will XBOX NEXT offer anything unique?
- Thread starter doncale
- Start date
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Not having to buy a memory card was awesome. There had better be a HDD version of XBnext.
Exclusive Bungie, Rare and FASA titles should be enough to make Xbox Next unique. Other than that I can't say.
Exclusive Bungie, Rare and FASA titles should be enough to make Xbox Next unique. Other than that I can't say.
Kanbee-san
Member
XS+ said:
There was no gulf, it was a puddle.
There's not much point in supporting 1080p, since it will be several years before an appreciable number of households have 1080i sets, let alone 1080p. My guess is that all new machines will be aiming to support 720p for all games. That will be one of the main selling points - "next gen HD graphics out of the box."
Kanbee-san
Member
gohepcat said:
Baby steps before you walk. 480P still isnt in all households yet, let alone 720p.
Project Midway
Member
I will get the one with HDD and Halo 2.5 pre-loaded.
RonaldoSan
Member
Odnetnin said:
More ninjas in general...
Future said:
Such a lack of imagination...
There's a long way to go in human/computer interfaces for example. Nintendo & Sony at least should bring something more advanced to the table in that respect. There's talk of Sony incorporating much more advanced eyetoy-style technology in PS3, and Nintendo has said that there is an opportunity for themselves "to show their leadership" in that field with Revolution.
Rhindle said:
It's not so much of an issue with availability, it should essentally be free by next gen.
I would fully expect 1080p or 720p with 8xAA in all games. I mean for christ sake, you can do 720p in some games now. Your're telling me in 5 years all they are going to be able to do is 720p in all games?
MomoPufflet
Member
doncale said:
I agree with the principle, but it means nothing coming from Nintendo. When they start doing something truly innovative with hardware or games they can start spouting grass-roots fluff like this. Enough with the fucking state of the industry commentary-- show me this innovation you speak of Nintendo. Until then I will continue to enjoy my "hardware spec upgrades."
tahrikmili
Member
gohepcat said:
Doing 720p with DX8 shaders, shitty textures and shitty models is one thing, doing it with DX9+ shaders, high res textures and millions of polygons is another. And of course, doing it at 1080p is something else entirely. And unless the AA is going to be done on the GPU (which ATI never did..) then there's no way in hell it will be able to offer 8xAA at 1080p. I would be happy if it always had 8x anisotropic filtering enabled. TVs are much more forgiving about jaggies than LCD/CRT monitors.
imastalker co.
Banned
well, i heard that the rumor about there being multiple versions of the system is indeed true. PC games are thrown into the mix too.
so im guessing that that the upgraded model will do have full force windows everything. as far as media and all that stuff goes. wireless, all that good stuff. internet, and well, supposedly PC games too.
and of course, a console game only version that still does all the media stuff.
as far as what i think will come next gen. well, Sony is gonna go full force "multimedia". built in tivo, and stuff like that. micrsoft will go full force PC, and well, im hoping that Nintendo will start a tradition of creating new ways of making games every other generation.
they sure make it seem like the time has come.
so im guessing that that the upgraded model will do have full force windows everything. as far as media and all that stuff goes. wireless, all that good stuff. internet, and well, supposedly PC games too.
and of course, a console game only version that still does all the media stuff.
as far as what i think will come next gen. well, Sony is gonna go full force "multimedia". built in tivo, and stuff like that. micrsoft will go full force PC, and well, im hoping that Nintendo will start a tradition of creating new ways of making games every other generation.
they sure make it seem like the time has come.
Nintendo should stop with their self-righteous crap, the industry is NOT in a crisis, more quality games are coming out than they have ever been, the games are cheaper than ever and game sales are as high as ever.
It is games that drive the need for innovations in hardware, for example dual analog sticks and 3d games go hand in hand, along with racing games and wheels or flight sticks for flight sims or musical instruments for a music-based game, dance pad for a dancing game etc.. Building some gimmicky control scheme and forcing developers to use it is the completely wrong way to go around doing things. For example touch screen might be a logical choice for strategy games or adventure games and such, but not for the gimmicky minigame stuff Nintendo is trying to "revolutionalize" the industry with(and deservedly failing) and certainly not for traditional type of games ala racing, action etc.
Small things like analog triggers for racing games or the analog nub on the PSP are far more successful then gimmicky control schemes in terms of improving the controls.
We should look at what do games demand in terms of controls and develop the game/controls hand in hand, and NOT come up with something new and shove it down everybody's throat as innovative.
Not to mention innovation is NOT limited to controls as Nintendo will have you to believe, it can be in many other areas such as Physics, AI (very under utilized right now due to CPU limitations, and probably next gen also due to "human" limitations (i.e. not enough resources spent on AI)), very expansive and interactive game worlds.
The real limitation we'll be facing is not controls, it will be resources such as time, and programmers and artists (which all = money).
More powerful hardware can never hurt.
It is games that drive the need for innovations in hardware, for example dual analog sticks and 3d games go hand in hand, along with racing games and wheels or flight sticks for flight sims or musical instruments for a music-based game, dance pad for a dancing game etc.. Building some gimmicky control scheme and forcing developers to use it is the completely wrong way to go around doing things. For example touch screen might be a logical choice for strategy games or adventure games and such, but not for the gimmicky minigame stuff Nintendo is trying to "revolutionalize" the industry with(and deservedly failing) and certainly not for traditional type of games ala racing, action etc.
Small things like analog triggers for racing games or the analog nub on the PSP are far more successful then gimmicky control schemes in terms of improving the controls.
We should look at what do games demand in terms of controls and develop the game/controls hand in hand, and NOT come up with something new and shove it down everybody's throat as innovative.
Not to mention innovation is NOT limited to controls as Nintendo will have you to believe, it can be in many other areas such as Physics, AI (very under utilized right now due to CPU limitations, and probably next gen also due to "human" limitations (i.e. not enough resources spent on AI)), very expansive and interactive game worlds.
The real limitation we'll be facing is not controls, it will be resources such as time, and programmers and artists (which all = money).
More powerful hardware can never hurt.
Johnny Nighttrain said:
I wouldn't be surprised. A closer relationship with the PC was desired at Microsoft with the original Xbox, but they felt they couldn't risk it since they hadn't established their credentials as a console maker. Now that they have, I'd say they'll push a relationship with PC much harder. They've hinted as much with the XNA announcements (common controllers, shared online platform - extension of Live! into PC space etc.) and afterall, MS would be much happier if we relied on PCs for our games..
I'm not sure how the market would take to it though.
thorns said:
In fairness, Nintendo do develop their controllers for new systems in tandem with their own titles, so they are evolving it around the requirements of their games. But whether they're thinking of others in the process is another matter..
thorns said:
They're not saying innovation is limited to controls ("more powerful machines alone"), but they are saying that interface is the next logical area of focus for changing how people play games. In my own opinion, human/computer interfaces have lagged behind other developments in games. I think Nintendo's slowly trying to take the controller out of the equation, and they'd be right to, imo. The controller is the single biggest deterrent to people newly exposed to games. It's ok for us gamers who have grown up over multiple generations of systems and picked up the nuances of modern game controllers iteratively. But for someone starting out, they're faced with an entirely new concept with 10+ buttons etc and I'd say many wouldn't have the patience to stick with it. They're being thrown in at the deep end. I've seen it myself with my older brother who struggles with new PS2 games. It's complicated and it needs to change.
To provide another anecdote - I remember when my mother used to play the NES and SNES from time to time. She's never touched any of my current systems.
tahrikmili
Member
gofreak said:
Is your mother even a distant member of any of Nintendo's target markets?
I will not argue against the fact that the input interfaces are somewhat clunky, hell, in most console games I still wish I had a mouse, but solving it doesn't exactly require rocket science.. Most games out there that are difficult to handle with current gen controllers are the ones that need a mouse.
Just give us a goddamn mouse.
OK now to all the MS fans... don't get upset but... COMMON MAN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MICROSOFT HERE, this is a dumb question. A unique feature? Microsoft hasn't invented a "unique feature" in the software business the last... wait... how much years MS exists? Unless they buy someone to invent this unique feature or they steal it and then pay it's price in the courtrooms, it is impossible. I'm even surprised that you're discussing this.
Che LIVE may not be unique as such but the way MS package the system have set it up and run it, is. This type of "unique" option is where I think gaming should be going, yeah something like Eye Toy is a neat job but its throw away gaming, great fun for the family granny and grandad but its certaintly isn't going to move console gaming forward like something like LIVE can/ has done.
tahrikmili said:
No, my mother is touching 60, she certainly never had anything like a videogame as a kid. She played them when we got them as kids. Being honest, she HAS tried my Gamecube and Xbox, but simply couldn't grasp the controls. She probably could if she spent some more time with them, but it's not hard to see why she might be discouraged. The modern controller is far too inaccessible for the non-gamer imo.
And I'm not talking about controllers being "unsuitable" for certain types of games. I'm saying that for the unintiated they are far too complicated and subsequently offputting. Think about it - we went from one d-pad and two buttons to multiple analog sticks, 10+ buttons all over the controller, etc. We take it for granted because we built up our experience over multiple, increasingly complex iterations of controller, but newcomers don't have the benefit of that.
And before anyone jumps on me about this, I'm taking about making games more accessible (not simple or "dumb").
And yes, taking eyetoy as an example and its "throwaway games" is fine, but eyetoy isn't the end for that kind of technology. It's only the beginning and could be widely applied to most or all types of game in the future, in tandem with other technology.
tahrikmili
Member
gofreak said:
You may have a point but your example with your 60 year old mother certainly does not back this up, as she is neither an uninitiated nor a target..
tahrikmili
Member
gohepcat said:
If you keep everything DX8 level.. however if you also bump the shader lengths, poly counts and texture sizes at the same time.. That's what I was trying to say.
Pug said:
Live isn't a unique feature. Even a monkey could think of Live considering online gaming already exists in the PC gaming for years. The fact that MS made the move first (although it was too early) doesn't make them a pioneer. The online gaming would have eventually be embended in the consoles the next gen. And btw didn't DC went online first? Don't tell me by Live being unique you mean just the sound communication and other details...
tahrikmili
Member
Che said:
You are a certified dumbfuck.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Online gaming was second. CQC in MGS3 was the biggest innovationtahrikmili said:
I really couldnt be bothered reading through the whole thread, but I honestly think that there will be little difference between this gen and next. All I hope for is bigger and better everything, so I guess all the consoles will satisfy me.
ManDudeChild
Member
Che said:
No, Saturn did ... but Xbox was the first to really push online console gaming. That's the point. It isn't that they did it, it's HOW they did it. Much like Sony's online plans, online gaming in past systems has no infrastructure. It was just thrown out there, with each game closed off from the next. Xbox Live offers a hub if you will, turns it into a community. That is the push, and that's what will propel online gaming in the future. That's where the innovation comes from. The constant support, the amount of features, the fact that it isn't just thrown out there as a gimmick.
Che said:
WTH? How was Live made too early? The DC might have gone online first, and we can actually go back all the way into the 8bit realm if you want to find any form of online gaming, HOWEVER, Live was the first (for consoles) unified hub gaming network that combined a core set of functionality with a unified interface allowing much easier use for console gamers. THAT makes them a pioneer in that regard. No...Seganet does not = Live.
ManDudeChild said:
The infrastructure vs infrastructure-less argument isn't clear cut. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, from different perspectives (consumer, publisher, platform maker etc.). But the infrastructured approach did make Xbox Live unique, for sure.
Touch screens could very well be the best thing to happen to controllers if Nintendo does put one on each Revolution controller. Yesterday I watched two high school-age girls wonder why they couldn't just touch stuff on the screen to get dancing. Took them a good minute or two of trying to touch the screen before they found the buttons.
Touch screens are very intuitive and have many, many uses for gaming. Combined with more conventional analog sticks and buttons, I think it would be a big win to put that capability in the mix for both the home console and of course as it exists on DS.
Touch screens are very intuitive and have many, many uses for gaming. Combined with more conventional analog sticks and buttons, I think it would be a big win to put that capability in the mix for both the home console and of course as it exists on DS.
DarienA said:
Considering the number of Live subsciptions compared to the number of Xboxs sold (we're not talking just for North America here, xbox has been released all over the world) I would say that Xbox Live was released too early. Anyway I cannot consider something that has already used for years in other parts of gaming, unique, just because it is used for the first time in console gaming. It's like if the analog stick had been invented first on PCs and then Nintendo decided to introduce it on N64. Would anyone care? And aren't all the Nintendo haters (many of them xbox fans btw) making fun of the DS that its fuctions exist on the Palm PCs (although there a pretty big difference between the two of them)? And why Seganet does not equal Live?
ManDudeChild
Member
gofreak said:
Agreed, there are cases in which less infrastructure works, such as in the case of smaller developers titles that feature Xbox Live support. Updates, patches and so forth for example, are pushed to the side to make way for updates to the larger titles, with the infrastructure for titles thrown in the developers laps exclusively, such problems don't pop up as much. However, as you agreed, it was the infrastructure that gave Xbox Live the unique edge. I think the system needs a bit of tweaking, specifically with respect to smaller developers XBL titles, but by and large, it's the right approach.
Che your probaly correct that a monkey could have thought of LIVE, fact is that Monkey worked for MS and it was applied to Xbox. As I said they way MS structured and pushed LIVE was unique and has certaintly pushed online gaming on the console front much further than anyother company has although Sega do deserve a credible mention. And for your information the first time I ever played online was with PSO with the Dreamcast and it is still for me one of the best gaming exeriences I have ever had and was the main reason for me purchasing an Xbox. As for the PC I thought we were talking console features.
gohepcat has a good point.
when i try to get a non gamer to game the controlls kill them everytime and i get stuck playing games like pac man vs and mario tennis.
i have no luck getting anyone to even join me on halo let alone any other more complex controlled games. thatnk god for xbox live or i'd be dealing with ai only for the most part.
gofreak vbmenu_register("postmenu_829944", true);
when i try to get a non gamer to game the controlls kill them everytime and i get stuck playing games like pac man vs and mario tennis.
i have no luck getting anyone to even join me on halo let alone any other more complex controlled games. thatnk god for xbox live or i'd be dealing with ai only for the most part.
gofreak vbmenu_register("postmenu_829944", true);
Ok I've reread the doncale's post and since his standards are considerably low I have to say that according to his standards a unique feature can exist on Xenon. The way I see it, a unique feature is something we haven't seen in gaming ever before, and that affects the way we're playing games in a way that is, well, unique. Making a console-PC hybrid is not considered unique by me. The way others think of it, I could easily say that Xbox's HDD is a unique feature, or that PSP's analog controller is a unique feature because PSP is the only handheld that has it. But that way the word "unique" kinda loses it's value...
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
How about some good games that are not named HALO.
MomoPufflet
Member
How about Nintendo and Sony show us what is so mind-blowingly orgasmic and innovative about their next consoles before putting Microsoft under the microscope, sound good? Or better yet how about we wait for some actual playables of said orgasmic innovation.
MomoPufflet said:
Relax, we're focussing on MS because they're expected to announce something in the next few days. Nintendo and Sony will get their "day in the sun" too, so to speak, and I'm sure there'll be many questions posed regarding their expected strategy etc. at that time.
It will have better graphics, less hideous form factor than XBOX, smaller and less hideous controller, and will very likely make a profit. That should be enough uniqueness for MS. Hopefully wireless controller out of the box. It will also come with H3 and hopefully with NG2 with more enemies and an EASY setting for wusses like me.