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[Lord Malachite]

Yeah, Xbox is clearly not their focus. It hasn't been for many years. MS has been clear about that - well, somewhat clear, but often obscured by Phil's doubletalk. But it's been pretty evident to anyone who's followed Xbox for the past decades that their priority is not the console hardware. Not for the past two generations, anyhow.

However, that doesn't mean the console hardware is unimportant to their overall scheme or that they are going to kill it in two or three years. I don't believe that will happen, for reasons I've spelled out earlier.


Yeah, that was a dud. Xbox's marketing has always been kind of shitty. It's been a real problem for them.



Well, the devil is in the details, as they say. How far off is "not far off"? This gen will be over in 2 or 3 years. Will it happen that quickly? Maybe? I mean, "all Xbox franchises" includes not just everything going forward, but their entire backcatalog as well, including the indies. I think it's too early to say whether all of that will get ported in two or three years. Tbh, I doubt it. I think some titles will remain exclusive at the end of this gen, even if it's just a handful of old ones and some indies. But neither of us really knows.



Agreed. Xbox gamers will be in an uncomfortable position if Xbox does not offer a next gen console of some type. Microsoft will have to do a Don Mattrick: "Want a next-gen Xbox? We have a product for you. It's called an Xbox Series X." whomp whomp. But I don't think that'll happen.

It feels like Microsoft fully intends to jettison Xbox as a traditional platform and shift gears to it being more of a launcher/distribution/publishing arm. There's absolutely nothing positive happening with Xbox hardware, and they've spent 23 years in this industry to come in third place every time. Their brightest time in the spotlight during the first half of the seventh generation with the Xbox 360 had its legs cut off mid-stride by the design mistakes that led to the RROD fiasco, setting them back massively and keeping them from dealing larger blows to the then-floundering PS3. While the 360 had to recover from that disaster, it gave Sony time to pick the PS3 up from its own faceplant. PS3 hit the gas hard in 2009 and never let off until the generation ended. Xbox basically gave up on major first party titles for 360 after 2010, focusing mostly on it being a Kinect machine.

Since the disastrous reveal, leadup, and launch of the XB1, Xbox has never been able to keep itself in good press. They gambled everything on Gamepass which clearly failed to go like they planned it to, and now they're in the untenable situation they find themselves in today.

Xbox's marketing continues to be terrible for sure. They don't seem to know how to advertise their product line in a manner that appeals to anyone who isn't already a loyalist. I don't think things will improve at this point as they seem to be winding down.

As for when Xbox's entire games library will come to PS5, I'd say likely by end of generation--though when I say entire I don't mean everything that's ever been published. I'm sure some forgotten titles won't bother with being brought over, but the main franchises and their entries will be. It seems that Xbox is far more concerned with getting its current titles over on PS5 than legacy stuff, and that's fine. But every title that comes over makes Xbox less and less relevant as a platform, so as Xbox continues to port games to improve its bottom line, it will be also continue to erode its own base.

Finally, as we stated Xbox gamers will be the big losers, as they'll eventually need to migrate to PS5 or PC and both of those come with significant expenses and headaches while also leaving their digital libraries behind. A bad look for Xbox as a whole and like a parting shot to the loyalists.

 

[ryzzz]

I mean professionally it makes sense.

Don’t nearly all workplaces have performance indicators that include sales/profit?

Anyone working for a company that can improve company performance/get a bigger bonus by boosting their own internal sales/profit numbers would jump at an easy opportunity to do so.

In this instance it’s opening up your software to multiple platforms.

 

[Justin9mm]

Stupid...just stupid.... I have all consoles,if my PS5 can play all Xbox games then why the fuck do I need an xbox again?

That's the point, you don't and they don't care you don't. It's about gamepass on anything that you can play gamepass on. They are going to make their revenue selling their games on other platforms, more money!

 

[Justin9mm]

It feels like Microsoft fully intends to jettison Xbox as a traditional platform and shift gears to it being more of a launcher/distribution/publishing arm. There's absolutely nothing positive happening with Xbox hardware, and they've spent 23 years in this industry to come in third place every time. Their brightest time in the spotlight during the first half of the seventh generation with the Xbox 360 had its legs cut off mid-stride by the design mistakes that led to the RROD fiasco, setting them back massively and keeping them from dealing larger blows to the then-floundering PS3. While the 360 had to recover from that disaster, it gave Sony time to pick the PS3 up from its own faceplant. PS3 hit the gas hard in 2009 and never let off until the generation ended. Xbox basically gave up on major first party titles for 360 after 2010, focusing mostly on it being a Kinect machine.

Since the disastrous reveal, leadup, and launch of the XB1, Xbox has never been able to keep itself in good press. They gambled everything on Gamepass which clearly failed to go like they planned it to, and now they're in the untenable situation they find themselves in today.

Xbox's marketing continues to be terrible for sure. They don't seem to know how to advertise their product line in a manner that appeals to anyone who isn't already a loyalist. I don't think things will improve at this point as they seem to be winding down.

As for when Xbox's entire games library will come to PS5, I'd say likely by end of generation--though when I say entire I don't mean everything that's ever been published. I'm sure some forgotten titles won't bother with being brought over, but the main franchises and their entries will be. It seems that Xbox is far more concerned with getting its current titles over on PS5 than legacy stuff, and that's fine. But every title that comes over makes Xbox less and less relevant as a platform, so as Xbox continues to port games to improve its bottom line, it will be also continue to erode its own base.

Finally, as we stated Xbox gamers will be the big losers, as they'll eventually need to migrate to PS5 or PC and both of those come with significant expenses and headaches while also leaving their digital libraries behind. A bad look for Xbox as a whole and like a parting shot to the loyalists.

Very well said! Finally someone who has been around long enough to have seen and understand what's actually happened. I swear half the GAFers on here sound like they started playing games yesterday.

 

[Smoke6]

What does it matter? If you like Xbox games, just buy them on your PS5.


Things change. He doesn't run Xbox, nor does he work there. The people he gets his leaks from can be right until they aren't and it seems like Microsoft keeps evolving it's stance over time. it happens.

This was all said around the time of the rumors about those 4 games!! Wtf you mean things change bruh!! He said this with his chest out and continued to do so even after Phil and co said as much

 

[Humdinger]

It feels like Microsoft fully intends to jettison Xbox as a traditional platform and shift gears to it being more of a launcher/distribution/publishing arm. There's absolutely nothing positive happening with Xbox hardware, and they've spent 23 years in this industry to come in third place every time. Their brightest time in the spotlight during the first half of the seventh generation with the Xbox 360 had its legs cut off [....]

Yeah, I agree with the historical picture you're painting - although we need to add the acquisitions, because they were a huge factor in this shift - and with the general trajectory going forward. We just disagree about how quickly Xbox hardware will fold. You see it finished at the end of this gen, and I see it continuing for another gen. To put it in medical terms, we both agree that the patient is terminal; we just disagree on how long he has left to live.

I assumed by "all Xbox titles" you meant everything, but you didn't. Thanks for clarifying. You mean all entries of the main franchises (Halo et al) and all the big future titles. I could see that happening - although, again, I'm not sure whether that process will be complete by the end of this gen. Although some things are happening faster than I expected, other things are going slower (e.g., I expected a Starfield port to be announced by end of the year).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

dude over here trying to make market research for Xbox.... but of course the reply uses Xbox's marketing to make fun of the situation. L after L. it's just comedy.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I mean professionally it makes sense.

Don’t nearly all workplaces have performance indicators that include sales/profit?

Anyone working for a company that can improve company performance/get a bigger bonus by boosting their own internal sales/profit numbers would jump at an easy opportunity to do so.

In this instance it’s opening up your software to multiple platforms.

did you miss the business update at the beginning of the year?

 

[Lord Malachite]

Very well said! Finally someone who has been around long enough to have seen and understand what's actually happened. I swear half the GAFers on here sound like they started playing games yesterday.

Being the ripe old age of 45, I've been through pretty much every console to hit the scene. The death of Xbox is probably the most unique because it's just an ongoing failure--never quite spectacular enough to force it out of the market, especially with Microsoft's deep pockets behind it; but consistently failing to win. This past year or so where we've seen major Xbox titles making their way to PS5, it's like we're watching an abortion in slow motion, Xbox slowly being killed off by its own parent. At least, Xbox as we know it anyway.

Yeah, I agree with the historical picture you're painting - although we need to add the acquisitions, because they were a huge factor in this shift - and with the general trajectory going forward. We just disagree about how quickly Xbox hardware will fold. You see it finished at the end of this gen, and I see it continuing for another gen. To put it in medical terms, we both agree that the patient is terminal; we just disagree on how long he has left to live.

I assumed by "all Xbox titles" you meant everything, but you didn't. Thanks for clarifying. You mean all entries of the main franchises (Halo et al) and all the big future titles. I could see that happening - although, again, I'm not sure whether that process will be complete by the end of this gen. Although some things are happening faster than I expected, other things are going slower (e.g., I expected a Starfield port to be announced by end of the year).

I think it will be sooner than later. How much longer are shareholders going to allow this division to completely tank in terms of hardware sales? There comes a point where the purse strings will be tied and the transition to a third party will begin.

Regarding specific titles, I do agree it will take time for all the major things to come over, but I can definitely see things like a collection of all the 360 era Gears Of War games getting dropped onto PS5, as well as a port of Halo: The Master Chief Collection. I would presume the other major Xbox tentpole, Forza, will be a lot more selective a release because of the prevalence of the Gran Turismo series on PS. But I doubt even that's off the table and Xbox may port over what it feels are the strongest and more recent titles to give gamers more options.

 

[Mephisto40]

I'll be very surprised if there is another xbox branded console at this point

It's going to be called a "GamePass Stream-Machine" or something equally dumb sounding

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Don’t ever let that Corden guy infect other communities

 

[Humdinger]

I think it will be sooner than later. How much longer are shareholders going to allow this division to completely tank in terms of hardware sales? There comes a point where the purse strings will be tied and the transition to a third party will begin.

That's already begun, as I expect you know. The acquisitions were the main stimulus for that. Got Daddy Sayta's attention, that did. Time for some accountability, boys! Time to make some money!

Incidentally, one reason I think hardware will continue - the main reason, really - is because it houses almost all of their GP subscriptions. And GP is central to MS's goals. When we agreed earlier that Xbox consoles are not their priority, the question then is what is their priority? It's GP (plus cloud streaming), and it has been for the past two generations. They aren't going to sacrifice the main source of GP subs, which is Xbox console hardware. That would make no sense in light of where MS has been trying to go.

Regarding specific titles, I do agree it will take time for all the major things to come over, but I can definitely see things like a collection of all the 360 era Gears Of War games getting dropped onto PS5, as well as a port of Halo: The Master Chief Collection. I would presume the other major Xbox tentpole, Forza, will be a lot more selective a release because of the prevalence of the Gran Turismo series on PS. But I doubt even that's off the table and Xbox may port over what it feels are the strongest and more recent titles to give gamers more options.

Yeah, I hope so. I'd like to replay some of the old Halo games. I was an Xbox guy originally. I was with them through the original Xbox and Xbox 360 era, then I jumped ship to PS4/5. But I spent many years on Xbox-centric forums and have always paid attention to what they were up to. Their downfall has been alternately sad and funny to watch. I kept waiting for them to give me a reason to "jump in" again, but they never quite got there. Now with all the newer titles seemingly coming to PS5, that ship has sailed.

 

[SneakersSO]

Isn't MS rumored to be working on what could be a more expensive premium console/hybrid? I am not blaming MS or Sony. I believe console prices are going up regardless based on the XBSX Galaxy and the PS5 Pro prices. I also do not believe any other company is going to come in and sell a console at a loss. I am not happy about it, but I have accepted that companies are no longer going to subsidize consoles.

You're correct on both fronts - console prices are set to increase, but the current plan for MS was to have a new high-end console launch that would've had a comma in the price tag. Theres a lot of factors influencing the increase in cost for consumers on gaming electronics, particularly because they have GPUs and GPU devices are set to increase in price due to having a natural market factor raising said price (GPU chips could also be used for AI processing, which means AI tech institutions are bidding for GPU production lines, which raises the baseline cost of GPUs across the board).

This isn't a situation wholly unique to console gaming either. It used to cost $1,000 - $2,000 for a mid-to-high range new PC, but now it costs $2,000 - $4,000. Consoles hitting the $450 - $800 range between Nintendo and Sony, not even including Microsoft, is going to really challenge the consumer set in the next 6 years, especially since almost all prices are set to increase once the new admin enters office and starts implementing tariffs. Word on the street is Nintendo has hesitated doing any public reveals of the Switch until they can actually figure out what they need to charge for it based on that factor.

Fuck yeah give me that gears goodness

Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza - you'll be playing all of them on PS in due time.

Incidentally, one reason I think hardware will continue - the main reason, really - is because it houses almost all of their GP subscriptions. And GP is central to MS's goals. When we agreed earlier that Xbox consoles are not their priority, the question then is what is their priority? It's GP (plus cloud streaming), and it has been for the past two generations. They aren't going to sacrifice the main source of GP subs, which is Xbox console hardware. That would make no sense in light of where MS has been trying to go.

GP is no longer their focus. That ended earlier this year. CoD has completely transformed the business model of GP. Its more accurate to think of GP now as a CoD subscription, given how much of the GP revenue goes to it. The restructuring of GP that happened this summer, along with the price increases, has solidified the growth ceiling for the service. No one at Microsoft under the illusion that GamePass will become this viral, Netflix-sized userbase anymore.

Microsoft Gaming is going to be entering a weird phase where all of their decisions and decision-making logic resemble that of a 3rd party publisher, only on a massive scale. What I mean by that is the biggest things that Xbox is now looking for is profitability from software, full-stop. If teams can demonstrate value, contribute to projects set to ship, bring in money in an ongoing capacity, and grow the overall audience share of 'Xbox;', or rather, just folks willing to buy Xbox gaming software, then you're safe. Otherwise, well - layoffs abound.

 

[Interfectum]

It’s truly astounding that after all the interviews, all the hype, all the claims Phil Spencer made about Game Pass revolutionizing gaming, the hardware choices, the endless damage control videos, and the massive studio acquisitions… all he’s managed to do is turn Xbox into an overinflated third-party publisher that’s likely to lay off thousands of employees in the coming years. Well done, Phil!

 

[Unknown?]

Being the ripe old age of 45, I've been through pretty much every console to hit the scene. The death of Xbox is probably the most unique because it's just an ongoing failure--never quite spectacular enough to force it out of the market, especially with Microsoft's deep pockets behind it; but consistently failing to win. This past year or so where we've seen major Xbox titles making their way to PS5, it's like we're watching an abortion in slow motion, Xbox slowly being killed off by its own parent. At least, Xbox as we know it anyway.




I think it will be sooner than later. How much longer are shareholders going to allow this division to completely tank in terms of hardware sales? There comes a point where the purse strings will be tied and the transition to a third party will begin.

Regarding specific titles, I do agree it will take time for all the major things to come over, but I can definitely see things like a collection of all the 360 era Gears Of War games getting dropped onto PS5, as well as a port of Halo: The Master Chief Collection. I would presume the other major Xbox tentpole, Forza, will be a lot more selective a release because of the prevalence of the Gran Turismo series on PS. But I doubt even that's off the table and Xbox may port over what it feels are the strongest and more recent titles to give gamers more options.

Share holder have to see how poorly it is doing. It's competing with an expensive PS5 accessory now(PSVR2) in the freaking states where it is its #1 market and getting close to Japan levels in mainland Europe.

 

[Humdinger]

GP is no longer their focus. That ended earlier this year. CoD has completely transformed the business model of GP. Its more accurate to think of GP now as a CoD subscription, given how much of the GP revenue goes to it. The restructuring of GP that happened this summer, along with the price increases, has solidified the growth ceiling for the service. No one at Microsoft under the illusion that GamePass will become this viral, Netflix-sized userbase anymore.

Yes, I overstated the importance of GP, especially now. I was thinking primarily of the past two generations, where it's clearly been the focus. But you are right, things have changed, and profitability is job 1 (and profitability seems to mainly mean porting games to PS5).

I still think GP is important to their overall goals, though. MS sees Xbox (MS games) as a service, and the main way of getting that service out there, on multiple platforms, is through GP. I mean, the recent marketing campaign, "This is an Xbox" can be mostly translated as "This is a place you can subscribe to GP." So although I agree it's been downgraded in the pecking order, I still think it's relevant, and I still think that's one reason they'll be putting out next-gen hardware - to retain GP customers and try to get new ones. Lowered expectations, though, for sure. Phil's vision did not materialize.

the current plan for MS was to have a new high-end console launch that would've had a comma in the price tag

Whoah. So, confirmation they are working on a high-end console, and that it would be $1000+? On the one hand, I'm thinking "see I told you," and on the other "Well, that's going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl." lol

 

[Fess]

did you miss the business update at the beginning of the year?

They should probably do another one. Going by this tweet they were sitting there lying.
Besides the case by case exclusivity thing they also said first or better on Xbox but how can they be better now if they have no mid gen refresh?

 

[demigod]

You're correct on both fronts - console prices are set to increase, but the current plan for MS was to have a new high-end console launch that would've had a comma in the price tag. Theres a lot of factors influencing the increase in cost for consumers on gaming electronics, particularly because they have GPUs and GPU devices are set to increase in price due to having a natural market factor raising said price (GPU chips could also be used for AI processing, which means AI tech institutions are bidding for GPU production lines, which raises the baseline cost of GPUs across the board).

This isn't a situation wholly unique to console gaming either. It used to cost $1,000 - $2,000 for a mid-to-high range new PC, but now it costs $2,000 - $4,000. Consoles hitting the $450 - $800 range between Nintendo and Sony, not even including Microsoft, is going to really challenge the consumer set in the next 6 years, especially since almost all prices are set to increase once the new admin enters office and starts implementing tariffs. Word on the street is Nintendo has hesitated doing any public reveals of the Switch until they can actually figure out what they need to charge for it based on that factor.

Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza - you'll be playing all of them on PS in due time.

GP is no longer their focus. That ended earlier this year. CoD has completely transformed the business model of GP. Its more accurate to think of GP now as a CoD subscription, given how much of the GP revenue goes to it. The restructuring of GP that happened this summer, along with the price increases, has solidified the growth ceiling for the service. No one at Microsoft under the illusion that GamePass will become this viral, Netflix-sized userbase anymore.

Microsoft Gaming is going to be entering a weird phase where all of their decisions and decision-making logic resemble that of a 3rd party publisher, only on a massive scale. What I mean by that is the biggest things that Xbox is now looking for is profitability from software, full-stop. If teams can demonstrate value, contribute to projects set to ship, bring in money in an ongoing capacity, and grow the overall audience share of 'Xbox;', or rather, just folks willing to buy Xbox gaming software, then you're safe. Otherwise, well - layoffs abound.

So we probably won’t get pricing for the Switch 2 until after January 20.

 

[Moridianae]

Yes, I overstated the importance of GP, especially now. I was thinking primarily of the past two generations, where it's clearly been the focus. But you are right, things have changed, and profitability is job 1 (and profitability seems to mainly mean porting games to PS5).

I still think GP is important to their overall goals, though. MS sees Xbox (MS games) as a service, and the main way of getting that service out there, on multiple platforms, is through GP. I mean, the recent marketing campaign, "This is an Xbox" can be mostly translated as "This is a place you can subscribe to GP." So although I agree it's been downgraded in the pecking order, I still think it's relevant, and I still think that's one reason they'll be putting out next-gen hardware - to retain GP customers and try to get new ones. Lowered expectations, though, for sure. Phil's vision did not materialize.



Whoah. So, confirmation they are working on a high-end console, and that it would be $1000+? On the one hand, I'm thinking "see I told you," and on the other "Well, that's going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl." lol

Price increases on the whole will go over like that. I'm sure there will be, indeed, a market for it but the backlash to the PS5 Pro was still pretty large at $700 with no drive. It sold within their expectations, but we'll see in regards to Switch 2 and further consoles(PS6, this box, the handheld from PS)

There is a limit to how far prices can go before the *mainstream* market reacts by just stopping purchases and we seem to be reaching that point(seen it in various brands, eating at restaurants, fast food, etc.)

The backlash to YouTube TV's increase was severe; people are just overwhelmingly tired of it.

 

[SneakersSO]

Whoah. So, confirmation they are working on a high-end console, and that it would be $1000+? On the one hand, I'm thinking "see I told you," and on the other "Well, that's going to go over like a turd in a punchbowl." lol

I mean, unless you just lay off the entire Hardware team, they're going to be doing something to justify their salaries right. The handheld and high-end unit are fairly public knowledge. The goals for both are somewhat different though.

For the handheld, its being positioned more in the sort of vector that Steam Deck is in, but for the Windows Gaming/PC Desktop app, over being an extension of the Xbox-hardware ecosystem itself. What that means is, imagine it as a handheld windows PC, with a wrapper for the PC Microsoft Gaming app that most PC users utilize to buy Xbox games or use Game Pass on PC. What they are hoping for is that it, along with them extending this OS to other handheld PC makers like ASUS and some others, is that it'll strengthen the userbase and onboarding of users into the Xbox PC/WIndows Gaming Store experience, as they are beginning to view Steam and the growth of SteamOS as a potential threat to their dominance over gaming in the OS space.

The high-end unit is being positioned more as something for their core console userbase, which is drastically shrinking , and at a rate they couldn't have anticipated. It will be available in fewer regions and markets than ever before, and even distribution in regions where they do have a market (NA/UK) may take on a more direct purchase approach instead of going with the method of stocking it with traditional retailers, aka -you buy it directly from Microsoft. It helps keep costs down and gives them a much more solid margin, especially when they already know the market ceiling is so much lower. Very similar approach to how they retail their Surface line. Its really only intended for the folks who haven't minded the turd in the punchbowl for the last 15 years anyway.

 

[Walter Matthau]

The Activision deal killed Xbox. The second that the executives at Microsoft realized that it wasn't going to move the needle like initially expected is when they began to pivot.

They really should have spread out the war chest more strategically instead of taking such a big bet on one move.

I guess we're going back to a duopoly in the console space for the first time in decades.

 

[LordCBH]

The Activision deal killed Xbox. The second that the executives at Microsoft realized that it wasn't going to move the needle like initially expected is when they began to pivot.

They really should have spread out the war chest more strategically instead of taking such a big bet on one move.

I guess we're going back to a duopoly in the console space for the first time in decades.

 

[demigod]

The Activision deal killed Xbox. The second that the executives at Microsoft realized that it wasn't going to move the needle like initially expected is when they began to pivot.

They really should have spread out the war chest more strategically instead of taking such a big bet on one move.

I guess we're going back to a duopoly in the console space for the first time in decades.

Phil Spencer killed Xbox. Dud after dud after dud games released under him. Should’ve focused on releasing good games instead of being an attention whore going on interviews monthly. Paying the media and social media shills backfired.

The ABK deal was just a wake up call to upper management.

 

[onQ123]

Being the ripe old age of 45, I've been through pretty much every console to hit the scene. The death of Xbox is probably the most unique because it's just an ongoing failure--never quite spectacular enough to force it out of the market, especially with Microsoft's deep pockets behind it; but consistently failing to win. This past year or so where we've seen major Xbox titles making their way to PS5, it's like we're watching an abortion in slow motion, Xbox slowly being killed off by its own parent. At least, Xbox as we know it anyway.




I think it will be sooner than later. How much longer are shareholders going to allow this division to completely tank in terms of hardware sales? There comes a point where the purse strings will be tied and the transition to a third party will begin.

Regarding specific titles, I do agree it will take time for all the major things to come over, but I can definitely see things like a collection of all the 360 era Gears Of War games getting dropped onto PS5, as well as a port of Halo: The Master Chief Collection. I would presume the other major Xbox tentpole, Forza, will be a lot more selective a release because of the prevalence of the Gran Turismo series on PS. But I doubt even that's off the table and Xbox may port over what it feels are the strongest and more recent titles to give gamers more options.

The people being trained to push the "Momentum/ Potential" angle probably don't even know that it's for the investors & shareholders not the gamers but they blindly run with whatever keywords they're told to push on the Internet. The upcoming year can't really hide Xbox behind the Activision/King numbers so they need for their games to sell on all platforms or at least make the investors feel that this new strategy has potential to turn things around.

 

[rkofan87]

Stupid...just stupid.... I have all consoles,if my PS5 can play all Xbox games then why the fuck do I need an xbox again?

The game passed demo service LO.L

 

[DryvBy]

It feels like Microsoft fully intends to jettison Xbox as a traditional platform and shift gears to it being more of a launcher/distribution/publishing arm. There's absolutely nothing positive happening with Xbox hardware, and they've spent 23 years in this industry to come in third place every time. Their brightest time in the spotlight during the first half of the seventh generation with the Xbox 360 had its legs cut off mid-stride by the design mistakes that led to the RROD fiasco, setting them back massively and keeping them from dealing larger blows to the then-floundering PS3. While the 360 had to recover from that disaster, it gave Sony time to pick the PS3 up from its own faceplant. PS3 hit the gas hard in 2009 and never let off until the generation ended. Xbox basically gave up on major first party titles for 360 after 2010, focusing mostly on it being a Kinect machine.

Since the disastrous reveal, leadup, and launch of the XB1, Xbox has never been able to keep itself in good press. They gambled everything on Gamepass which clearly failed to go like they planned it to, and now they're in the untenable situation they find themselves in today.

Xbox's marketing continues to be terrible for sure. They don't seem to know how to advertise their product line in a manner that appeals to anyone who isn't already a loyalist. I don't think things will improve at this point as they seem to be winding down.

As for when Xbox's entire games library will come to PS5, I'd say likely by end of generation--though when I say entire I don't mean everything that's ever been published. I'm sure some forgotten titles won't bother with being brought over, but the main franchises and their entries will be. It seems that Xbox is far more concerned with getting its current titles over on PS5 than legacy stuff, and that's fine. But every title that comes over makes Xbox less and less relevant as a platform, so as Xbox continues to port games to improve its bottom line, it will be also continue to erode its own base.

Finally, as we stated Xbox gamers will be the big losers, as they'll eventually need to migrate to PS5 or PC and both of those come with significant expenses and headaches while also leaving their digital libraries behind. A bad look for Xbox as a whole and like a parting shot to the loyalists.

The ending is why I don't know why people are buying Xbox games digitally anymore. You have to understand that digital stores do close and you're left with nothing but an NFT receipt. I've been a victim of this for movies and games before. Just because something is big today, doesn't mean it can't fall and stop working. Microsoft doesn't have a good history of keeping things not making bank open for long. Anyone have Zune songs that can still access?

 

[Humdinger]

I mean, unless you just lay off the entire Hardware team, they're going to be doing something to justify their salaries right. The handheld and high-end unit are fairly public knowledge. The goals for both are somewhat different though.

It is definitely not common knowledge around here. Many people believe that this will be the last Xbox console generation, that MS will not offer any hardware next gen. I have been trying to say, no, there will be next-gen Xboxes - one handheld, the other likely a PC lovechild - but getting resistance. It's good to hear the confirmation from a reliable source - you, I mean. Appreciate your contribution to the forum.

For the handheld, its being positioned more in the sort of vector that Steam Deck is in, but for the Windows Gaming/PC Desktop app, over being an extension of the Xbox-hardware ecosystem itself. What that means is, imagine it as a handheld windows PC, with a wrapper for the PC Microsoft Gaming app that most PC users utilize to buy Xbox games or use Game Pass on PC. What they are hoping for is that it, along with them extending this OS to other handheld PC makers like ASUS and some others, is that it'll strengthen the userbase and onboarding of users into the Xbox PC/WIndows Gaming Store experience, as they are beginning to view Steam and the growth of SteamOS as a potential threat to their dominance over gaming in the OS space.

Interesting. Sounds like this will be their "mass market" console.

The high-end unit is being positioned more as something for their core console userbase, which is drastically shrinking , and at a rate they couldn't have anticipated. It will be available in fewer regions and markets than ever before, and even distribution in regions where they do have a market (NA/UK) may take on a more direct purchase approach instead of going with the method of stocking it with traditional retailers, aka -you buy it directly from Microsoft. It helps keep costs down and gives them a much more solid margin, especially when they already know the market ceiling is so much lower. Very similar approach to how they retail their Surface line. Its really only intended for the folks who haven't minded the turd in the punchbowl for the last 15 years anyway.

Haha, okay. Drastically curtailing the marketing and distribution of it. Intending it only for the small number of people willing to pay that amount. A niche market product, perhaps.

Do you have any knowledge about whether Steam capabilities will be a part of either the handheld or the higher-end unit? There has been some speculation about that.

 

[MacReady13]

A bad look for Xbox as a whole and like a parting shot to the loyalists.

This was me. I was a massive Xbox gamer from the OG Xbox days. Got the 360 and I purchased all my games there (I had a PS3 as well but the 360 was FAR superior).

Come the time for the Xbone reveal I was still so delusional that I pre ordered and picked it up on launch day with around 6 or so games! I didn't pre order a PS4. Even knowing that Microsoft completely shit the bed on the 360 with Kinect and they were doing the same on the Xbone I STILL pre ordered that fucker.

About a year into the life of the Bone and PS4 I decided to get a PS4. It was shortly after that I migrated over to the Playstation camp and really left behind Xbox. And it was tough. And still is! I loved the Xbox brand. I want them to succeed but NOT with Gamepass. I loathed every time I turned on my Series X seeing Gamepass ads everywhere.

If Microsoft had been smart and started to foster relationships with devs to build up quality 1st party studios during the 360 days, they wouldn't need this rental service and they would be neck and neck or even ahead of Playstation!

As it is, they wouldn't know what they are doing and loyalists like me, who lived and breathed Xbox have now migrated to Playstation and PC (and Switch). I cannot support a company who gave me so much and then slowly took it all away cause they didn't know how to manage themselves well enough.

 

[onQ123]

The Activision deal killed Xbox. The second that the executives at Microsoft realized that it wasn't going to move the needle like initially expected is when they began to pivot.

They really should have spread out the war chest more strategically instead of taking such a big bet on one move.

I guess we're going back to a duopoly in the console space for the first time in decades.

No it was dead without it and the Activision/King deal was the life after death plan & a way to get onto other platforms.

Again I gave warning

 

[Humdinger]

Price increases on the whole will go over like that. I'm sure there will be, indeed, a market for it but the backlash to the PS5 Pro was still pretty large at $700 with no drive. It sold within their expectations, but we'll see in regards to Switch 2 and further consoles(PS6, this box, the handheld from PS)

There is a limit to how far prices can go before the *mainstream* market reacts by just stopping purchases and we seem to be reaching that point(seen it in various brands, eating at restaurants, fast food, etc.)

The backlash to YouTube TV's increase was severe; people are just overwhelmingly tired of it.

Holy shit, it's $83 a month? I don't sub to Youtube TV, but that's ridiculous.

For next-gen consoles, I don't think you could go much above $700 without severely curtailing your sales. $500 (launch price of PS5 in 2020) + 7 years inflation at 3% = $652, and we know that inflation has been higher than 3%, so it's reasonable to suppose console prices will be in the $700 range next time. I don't think you can go much higher than that, though, because a new console needs mass market adoption. MS certainly won't get it with their $1000-plus model. Their handheld will be priced lower, I assume.

 

[SneakersSO]

Haha, okay. Drastically curtailing the marketing and distribution of it. Intending it only for the small number of people willing to pay that amount. A niche market product, perhaps.

Do you have any knowledge about whether Steam capabilities will be a part of either the handheld or the higher-end unit? There has been some speculation about that.

No idea whether it will or won't have Steam capabilities, the high-end machine. If Microsoft wants to go the route of making it a Desktop Windows OS, a WIndows-Box if you will, then its certainly possibly they wouldn't need Valve's support/approval, but that creates a situation where unless its dual-booting into the Xbox OS as well, user's will not have their Xbox library intact, since an Xbox OS Sku and a Windows Gaming Sku of a game are different builds entirely, and thus breaks licensing agreements and digital libraries. Comes down to navigating a plethora of licenses with both 3rd party and Valve. Not just that, going this route would effectively end 3rd parties shipping 'Xbox' games, since as I said before, an Xbox game and a Windows Store game are two different skus/platforms, and developers just have not had a want or need to ship a Windows Store build unless Microsoft is providing kickbacks, usually in the form of a GamePass deal (these days anyway - although even those have come to a massive reduction this year).

I imagine the route they are going to take is going to be far more simple - ship a high-powered, very expensive, very market-niche product as the 'Xbox HW' userbase dwindles down to the core 10-15m users WW that are willing to show up for that. Shipping a windows OS box that has access to Steam natively requires a level of support that I just don't see them wanting to pay given what they are seeing on the HW interest side is nowhere near what they want from it.

Honestly, if it weren't for the subscription revenue Game Pass currently is bringing in for CoD, i'm not entirely convinced we'd be getting another non-handheld high-end Xbox console.

For next-gen consoles, I don't think you could go much above $700 without severely curtailing your sales. $500 (launch price of PS5 in 2020) + 7 years inflation at 3% = $652, and we know that inflation has been higher than 3%, so it's reasonable to suppose console prices will be in the $700 range next time. I don't think you can go much higher than that, though, because a new console needs mass market adoption. MS certainly won't get it with their $1000-plus model. Their handheld will be priced lower, I assume.

I do expect you to be right and $600/$700 to be the baseline MSRP for a PS6, and likely tack on another $100-$150 if tariffs do get implemented. As for the MS handheld, I also expect it to be quite expensive. An Asus Rog Ally goes for about $450 right now I think. I expect their handheld to be in the $600-$700 range as well.

 

[Astray]

No idea whether it will or won't have Steam capabilities, the high-end machine. If Microsoft wants to go the route of making it a Desktop Windows OS, a WIndows-Box if you will, then its certainly possibly they wouldn't need Valve's support/approval, but that creates a situation where unless its dual-booting into the Xbox OS as well, user's will not have their Xbox library intact, since an Xbox OS Sku and a Windows Gaming Sku of a game are different builds entirely, and thus breaks licensing agreements and digital libraries. Comes down to navigating a plethora of licenses with both 3rd party and Valve. Not just that, going this route would effectively end 3rd parties shipping 'Xbox' games, since as I said before, an Xbox game and a Windows Store game are two different skus/platforms, and developers just have not had a want or need to ship a Windows Store build unless Microsoft is providing kickbacks, usually in the form of a GamePass deal (these days anyway - although even those have come to a massive reduction this year).

Not only does this licensing issue sound like a hellscape to navigate.. Are we really supposed to believe that Microsoft would do all this effort and pay a ton to create support for a Valve storefront that is not only competing with them via Steam OS, but also clearly not gonna pay them anything in terms of software royalties?

I think Epic might be up for that, but their take is even lower than Valve's, where will they find the room to profitshare with Microsoft?

Gamepass deals dwindling down is not a shock, it's been a minute since a big-ish 3P game got announced for gamepass day 1, they've been coasting on past deals for a while now.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Microsoft Gaming is going to be entering a weird phase where all of their decisions and decision-making logic resemble that of a 3rd party publisher, only on a massive scale. What I mean by that is the biggest things that Xbox is now looking for is profitability from software, full-stop. If teams can demonstrate value, contribute to projects set to ship, bring in money in an ongoing capacity, and grow the overall audience share of 'Xbox;', or rather, just folks willing to buy Xbox gaming software, then you're safe. Otherwise, well - layoffs abound.

This is interesting because, since Hi-Fi Rush (excluding Starfield, Diablo, and of course CoD) I think all of their games have underperformed at best.

 

[SneakersSO]

This is interesting because, since Hi-Fi Rush (excluding Starfield, Diablo, and of course CoD) I think all of their games have underperformed at best.

And this year alone, Microsoft Gaming has laid off 2,500 people, and thats not accounting for the few thousand folks they laid off in 2023.

Expecting more layoffs in 2025 is basically a certainty at this point.

 

[onQ123]

This is interesting because, since Hi-Fi Rush (excluding Starfield, Diablo, and of course CoD) I think all of their games have underperformed at best.

Kinect Adventures is the last Xbox console exclusive game that did big numbers like games do on Nintendo & PlayStation.

 

[Humdinger]

No idea whether it will or won't have Steam capabilities, the high-end machine. If Microsoft wants to go the route of making it a Desktop Windows OS, a WIndows-Box if you will, then its certainly possibly they wouldn't need Valve's support/approval, but that creates a situation where unless its dual-booting into the Xbox OS as well, user's will not have their Xbox library intact, since an Xbox OS Sku and a Windows Gaming Sku of a game are different builds entirely, and thus breaks licensing agreements and digital libraries. Comes down to navigating a plethora of licenses with both 3rd party and Valve. Not just that, going this route would effectively end 3rd parties shipping 'Xbox' games, since as I said before, an Xbox game and a Windows Store game are two different skus/platforms, and developers just have not had a want or need to ship a Windows Store build unless Microsoft is providing kickbacks, usually in the form of a GamePass deal (these days anyway - although even those have come to a massive reduction this year).

I imagine the route they are going to take is going to be far more simple - ship a high-powered, very expensive, very market-niche product as the 'Xbox HW' userbase dwindles down to the core 10-15m users WW that are willing to show up for that. Shipping a windows OS box that has access to Steam natively requires a level of support that I just don't see them wanting to pay given what they are seeing on the HW interest side is nowhere near what they want from it.

Honestly, if it weren't for the subscription revenue Game Pass currently is bringing in for CoD, i'm not entirely convinced we'd be getting another non-handheld high-end Xbox console.

I do expect you to be right and $600/$700 to be the baseline MSRP for a PS6, and likely tack on another $100-$150 if tariffs do get implemented. As for the MS handheld, I also expect it to be quite expensive. An Asus Rog Ally goes for about $450 right now I think. I expect their handheld to be in the $600-$700 range as well.

I wasn't aware of the licensing issues. That sounds like a mess. Sounds like Steam is a no-go, then.

So we're probably looking at a $1000+ PC lovechild, without Steam, designed to capture maybe 10-15 million lifetime sales, along with a $600-700 handheld to go up against the increasingly crowded handheld market.

Very interesting. Thanks for the insights.

 

[jm89]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Whoah. So, confirmation they are working on a high-end console, and that it would be $1000+?

 

[GHG]

 

[Astray]

You can tell he's in a severe depression while typing this.

 

[Moridianae]

Reads like "We're gonna port it to PlayStation and(possibly) Switch 2 and pull the rug out like Hi-Fi Rush studio."

I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me. Can you imagine the headlines wherein *another* Game Award winning studio gets shuttered by Microsoft?

 

[bitbydeath]

Many people believe that this will be the last Xbox console generation,

that MS will not offer any hardware next gen.

These are two different outcomes which might be where your confusion is coming in.

It can be the last console, and they can still offer new transitional hardware next gen.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

These are two different outcomes which might be where your confusion is coming in.

It can be the last console, and they can still offer new transitional hardware next gen.

I will recycle

 

[YeulEmeralda]

And this year alone, Microsoft Gaming has laid off 2,500 people, and thats not accounting for the few thousand folks they laid off in 2023.

Expecting more layoffs in 2025 is basically a certainty at this point.

Oef I hope they all find new jobs quickly.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Basically the mood at HQ

“Exclusive?”

 

[noob smokes]

You're correct on both fronts - console prices are set to increase, but the current plan for MS was to have a new high-end console launch that would've had a comma in the price tag. Theres a lot of factors influencing the increase in cost for consumers on gaming electronics, particularly because they have GPUs and GPU devices are set to increase in price due to having a natural market factor raising said price (GPU chips could also be used for AI processing, which means AI tech institutions are bidding for GPU production lines, which raises the baseline cost of GPUs across the board).

This isn't a situation wholly unique to console gaming either. It used to cost $1,000 - $2,000 for a mid-to-high range new PC, but now it costs $2,000 - $4,000. Consoles hitting the $450 - $800 range between Nintendo and Sony, not even including Microsoft, is going to really challenge the consumer set in the next 6 years, especially since almost all prices are set to increase once the new admin enters office and starts implementing tariffs. Word on the street is Nintendo has hesitated doing any public reveals of the Switch until they can actually figure out what they need to charge for it based on that factor.

Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza - you'll be playing all of them on PS in due time.

GP is no longer their focus. That ended earlier this year. CoD has completely transformed the business model of GP. Its more accurate to think of GP now as a CoD subscription, given how much of the GP revenue goes to it. The restructuring of GP that happened this summer, along with the price increases, has solidified the growth ceiling for the service. No one at Microsoft under the illusion that GamePass will become this viral, Netflix-sized userbase anymore.

Microsoft Gaming is going to be entering a weird phase where all of their decisions and decision-making logic resemble that of a 3rd party publisher, only on a massive scale. What I mean by that is the biggest things that Xbox is now looking for is profitability from software, full-stop. If teams can demonstrate value, contribute to projects set to ship, bring in money in an ongoing capacity, and grow the overall audience share of 'Xbox;', or rather, just folks willing to buy Xbox gaming software, then you're safe. Otherwise, well - layoffs abound.

So everything is a xbox is them admitting xbox is 3rd party and ppl are still in denial lol

 

[demigod]

And this year alone, Microsoft Gaming has laid off 2,500 people, and thats not accounting for the few thousand folks they laid off in 2023.

Expecting more layoffs in 2025 is basically a certainty at this point.

Honestly I’m surprised Ninja Theory didn’t get the axe like Tango and Arkane. Maybe its because the studio was bought and not came packaged with a publisher?

 

[Skifi28]

Honestly I’m surprised Ninja Theory didn’t get the axe like Tango and Arkane. Maybe its because the studio was bought and not came packaged with a publisher?

Maybe they're waiting to fire them after they port the game.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Ah. SneakersSO in here. Must mean there's some negative Xbox gossip he can spooge all over. Amazing he's still going 11 years strong since dropping all that info to Pete Dodd all those years ago.

That said, Jez saying Microsoft couldn't have anticipated the drop in hardware is ridiculous. Anyone with half a brain and some knowledge of the industry could see what was going to happen. I told my buddies this would happen quickly back when the 4 games were announced. We've since all migrated to PlayStation or PC and none of us regret it.

 

[LordCBH]

The bots downloaded their new marching orders.