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[Amir0x]

Nothing I brought up could create a better experience over what's available now on current consoles? Are you kidding?

Oblivion's AI alone should make for a much better experience than MW (static, lifeless NPCs was probably the most disappointing thing about it)

Good AI can be in a variety of titles including current gen games. Until we see in action that it actually creates the type of AI that is unable to be achieved in current gen titles, it is a shakey claim at best. AI is one of the primary things I hope IS improved by next-gen, so if it is true that it is improved (and not just improved over Morrowind, I mean improved over current gen titles in general), it will be an awesome thing.

online gameplay alone should improve the experience and playability in Saint's Row over similar games, and the wealth of players and options in PDZ should make it superior to shooters currently available.

If I added online play to, say, SEGA's Virtual Quest, would the game be better for it? No, because it still sucks. It's a nice option, but there are definitely GTA-type games (or games with GTA-like atmosphere) that have online options. There's one that is described as a SOCOM merged with GTA coming out for current gen consoles, for instance. But if the gameplay sucks, online won't change that. As for wealth of players, Black Hawk Down for Xbox offers 54 players or something like that. I'm not sure as to its options, but the general point is if the gameplay is shoddy adding 500 players won't improve it. Certainly it's possible to add this many players to current gen consoles if a game like Delta Force did it.

 

[VALIS]

Hot damn. Yeah, this is the prime reason I'm probably going to hold off from getting any of the new systems at launch (something I haven't done in probably 10+ years). That release list is incredible, no way I can miss at least a quarter of those.

Either you're pulling everyone's chain or I'm just not as up to date on these titles as I thought I was. Out of SC's list in the original post, how many of those games are really "hot damns?" I'm seriously askin'. Granted, everyone's tastes vary, but I just don't see any eye poppers there besides Colossus, Zelda, Katamari and Burnout 4. Quite a few games I'll buy on the cheap eventually, but very few I'm gonna be marking down the calendar for and I like every genre of games.

 

[Amir0x]

Either you're pulling everyone's chain or I'm just not as up to date on these titles as I thought I was. Out of SC's list in the original post, how many of those games are really "hot damns?" I'm seriously askin'. Granted, everyone's tastes vary, but I just don't see any eye poppers there besides Colossus, Zelda, Katamari and Burnout 4. Quite a few games I'll buy on the cheap eventually, but very few I'm gonna be marking down the calendar for and I like every genre of games.

My personal hot damns are:

Shadow of the Colossus
Kingdom Hearts 2
Soul Calibur 3
Socom 3
We love Katamari
Genji: Dawn of the Samurai
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
Dragon Quest VIII
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence
X-Men Legends 2
Radiata Stories
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Fire Emblem GC
Makai Wars
Sonic Collection 2 (GC)
Conker
A billion NDS games
A few PSP games

And that's just this summer/fall. And that might be added to if I enjoy Prince of Persia III, Tomb Raider Legend, Chibi Robo, Ratchet: Deadlock, Jak X: Combat Racing, Megaman X Collection among others.

Other games in the not-so-distant future (hopefully):

Okami
Final Fantasy XII
Grandia III
Onimusha 4
Phantasy Star Universe

 

[PhatSaqs]

Wow if you actually buy all that crap Amir :lol

I'll personally be getting at least another good 5-8 games for the rest of the year.

Pirates
Conker
Xmen 2
Socom 3
NG Black

Maybes = Warriors, Bully, KOF/Sam Sho 5

Once 360 launches this gen is a wrap.

 

[Amir0x]

Wow if you actually buy all that crap Amir :lol

I'm sorry, crap?

 

[Excelion]

amrir0x's list are just Playstation1 games with better graphics, better ai and better physics

 

[Amir0x]

amrir0x's list are just Playstation1 games with better graphics, better ai and better physics

Certainly some of them are. But the jump from PlayStation gen to Xbox/PS2/GC gen is much larger than the one to next-gen in terms of opening up possibilities, you realize.

 

[PhatSaqs]

I'm sorry, crap?

Stuff, games, shit, crap. No difference.

 

[Amir0x]

Stuff, games, shit, crap. No difference.

Just making sure. One man's crap is another man's treasure, you realize.

If I had to distill it down to absolute "if I went broke tommorrow" essentials (i.e., for me AAA titles, and not just AA or A titles)...

Shadow of the Colossus
Kingdom Hearts 2
Soul Calibur 3
Socom 3
X-Men Legends 2
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Fire Emblem GC
Makai Wars
Conker
We Love Katamari
Metal Gear Solid: Subsistence

But again, this may be taken away from/added to if any of the other titles I play are really that super good.

 

[Nick Laslett]

I'm really coming adrift from the hardcore crowd.

I have no interest in the next gen consoles at this point in time. I'm thinking I'll get a next-gen console for Christmas 2007 (maybe Easter 2008) and upgrade my 480p plasma to a nice shiny 1080p display.

The display upgrade and next gen console purchase are in extricably linked in my mind. I need some of my favourite movies to be available on Blu-Ray before I get really excited.

As a PS2 owner I have invested a huge amount in my system, with a Hard Drive, Eye Toy, Network Adaptor, Headset, i-link router, steering wheel, Singstar mics, dancemats, multitap, x-port, vga adapter, and I'm in no hurry to walk away from this investment.

The Fall '05 and Spring '06 software line-ups look very strong to me. Add the PSP games I intend to buy and I think you've got one happy gamer for awhile. (If I do buy some new hardware this fall it will be a GC to play Zelda.)

Fun and entertainment is what this is all about and I don't see a new console making a huge difference to this in the short term.

Out of interest how many of you already have 720p displays? I find it bizarre that people with 480i TVs are excited by the next gen when they haven't even sampled prog scan from the current one. A decent 720p device is a must for getting the most value out of the next gen machines.

 

[Cold-Steel]

I don't think we'll be seeing reasonably priced 720p displays until at least Summer of 06' so I'll probably hold on until then.

As for 360 purchases hurting my Fall current gen wallet? Not a chance.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (GCN), Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence (PS2) and SOCOM 3: US Navy Seals (PS2) are my most anticipated purchases of the end of the year.

I proudly own all four consoles (including the Dreamcast) and a fifth won't hurt my wallet at all.

Here's to Call of Duty 2 being the title I'm definitely watching for. Part of me wants to be excited for Perfect Dark Zero as well...but we have 'Zero' good information on it.

 

[GhaleonEB]

When you put so many variables into it, the same can be said about a billion games. "Find me a game on System Y that offers a magical horse, physics on all objects, a lush jungle, three cars on the corner of wilson street, a night and day cycle and whores to fuck, shops that close at night, some grass and shit... perhaps a race of mystical lizards and, on top of that, 100+ dungeons."

Many games fit the description you stated here to varying degrees. It just seems to me like you're justifying these games for you, which is fine. You're not really establishing how it's fundamentally better than current gen games. If the best you can come up with is "Physics on everything, lots of dungeons and better visuals", then I guess it's not difficult to establish the standard. Oblivion will be a fine game, I'm sure.



Well, that's pretty weak since RTCW has been out for years now and can be played on reasonably weak PCs. It's more to establish that it isn't a reason to hop onto next-gen systems.



You're defining customization by creating characters by scratch? Customization involves a shit ton of things. Essentially, customizing your experience. I hate to keep going back to this GTA-clone standard, but does Saints Row offer like 150+ vehicles including boats, planes, bikes and remote control controlled race cars, 10 radio stations, mod shops, shooting galleries, dozens upon dozens of different races, excersizing, RPG-esque character advancement, territory battling, 100+ missions, endless side missions, etc...etc...

I'm sure Saint's Row will include some of these, but this should illustrate a few things. For one, this should begin to show you how pointless adding in all these variables are (ala Oblivion). And for another, customization involves far more than what you stated, which expresses your limited imagination.

Not going to argue with you about loading, because you should know what the Xbox version of San Andreas does by this point ;P

Holy shit man - first post of yours I've clicked on in a few weeks (love that Ignore feature) and I'm reminded why. You avatar should just read "Sony Lobby". Wow.

 

[mrklaw]

for me, pretty much only Shadow of the Colossus and Black are interesting for me on PS2, and Black isn't out until next year.

So I'll continue my usual routine of buying consoles at launch and skimming the cream (for me) off the top for all of them.

 

[Ash Housewares]

Zelda is an obvious casualty for me, and Fire Emblem might get delayed

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

I will prolly get a 360 depending on how good oblivion is


however I personally wish saints row to bomb just for the blatant plagarism going on in that game , im suprised they didnt trying naming it Gran Teft Awto :lol

 

[Amir0x]

Holy shit man - first post of yours I've clicked on in a few weeks (love that Ignore feature) and I'm reminded why. You avatar should just read "Sony Lobby". Wow.

Oh no, you have me on Ignore!? Ghaleon NooooooOooooooooo!!11

But seriously now, what does this have to do with Sony? As far as I see it, PlayStation 3 is in the exact same situation. We're talkin' about next-gen systems killing current gen purchases, and my answer is no - the end of the current generation is offering us the best experiences, period, and there is no fundamental improvement in launch titles in next-gen systems. Not that difficult to grasp.

And naturally, you realize how hilarious it is that you of all people are trying to expose biases.

 

[Bebpo]

hmmm, I'll make sure I get the system (X360) and at least 1 game at launch. But nothing in the X360 lineup interests me besides PGR3 (I'm not a fan of most western titles and DoA does nothing for me). So I'll spend 90% of my money this fall/xmas on the awesome current generation line-up + X360 Hardware + new TV and then any cash I have left over will be used for picking up random X360 launch games. For me the X360 launch is a lot like the PS2 launch where I'm picking it up because the hardware itself seems cool, and I'll wait for the games to show up later.

Best launch ever is still the DC (you can't beat Soul Calibur + Powerstone + NFL2k + Sonic Adventure), and then the PSP one was pretty good just because it had a few killer apps like Lumines, Minna no Golf, and Ridge Racers.

 

[Redbeard]

Oh no, you have me on Ignore!? Ghaleon NooooooOooooooooo!!11

But seriously now, what does this have to do with Sony? As far as I see it, PlayStation 3 is in the exact same situation. We're talkin' about next-gen systems killing current gen purchases, and my answer is no - the end of the current generation is offering us the best experiences, period, and I refuse to admit that there will be a fundamental improvement in launch titles in next-gen systems. Not that difficult to grasp.

 

[swordsman]

The latest Zelda and then Xbox360 al the way...

 

[Amir0x]

Nothing about refusal to admit because they just don't, period, and saying "better visuals and - gasp - BETTER PHYSICS and FANCY NAME AI" does not a better game make.

 

[Redbeard]

Nothing about refusal to admit because they just don't, period, and saying "better visuals and - gasp - BETTER PHYSICS and FANCY NAME AI" does not a better game make.

It absolutely does.

 

[DarienA]

Holy shit man - first post of yours I've clicked on in a few weeks (love that Ignore feature) and I'm reminded why. You avatar should just read "Sony Lobby". Wow.

That's pretty funny coming from you. Anyway I'm actually really interested in Redbeard's defense of an unknown product(Saint's Row's) vs. Amir0x defense of a known products good and bad points(GTA).

Redbeard... better physics? I hope you don't mean more "true to liife" or "realistic" physics... because just from the movie clips you can tell you aren't getting that...

 

[Amir0x]

It absolutely does.

No, it doesn't. Although it's rather humourous that you think that. Gameplay boiled down into three essentials - Physics, Fancy, Unproven AI and BETTER VISUALS! Next-gen is here! Of especially funny note is that nothing you have said is unattainable or is necessarily superior than what has offered in this gen, only better for bullet points on the back of the box.

I can imagine it now.

Oblivion.
- FANCY AI. TOWNSFOLK WALK AROUND AND CLOSE SHOPS AT NIGHT.
- 200+ DUNGEONS, EVERY LAST ONE AS GENERIC AND UNINSPIRED AS THE LAST.
- BIG FUCKING WORLD.

(Note: I'm not implying Oblivion will be bad, but just that what you feel deems a "fundamental improvement that actually improves the quality of a game dramatically" is horrible.)

 

[Bebpo]

It absolutely does.

Yea, it makes a 6.8 game become a 7.1 game

You need a damn good game concept and execution to make a 9/10 game (despite what IGN says), just giving a game a next-gen boost! will not make it great. And the likelyhood that there will be more than one or two truly great games at any consoles launch is pretty low. Look at the rush to buy 6-10 PSP games at it's launch only to be followed with "hmm, maybe these weren't 8.5-9.5/10 games after all".

 

[fortified_concept]

I agree with Amir0x here. I won't even touch next gen consoles till I finish all the great games I'm planning to purchase. I've said it before, next gen is coming way to early. I'm not gonna skip for example DWVIII or FFXII for a bunch of shitty launch games, no matter how great they look.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Oh no, you have me on Ignore!? Ghaleon NooooooOooooooooo!!11

But seriously now, what does this have to do with Sony? As far as I see it, PlayStation 3 is in the exact same situation. We're talkin' about next-gen systems killing current gen purchases, and my answer is no - the end of the current generation is offering us the best experiences, period, and there is no fundamental improvement in launch titles in next-gen systems. Not that difficult to grasp.

And naturally, you realize how hilarious it is that you of all people are trying to expose biases.

Gotta agree to an extent. PS2/NGC(/XBox?) will be seeing their best releases this year. X60 is going to hot, but the software will be forgettable launch stuff...for the most part anyways, I hope that there's at least one "Halo" calibur title (come on PD0).

 

[Amir0x]

I agree with Amir0x here. I won't even touch next gen consoles till I finish all the great games I'm planning to purchase. I repeat that the next gen wii come way to early. I'm not gonna skip for example DWVIII or FFXII for a bunch of shitty launch games no matter how great they look.

And just for clarity because certain - ahem - people think this applies to only Xbox360. This goes for PS3 and Revolution as well. Launch games are launch games. It's possible one can be a totally enlightening, game-changin' experience (ala Mario64, ala Soul Calibur DC), but it'd be extremely hard for any title currently revealed to deliver that (admittedly) unreasonable expectation. So as it is, most launch titles will just be more of the same only without the advantage of increased development time, longer conceptualization stages and familiarity with the hardware (although, heh, PDZ and Kameo and Oblivion probably are exempt from at least the conceptualization point, the prior because of endless platform switching and development, and the latter because Oblivion has been in development for a long time for PC).

 

[fortified_concept]

And just for clarity because certain - ahem - people think this applies to only Xbox360. This goes for PS3 and Revolution as well. Launch games are launch games. It's possible one can be a totally enlightening, game-changin' experience (ala Mario64, ala Soul Calibur DC), but it'd be extremely hard for any title currently revealed to deliver that (admittedly) unreasonable expectation. So as it is, most launch titles will just be more of the same only without the advantage of increased development time, longer conceptualization stages and familiarity with the hardware.

I will certainly postpone PS3's purchase if it comes as early as Spring 06. I don't know about Revolution though. If it's released fall 06 like some rumors say I will definately buy it on launch.

 

[Amir0x]

I will certainly postpone PS3's purchase if it comes as early as Spring 06. I don't know about Revolution though. If it's released fall 06 like some rumors say I will definately buy it on launch.

Well yeah, by the time Revolution comes out it's probably about time to officially hang up the last generation anyway. I doubt many noteworthy releases will come after 2006

 

[Redbeard]

No, it doesn't. Although it's rather humourous that you think that. Gameplay boiled down into three essentials - Physics, Fancy, Unproven AI and BETTER VISUALS! Next-gen is here! Of especially funny note is that nothing you have said is unattainable or is necessarily superior than what has offered in this gen, only better for bullet points on the back of the box.

I can imagine it now.

Oblivion.
- FANCY AI. TOWNSFOLK WALK AROUND AND CLOSE SHOPS AT NIGHT.
- 200+ DUNGEONS, EVERY LAST ONE AS GENERIC AND UNINSPIRED AS THE LAST.
- BIG FUCKING WORLD.

(Note: I'm not implying Oblivion will be bad, but just that what you feel deems a "fundamental improvement that actually improves the quality of a game dramatically" is horrible.)

:lol

I guess Halo's physics, visuals, and "fancy AI" had no effect on it's quality over games from the previous gen.

Half-Life 2? Just HL with some new-fangled physics. No improvement really.

:lol :lol

If you can't see how these are true improvements there's no point in even trying to argue it anymore.

 

[Razoric]

Amirox: PSOne is overrated, Metal Gear Solid could've been done well on SNES FX chip. :lol

 

[Amir0x]

:lol

I guess Halo's physics, visuals, and "fancy AI" had no effect on it's quality over games from the previous gen.

Half-Life 2? Just HL with some new-fangled physics. No improvement really.

:lol :lol

If you can't see how these are true improvements there's no point in even trying to argue it anymore.

...

Wow, thanks for proving my point.

PSOne is overrated, Metal Gear Solid could've been done well on SNES FX chip.

I find it interesting that most people don't recognize that the leap from 2D to 3D is a bit more dramatic than the leap from 3D to 3D HD.

Of course, I wouldn't expect you to recognize that Metal Gear Solid literally could not have been made on SNES (even with toned down 3D visuals), since you're acting on emotion.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

:lol

I guess Halo's physics, visuals, and "fancy AI" had no effect on it's quality over games from the previous gen.

Half-Life 2? Just HL with some new-fangled physics. No improvement really.

:lol :lol

If you can't see how these are true improvements there's no point in even trying to argue it anymore.

They are improvements in and of themselves, but they won't save a shitty game...only make it a bit better. They are great improvements to an already great game though...think about it, Azuric with fancy physics is still Azuric. That said, the improvements won't be as dramatic since I've seen great examples of the above this gen (Halo for AI, Mercenaries for physics, etc.). The refinements and overall greater implementation of these features will be great for next-gen. I just don't expect them to be all that impactful with first gen titles (for any next-gen system). They are going to seem like prettied up, souped up current gen titles for a little while. Eventually next-gen games will have an identity of their own, where they'll really show a progression of game design (probably in late 2006/2007). It was like that this gen, early PS2 was lacklustre. I didn't really care about current gen systems till DMC, GTA, Halo, etc. Those were standout titles that really pushed for something different over the N64/PSX gen.

I'm not saying that all the X360 titles will be prettied up current gen games, but I expect the majority of them to be. Hopefully there'll be one or two titles at launch that really shows a large leap in game design over current gen.

 

[sonycowboy]

:lol

I guess Halo's physics, visuals, and "fancy AI" had no effect on it's quality over games from the previous gen.

Half-Life 2? Just HL with some new-fangled physics. No improvement really.

:lol :lol

If you can't see how these are true improvements there's no point in even trying to argue it anymore.

Half-Life 2 was BUILT AROUND PHYSICS. That was it's major design decision. I hope you're not thinking that the 360 games will be comparable in that area. It's not about the hardware per se in terms of being able to do the physics calculation to this point. ALL games could have done better, but it simply wasn't a really high priority. Graphics are what put butts in the seats and always will be. Thus, it's what developers will focus on first.

I'm not saying that any 360 launch games won't have incredible physics, but you've got to wonder if the first generation will actually focus on this or not, with the tight development schedule. And beyond that, if they will actually try to integrate physics into the gameplay itself, like Half-Life 2 did.

But, I agree that downplaying the 360 launch is crazy. There are going to be a number of very impressive games and even if they are just "a new coat of paint", why not get the better looking game that plays just as well as it's current generation contemporaries (Madden 360 vs Madden 2006, Ghost Recon 3 vs whatever Xbox shooter there might be, Need for Speed: MW 360 vs the current gen stuff).

If you're going to to get those games, it's a no brainer to get the 360 version if you have any inclination to get the 360. (Except for Madden, which does release 3 months earlier on current gen systems). Sure, they aren't reasons to get the 360 themselves, but the systems purchase shouldn't hinge on what games will be available day 1. I'll buy it for $299 and play if for ~5 years. That seems like a good investment to me. Sure, I could wait, but it'll probably be the same price in 6 months and I could be playing some pretty good games during that time.

 

[Amir0x]

but the systems purchase shouldn't hinge on what games will be available day 1.

that's the whole point, if I can play and enjoy equal and often superior experiences on current-gen platforms, why do the early jump to next-gen systems? That's what we're discussing here. Save yourself 299 dollars, buy some more awesome current-gen games, and buy the next-gen systems after a 50 dollar price drop all around.

 

[sonycowboy]

that's the whole point, if I can play and enjoy equal and often superior experiences on current-gen platforms, why do the early jump to next-gen systems? That's what we're discussing here. Save yourself 299 dollars, buy some more awesome current-gen games, and buy the next-gen systems after a 50 dollar price drop all around.

Well, that is the crux of your argument, but it is a subjective determination. Again, I think you're significantly shortselling the 360 if you don't think that there are going to be games that aren't as good or better than current generation games. I don't know that there will be current generation games that can compete with PGR3, PD:Z, Ghost Recon 3, & Madden 2006 in comparable genres.

It seems like you're trying to convince people to wait on the 360, but I can tell you that it doesn't matter. EVERY SINGLE 360 HW unit is going to sell out this year. GUARANTEED. The question is for those that get it, will you still buy current gen games many of which are going to be very, very good.

 

[thorns]

Let's look at some of xbox 360 launch-windows games that we know about:

PGR 3: Modelled interior for all the cars, online spectator mode, 16 players online racing, advanced sound engine, and if true the ability to create your own tracks from any of the cities(rumored feature).

Test Drive 360: Fully modelled island of 1000 miles of track with massively multiplayer elements, you can drive around the island with no loading times looking for races

GR 3: Seamless single player, plus whatever extra multiplayer stuff ubi has cooked (you know they'll be there and they've always been cutting edge with that stuff).

Call of Duty 2: Huge maps with lots and lots of chaos going on around at the same time.

Dead rising: In the order of 1000 characters on the screen at the same time.

PD0: 50 players online + lots of other stuff everyone knows about such as online anti-co op

Oblivion: Huge world, lots of living breathing characters with their own agenda etc.

None of this stuff was possible on xbox/ps2, even with poor graphics.

None of these are just a case of prettier graphics. Most are bringing a lot of new stuff to the table. Ironically Gears of War is one of the titles that doesn't seem to be innovating much (looking at it's gameplay video) but it's the only title people see as "truly next-gen" and are going apeshit over.

 

[Bebpo]

Sure, they aren't reasons to get the 360 themselves, but the systems purchase shouldn't hinge on what games will be available day 1. I'll buy it for $299 and play if for ~5 years. That seems like a good investment to me. Sure, I could wait, but it'll probably be the same price in 6 months and I could be playing some pretty good games during that time.

To add to what Amorix is saying, I think you're right about this point. But I also think that there are a lot of gamers out there who are pre-job kids, and people with low-paying jobs and high rents, and just people who don't have much money. Most of the people on this forum represent at least middle-class income, so getting a X360 + all the top-tier current gen games in the fall is only a matter of budgeting things here and there to scrape up an extra few hundred dollars. But to what is probably the majority of the public, $400 is all they can spend on games this entire fall/winter. Then it comes down to "X360+1 game" or "8 top quality AAA games for the current generation", here is where any new system whether it's X360/PS3 or Revolution loses.

But yea, if the money isn't really a big deal you might as well get the system at launch so you can have fun playing the couple of cool games until the real deals come out in 2006.

 

[Do The Mario]

that's the whole point, if I can play and enjoy equal and often superior experiences on current-gen platforms, why do the early jump to next-gen systems? That's what we're discussing here. Save yourself 299 dollars, buy some more awesome current-gen games, and buy the next-gen systems after a 50 dollar price drop all around.

Doesn't that mean you save $50

and have to then cacth up on your backlog???

 

[Mrbob]

PD0 will deliver

I do also find it funny that the same people who are slamming those who are looking forward to the X360 say the launch lineup will most likely be forgettable. Do you have a crystal ball or time machine to prove this? Good grief the X360 launch is going to have the sequel to one of the most popular and well respected FPS games of all time (Call of Duty 2. The *real* sequel by Infinity Ward). This game alone will keep the X360 launch lineup from being 'forgettable'.

 

[sonycowboy]

Let's look at some of xbox 360 launch-windows games that we know about:

PGR 3: Modelled interior for all the cars, online spectator mode, 16 players online racing, advanced sound engine, and if true the ability to create your own tracks from any of the cities(rumored feature).

Test Drive 360: Fully modelled island of 1000 miles of track with massively multiplayer elements, you can drive around the island with no loading times looking for races

GR 3: Seamless single player, plus whatever extra multiplayer stuff ubi has cooked (you know they'll be there and they've always been cutting edge with that stuff).

Call of Duty 2: Huge maps with lots and lots of chaos going on around at the same time.

Dead rising: In the order of 1000 characters on the screen at the same time.

PD0: 50 players online + lots of other stuff everyone knows about such as online anti-co op

Oblivion: Huge world, lots of lliving breathing characters with their own agenda etc.

None of this stuff was possible on xbox/ps2, even with poor graphics.

None of these are just a case of prettier graphics. Most are bringing a lot of new stuff to the table. Ironically Gears of War is one of the titles that doesn't seem to be innovating much (looking at it's gameplay video) but it's the only title people see as "truly next-gen" and are going apeshit over.

:lol

</PR spouting>

Many games will no doubt be great, but you might be laying it on a bit thick :lol

 

[thorns]

:lol

</PR spouting>

Many games will no doubt be great, but you might be laying it on a bit thick :lol

Might sound a bit more like pr due to my overuse of some buzzwords :lol, but I was just trying to point out the games are brining more than just graphics... People are definately focusing on graphics themselves and then complaining then these games will have nothing new over current gen games except for prettier graphics.

 

[Amir0x]

Well, that is the crux of your argument, but it is a subjective determination. Again, I think you're significantly shortselling the 360 if you don't think that there are going to be games that aren't as good or better than current generation games. I don't know that there will be current generation games that can compete with PGR3, PD:Z, Ghost Recon 3, & Madden 2006 in comparable genres.

Subjective, yes. But based on every launch since the beginning of time, this is true of 99% of the launch software. No doubt Xbox360 (and further, Revolution and PS3) will have fully featured launches that people will find something to enjoy in. My point is, the games are not fundamentally improving games yet because they're launch titles, and end-of-life current gen games will almost certainly be better than most next-gen launch titles (for any system). I've never seen a case when this wasn't true (except in cases when the inability to create these titles actually came up - such as Mario64), so the trend is not remarkably changing here since the leap is much smaller.

It seems like you're trying to convince people to wait on the 360, but I can tell you that it doesn't matter. EVERY SINGLE 360 HW unit is going to sell out this year. GUARANTEED. The question is for those that get it, will you still buy current gen games many of which are going to be very, very good.

Again, this has nothing to do with Xbox360 except that happens to be what this topic is about, and what certain fans keep trying to focus in on in my arguments. The Xbox360 (or PS3 and Rev) could sell five billion consoles in three hours, that doesn't change anything about this argument.

 

[Razoric]

Again, this has nothing to do with Xbox360 except that happens to be what this topic is about, and what certain fans keep trying to focus in on in my arguments. The Xbox360 (or PS3 and Rev) could sell five billion consoles in three hours, that doesn't change anything about this argument.

So you're going on record right now saying you will not buy a next-gen system till fall of 2006? You, someone who posts at a vg forum, gets wrapped up in all the hype, on a daily basis will hold out for over a year? Come on dude, stop the battle.

 

[DarienA]

Let's look at some of xbox 360 launch-windows games that we know about:

PGR 3: Modelled interior for all the cars, online spectator mode, 16 players online racing, advanced sound engine, and if true the ability to create your own tracks from any of the cities(rumored feature).

Test Drive 360: Fully modelled island of 1000 miles of track with massively multiplayer elements, you can drive around the island with no loading times looking for races

I'm going to focus on these two games because they are in my preferred genre.

PGR3 I expect it to be good... but it's interesting that the first feature you noted was basically something than can be classified under "prettier graphics".

Spectator mode... didn't THQ's motorbike series have a spectator mode? No I think this Sept's Moto GP3 is the first one to have it... I thought GP2 had it but I can't remember.... I vaguely remember watching a few races when I rented it but maybe it was a race I hadn't joined or something like that... Yes I do agree that the bump up in # of cars online is directly attributed to the horsepower upgrade the next gen brings us.

As for the Test Drive series? First thing, same comment about the first feature you noted... but that's not really my focus... let's just say that series has ALOT to overcome considering there hasn't been a good game in that series in eons. Sure it looks very nice(if a bit bland IMO), but I'm curious to see how it actually PLAYS. As a clarification on the bland comment I just don't think that there are many "real world" locations that make good "race" locations if you get my drift.

The one thing that makes me hopeful about the new TD is that it looks like they went back to Eden Studios(they've been doing the V-Rally games).

 

[Amir0x]

So you're going on record right now saying you will not buy a next-gen system till fall of 2006? You, someone who posts at a vg forum, gets wrapped up in all the hype, on a daily basis will hold out for over a year? Come on dude, stop the battle.

Absolutely. It will actually be the first time I've abstained from a launch in 10+ years, so small is the leap in launch games. Revolution is the only one I might get at launch since it will probably come out latest, and that's because by the end of 2006 current gen will have truly for the most part run out its welcome with high-profile releases finally drying up for good.

 

[Razoric]

Absolutely. It will actually be the first time I've abstained from a launch in 10+ years, so small is the leap in launch games. Revolution is the only one I might get at launch since it will probably come out latest, and that's because by the end of 2006 current gen will have truly for the most part run out its welcome with high-profile releases finally drying up for good.

I give you till May tops.

 

[Baron Aloha]

I agree with Amir0x 100%. There are way too many great games coming out on current systems that I want to play. This next year looks like it will end up being the PS2's best year ever for software. There's no way that I'm missing out on that stuff. Plus my backlog is freaking huge. There is a ton of great content from the current gen that I haven't even played yet. They could stop releasing current gen games tomorrow and I'd still have enough stuff to play well into next year.

 

[Amir0x]

I give you till May tops.

You may be right. Hell, if I make a decent clip this summer I might even cave in by winter. But as it is, there's no "desire" to make the hop to next-gen yet across the board. Maybe TGS will change this feeling.

 

[thorns]

I'm going to focus on these two games because they are in my preferred genre.

PGR3 I expect it to be good... but it's interesting that the first feature you noted was basically something than can be classified under "prettier graphics".

Spectator mode... didn't THQ's motorbike series have a spectator mode? No I think this Sept's Moto GP3 is the first one to have it... I thought GP2 had it but I can't remember.... I vaguely remember watching a few races when I rented it but maybe it was a race I hadn't joined or something like that... Yes I do agree that the bump up in # of cars online is directly attributed to the horsepower upgrade the next gen brings us.

Well, an example for "pure horsepower" upgrade I would look at the GT series. GT -> GT4 you still have same bad AI, same low number of cars, no damage, no modelled interiors, no online, just prettier cars and tracks and better physics.

pgr2-> pgr3 you are getting a lot of extra stuff, of course it's a lot of horsepower increase, but they're not spending ALL that horsepower in more polys for the cars and tracks, if you understand what I mean..
For me, having fully modelled interiors is not just prettier graphics, it's a new feature. It's something that didn't exist in previous games in the series, not just something prettied up. The spectator mode will be something new if adding spectators will not be limited by the number of people already racing. i.e. if you can have 16 people racing and 16 extra people spectating , that will be new. Since information is so scarce right now, it'll be interesting to see.

They also mentioned vertex-based damage, so no more pre-modelled "damage states" for the cars. That is also something new.