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Will your Xbox360 purchases kill your current generation Fall gaming purchases..
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
sonycowboy said:
I'm not sure I follow your concern. From MS's perspective, if the 360 ramps fast and 'heavy' users transfer over, that will translate to a fast adoption of the 360 and corrosponding software support. Yes, the current platform will suffer but it looks from the release schedules that developers (and certainly Microsoft) are already making the shift.
I guess my question is - do you see this as a zero sum game (sales from one platform just trasferring over to the next)? Certainly what MS wants is the fastest possible transition from the XBox to the X360. I'm actually asking - not just being dense.
sonycowboy
Member
The End said:
Agreed. (although FF doesn't really measure up to the other 2, and neither does Zelda - in sales terms). Although, Zelda will be interesting. Wind Waker sold ~830k right off the bat in March of '03. With, perhaps, a more acceptable visual style, as well as a holiday release, it will be interesting to see what kind of sales it can have.
I certainly don't think that this year compares to 2004 (or 2001 or 1998,etc), but it does have alot of quality titles. Certainly big on sequels, but that was true last year as well.
sonycowboy said:
ugh
I'll probably end up getting a lot of the games on that list but I learned from the past two autumns that if you don't think you're gonna have time to play it right when you buy it, just wait for a price drop. I still haven't bought Burnout 3, Sly 2, etc.
I wish EA would have criterion make a new Road Rash game. :-\
Games I will buy this fall:
Zelda
Fire Emblem
Castlevania DS
Dragon Quest VIII
Shadow of the Colossus
Everyone Loves Katamari
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (maybe)
Okami
Burnout Revenge
Gunstar Super Heroes (?)
Combined with a bit of a backlog I still have, I'm really not ready for next-gen. There are a few titles that pique my interest, namely Kameo and Oblivion, but at the moment I want to mostly bring closure to this gen before diving into next gen. That's strictly a personal thing for me. I still have a few PS1 games I want to play through ( :lol ) so I want to catch up in a major way before next gen gets well underway.
Zelda
Fire Emblem
Castlevania DS
Dragon Quest VIII
Shadow of the Colossus
Everyone Loves Katamari
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness (maybe)
Okami
Burnout Revenge
Gunstar Super Heroes (?)
Combined with a bit of a backlog I still have, I'm really not ready for next-gen. There are a few titles that pique my interest, namely Kameo and Oblivion, but at the moment I want to mostly bring closure to this gen before diving into next gen. That's strictly a personal thing for me. I still have a few PS1 games I want to play through ( :lol ) so I want to catch up in a major way before next gen gets well underway.
sonycowboy
Member
GhaleonEB said:I'm not sure I follow your concern. From MS's perspective, if the 360 ramps fast and 'heavy' users transfer over, that will translate to a fast adoption of the 360 and corrosponding software support. Yes, the current platform will suffer but it looks from the release schedules that developers (and certainly Microsoft) are already making the shift.
I guess my question is - do you see this as a zero sum game (sales from one platform just trasferring over to the next)? Certainly what MS wants is the fastest possible transition from the XBox to the X360. I'm actually asking - not just being dense.
Yes. It would be very good for Microsoft as they clearly want to have the fastest start possible for the 360. However, there will only be ~2M (more, less, who knows?) 360 owners this year. That inherently limits the possible sales. That's why I wondered what it would do to the overall current generation market. I just don't know. Worst case it could cause a bit of a micro collapse in the current generation market.
Secondly, current generation software development is going to be VERY profitable from a publisher standpoint here on out. I don't think publishers would be all together happy for the market to just drop out.
If it were a zero sum change, then that would mean GREAT Xbox software sales this holiday (based on the differential in user bases 16-17M vs 2M?) so I think everybody would be happy. But if the 360 depresses the current generation market, then publishers would be quite unhappy (but redouble their efforts on the 360 and PS3, which would clearly benefit Microsoft tremendously)
Ponn01 said:
its not a matter of fresh and new but more why spend money on games you played last year on the old systems when the best system at teh time will be availible and give the best experience? I for one will be getting saints row, pgr3 and tomb raider. ofcourse similar games are availible for the last gen, even the prequels but i'd rather play those games truly taken to the next level.
Barnimal said:
Well... of the 3 games you listed(and we know so little about all 3), I think it's safe to say that the only thing taken to the next level in TR is an additional coat of shiny textures. But... hey more graphic whorism power to you... especially if you're gonna be paying $10 more for that version(not that I think titles will go back up to $59.99 as we keep hearing... but hey....)
Redbeard said:
You should clarify this, because "better graphics" does not equal "bigger and better". I can guarantee you that plenty of these current gen games will be better than anything available on Xbox360 at launch simply because of familiarity with the platform and longer development times. The same applies for PS3 and its launch titles. The Revolution largely depends on how unique its controller is, but its likely the same exact thing will apply to it.
Bauer Action Hour
Member
I'm not going to purchase a 360 right away because of the current gen line up that's on the horizon.
The only time I'll get antsy to get one is when baseball season '06 is about to start and there's a great MLB game on the way. Hopefully MLB 2k6 is a great game, but that's wishful thinking after the '05 fiasco. Maybe MS can get EA to lend them MVP as a 1st party title...
The only time I'll get antsy to get one is when baseball season '06 is about to start and there's a great MLB game on the way. Hopefully MLB 2k6 is a great game, but that's wishful thinking after the '05 fiasco. Maybe MS can get EA to lend them MVP as a 1st party title...
sonycowboy
Member
Mooreberg said:
I am
But more from a console market transitional perspective as opposed to calling people damn dirty apes for not buying the clearly superior games (multiplatform or not). I think this 2nd half of the year should be imminently interesting when the NPD comes out, both from a forum reaction, as well as industry trending. (especially November & December)
sonycowboy said:I am
But more from a console market transitional perspective as opposed to calling people damn dirty apes for not buying the clearly superior games (multiplatform or not). I think this 2nd half of the year should be imminently interesting when the NPD comes out, both from a forum reaction, as well as industry trending. (especially November & December)
Yeah that was the wrong question for this forum. :lol
I'll rephrase it to "do you really care which version of a game somebody else is playing?"
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
Nah, I was only planning on getting Zelda: Twilight Princess and Madden 06 anyway.
Amir0x said:
Not just better visually, but in terms of scope, options, and online integration.
A game like Saint's Row, for example, will offer online co-op/adversarial modes, more customization, more advanced physics, and of course better graphics over GTA (and it's clones).
PDZ will offer more players online and more gamemodes (in both single and multiplayer) than any console shooter available on current consoles. Hopefully it will also look the part when it comes out.
Oblivion, in addition to having all the freedoms of Morrowind will now have 'radiant AI', better stealth mechanics, much better visuals, a bigger world, mounts, etc....
Redbeard said:
First, you're speculating a lot. We don't know how much more improved the "scope" will be in any of these games. For instance, will Saint's Row be as large as three huge cities and massive expanses of land between it? It could, of course, but you're equating this advance in technology with superior quality in titles. At first, which is the launch titles we're discussing, it'll just be the same with better visuals (and this is not including the games from the current generation which will actually just be bastions for innovation, like Okami or perhaps Zelda:Twilight Princess). Personally, and this is myself, I thought Saint's Row looked awful as a concept. But it could be awesome. But what you're not explaining to me is how this next-gen advance is going to create a fundamental increase in quality over previous gen titles.
You seemingly always have to rely on "better graphics" at the end, because how you determined the game would have things like "more customization" is likely weak at best, unless you've had extensive hands on time with the final product and haven't just been reading marketing buzz.
As for PDZ, I'm a bit disingenuous about it because you had to add the qualifier "on consoles", but obviously I've been playin' things like RTCW with 64 players for far longer
As for "more gamemodes", I'm just going to assume you're making stuff up because I don't know how you determined it has more than any other shooter available on current consoles or what reason, if any, that has to do with next-gen technology.Oblivion I'm not even going to discuss, because again your reasons were fluff. "Much bigger world." Mounts as an improvement only next-gen consoles can provide? Better stealth mechanics... what does that even mean?
sonycowboy said:
Makes sense. I see two factors that could hurt current XBox sales. One, people are planning to buy (or try and can't) a 360 and hold off on current gen purchases until they do. Two, without Microsoft pushing the platform overall sales suffer due to the loss in mindshare, retail space, 1st party games and (maybe) 3rd party games.
The big X-factor (pun NOT intended) is just how many systems MS can get out the door. By the time the PS3 launches, they need to look back on the early launch and say, "it was worth it." Getting 2m systems out the door for the holidays probably won't do it.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
Not really. Doubt I'll get X360 at launch, tons of great stuff on PS2 still.
Amir0x said:First, you're speculating a lot. We don't know how much more improved the "scope" will be in any of these games. For instance, will Saint's Row be as large as three huge cities and massive expanses of land between it? It could, of course, but you're equating this advance in technology with superior quality in titles. At first, which is the launch titles we're discussing, it'll just be the same with better visuals.
As for PDZ, I'm a bit disingenuous about it because you had to add the qualifier "on consoles", but obviously I've been playin' things like RTCW with 64 players for far longer
Oblivion I'm not even going to discuss, because again your reasons were fluff. "Much bigger world." Mounts as an improvement only next-gen consoles can provide? Better stealth mechanics... what does that even mean?
First of all, it doesn't matter if only next-gen consoles can provide all this stuff, because at the moment current consoles are not doing it. Whether or not it's possible to do this generation isn't relevant to me if it's not being done.
Oblivion takes Morrowind and makes it bigger and better. Nothing more to it. If you want to know about it's improved stealth mechanics (or combat) go read up on it. The fact is they could not run their radiant AI system on current machines (according to a Beth Q&A in OXM) along with everything else.
As for PDZ, we already know it will offer online co-op and counter-op in the campaign mode. I can go from playing that to a 64-player deathmatch or CTF game to a CS-like Dark Ops mode, and then go watch some 'Kill TV' all in one game. What other shooters offer all of that right now?
And if SR can at least clean up what Rockstar has been unable to after three games and add online playability to boot then it's already a better game, even if it doesn't offer three cities.
Show me where I can get all this on one current console and you'll save me a lot of money this fall.
Not really too interested in many current gen games anymore. But instead of giving a vague answer I'll answer for each title on your list as I don't think that list is too hot. I'm not abandoning current gen completely but I'm majorly cutting down on my current gen purchases.
Shadow of the Colossus - Could be cool, but I thought ICO was slightly overrated. I may get this
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Didn't like Kingdom Hearts. Looks nice.
Soul Calibur 3 -No online, no thanks. Rumors still swirl this is hitting next gen platforms. I'll wait for the online enabled X360 version.
Burnout: Revenge - Don't really care for the Burnout series, I'll pass
Socom 3 - Why play Socom 3 when I can play Battlefield 2 on my PC?
We love Katamari - Could be cool. I never did pick up Katamari but I still want too. I may get this if it is 20 bucks
Genji: Dawn of the Samurai - A non Onimusha Onimusha rip off title. I'll pass
Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood - Another one already? No thanks
The Warriors - Not too big fan of the movie. No thanks.
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness - 3D castlevania suck.
Ratchet: Deadlock - I'll love Ratchet, but I can't take another version this soon.
Jak X: Combat Racing - Don't care about the Jak series
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves - Don't care too much about the Sly series
Raimbow Six: Lockdown - If I get a Rainbow Six game it'll be for the PC
Dragon Quest VIII - Mine
City of the Dead - No interest. I'll wait for Capcoms X360 zombie game
Tomb Raider: Legend - I'll get the X360 version if any.
Without Warning - Don't even know what this is.
King Kong-It's UBI. There will be next gen versions
Star Wars: Battlefront 2 - Didn't care for Battlefront
Matrix: Path of Neo - May get this if good
Ghost Recon 3 - Might get the X360 version
Prince of Persia 3 - Pass
True Crime 2 - Hahaha, True Crime is a shit series. It still sells well though.
Need For Speed: Most Wanted - Not too interested in racers
The Suffering 2 - Suffering was ok. May get this as a budget title
Pac-Man World 3 - No.
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence - Mine.
Resident Evil 4 -Played it on GC. Will get the PS2 version for cheap
Devil Kings - Maybe, unsure on this one.
James Bond 007: From Russia with love - No. EA has killed the Bond series for me.
X-Men Legends 2 - Might get this for online play over Xbox Live. Didn't buy the first one.
Radiata Stories - Ratatttatatatatat Stories I shall buy. Tri Ace rocks.
Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks - No thanks
The Godfather - I'd rather play Mafia. I have.
Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows - New Gauntlet doesn't do much for me
Mavel Nemisis - Could be decent, but I'll wait on a next gen version
Front Mission 5 - No thanks. Can't get into the Front Mission games
Final Fight: Streetwise - Not a huge interest in the Final Fight franchise anymore
Like I said, I won't totally abandon currrent gen, but it won't be my focus either. Most of that list is sequelitis, and for most series I don't even play them after the first game or two. I'm ready to try out new franchises like Kameo (*insert joke here about it being 'new'*), The Outfit, Condemned. Plus if I'm going to buy a fighter it has to be online. Why I'll buy DoA4. I also want PD Zero, as I read the EGM article finally and everything RARE is including in the game sounds awesome.
I'm not abandoning current gen completely but I'm majorly cutting down on my current gen purchases.Shadow of the Colossus - Could be cool, but I thought ICO was slightly overrated. I may get this
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Didn't like Kingdom Hearts. Looks nice.
Soul Calibur 3 -No online, no thanks. Rumors still swirl this is hitting next gen platforms. I'll wait for the online enabled X360 version.
Burnout: Revenge - Don't really care for the Burnout series, I'll pass
Socom 3 - Why play Socom 3 when I can play Battlefield 2 on my PC?
We love Katamari - Could be cool. I never did pick up Katamari but I still want too. I may get this if it is 20 bucks
Genji: Dawn of the Samurai - A non Onimusha Onimusha rip off title. I'll pass
Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood - Another one already? No thanks
The Warriors - Not too big fan of the movie. No thanks.
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness - 3D castlevania suck.
Ratchet: Deadlock - I'll love Ratchet, but I can't take another version this soon.
Jak X: Combat Racing - Don't care about the Jak series
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves - Don't care too much about the Sly series
Raimbow Six: Lockdown - If I get a Rainbow Six game it'll be for the PC
Dragon Quest VIII - Mine
City of the Dead - No interest. I'll wait for Capcoms X360 zombie game
Tomb Raider: Legend - I'll get the X360 version if any.
Without Warning - Don't even know what this is.
King Kong-It's UBI. There will be next gen versions
Star Wars: Battlefront 2 - Didn't care for Battlefront
Matrix: Path of Neo - May get this if good
Ghost Recon 3 - Might get the X360 version
Prince of Persia 3 - Pass
True Crime 2 - Hahaha, True Crime is a shit series. It still sells well though.
Need For Speed: Most Wanted - Not too interested in racers
The Suffering 2 - Suffering was ok. May get this as a budget title
Pac-Man World 3 - No.
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence - Mine.
Resident Evil 4 -Played it on GC. Will get the PS2 version for cheap
Devil Kings - Maybe, unsure on this one.
James Bond 007: From Russia with love - No. EA has killed the Bond series for me.
X-Men Legends 2 - Might get this for online play over Xbox Live. Didn't buy the first one.
Radiata Stories - Ratatttatatatatat Stories I shall buy. Tri Ace rocks.
Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks - No thanks
The Godfather - I'd rather play Mafia. I have.
Gauntlet: Seven Sorrows - New Gauntlet doesn't do much for me
Mavel Nemisis - Could be decent, but I'll wait on a next gen version
Front Mission 5 - No thanks. Can't get into the Front Mission games
Final Fight: Streetwise - Not a huge interest in the Final Fight franchise anymore
Like I said, I won't totally abandon currrent gen, but it won't be my focus either. Most of that list is sequelitis, and for most series I don't even play them after the first game or two. I'm ready to try out new franchises like Kameo (*insert joke here about it being 'new'*), The Outfit, Condemned. Plus if I'm going to buy a fighter it has to be online. Why I'll buy DoA4. I also want PD Zero, as I read the EGM article finally and everything RARE is including in the game sounds awesome.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
No, the games I'm getting for 360 won't affect me at all
Redbeard said:
Wait, what, mounts aren't being offered on current gen consoles? Good stealth mechanics aren't? Large scope isn't? Online co-op isn't? Are you saying the stealth mechanics in Oblivion are going to be better than Splinter Cell? Or are they just going to be an interesting feature? Of course, you're also still speculating about the quality. What are you talking about?
Redbeard said:
You're backing away from the answer. I didn't ask for you to direct me to where I can read it, I asked you specifically what is improved in its stealth mechanics that I can't experience in 99 billion other stealth games today, or how the next-gen system launch titles opens the door to such new experiences. Later on titles, sure. Launch titles? You're stretching it and you know it. As for "Radiant AI", I'm going to assume it's PR bull until it's demonstratably superior to anything on current gen systems. That's quite a bit more difficult than speaking out of someone's ass, you realize.
Redbeard said:
What other shooters offer deathmatch, CTF, or a CS-like Dark Ops mode? Well, RTCW has CTF, Deathmatch, 64 players, a pretty good spectator mode and a Allies vs. Axis setup ala Enemy Territory, and a wealth of playermade maps and content and addons just to stick to that example. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure PDZ will offer superior LIVE integration, it's only to be expected. But to say that = better than current gen experiences is pretty funny, if not pie-in-the-sky hyperbole.
Redbeard said:
I'm sure you'll think it's better than San Andreas no matter what Saint's Row offers, but to be clear you're in the very distinct minority when talkin' about the quality of the game so let's try to be objective. You said the game Saint's Row will offer "larger scope", but you quickly backed down. Not surprising, of course. How will it add more customization?
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
This generation is over for me. Bring on the 360!
Amir0x said:
Um, I thought I was being pretty clear.
I want an RPG with a massive, gorgeous world that lets me go wherever I want, do anything I want, whenever I want. An RPG that lets me play through the game as a thief if I want and slink around in the shadows, or a magician, a knight, an assassin, or whatever class I can think up. An RPG with NPCs that have real AI, close up their shops and go to bed at night, get hungry and go eat, get angry, steal, etc... An RPG that has physics on all objects and physics-based combat, one with huge lush forests to get lost in and 200+ dungeons to plunder.
Can I get this game on a current console?
Amir0x said:
I'm not comparing any of these games to PC games.
Amir0x said:
Read what I wrote. I never said it would offer "larger scope". Co-op and adversarial online gameplay, more customization (e.g. create your character from scratch), better physics, better graphics (with no loading anywhere).
Like I said with Oblivion, show me where I can get a GTA-style game that offers even just online gameplay on a current console.
Redbeard said:
When you put so many variables into it, the same can be said about a billion games. "Find me a game on System Y that offers a magical horse, physics on all objects, a lush jungle, three cars on the corner of wilson street, a night and day cycle and whores to fuck, shops that close at night, some grass and shit... perhaps a race of mystical lizards and, on top of that, 100+ dungeons."
Many games fit the description you stated here to varying degrees. It just seems to me like you're justifying these games for you, which is fine. You're not really establishing how it's fundamentally better than current gen games. If the best you can come up with is "Physics on everything, lots of dungeons and better visuals", then I guess it's not difficult to establish the standard. Oblivion will be a fine game, I'm sure.
Redbeard said:
Well, that's pretty weak since RTCW has been out for years now and can be played on reasonably weak PCs. It's more to establish that it isn't a reason to hop onto next-gen systems.
Redbeard said:
You're defining customization by creating characters by scratch? Customization involves a shit ton of things. Essentially, customizing your experience. I hate to keep going back to this GTA-clone standard, but does Saints Row offer like 150+ vehicles including boats, planes, bikes and remote control controlled race cars, 10 radio stations, mod shops, shooting galleries, dozens upon dozens of different races, excersizing, RPG-esque character advancement, territory battling, 100+ missions, endless side missions, etc...etc...
I'm sure Saint's Row will include some of these, but this should illustrate a few things. For one, this should begin to show you how pointless adding in all these variables are (ala Oblivion). And for another, customization involves far more than what you stated, which expresses your limited imagination.
Not going to argue with you about loading, because you should know what the Xbox version of San Andreas does by this point ;P
This fall (or from today forward) I will still be getting:
Zelda
Conker
Shadow of Colossus
NCAA football - if the WRs can catch
Madden - of course
And then when it hits I'll be picking up the Xbox360 and several games and accessories.
I don't think the Xbox360 will kill my purchases but definetly make me more selective. I love when new generations of gaming start cause I always get time to finish off some of my backlog of games.
Zelda
Conker
Shadow of Colossus
NCAA football - if the WRs can catch
Madden - of course
And then when it hits I'll be picking up the Xbox360 and several games and accessories.
I don't think the Xbox360 will kill my purchases but definetly make me more selective. I love when new generations of gaming start cause I always get time to finish off some of my backlog of games.
Amir0x said:
What the?
I originally said that next-gen games don't have to be fresh and new to justify buying a new console, just bigger and better. Oblivion should be a bigger and better Morrowind for a number of reasons I've already stated. It won't be on a current console. That's it. Same can be said for the other games I mentioned.
Obviously we haven't played them yet, so it's possible they're all fucked up in some critical way, but as it stands they look to improve upon whatever formulas they're based on in one or many ways, and they won't be avaliable on a current console. That's all I'm saying.
Redbeard said:
Exactly, it's great we went in this circle. "Bigger and better". In the end, nothing you said describes something which creates a fundamentally superior experience. Particularly dubious was your Saint's Row and Perfect Dark Zero example. Oblivion I'm sure will improve on Morrowind (or Fable or the other games like it), and will not be on other consoles. PC, of course, but that's another story
Amir0x said:Exactly, it's great we went in this circle. "Bigger and better". In the end, nothing you said describes something which creates a fundamentally superior experience. Particularly dubious was your Saint's Row and Perfect Dark Zero example. Oblivion I'm sure will improve on Morrowind (or Fable or the other games like it), and will not be on other consoles. PC, of course, but that's another story
Nothing I brought up could create a better experience over what's available now on current consoles? Are you kidding?
Oblivion's AI alone should make for a much better experience than MW (static, lifeless NPCs was probably the most disappointing thing about it), online gameplay alone should improve the experience and playability in Saint's Row over similar games, and the wealth of players and options in PDZ should make it superior to shooters currently available.
You really don't think any of these things would make for a better experiences over similar games available now?
