Support NeoGAF

[mrklaw]

Absolutely. It will actually be the first time I've abstained from a launch in 10+ years, so small is the leap in launch games. Revolution is the only one I might get at launch since it will probably come out latest, and that's because by the end of 2006 current gen will have truly for the most part run out its welcome with high-profile releases finally drying up for good.

No way. You sound like you are trying to convince yourself. Wait until TGS when you see the (hopefully finished) 360 games and some reasonably developed PS3 stuff and then we'll see the real Amir0x.

i'm a little disappointed in X360 now, but I know all I need to see is a finished PGR3 looking even slightly as good as the trailers and I'll be all over it.

I guess its down to money. If you think there will be good games worth buying a machine for during its lifetime, then $50 premium is worth it to me to get the early 'wow' factor.

And lets face it, there'll be a drought after a couple months - there always is - so plenty of time to catch up with your PS2 stuff.

 

[Razoric]

You may be right. Hell, if I make a decent clip this summer I might even cave in by winter. But as it is, there's no "desire" to make the hop to next-gen yet across the board. Maybe TGS will change this feeling.

Seeing as how the E3 presentations were a joke (either graphically crap or pre-rendered lies) I can't say I disagree with you.

The difference is I have faith and you do not. Maybe TGS (like you said) or X05 (or whatever its called) will change that for you. :O

 

[Mrbob]

Absolutely. It will actually be the first time I've abstained from a launch in 10+ years, so small is the leap in launch games. Revolution is the only one I might get at launch since it will probably come out latest, and that's because by the end of 2006 current gen will have truly for the most part run out its welcome with high-profile releases finally drying up for good.

Looking at your game list, I see you are going to skip the X360 launch and buy a bunch of fluff titles instead. Some of the titles on your list are must haves, but I see 6 of them that are easily passable which would get you the dough to buy the X360. As for a small leap, I guess that depends on what you want in games. After reading the PD0 article in EGM and as long as nothing gets cut, it looks like the game may be doing a ton of extra things not seen in current console FPS games at all. Remember, PD0 is practically content complete and they are just prettying the game up now for launch. I can think of some more games too but I think we should wait until closer to November to truly determine the "leap".

 

[DarienA]

Well, an example for "pure horsepower" upgrade I would look at the GT series. GT -> GT4 you still have same bad AI, same low number of cars, no damage, no modelled interiors, no online, just prettier cars and tracks and better physics.

pgr2-> pgr3 you are getting a lot of extra stuff, of course it's a lot of horsepower increase, but they're not spending ALL that horsepower in more polys for the cars and tracks, if you understand what I mean..
For me, having fully modelled interiors is not just prettier graphics, it's a new feature. It's something that didn't exist in previous games in the series, not just something prettied up. The spectator mode will be something new if adding spectators will not be limited by the number of people already racing. i.e. if you can have 16 people racing and 16 extra people spectating , that will be new. Since information is so scarce right now, it'll be interesting to see.

They also mentioned vertex-based damage, so no more pre-modelled "damage states" for the cars. That is also something new.

....I notice you limited your comments to only PGR3....

 

[sonycowboy]

Well, an example for "pure horsepower" upgrade I would look at the GT series. GT -> GT4 you still have same bad AI, same low number of cars, no damage, no modelled interiors, no online, just prettier cars and tracks and better physics.

And he sticks in a little trolling to boot. :| You couldn't be more wrong. You could try. But you would not be successful. I'm not particularly interested in getting into a debate on the evolution of the GT series, but your summation is the worst kind of drivel.

Doom -> Doom 3. Hell, I still run around shooting stuff, getting ammo, blah, blah, blah.
Madden -> Madden 2006. Call plays, throw the ball, run the ball, kick field goals, blah, blah, blah.

It's very easy to be dismissive and critique ANY game using one's targeted criteria, but IMO, it's a clear sign of defensive fanboy angst.

 

[Amir0x]

No way. You sound like you are trying to convince yourself. Wait until TGS when you see the (hopefully finished) 360 games and some reasonably developed PS3 stuff and then we'll see the real Amir0x.

I'm not trying to convince myself, E3 did all the convincing needed. I don't see it yet. And certainly from what we know of the first system to release launch titles, this doesn't seem like it'll change for PS3 or Rev either. But yes, of course, final judgment at TGS.

i'm a little disappointed in X360 now, but I know all I need to see is a finished PGR3 looking even slightly as good as the trailers and I'll be all over it.

Not to get off topic, but I'm not a fan of the Gotham series. I'm looking to other games like Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero and (maybe) Oblivion to deliver the goods PGR3 looks great though visually.

Seeing as how the E3 presentations were a joke (either graphically crap or pre-rendered lies) I can't say I disagree with you.

The difference is I have faith and you do not. Maybe TGS (like you said) or X05 (or whatever its called) will change that for you. :O

Well, I don't know where the faith comes from since the leap is very small so far and previous launches have demonstrated pretty clearly that the leap is almost always very small at first in terms of quality ;P

But yes, X05 or TGS... we'll see for final judgments then.

Looking at your game list, I see you are going to skip the X360 launch and buy a bunch of fluff titles instead. Some of the titles on your list are must haves, but I see 6 of them that are easily passable which would get you the dough to buy the X360. As for a small leap, I guess that depends on what you want in games. After reading the PD0 article in EGM and as long as nothing gets cut, it looks like the game may be doing a ton of extra things not seen in current console FPS games at all. Remember, PD0 is practically content complete and they are just prettying the game up now for launch. I can think of some more games too but I think we should wait until closer to November to truly determine the "leap".

How did you determine what was 'fluff'? Please describe, in great detail, your criteria for defining fluff. Since every single game I listed is absolutely essential purchases for me without any doubt. Whether or not I make the money to afford everything I want is another story entirely. Also, if some of the games end up unexpectedly sucking... that's another debate for another time.

 

[Razoric]

well one thing that PDZ seems to do that i havent seen a lot of on this gen consoles are destructable environments... let alone destructable environments with pre-set bots, 64+ players online, etc.

It's really tough to argue this as of right now because we know very little details on a lot of these games. I just BELIEVE. :O

 

[DCX]

I support old gen systems after i hop on the next gen band wagon. I boguht Sonic Adventure 2 after i got my PS2, i buy PSOne games still...but i become a bargin hunter after i move on to the next gen.

DCX

 

[Mrbob]

I'm just saying you seem to be going out of your way to convince yourself to not buy X360. With your repeated posts over and over and over and over again in this thread about how hot current gen system game release are. I have a different point of view and am not excited at all for most current gen games coming out in the future. You make it seem like it is a sin to be excited about a console bringing us new franchises instead of current gen which is bringing us mostly retreads. That is all.

 

[sonycowboy]

You make it seem like it is a sin to be excited about a console bringing us retread franchises instead of current gen which is bringing us mostly retreads. That is all.

fixed

 

[thorns]

And he sticks in a little trolling to boot. :| You couldn't be more wrong. You could try. But you would not be successful. I'm not particularly interested in getting into a debate on the evolution of the GT series, but your summation is the worst kind of drivel.

Doom -> Doom 3. Hell, I still run around shooting stuff, getting ammo, blah, blah, blah.
Madden -> Madden 2006. Call plays, throw the ball, run the ball, kick field goals, blah, blah, blah.

It's very easy to be dismissive and critique ANY game using one's targeted criteria, but IMO, it's a clear sign of defensive fanboy angst.

I wasn't trolling, feel free to prove me wrong about the GT series. I will give them the credit about FF support and the improvement in physics, but other than that, not so much has changed. Didn't doom 3 got bashed to no end because the gameplay was basically the same as doom 1? Madden I have no clue about since I don't know anything about American football, so can't really help you there.

 

[scissorfight]

I'll buy a 360 at launch, but PS2 will likely get the most play with Soul Claibur 3. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want the game to be released for Xbox360...I don't consider myself a graphics whore, but there is something disappointing about playing SC3 in a lower resolution than I played SC2 at. *sigh*

Is there any news on a 360 SC3 "upgrade"? Some posters here swear it will happen, others swear it won't. I guess we won't know for a while.

 

[olimario]

There is nothing in the XBOX360 launch window I want to play. I wanted to play Kameo once upon a time, but I've hated every new direction the game has taken. I know it sounds like a nintendolover thing to say, but the game honestly looked the best when it was still on the GameCube.

To be fair, the only consoles titles I want before this generation is over are
-Zelda
-Killer 7
-Katamari 2
-Shadow of the Collosus

 

[Pedigree Chum]

There is nothing in the XBOX360 launch window I want to play. I wanted to play Kameo once upon a time, but I've hated every new direction the game has taken. I know it sounds like a nintendolover thing to say, but the game honestly looked the best when it was still on the GameCube.

To be fair, the only consoles titles I want before this generation is over are
-Zelda
-Killer 7
-Katamari 2
-Shadow of the Collosus

Your post lacks Okami and Black.

 

[Razoric]

My purchases:
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Conker
Metal Gear Solid: Subsistence

 

[Amir0x]

I'm just saying you seem to be going out of your way to convince yourself to not buy X360. With your repeated posts over and over and over and over again in this thread about how hot current gen system game release are. I have a different point of view and am not excited at all for most current gen games coming out in the future.

I'm not going out of my way to convince myself anything, that has been done weeks ago. People are arguing and STILL trying to focus on XBX360, this has to do with all next-gen system launches. At the moment, they're simply more of the same (at launch, like most launches) except you have to pay 299 bucks to get that extra visual boost. And I know you have a different point of view, which is fine. I simply won't be missing out on the exceptional titles being released at the end of this generation, and the abundance of asserted/likely quality is so outstanding that there's no reason for me personally to jump yet.

You make it seem like it is a sin to be excited about a console bringing us new franchises instead of current gen which is bringing us mostly retreads. That is all.

...

Y...You do realize almost every single Xbox360 launch title is a "retread", correct? I'm just making sure.

Kameo, Saint's Row and Dead Rising are the only non-retread we've even been discussing in this thread.

PGR3 = Retread
PDZ = Retread
Obli = Retread
CD2 = Retread
TestDrive = Retread
All EA titles except Godfather = Retread and/or slightly modified formulas releasing on all current gen systems as well
Burnout = Retread and/or slightly modified formula releasing on all current gen systems as well
Need for Speed = Retread and/or slightly modified formula releasing on all current gen systems as well
GR3 = Retread

Your argument here really fell apart. This should not be the avenue you went down. Alternatively, you have games like Odama, Okami, Chibi Robo, Radiata Stories, to name just a few which are as far from retreads as humanely possible.

That said, it's not a sin to be excited about the next-gen systems. I just am not yet. And 'retreads' has little to do with it, because I can play retreads on current-gen systems as well as you so dutifully pointed out.

 

[Razoric]

amir I'll give you 90% of the 360 lineup is retread but I'll have to take issue with PDZ. It's been so long since the first one came out I highly doubt this will be anything like it another than neat features and characters.

 

[Geek]

But as it is, there's no "desire" to make the hop to next-gen yet across the board. Maybe TGS will change this feeling.

This is my feeling right now. My current gen fall outlook is:

Shadow of the Colossus
We love Katamari
Genji: Dawn of the Samurai
The Warriors
Tomb Raider: Legend
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
Bully
Capcom Classics Collection
Okami
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Odama

When I factor in DS, GBA and PSP software, it looks scary.

I didn't buy an Xbox on day one, due to lack of interesting software. I didn't pick one up until JSRF was released a few months later, and I'm guessing this timeframe will be similar to my Xbox 360 purchase. There's very little compelling content for me at this point (Gears of War graphics and Ninety Nine Nights potential are about it) but, honestly, one of the biggest obstacles is growing annoyance with CONSOLE LAUNCH FRENZY!!! I don't want to be fucked over by a "bundle", nor do I want to contend with the masses at some non-gaming shop. I also realize that I often justify a console purchase with mediocre launch titles and would prefer to only buy the great stuff.

The Xbox hasn't really been a great purchase for me, because the software I prefer just isn't there. This has made me much more cautious about another MS console buy in.

 

[olimario]

My post forgot Okami. Thank you

Next gen just isn't exciting yet. The launch titles are nothing new, the graphics aren't much improved, and there are no new features that make me jump at the chance to shell out 300+ bucks.

 

[sonycowboy]

There is nothing in the XBOX360 launch window I want to play. I wanted to play Kameo once upon a time, but I've hated every new direction the game has taken. I know it sounds like a nintendolover thing to say, but the game honestly looked the best when it was still on the GameCube.

To be fair, the only consoles titles I want before this generation is over are
-Zelda
-Killer 7
-Katamari 2
-Shadow of the Collosus

I gotta go with MGS3: Subsistence, SOCOM 3, Dragon Warrior VIII, Kingdom Hearts, Jak X Racing (it actually plays very well, IMO), Shadow of the Collossus, X-Men Legends 2

Might get Burnout: Revenge, Genji, Castlevania, & Soul Calibur 3.

My wallet will be hurting from Sept on and my wife is absolutely going to kill me (like every other year. You think she'd learn by now )

 

[Amir0x]

amir I'll give you 90% of the 360 lineup is retread but I'll have to take issue with PDZ. It's been so long since the first one came out I highly doubt this will be anything like it another than neat features and characters.

It's a retread franchise based on firmly established genre rules and many features from the original so far as we've seen it. Adding "rolling" and a x-ray gun doesn't really change it. Simplification aside, I know it'll have plenty of new features and a fully-featured online mode, and will be a great game likely. It's one of the ones I'm most anticipating. People are saying retread like it's an insult, which is not what I personally was implying. I'm just saying if you're going to call it a retread, just admit it across the board

 

[Mrbob]

You forgot The Outfit and Condemned. Five new series launch titles sounds good to me. As far as I'm concerned, PD0 is is a new title too.

Besides, I was commenting on your list. You said you were skipping X360 but most of the titles you listed were sequels. And I'm buying RATATTATATATATATAT Stories.

 

[Razoric]

You forgot The Outfit and Condemned. Five new series launch titles sounds good to me. As far as I'm concerned, PD0 is is a new title too.

Besides, I was commenting on your list. You said you were skipping X360 but most of the titles you listed were sequels. And I'm buying RATATTATATATATATAT Stories.

One title he listed isn't even a sequel but the same game with new camera and online play. But i wont give him much crap for that seeing as how that's one of my most anticipated games this fall. :lol

 

[Pedigree Chum]

amir I'll give you 90% of the 360 lineup is retread but I'll have to take issue with PDZ. It's been so long since the first one came out I highly doubt this will be anything like it another than neat features and characters.

Agreed, I look at PD0 as a new. Like Metroid Prime...it's been so long that it almost seems like a new franchise. I hope they delever with it.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

My post forgot Okami. Thank you

Next gen just isn't exciting yet. The launch titles are nothing new, the graphics aren't much improved, and there are no new features that make me jump at the chance to shell out 300+ bucks.

The thing is that a lot of the cool stuff I wanted for next-gen happened or is happening this gen. Games like Burnout, Mercenaries and Black was my expectations for next-gen...yet I've got them this gen on the PS2. It's going to to take A LOT for me to be really impressed by next-gen titles.

 

[Amir0x]

You forgot The Outfit and Condemned. Five new series launch titles sounds good to me. As far as I'm concerned, PD0 is is a new title too.

PS2 had at least four or five new series, and look how that launch turned out. Horribly, to say the least ;P

Besides, I was commenting on your list. You said you were skipping X360 but most of the titles you listed were sequels. And I'm buying RATATTATATATATATAT Stories.

Yes, I'm excited about sequels because many are from franchises I adore.

But there are some exciting originals too. (Btw, Forgot Guitar Heroes and Black)

Odama
Okami
Black
Chibi Robo
Genji
Shadow of the Colossus
Guitar Heroes
Radiata Stories

That's already 8, and there's more to come without doubt - and this is without counting DS and PSP. And games like "We Love Katamari" are still super original and filled with awesome, so there's a level above ;P

The point is, the current-gen is obviously delivering many experiences we've played before in some form. But that's the point, it's current-gen and I don't have to buy new hardware to enjoy many of these undoubtedly awesome titles.

 

[Mrbob]

The Outfit is being developed by Relic and Condemned by Monolith so I have little worries about the quality.

Guitar Heroes does look fun.

One thing I do want to ask again is about next gen not bringing much new to the table. One big boost that I'm truly looking forward to in next gen is the emergence of Co-Op play over Xbox Live. It sounds like MS is making a big push to have many games available to play co-op online. This is an experience you rarely see in current gen.

 

[Amir0x]

The Outfit is being developed by Relic and Condemned by Monolith so I have little worries about the quality.

Well, let's hope they are good. Neither inspires anything special from the images and articles

Guitar Heroes does look fun.

One thing I do want to ask again is about next gen not bringing much new to the table. One big boost that I'm truly looking forward to in next gen is the emergence of Co-Op play over Xbox Live. It sounds like MS is making a big push to have many games available to play co-op online. This is an experience you rarely see in current gen.

Whether RARE or not, there's still a bunch of games that do it. It's a nice, uh, feature though.

 

[Mrbob]

I can only think of four right now off the top of my head:

Xmen Legends 2
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (Limited Co-op online)
Doom III
Phantasy Star games (Although I'd consider this not true co-op because it is a mix of playing together and also stabbing each other in the back! :lol)

 

[Amir0x]

I can only think of four right now off the top of my head:

Xmen Legends 2
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory (Limited Co-op online)
Doom III
Phantasy Star games (Although I'd consider this not true co-op because it is a mix of playing together and also stabbing each other in the back! :lol)

it's definitely not something featured in most games, of course

however, like I implied if a few extra games having co-op online is your incentive then once more be my guest - I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just expressing my personal reasons. We keep going in these circles as if you just can't believe someone is passing on the opportunity to play these systems at launch.

 

[fortified_concept]

All your future game (current gen) lists lack great JRPGs like Grandia 3, DWVIII , Tales of Legendia and FFXII. I'm so dissapointed in you guys.

 

[Amir0x]

All your future game (current gen) lists lack great JRPGs like Grandia 3, DWVIII , Tales of Legendia and FFXII. I'm so dissapointed in you guys.

I don't like the Tales series or the Dragon Quest series (maybe VIII is good?), and Grandia III and FFXII won't make it out here until 2006

 

[Flo_Evans]

still not sold on a 360 at launch. There are going to be alot of PSP games I want (at least I hope there is going to be >_<) and still alot of life left in my current consoles.

Fire Emblem
Zelda : TP
Okami
We <3 katamari
Wanda
SCIII
FFXII
MGS3:S
Burnout Legends

personaly I play most western games on my PC, so I didn't get an xbox this gen... it had a few exclusives that I wanted to get (steel battalion, ninja gaiden) but it just didn't have a game that I personaly wanted to run out and buy it for.

Honestly though the PS3 may not have a run out and buy me now game at launch either - I didn't get a PS2 untill GT3 came out (my roommates had one at launch so I was covered^^) Wipeout pure was enough for me to grab a PSP day 1, SC for dreamcast had me chomping at the bit - next gen stuff, not there yet. As we get closer to the system launches I am sure some games will be shown that make me bust out the plastic, but for now I'm more anticipating current gen titles this fall.

 

[Ponn]

I see some misunderstanding in this thread. Most of those that are not getting a Xbox 360 at launch because of the influx of games for PS2 and gamecube over the holidays didn't neccessarialy say they were never getting a 360. Just not at launch because of the mentioned influx of games. I'm sure 360 will have alot too offer after launch, but the comparison between the 360 launch titles, and the ones coming out for this gen systems at holidays to alot of people are enough to warrant holding off on a huge 360 purchase and finishing off this gen. On top of that by the time I finish all these games I have gotten over the holidays there will be more growth and games on the 360 and a possible price drop around the time PS3 launches. This also allows a better picture of maybe I would want to get a 360 instead of a PS3 at that time, or maybe I will know alot more about the launch of PS3 and decide to just stick with that for the time being. Either way I get too play some overall kick ass games over the holidays. To those that still can't understand why anyone would wait on the 360 and pick up all the games for the current gens let me also ask this question. If I don't care about FPS, sports or racing games then tell me what games I should be getting the 360 for at launch then?

 

[Vince]

To answer the intial post:

For us (people on this board), Yes it will. For everyone else (like normal people), Oh no. PS2 is likely somewhere in the region of maximum software sales per annum (perhaps approaching this year), but there will be strong coat-tails with the average consumer, much as there was with the PlayStation.

IMHO PS2 hasn't reached the half-way point of it's software sales, the platform expansion [hardware sales] are going to plateu and decline per annum (90M thus far in toto), but this is when software sales begin to peak. If I may conjecture, Sony's truely profitable stages of the PlayStation2 platform likely started last year and will peak in 2006.

 

[sonycowboy]

To answer the intial post:

For us (people on this board), Yes it will. For everyone else (like normal people), Oh no. PS2 is likely somewhere in the region of maximum software sales per annum (perhaps approaching this year), but there will be strong coat-tails with the average consumer, much as there was with the PlayStation.

IMHO PS2 hasn't reached the half-way point of it's software sales, the platform expansion [hardware sales] are going to plateu and decline per annum (90M thus far in toto), but this is when software sales begin to peak. If I may conjecture, Sony's truely profitable stages of the PlayStation2 platform likely started last year and will peak in 2006.

Agreed.

I rarely consider this population to equal the average consumer. But, then again, the hardcore population does make up a disproportionate percentage of software sales relative to their size, so the hardcore most definitely do affect software sales. Not overwhelmingly, but signficantly.

As far as software goes, my guess would be that it peaked last year, but that it will hold quite strong for the next 2 years and take a hit after that, but still be a significant segment of the market until 2009 or so.

I also agree regarding profitability (for both Sony & publishers). The biggest cost components are past and software should do very well equaling significant profitability on the PS2 platform.

And Sony's going to need every penny of it.

 

[djtiesto]

Not enough Radiata Stories love in this thread... aside from PSU (is that even coming out this year?) and DQ8, this is by far my most wanted release of the year.