will XBOX NEXT offer anything unique?

D

doncale

Banned
or will it be just a more powerful Xbox with improvements in the areas that Xbox1 was bottlenecked?

I'm hoping for some unique features. something reason for its existance. Nintendo is right when it says the industry cannot live on hardware spec upgrades alone. I hope Xenon offers something different also. even if its not 'revolutionary' like built-in internet (okay that might be reserved for Xbox Next PC) ... the real area of inovation seems to be the mass storage system. I think the flash memory drive or device could play a huge role in the creation of much larger game-worlds, in addition to saving files and enabling Xbox Live. the flash drive or flash memory whatever could offer MUCH faster streaming performance compared to the very lowend bottem of the barrel HDD in Xbox. what do you guys think? I also hope the controller offers something unique but honestly I dont have much hope for that, just a a refined controller-s.

well CES is less than 30 hours away.....
 
Well, there may be a point of diminishing returns, but you aren't going to see it next gen.

I expect a bigger leap from this gen to next gen than there was from the Playstation to Playstation 2 era.
 
I disagree 100% with that assessment Bob. Graphics are not going to improve that much between this and next gen. We are definitely seeing something closer to how it was when we went from 8-bit to 16-bit this time than we got when we went from 16-bit to the 3D era.
 
Mrbob said:
I expect a bigger leap from this gen to next gen than there was from the Playstation to Playstation 2 era.
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I think XBOX Live is the definitive leap of this generation. Online enabled console gaming was the innovation of this generation and I doubt the next generation will be able to beat that, especially considering they are somewhat backwards in some ways (no HDD, etc.) Graphics-wise, I don't expect miracles. As games start to be coded for HDTV resolutions, the huge leap in hardware will become much less significant as consoles meet the next PC gaming demon that is bandwidth/fillrate..
 
I think the reason for it's existance will be XNA so we get more ports from PC to Xbox.
Im hoping Xbox Next will be sort of like a plug n play PC for the living room.
 
Of everything, I'm most impressed with the new standard controller and it's versatility and capabilities (if everything goes as planned).

As for graphics leaps...It's gonna look good. I'm more excited about what all the processing power means in terms of dynamic-aspects of games. Hopefully A.I. is about to get much better....I can't stand scripting anymore. :(
 
doncale said:
Nintendo is right when it says the industry cannot live on hardware spec upgrades alone.
Click to expand...

I could not disagree with you more. Games like Half-Life 2 offer the most innovative experiences you can currently find, and more advanced hardware will only magnify the capacity for designers to create more intelligent characters in more lifelike worlds.
 
doncale said:
what do you guys think? I also hope the controller offers something unique but honestly I dont have much hope for that, just a a refined controller-s.
Click to expand...

Isn't there anything other than motion sensors that might improve/change next-gen controllers? I can’t think of anything. =\

I'm waiting for whatever nintendo is planning to reveal. Honestly though sometimes I wonder if they really do have something special. I mean they talked about how their cube controllers had some hidden features and were afraid of the competition stealing them but in the end they turned out to be the clicks at the end of the L-R triggers. >_>

well CES is less than 30 hours away.....
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Oh yes. XD
 
tahrikmili said:
...a huge leap in hardware will become much less significant as consoles meet the next PC gaming demon that is bandwidth/fillrate..
Click to expand...

As a console only gamer could someone fill me in on what bandwidth/fillrate is and why its a demon?
 
Xenon will probably be the standard upgrade we're all expecting.

The most off-the-beaten-path features I would expect being even remotely possible are:

-Built-in 802.11g
-Either only wireless controllers, or built in rf receiver/transmitter in the console for a first party wireless controller
-Perhaps a more involved dashboard with a few unexpected features.

Really, there's probably nothing interesting in there. The visible innovation is probably going to be Nintendo's business, and the creative hardware architecture is definitely Sony's department this round.

But then, you really shouldn't expect anything but a graphical upgrade in the default console given how Microsoft's rushing it into the market.
 
I can give some solid controller details..

First off, there's nothing quirky. No touch-screens, gyroscopic thingers, etc. It's basically a refined Xbox1 controller with a few technical enhancements to make it more versatile and comfortable.
 
Liquid_Bike said:
As a console only gamer could someone fill me in on what bandwidth/fillrate is and why its a demon?
Click to expand...

As the resolution increases the number of pixels that need to be pushed through the Video Processing Unit and between the VPU/RAM increases dramatically. As a result, it's easier to do high polygon models and high res textures in lower resolutions (PAL/NTSC) but it will be significantly harder to push those pixels through with HDTV resolutions that have four times as many pixels on screen or something.. In PCs, higher resolution gaming and/or anti-aliasing/anisotropic filtering is very much dependent on the VPU's fillrate (number of pixel shaders, pixel shader performance) and memory bandwidth (VRAM speed), as these are the deciding factors in determining how many pixels can be pushed through. You can see how this problem with the XBOX currently as the number of shaders and high quality models in games increase, the filtering is dropped to trilinear or even bilinear from anisotropic in order to save bandwidth..

Now, I honestly don't have a clue about the X2 or PS3's GPU's memory bandwidth, but if they are using currently available GDDR3 technology and not some UFO-tech I'm not expecting miracles..
 
Nerevar said:
I could not disagree with you more. Games like Half-Life 2 offer the most innovative experiences you can currently find, and more advanced hardware will only magnify the capacity for designers to create more intelligent characters in more lifelike worlds.
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"Alone" is the operative word. Game engines, 3D hardware, raw CPU power, those things don't make good games, good game designers do. For every Half Life 2, you have a Matrix Reloaded; for every Vice City, you have a DRIV3R.

What Nintendo and Microsoft are saying is that graphics and hardware shouldn't be the *focus*, no one's dismissing it completely.
 
doncale said:
well then Xbox Next has almost no chance of disappointing you :)
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Yeah pretty much. And I'm fine with that. :D

I guess it would be cool if somehow they could expand the amount of players allowed in multiplayer games. That would be sweet.

Oh, and it should give you hand-jobs. Yeah hand-jobs are a huge system seller.
 
fugimax said:
I can give some solid controller details..

First off, there's nothing quirky. No touch-screens, gyroscopic thingers, etc. It's basically a refined Xbox1 controller with a few technical enhancements to make it more versatile and comfortable.
Click to expand...

Technical enhancements like what? Anything new or exciting?
 
As the resolution increases the number of pixels that need to be pushed through the Video Processing Unit and between the VPU/RAM increases dramatically.
Click to expand...
There's a reason Xbox2 has a big hunk of RAM to go with the VPU that perfectly fits a 720p frame.
 
fugimax said:
There's a reason Xbox2 has a big hunk of RAM to go with the VPU that perfectly fits a 720p frame.
Click to expand...

And I'm not saying it will be released dysfunctional or underpowered. I'm just saying it won't be miraculously futureproof or advanced as it's generally assumed. Of course, I may be totally wrong :D
 
Nerevar said:
I could not disagree with you more. Games like Half-Life 2 offer the most innovative experiences you can currently find, and more advanced hardware will only magnify the capacity for designers to create more intelligent characters in more lifelike worlds.
Click to expand...

Great post, I was thinking the same thing.
 
doncale said:
just a more powerful Xbox with improvements in the areas that Xbox1 was bottlenecked
Click to expand...

That's all I'm expecting, or wanting at the moment. Many games could be greatly improved with a more powerful console, especially the ambitious ones like GTA and TES.
 
----------
Nintendo is right when it says the industry cannot live on hardware spec upgrades alone
----------


I think it can. I'm not sure THEY can though. With 3 hardware manufacturers, they gotta put something unique on the table to get people to notice. Especially after this gen and M$'s success.

I think we've almost reached a limit to how much "new" stuff can actually be added to hardware. We've probably maxed out the number and types of buttons being added to controllers. We have nice 3d control in analogue sticks and precise movement in optional mice. The only other thing possible are probably touch screens, which are probably unnecessary.

Hardware wise we can already play people throughout the world online. We got hardrives that proved unnecessary in the long run. Really, all that's left IMO is just making everything better with better tech. Better online communication, play and stats. Better visuals, worlds, and AI. Better everything.
 
Yeah. 640k was enough for everything too. We'll never need more RAM.

There will always be uses for more powerful hardware, but the problem is that the general public isn't going to see the differences so profoundly anymore from one gen to the next.
 
Future said:
----------
Nintendo is right when it says the industry cannot live on hardware spec upgrades alone
----------


I think it can. I'm not sure THEY can though. With 3 hardware manufacturers, they gotta put something unique on the table to get people to notice. Especially after this gen and M$'s success.

I think we've almost reached a limit to how much "new" stuff can actually be added to hardware. We've probably maxed out the number and types of buttons being added to controllers. We have nice 3d control in analogue sticks and precise movement in optional mice. The only other thing possible are probably touch screens, which are probably unnecessary.

Hardware wise we can already play people throughout the world online. We got hardrives that proved unnecessary in the long run. Really, all that's left IMO is just making everything better with better tech. Better online communication, play and stats. Better visuals, worlds, and AI. Better everything.
Click to expand...

Revolution: Keyboard + mouse and/or wavebirdfor traditional control method; motion sensor technology new control method. TEH INNOVATION
 
Why do people call it Xenon? Can I get a link where MS officially said that that's the in-house name for it?
 
I disagree 100% with that assessment Bob. Graphics are not going to improve that much between this and next gen. We are definitely seeing something closer to how it was when we went from 8-bit to 16-bit this time than we got when we went from 16-bit to the 3D era.
Click to expand...

If anything, I would expect a bigger leap. These consoles are supposed to fully support 720p/1080i. That, and the hardware seems to be even more high end than last time. Isn't MS going to use multiple 2-3 GHz Power PC processors and a GPU that's equivalent to the XI800 XT? And Sony's got dual core 64 bit processors, and an equally if not more powerful Nvidia GPU.
 
Nerevar said:
I could not disagree with you more. Games like Half-Life 2 offer the most innovative experiences you can currently find, and more advanced hardware will only magnify the capacity for designers to create more intelligent characters in more lifelike worlds.
Click to expand...

This presumes that developers won't spend most of their time trying to harness the power of the new machines to create the best visuals possible at the expense of AI, then shove the whole thing online and push that as a valid substitute for traditional solo play. That's hardly a foregone conclusion, particularly when you're talking about a console from Microsoft, the company who would much rather gamers 'play together' to the tune of $50/year than spend time playing offline. :p
 
Tellaerin said:
This presumes that developers won't spend most of their time trying to harness the power of the new machines to create the best visuals possible at the expense of AI, then shove the whole thing online and push that as a valid substitute for traditional solo play. That's hardly a foregone conclusion, particularly when you're talking about a console from Microsoft, the company who would much rather gamers 'play together' to the tune of $50/year than spend time playing offline. :p
Click to expand...


bring back rolleyes please.

And for the record, I understand a certain percentage of developers are not going to make good games with the new power. But there are a certain group (Valve, Bungie, Bioware, Nintendo, Sony, etc) who will take advantage of that power to produce great games. And considering I only buy a small number of games each year, as long as the cream of the crop keeps getting better I'll be happy.
 
I swear that I'll be HD ready by the time the next console hits, so my complaint won't matter to me then but...

The current Xbox outputs color very poorly in 480i mode. Composite, S-Video, Component all look washed out. 480p is great but the non-HD color matrix is currently pissing me off. Hope they fix that next time around, but as I said, I won't let it affect me if they don't.
 
Nerevar said:
bring back rolleyes please.

And for the record, I understand a certain percentage of developers are not going to make good games with the new power. But there are a certain group (Valve, Bungie, Bioware, Nintendo, Sony, etc) who will take advantage of that power to produce great games. And considering I only buy a small number of games each year, as long as the cream of the crop keeps getting better I'll be happy.
Click to expand...

This is my sentiment exactly, though I would have said "as long as the cream of the crop keeps getting creamier...." :)
 
I could care less about how much of an graphical upgrade it gets. I do expect a ton of new Live features like increases in the number of people allowed in each game.

It also seems like they could add a button or two on the inside of the controller where you wrap your fingers around it. Maybe one for the ring and middle finger on each side.
 
Nerevar said:
bring back rolleyes please.
Click to expand...

Fine, roll your eyes. It doesn't change the fact that relatively little attention's been spent on AI this generation, while a great emphasis has been placed on squeezing out more realistic visuals from the current hardware. Then, when you end up with a lovely-looking racer/shooter/what have you with enemies that are dumb as stumps, netcode gets slapped onto the final product and it gets shoved out the door as an 'online-focused' game. PGR 2's braindead AI comes to mind, as does the lacking single-player campaign in MechAssault 2. Despite the solid AI in the campaign game, there are no bots in Halo 2 multiplayer, ostensibly because bots didn't fit with Bungie's design philosophy (or bots are inherently 'cheap' and frustrating to play against, depending on which interview you prefer to believe). And I do believe that this stems at least in part from the urgings of MS brass, who would rather see people playing games on Live and might even consider a somewhat lackluster single-player experience incentive to get online and get to the 'fun part' of the game. Needless to say, that's not a philosophy I'm partial to. Online play isn't a valid substitute for a good, strong single-player component with solid opponent AI.

I'd like to see more innovative things done with AI, like RPG's where NPC's interact with one another behind the scenes and emergent behavior leads to the narrative evolving in different ways each time you play. Yes, something like that would be a tremendous undertaking, but with the exception of games like The Sims, few people have even begun to take baby steps in that direction. Instead, it's all been about wowing the graphics whores and turning out prettier screenshots for the ad departments to build campaigns around. Call me cynical, but I'm afraid this won't get any better next generation. I hope time proves me wrong.
 
Why does everybody overspeculate things? There is no point with this topic. We don't have any official information so we basicly don't know.

I just hope next-generation will have more ninjas.
 
Best innovation would be to get rid of the black/white buttons and replace them with small shoulder buttons above the triggers :lol
 
RonaldoSan said:
Why does everybody overspeculate things? There is no point with this topic. We don't have any official information so we basicly don't know.

I just hope next-generation will have more ninjas.
Click to expand...

if by ninjas you mean more NG.. then no.

More fun please.
 
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