. Sony has expressed concern in the past about losing consumers to PC gaming. They still have to compete with Nintendo regardless of what fearmongers want to think. Xbox is still going to be around in some form. To put it simply, Sony will still have competition and if Sony jacks the price too high I will just stop buying PlayStation consoles. I am more worried about Microsoft pimping out the Xbox hardware to third parties. That is going to be the driving force to higher console prices.

 

[Gojiira]

No, without Xbox trying to run them out of business they can focus entirely on what makes them money - Software…So I expect they will become more aggressive on that front, they will want to have the games that people must have and cant put down, Idk time will tell, but I dont expect them to start fucking people over.

 

[azertydu91]

They don't, not really. I am calm.

Nvidia is such a monopoly, I don't think you get it. Nothing in console space is close.

So you do agree that sony will still have more competition than Nvidia which was basically my point.Just like people saying Nintendo does not count, so Nintendo has no competition but somehow its okay for them, unless they are actually a competitor to sony just when it fits a narrative.

 

[meech]

Switch is on the verge of being the best selling console of all time but some reason doesn't count as competition.

How many people play games like Cod, Battlefield, Gta on Switch again?

 

[Sanepar]

yeah because Nintendo doesn't exist anymore...

 

[Ogbert]

Well Sony sure as shit isn’t in competition with Nintendo in Japan.

NeoGaf business takes are amazing.

This week, Microsoft is doomed, Nintendo is apparently not in the video game business and Sony are going to charge us £150 for Last of Part 2 the final remake remastered edition.

 

[Ogbert]

How many people play games like Cod, Battlefield, Gta on Switch again?

Does anyone play Battlefield?

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's not fleecing, their operating margins almost went negative last year:

RDNA 3 is a hog for sure. So much silicon. But RDNA 2 was their best competition versus Nvidia (imo) and they didn't stray the budget far from Nvidia, $50. Both Nvidia and AMD got hit massively by the skyrocketing prices of foundries with the pandemic. Yet all the cries for Nvidia being a thief... they're not having super high margins on gaming GPUs either. AI chips though..

They've just been unwilling to make sacrifices and go into the red in order to try and entice people away from Nvidia. I've been hard on AMD in recent years, because I think their R&D and marketing teams have a lot to answer for and have greatly contributed towards their current predicament, but they are stuck between a rock and hard place. The question is, do you risk going out of business in order to try and compete with nvidia in the desktop consumer GPU space and is it worth it when that doesn't even represent the biggest proportion of your business?

AMD knows they can't. Nvidia's budget is just enormous comparatively and a price war is what put ATI to near bankrupcy. Why even bother risking a business for low margin products anyway? They have their fanbase that will buy anything they do. Leave things as is, consider the dedicated GPU market as the "F1" team for R&D and make the higher margin APUs for consoles / laptops and high margin AI cards. Absolutely no reason for AMD to risk it for epeen wars that cumulate to what... 1% steam hardware? Those days are over. And they are smart for it.

Xbox is propped up by their sales in the UK and US. In most countries their situation vs Sony is worse than the AMD vs Nvidia one.

Yea for sure its dire outside US & UK.

Not a chance when they also make a killing through playstation store royalties. That's a big reason why Xbox are currently fucked. Nobody is buying games on their platform, even 3rd party games have suffered due to the habits and attitudes gamepass has created. They are losing money from all possible angles.

I think we're missing a piece of the puzzle. Microsoft is a huge business filled to the brim with smart peoples, I'm not kidding or being sarcastic here. You don't get to the #1 biggest company in the world with dumb decisions.

They could :

• Go 100% Digital
  • But my games? Blockchain. Same as bitcoin and crypto. You buy a key. It's yours. Want to resell it? Blockchain allows it. You want to sell it to Gamestop used? You can. You want to give it to a friend? You can. Same benefits as physical. Hell, with that blockchain based digital wallet, you could even resell your DLCs, rare skins, etc.
  • That keychain could perhaps also be valid for PC & Xbox simultaneously. Hell the tech could make it completely platform agnostic. Nintendo switch 2 accepts key? Could unlock game on switch. Samsung TV accepts key, Apple TV accepts key? etc etc. I doubt we would get there fast but I think Its inevitable.
  • The immutability of Blockchain makes it nearly impossible for hackers to alter in-game data or pirate it.
• Lower platform fees, but has to mean lower game prices (unlike Epic)
• Future console should have Windows. Yup, a PC. A Cheap PC that you know exactly the performance you buy for and unbeatable price from the usual DIY.
  • But I don't want to sit at a desk? Motherfucking WiFi 7. Have PC either connected 100% to TV as if you would use it as a console, or put it at your desk. Why not both? Stream the games via WiFi 7 dongle to TV with *Digital foundry can't zoom enough* near flawless compression and low latency as if wired.
  • Steam? Yes. Let Steam on it. It should be 100% a PC with a much more integrated Xbox experience on it, that you could benefit also on any PC. They need to put much more effort into the store, but if they put as much effort in Xbox as they would on PC Xbox app, things would be fine. Store would compete, but remember lower platform fees with lower gaming prices as stated above.
• Future console chipsets with AI focus.
  • Don't know if you heard but Microsoft is pouring more money into AI than what NASA did to go to the moon. Lower platform fees and digital only... What if we let the AI chipset run in the background when in low power mode or when you're not gaming with something that takes 100% of CPU to calculate AI in background. A giant cluster of millions of consoles crunching? You don't want that enabled? Game prices are higher to mitigate the lower platform fees then.
• Data selling. Of course. Is that something new?
  • Look at what they did with Windows / office / OneDrive / etc. They want as many peoples in as possible. Downright free (to a point) so they sell services, store apps, etc. They use telemetry, they sell data, they analyse data. You're a product. They're close to a $3 Trillion valued company by doing this so far. Gaming is to follow.

I'm not saying that gamers will like the direction, but inevitably, even when peoples bitch and moan about microsoft products (and apple products), we have the #1 (apple being #2) the biggest company in the world. Underestimating them as if they're gonna just lay down on the side and give up is funny to me and the comments I've read in the past days makes me chuckle a bit. The days of a single ecosystem plastic box is old news. This forum will melt of course, but what are we but a very niche statistical error in the grand scheme of the market share.

 

[MikeM]

Sony is still going to be checked by Nintendo and PC.

Charge too much for a crappy box? Consumers will likely look towards PC if there is better perceived value (i.e. $600 box + 7 years of subs@ $95= ~$1,225 CAD. Not a terrible gaming PC.) The otherside is always going to be Nintendo, especially if Series S goes bye bye next gen.

 

[Buggy Loop]

So you do agree that sony will still have more competition than Nvidia which was basically my point.

Your point all the way to my first reply is Nvidia has competition and still raised price.. I don't read anywhere in your original post that Sony has more competition. I read your post that Sony will raise prices because Nvidia did. I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly but basically, for me, Nvidia has little to no competition. Sony does and will. So basically no, I do not agree with Mister Wolf 's original post.

Just like people saying Nintendo does not count, so Nintendo has no competition but somehow its okay for them, unless they are actually a competitor to sony just when it fits a narrative.

Sony has competition and Nintendo & Microsoft is competition. Anyone arguing otherwise is... I don't know, not seeing the big picture?

Ask Sony how they felt when they launched Horizon Zero Dawn a week before Zelda BOTW released on *Nintendo not competition* Switch. Believe me they felt it. Same for a Mario game, etc.

Even if Microsoft ends up 100% 3rd party (which they won't), it would still be competition. All games are competing against each others for a given week/month/quarter. Microsoft will unquestionably become a giant publisher with all the studios they bought. Releasing a game every ~2~3 months eventually, that's competition against every other publishers.

 

[saintjules]

It sure as hell is a premature thread.

Didn't forums back in the day used to have threads go into pending review with mods before it goes live? Swore I used to see that before.